GTA V Gets New Screens, Denuvo DRM for PC Version? - Update

GTA V Gets New Screens, Denuvo DRM for PC Version? - Update

Denuvo DRM Partners 310x

Rockstar is reportedly using Denuvo DRM on the PC version of GTA V.

Update: After publication, a representative from Denuvo reached out to The Escapist, saying that Denuvo will not be used in Grand Theft Auto V. "Denuvo is not in any way involved with any version of GTAV," said the spokesperson. Denuvo did work with Rockstar on GTA IV, however.

We are still waiting for comment from Rockstar, and will update accordingly if any comment from the developer comes in.

Original Story: If the rumors are true [Update: they are not], Grand Theft Auto V on PC will have an additional layer of DRM when it launches on Steam in February 2015.

A user on GTAForums says that GTA V will be loaded up with Denuvo DRM, a third-party anti-piracy system that's used on games and non-gaming software alike. Denuvo can be found on EA's FIFA 15, as well as Lords of the Fallen.

Denuvo would be employed on top of Valve's Steam distribution/DRM platform, and the software is considered unhackable for the time being. There have been no confirmed cases of hackers bypassing Denuvo on FIFA 15 and Lords of the Fallen, hence the reputation.

Along with DRM generally drawing the ire of PC gamers everywhere, Denuvo could also be behind performance issues some Steam users are experiencing with Lords of the Fallen.

The Denuvo website is currently down (we're not sure if it's coincidence or not), but the firm does appear to list Rockstar Games, Take-Two Interactive, and EA as partners. Other gaming partners listed are WB and Disney, while non-gaming software partners include Amazon, Ford, PBS, Oxford University Press, and Pearson.

We've reached out to Rockstar Games PR for comment, and confirmation of the DRM's usage.

While we wait for official word (or while you curse the elder gods for seeing DRM mentioned in a video game news post), see above for the latest crop of GTA V screenshots. These are all 1080p, and are "next-gen," meaning they were captured on the Xbox One, PlayStation 4, or PC.

Sources: GTA Forums

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Thanks, Rockstar. Was starting to worry that I might overspend this year during the later months, but this just shaved 50 bucks off of that end total!

Because SecuRom worked so well, so were just gonna get more from the same idiots that built that piece of crap!

Mmmmm, yes, because one layer of DRM is NEVER ENOUGH!!!!

Let's not have another Windows Live type thing where you still have to log on even after the service shut down and DLCs are impossible to buy.

How does this particular DRM work? As in, how does it intrude upon the player. Anyone with experience from playing the games already using this?

I would definitely like to know how invasive it is. If it requires that I create a profile for that third-party software or is an Always-Online thing, then I'm gonna have a problem with that. If it just so happens to be a background check performed primarily when using multiplayer modes, then it's not that much of a concern so long as it's not creating any in-game problems.

POST-UPDATE EDIT: Well, glad to see that things are (if you'll excuse the phrase) full Steam ahead with no unnecessary speed bumps. I'm excited as ever for the PC release.

I don't mind silent DRM in the background, but the moment it starts asking for additional logins, or causing performance issues, I get angry. This had better not cause performance issues.

P.S. Thanks

So this is three levels of drm? I assume we will have to log in to some shitty rockstar account as well to play or have they given up on that these days?

NoX 9:
How does this particular DRM work? As in, how does it intrude upon the player. Anyone with experience from playing the games already using this?

I play Fifa 15 (only single player if that makes a difference) and i'm not going to lie - I didn't even know this drm was part of it since I have never even been made aware of it whilst in game. However that doesn't mean it will work as smoothly for GTAV considering the history they have had in the past with drm.

From what I know it isnt that invasive, like no seperate login and shit like that, if you bought the game there doesnt seem to be any new step to take or anything.

I am worried however about modding, it is obvious that the online will be locked tight but the singleplayer would be cool to be moddable, and after this entire "We have put first person perspective and its great" its kind of hard to believe that they didnt saw the modding in GTA IV as a good thing.

Oh well, I was going to buy it but now... Screw DRM forever.

Because steam is not intrusive to my experience as it is. Thanks for saving me 20 in the sale next summer though Rockstar.

NoX 9:
How does this particular DRM work? As in, how does it intrude upon the player. Anyone with experience from playing the games already using this?

Well I've been playing Lords of the Fallen and I wasn't even aware that Denuvo was even there. In fact I hadn't even heard of Denuvo or know that Lords of the Fallen had DRM before I read this article.

