France Accuses Scientologists of Fraud

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT
 

Good work, you Gauls!

Still don't like the French, but i have a little more respect for them now.

Omnidum:
I'm going to go ahead and say "orly?" about that Scientology is a fraud. It's a cult for the rich and the popular, and it has nothing to do with science...

It's also and almost nothing more than a form of secret society made public.

Ah this is good. This should happen in all the other countries where Scientology is around. Watch the BBC panorama thing on youtube, its really good and shocking.

Here is the first part: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dv4u3fVQrU

I'm gutted that so many people see Scientology as something to be ridiculed or despised. If any organisation violates the law then they should definitely be held accountable, sure. But aside from the organisations (which are made up of some truly phenomenal individuals...and yes, a few fanatics thrown in for good measure) the subject itself, the core philosophy and practice of Scientology is really quite simple and, when applied, extremely beneficial. In a nutshell:

1) You are a spirit, a soul. You do not ~have~ a soul, you ~are~ the soul; that uses a body & mind on this planet for the pleasure of experience, and the experience of pleasure. (Like using a control pad to play PS3... the pad being the "body", the buttons being the "mind").

2) You have lived before and you will live again, maybe somewhere other than Earth. (Who says reincarnation doesn't occur elsewhere?)

3) Through a combination of self-help and counselling Scientology-style, one can become a kinder, more confident, competent and empowered individual, and ultimately more spiritually aware.

And that's pretty much it. Weird sh*t, I'm sure you'll agree...

All the best,
Mike

ElephantGuts:
This actually does make me respect the French a lot more. I'm actually not surprised that they're the ones who managed to look past the freedom of speech/religion that any modern country is required to allow and realize that Scientology is still pretty screwed up. I'm not saying they should make up charges just to get rid of them, but if they did do something wrong then for God's sake prosecute them. Don't be afraid of being seen as opressive or something just because they're a poor minority group. Get something done.

I... I don't know about this part. It seems very ironic. Other than that, I agree totally. If religion crosses over into law, then it is the goverment's duty to stop whatever is happening.

Abedeus:

I'm not xenophobic. I'm just good at History and how France did shit when Nazis attacked Poland, instead of crushing them, they waited.. and got pwned.

Wow, how succinct! You truly must be Good at History...

Arbre:
How to say it in simpler words... they ALL waited. That laissez-faire. Each crisis is a "formidable opportunity" (Condoleza Rice TM) to gross massive amounts of money and go take control of foreign resources and plant military bases in crushed countries.

Hmm, an excellent counterpoint. And maybe, just maybe America's involvement in WWII wasn't a delayed reaction to the invasion of Poland. What history are you good at, Abedeus? It doesn't seem to be the 20th century.

Scientia:
I'm gutted that so many people see Scientology as something to be ridiculed or despised. If any organisation violates the law then they should definitely be held accountable, sure. But aside from the organisations (which are made up of some truly phenomenal individuals...and yes, a few fanatics thrown in for good measure) the subject itself, the core philosophy and practice of Scientology is really quite simple and, when applied, extremely beneficial. In a nutshell:

1) You are a spirit, a soul. You do not ~have~ a soul, you ~are~ the soul; that uses a body & mind on this planet for the pleasure of experience, and the experience of pleasure. (Like using a control pad to play PS3... the pad being the "body", the buttons being the "mind").

2) You have lived before and you will live again, maybe somewhere other than Earth. (Who says reincarnation doesn't occur elsewhere?)

3) Through a combination of self-help and counselling Scientology-style, one can become a kinder, more confident, competent and empowered individual, and ultimately more spiritually aware.

And that's pretty much it. Weird sh*t, I'm sure you'll agree...

All the best,
Mike

Thanks "Mike", thanks for signing up just to tell us that. We look forward to hearing from you again next time a searchable discussion involving Scientology takes place anywhere on the internet.

As tempting as it is to laugh at the French, there are times when they are the only ones with the balls to do the right thing.

Here's one of them.

Heh. I've never been overwhelmingly hateful toward scientology OR the French (Point of fact I supported the French rather strongly when everyone in my own country went fuckshit nuts and started calling things names like "Liberty toast"), but if all this really is due in any way to the work of Anonymous, then god damnit I have to hate Anonymous less. That's going to rankle for awhile. But regardless of the involvement of an internet quasi-group the sheer amount of discussion this thing has provoked is glorious.