SerBrittanicus:
I play Fifa 15 (only single player if that makes a difference) and i'm not going to lie - I didn't even know this drm was part of it since I have never even been made aware of it whilst in game. However that doesn't mean it will work as smoothly for GTAV considering the history they have had in the past with drm.

[quote="Kungfu_Teddybear" post="7.864664.21590273"Well I've been playing Lords of the Fallen and I wasn't even aware that Denuvo was even there. In fact I hadn't even heard of Denuvo or know that Lords of the Fallen had DRM before I read this article.[/quote]

Well that at least is a relief. I'm not worried about DRM as long as it doesn't intrude upon the experience. I don't need any more accounts or aditional launchers thank you, one is enough and two is plenty... I was going to check the reviews to see if the port is good before buying it anyway, so I guess I'll pay atention to if/how the DRM affects the game.

A rep from Denuvo reached out to us after this post went live, and we have updated the story.
-Devin Connors

It's a good thing that they won't be using this piece of shit. It will be cracked. It's only a matter of time. SecuROM and Uplay and whatever took a long time to crack too, but hackers managed to do it eventually. However, it took a lot longer for the developers and publishers to realize that they're still hurting their customers.

This brilliant piece of software is from the same people who created SecuROM. And a lot of people seem to be having issues with Lords of The Fallen. There's no evidence that it's DRM related, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were. And by some accounts, the problems extend further than the game itself. System freezing, OS crashing, BIOS changes even. And how can I be sure that this DRM won't do something similar to what SecuROM did to my OS back in the day? Just the fact that it's from the same people is enough for me to stay away from everything that's using it. If I can't prove that it's DRM related even if it is DRM related, then I can't complain to anyone and demand a refund. I would just have to accept that something damaged my system. I'd rather avoid the risk of that happening.

Isn't it great how an inflammatory forum post by some random dude on an internet forum can create 'news' stories these days?

Covarr:
I don't mind silent DRM in the background, but the moment it starts asking for additional logins, or causing performance issues, I get angry. This had better not cause performance issues.

P.S. Thanks

SecuROM was silent and in the background, unfortunately it silently installed a rootkit in the background of your OS and left hundreds of thousands of gamers' machines vulnerable to malware infection they could do nothing about. It was also so silent and backgroundish that you couldn't uninstall the fucking thing without special tools.

DRM is a bloody menace. It's ineffective and always will be, because unless DRM companies are given access to top-secret classified US military gear/research, they're never going to be working with anything that the crackers don't have, and making cracking the DRM more challenging is hardly a deterrent to a group of people who essentially do what they do because they enjoy the challenge of beating your system and being the first to do so. At the same time as being pointless, DRM frequently comes bundled with performance issues, security vulnerabilities, or needless publisher-specific bloatware "platforms", all of which only end up affecting legitimate customers who purchase the game, since the pirated copies are free of all the DRM-related bollocks.

The worst part is people in the industry with a tech background know that it doesn't work, but the "ermahgerd Blackbeard McDownloader and his dastardly crew of pie-rats are going to END THE INDUSTRY! Woe!" doomsaying rhetoric the industry engaged in when piracy first became "a thing" has backed them into a corner, because while a lot of gamers and pirates dismissed their insincere histrionics as just that, the gaming-/tech-illiterate stock traders and background-in-another-industry publisher executives swallowed it whole and now devs CAN'T back away from DRM because the money-men won't allow it.

As for "unhackable"; eeehhhm, you didn't look very hard. Forum rules etc, but yeah, Fifa 15 is floating around out there.

Oh, good. It's not on GTA V. I'm not even interested in GTA and I was frothing with rage that another big game was going to be on Steam with some tacked on bloatware, because they had to appease the paranoid investors.

Even if the complaints are for naught, let the publishers hear the hatred of extra levels of DRM as a warning against it. (And make sure Ubisoft gets the brunt of the blows, too.)

Well, a confirmation from the guys who make the DRM is pretty soothing.

Still, knowing Rockstar on PC they probably have something worse to drop on us.

Nimcha:
Isn't it great how an inflammatory forum post by some random dude on an internet forum can create 'news' stories these days?

A number of factors led to this making the rounds online...
-The Rockstar logo appearing on the Denuvo website.
-Rockstar being three months away from the GTA V PC release.
-Denuvo being used in two very recent, high-profile PC game releases.

And a fourth factor learned after publication -- Denuvo product(s) being used in GTA IV -- establishes a past relationship.

I went to deliberate lengths to frame this as a rumor, like posing a question in the headline, and refraining from any strong/definitive wording in the post itself.

It's also a timely topic, given recent DRM-related news like Ubisoft removing several upcoming games from Steam in the UK.

I do agree that some other sites framed this rumor with ill-informed "this is fact, this is happening" context, however.

-Devin Connors

Devin Connors:

Nimcha:
Isn't it great how an inflammatory forum post by some random dude on an internet forum can create 'news' stories these days?

A number of factors led to this making the rounds online...
-The Rockstar logo appearing on the Denuvo website.
-Rockstar being three months away from the GTA V PC release.
-Denuvo being used in two very recent, high-profile PC game releases.

And a fourth factor learned after publication -- Denuvo product(s) being used in GTA IV -- establishes a past relationship.

I went to deliberate lengths to frame this as a rumor, like posing a question in the headline, and refraining from any strong/definitive wording in the post itself.

It's also a timely topic, given recent DRM-related news like Ubisoft removing several upcoming games from Steam in the UK.

I do agree that some other sites framed this rumor with ill-informed "this is fact, this is happening" context, however.

-Devin Connors

Not a jibe at you personally, but I do think it's the media's job to actually research something they report on. And if it's not reputable, to not report it.

But maybe that's just me.

NoX 9:

SerBrittanicus:
I play Fifa 15 (only single player if that makes a difference) and i'm not going to lie - I didn't even know this drm was part of it since I have never even been made aware of it whilst in game. However that doesn't mean it will work as smoothly for GTAV considering the history they have had in the past with drm.

Kungfu_Teddybear:
Well I've been playing Lords of the Fallen and I wasn't even aware that Denuvo was even there. In fact I hadn't even heard of Denuvo or know that Lords of the Fallen had DRM before I read this article.

Well that at least is a relief. I'm not worried about DRM as long as it doesn't intrude upon the experience. I don't need any more accounts or aditional launchers thank you, one is enough and two is plenty... I was going to check the reviews to see if the port is good before buying it anyway, so I guess I'll pay atention to if/how the DRM affects the game.

well, from what I know, it's the Denuvo DRM that's causing all, or at least most of lrods of the fallen's performance issues
sure, neither fifa nor lords of the fallen have been cracked yet, but is it worth it =P

I own a Steam copy of Lords of the Fallen, one of the games where this new DRM is allegedly in place. I too have had stability issues and game crashes. Some where what i believe memory leaks. The game has some major isses still, but there is no reason to believe that they were caused by DRM.

The DRM seems to affect CPU load, as the developers of the game themselves have admited, however to a very small degree. 1-5% of the games total load was their approximation. For now lets go with these numbers.

The LotF DRM does not require additional logins or accounts. It is very non intrusive. Neither Comodo nor Avora Antivir have reported any suspicious activity to me, so for now, I have no reason to be alarmed.

Hear me out here: I hate DRM as much as the next guy. But LotF is a new property and the fact that the game has not yet been hacked is a major contributor to the financial success this game has enjoyed despite its issues. I like the game. It has some very strong points and I'd like to see a sequel.
I am willing to respect the publishers choice of DRM if they work hard on fixing the issues in due time or are even willing to disable the DRM in the future, when the majority of sales are done and piracy becomes a quasi non issue.
But that requires some major common sense and I've not the best experience with publishers in this regard. But hope dies last and the star of CDPR still shines on.

Devin Connors:
And a fourth factor learned after publication -- Denuvo product(s) being used in GTA IV -- establishes a past relationship.

Really? I knew it had SecuROM, Games for Windows LIVE, and Rockstar Social Club (although I think they patched that one to be optional because they couldn't keep it reliably available), but I've never even heard of Denuvo before. People are saying they made SecuROM, but Wikipedia says it was developed by Sony.

teh_Canape:

well, from what I know, it's the Denuvo DRM that's causing all, or at least most of lrods of the fallen's performance issues
sure, neither fifa nor lords of the fallen have been cracked yet, but is it worth it =P

No, it's not worth it. Not for the consumer anyway. If this stuff will cause problems for the end user it shouldn't be used at all. They WILL use it anyway of course, so we can only hope they will work out the kinks by then. I really want this game, hope they don't screw it up.

Rakschas:
I own a Steam copy of Lords of the Fallen, one of the games where this new DRM is allegedly in place. I too have had stability issues and game crashes. Some where what i believe memory leaks. The game has some major isses still, but there is no reason to believe that they were caused by DRM.

The DRM seems to affect CPU load, as the developers of the game themselves have admited, however to a very small degree. 1-5% of the games total load was their approximation. For now lets go with these numbers.

The LotF DRM does not require additional logins or accounts. It is very non intrusive. Neither Comodo nor Avora Antivir have reported any suspicious activity to me, so for now, I have no reason to be alarmed.