That interview with L. Ron Hubbard Junior seems leery to me, but then that's because all of Black magic is utter bullshit, and any reference to it makes me suspicious. It was invented by really stupid peasants and priests in the dark ages who thought Christianity granted magical powers, and that they could pervert these magical powers by reversing some Scripture and prayers. And doing perverted things. Literally, that's the ENTIRE founding.

On the one hand, here in the US we have some very tolerable and even outright NICE people who are scientologists (Tom Cruise does not spring to mind, but John Travolta does). So I'll stand by what other people have said - People are entitled to their own (PEACEFUL) faiths. But when a religion begins impinging on the area of law, it is the government's responsibility to intervene.

Also

Hyoscine:

Thanks "Mike", thanks for signing up just to tell us that. We look forward to hearing from you again next time a searchable discussion involving Scientology takes place anywhere on the internet.

Truer words may have been spoken, but I bet not too often.

Hyoscine:

Abedeus:

I'm not xenophobic. I'm just good at History and how France did shit when Nazis attacked Poland, instead of crushing them, they waited.. and got pwned.

Wow, how succinct! You truly must be Good at History...

Arbre:
How to say it in simpler words... they ALL waited. That laissez-faire. Each crisis is a "formidable opportunity" (Condoleza Rice TM) to gross massive amounts of money and go take control of foreign resources and plant military bases in crushed countries.

Hmm, an excellent counterpoint. And maybe, just maybe America's involvement in WWII wasn't a delayed reaction to the invasion of Poland. What history are you good at, Abedeus? It doesn't seem to be the 20th century.

French is the closest country to Germany (out of our "allies"), and they had the best chance of rushing at Berlin and stopping them. America had it's problems, although they just didn't want to make enemies and thought they could avoid the war.

Defend France all you want, the truth is - people don't like you. Very much.

"- You will be now... French soldiers!
- *dropping rifles* WE SURRENDER!"

Taken from Armed and Dangerous.

Though I surely applaud the French for taking this step. They are not the first country to do this. In Belgium Scientology are currently being prosecuted as a criminal organisation, the effect of this, if/when they are convicted, will be quite a bit more than the french suit. If convicted they will in essence become an illigal organisation in the entire EU and possibly in several other countries depending on treaties and such.

sorry, this is the only english article I could find atm

Hyoscine:

Scientia:
I'm gutted that so many people see Scientology as something to be ridiculed or despised. If any organisation violates the law then they should definitely be held accountable, sure. But aside from the organisations (which are made up of some truly phenomenal individuals...and yes, a few fanatics thrown in for good measure) the subject itself, the core philosophy and practice of Scientology is really quite simple and, when applied, extremely beneficial. In a nutshell:

1) You are a spirit, a soul. You do not ~have~ a soul, you ~are~ the soul; that uses a body & mind on this planet for the pleasure of experience, and the experience of pleasure. (Like using a control pad to play PS3... the pad being the "body", the buttons being the "mind").

2) You have lived before and you will live again, maybe somewhere other than Earth. (Who says reincarnation doesn't occur elsewhere?)

3) Through a combination of self-help and counselling Scientology-style, one can become a kinder, more confident, competent and empowered individual, and ultimately more spiritually aware.

And that's pretty much it. Weird sh*t, I'm sure you'll agree...

All the best,
Mike

Thanks "Mike", thanks for signing up just to tell us that. We look forward to hearing from you again next time a searchable discussion involving Scientology takes place anywhere on the internet.

Yep, I'm sure glad one of our Escapist peers has stepped forward to offer a well-rounded defense of ... oh, first post you say? Probably won't ever post again?

Trolling the internet, fighting tirelessly for L. Ron on message boards and LiveJournals. I wonder how much you have to pay into the Church to snag THAT sweet gig?

Heh, guess the French aren't so bad.

I've been waiting for this!

Clemenstation:

Hyoscine:

Scientia:
I'm gutted that so many people see Scientology as something to be ridiculed or despised. If any organisation violates the law then they should definitely be held accountable, sure. But aside from the organisations (which are made up of some truly phenomenal individuals...and yes, a few fanatics thrown in for good measure) the subject itself, the core philosophy and practice of Scientology is really quite simple and, when applied, extremely beneficial. In a nutshell:

1) You are a spirit, a soul. You do not ~have~ a soul, you ~are~ the soul; that uses a body & mind on this planet for the pleasure of experience, and the experience of pleasure. (Like using a control pad to play PS3... the pad being the "body", the buttons being the "mind").