Hear me out here: I hate DRM as much as the next guy. But LotF is a new property and the fact that the game has not yet been hacked is a major contributor to the financial success this game has enjoyed despite its issues. I like the game. It has some very strong points and I'd like to see a sequel.
I am willing to respect the publishers choice of DRM if they work hard on fixing the issues in due time or are even willing to disable the DRM in the future, when the majority of sales are done and piracy becomes a quasi non issue.
But that requires some major common sense and I've not the best experience with publishers in this regard. But hope dies last and the star of CDPR still shines on.

Again, people claiming this brand of DRM is uncracked aren't looking very hard, Lords of the Fallen is also floating around out there. Fifa and LotF took a week or so after release for the crackers to break into because it's fairly new, not because it's uniquely secure, now it's been broken open twice it will be no more difficult to get through in future than any other stuff - uPlay caused the crackers issues for a couple of weeks when it first came out as well, but once they figured it out that was that, and now uPlay games don't take any longer to arrive on dodgy sites than any other games.

And nobody's antivirus or firewall reported any suspicious activity when SecuROM was burrowed into people's rigs either, because the vulnerabilities it was opening up were so serious malware could bypass detection completely and just gain full root-access to your OS. This kind of DRM cannot be treated as safe by the end user, because if they fully inform you of what it's doing to your machine when installed that just makes it easier for the crackers to figure out how to circumvent it and so, given modern EULA's essentially say "we can do whatever we want, deal with it", there's always going to be a reasonable chance that DRM is fucking you over.

Ark of the Covetor:
Again, people claiming this brand of DRM is uncracked aren't looking very hard, Lords of the Fallen is also floating around out there.

This isn't hard to check, you know? Just go to any torrent site and search for these games. Yes, they float around out there, but they remain uncracked. The fact that game files are all over the internet is of no consequence to these companies. What's important is that anyone who wants to play the game has to actually pay for it.

You know, if it weren't for the rumors of performance loss and screwing with system files, and the reputation these people have for unleashing SecuROM on my PC a few years back, I'd be totally behind this idea. I don't care if it stops pirates or not, I care if it stops online hackers. And their "anti-tamper" technology sounds like it could do that quite effectively. A kind of small silver lining to an otherwise irredeemable piece of software.

Maybe there is a cracked version of LotF on some Members Only closed scene board, I can obviously not say there isnt. But it isnt on tpb and thats a major success of this drm. This game already sold more than 700k copies and is already profitable. Thats good news for the publisher.

Im going to repeat myself. I want the drm to go too, but the success it enjoys for now is hard to argue with.
Also what the hell is with you people who argue "you may believe it doesnt do x or y but it does x or y and you just cant tell it does because #buzzwordcloud". Where is the evidence in this particular case?
With all that conjecture, speculation and hyperbole floating around one might attribute your opionons on the matter to agenda based anti DRM activism and not actual tech experience or even noble consumer advocacy.

Adam Jensen:

Ark of the Covetor:
Again, people claiming this brand of DRM is uncracked aren't looking very hard, Lords of the Fallen is also floating around out there.

This isn't hard to check, you know? Just go to any torrent site and search for these games. Yes, they float around out there, but they remain uncracked. The fact that game files are all over the internet is of no consequence to these companies. What's important is that anyone who wants to play the game has to actually pay for it.

You're right, it's not hard to check. You get I can't say more than that because of the forum rules yes? My eye it is winking, my elbow it is nudging etc.

You know, if it weren't for the rumors of performance loss and screwing with system files, and the reputation these people have for unleashing SecuROM on my PC a few years back, I'd be totally behind this idea. I don't care if it stops pirates or not, I care if it stops online hackers. And their "anti-tamper" technology sounds like it could do that quite effectively. A kind of small silver lining to an otherwise irredeemable piece of software.

But that's the point, it won't, and it never will. Every DRM has been cracked, every anti-cheat software has been cracked, no matter how amazeballs the people making it claimed it was, and every multiplayer game with even a modest following is going to end up with hacks available, because some people have time on their hands/enjoy breaking code for the fun of it and others are sad wee gimps that would rather have a program tick some arbitrary numbers up for them than actually achieve things themselves or work to improve their game. Sure, devs should make it as annoying as possible for hackers, but the best way to do that isn't to package your game with intrusive, potentially compromising for the end user software which the hackers will get around regardless, it's to actually support your game after release day beyond farting out a couple of zero-effort map-packs for 20 each - devs need to DL the hacks themselves, figure out how they hook into the game, and change that code, and keep doing that over and over again - it's boring, endless, soul-sucking work but if you do it frequently enough it's the only thing that stands a chance of driving away your everyday stat-padding hackers who will get sick of constantly having to download updated versions of their hacks. As for the dedicated Goon/Dental/Something Awful/Chantard griefer types? Learn to ignore them, because they will endure any amount of annoyance or inconvenience and use any tool available to ruin other people's fun, and the only thing you or any devs can do to get rid of them is starve them of attention/reaction.

Don't hate multiplayer hack users, learn to pity them, because the corporate shitehawks who push intrusive, always-online, registry-altering, vulnerability-creating forms of DRM which just happen to erode consumer rights are perfectly willing to manipulate people's emotional reactions to get them to accept this kind of crap - just remember all that "anti-piracy" crap hasn't done anything to prevent or even slow down the growth of file sharing, but it has led to unjustifiable limitations on fair use and other "enhancements" to copyright law which have all favoured corporate power over consumer protection; imagine how much further they'd be able to go if we let them raise multiplayer hacking to the same kind of boogeyman-status piracy has been allowed to reach.

Ark of the Covetor:
You're right, it's not hard to check. You get I can't say more than that because of the forum rules yes? My eye it is winking, my elbow it is nudging etc.

The only thing I was able to find was the fact that FIFA 14 used some version of Denuvo and it was hacked after 40+ days. Impressive. And after that they implemented even more protection to Denuvo. But I still can't find any whispers that FIFA 15 and LoTF have been successfully cracked. And I'm sure that when it happens, the news of that will spread fast across all the gaming websites without me having to venture deep into the web. I say when it happens, because I know it's only a matter of time.

Random thoughts:
I wonder though, how are gamers going to react if it turns out that LoTF does run better cracked? I feel lucky for not giving a shit about sports games and really disliking Dark Souls type of gameplay. I would feel cheated if someone sold me a game without telling me what kind of DRM comes with it. I'm not sure I completely trust these fellows when they say they aren't involved with GTA V. That's how little trust I have in the gaming industry these days. But it's not like I would pre-order GTA V anyway, after GTA IV fiasco. And if I do buy it, I'll first try to find a version that doesn't demand Steam, because of this recent San Andreas revelation.

So the update says its not going to be used on GTA5. good news, i may buy it after all.

As far as Denuvo not being cracked. well, on another board my response was "not cracked my ass [points to a cracked torrent]". obviuosly, i cant do that here.

heres something i found elsewhere that may explain why people with this DRM is having stability issues:

NukeClears:

Well fuck, you want to know why this sucks?

This DRM affects your games performance by a fairly significant margin because

**source code**

writeln('Test OK');

**After compilation**

mov eax, [$ 004092ec]
mov edx, $00408db4
call @WriteOLString
call @WriteLn
call @_IOTest

**After the code transformation (partial):**

db 3
add al, $30
xlat
call +$000025b2
jmp +$00000eec
call +$00000941
or al, $4a
scasd
call -$304ffbe9
rol eax, $14
mov edi, [ebx]
jmp +$00001738
mov ebx, eax
shr ebx, $03
push ebx
jmp +$0001b5e
call -$000001eb
jmp +$00003203
jmp +$00005df8
call +$00000910
adc dh, ah
fmul st(7)
adc [eax], al
les eax, [ecx+$0118bfc0]
stosb

What dose it do to your system?

1. Severely hinders performance due to additional CPU instruction cycles overhead from machine-level obfuscation.

2. Significantly increases the size and affects the speed of a program.

I want to see someone make DRM that makes the game delete the Operating System files if you try to quit their product. That'd be hilarious. And sad. And infuriating.

JoshuaMadoc:
I want to see someone make DRM that makes the game delete the Operating System files if you try to quit their product. That'd be hilarious. And sad. And infuriating.

well, there was one DRM, FADE I think, could be wrong.

basically let you play a cracked version of the game for a while and then severely started fucking up the game until it was completely unplayable.

input lag, low resolution, eventually leading to crashes.

but a DRM that affects an OS so far as to deleting it? that's a publishers worst nightmare. Any game that had that would not have a sequel, or at the very least would drop that DRM for the sequel [and a massive apology/lawsuit]

JoshuaMadoc:
I want to see someone make DRM that makes the game delete the Operating System files if you try to quit their product. That'd be hilarious. And sad. And infuriating.

If you install the European PC version of Worms 4: Mayhem the StarForce DRM will delete or break your Master Boot Record. After you install the game you have to reboot your computer and it just goes black.

It's relatively harmless since your data is still fine and fixing the MBR isn't hard (if you know that's the problem), but for the average Joe it's a broken computer with a black screen.

 

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