2) You have lived before and you will live again, maybe somewhere other than Earth. (Who says reincarnation doesn't occur elsewhere?)

3) Through a combination of self-help and counselling Scientology-style, one can become a kinder, more confident, competent and empowered individual, and ultimately more spiritually aware.

And that's pretty much it. Weird sh*t, I'm sure you'll agree...

All the best,
Mike

Thanks "Mike", thanks for signing up just to tell us that. We look forward to hearing from you again next time a searchable discussion involving Scientology takes place anywhere on the internet.

Yep, I'm sure glad one of our Escapist peers has stepped forward to offer a well-rounded defense of ... oh, first post you say? Probably won't ever post again?

Trolling the internet, fighting tirelessly for L. Ron on message boards and LiveJournals. I wonder how much you have to pay into the Church to snag THAT sweet gig?

1,2,3 = crazy

Scientia:
I'm gutted that so many people see Scientology as something to be ridiculed or despised. If any organisation violates the law then they should definitely be held accountable, sure. But aside from the organisations (which are made up of some truly phenomenal individuals...and yes, a few fanatics thrown in for good measure) the subject itself, the core philosophy and practice of Scientology is really quite simple and, when applied, extremely beneficial. In a nutshell:

1) You are a spirit, a soul. You do not ~have~ a soul, you ~are~ the soul; that uses a body & mind on this planet for the pleasure of experience, and the experience of pleasure. (Like using a control pad to play PS3... the pad being the "body", the buttons being the "mind").

2) You have lived before and you will live again, maybe somewhere other than Earth. (Who says reincarnation doesn't occur elsewhere?)

3) Through a combination of self-help and counselling Scientology-style, one can become a kinder, more confident, competent and empowered individual, and ultimately more spiritually aware.

And that's pretty much it. Weird sh*t, I'm sure you'll agree...

All the best,
Mike

I think you forgot one:

4) Scientology is the only "religion" (as far as I know) where you have to pay to find out "the truth" about the tenents that this organization is based on. Seriously, what kind of religion is that? For example, how much of the world do you think would subscribe to Christianity if you had to pay millions of dollars to find out that Jesus was born of a virgin, was later crucified, and then came back from the dead? It's absolutely ridiculous! I'm not religious but to me the whole purpose of a religion is for a group of people to have common beliefs which they then try to apply to living their life. You cannot do this if you do not have a background/history/beliefs to start with. Scientology is nothing more than a brainwashing, money-making pyramid scheme.

Clemenstation:

Hyoscine:

Scientia:
I'm gutted that so many people see Scientology as something to be ridiculed or despised. If any organisation violates the law then they should definitely be held accountable, sure. But aside from the organisations (which are made up of some truly phenomenal individuals...and yes, a few fanatics thrown in for good measure) the subject itself, the core philosophy and practice of Scientology is really quite simple and, when applied, extremely beneficial. In a nutshell:

1) You are a spirit, a soul. You do not ~have~ a soul, you ~are~ the soul; that uses a body & mind on this planet for the pleasure of experience, and the experience of pleasure. (Like using a control pad to play PS3... the pad being the "body", the buttons being the "mind").

2) You have lived before and you will live again, maybe somewhere other than Earth. (Who says reincarnation doesn't occur elsewhere?)

3) Through a combination of self-help and counselling Scientology-style, one can become a kinder, more confident, competent and empowered individual, and ultimately more spiritually aware.

And that's pretty much it. Weird sh*t, I'm sure you'll agree...

All the best,
Mike

Thanks "Mike", thanks for signing up just to tell us that. We look forward to hearing from you again next time a searchable discussion involving Scientology takes place anywhere on the internet.

Yep, I'm sure glad one of our Escapist peers has stepped forward to offer a well-rounded defense of ... oh, first post you say? Probably won't ever post again?

Trolling the internet, fighting tirelessly for L. Ron on message boards and LiveJournals. I wonder how much you have to pay into the Church to snag THAT sweet gig?

I wonder how much did he get for defending the Xenophobes.

Ba-dum-tish.

Robert_Lindblad:
Penthouse Interview With L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
"Scientology and all the other cults are one-dimensional, and we live in a three-dimensional world. Cults are as dangerous as drugs. They commit the highest crime: the rape of the soul." L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
Penthouse, June 1983
For more than twenty years L. Ron Hubbard, Jr., has been a man on the run. He has changed residences, occupations, and even his name in 1972 to Ron DeWolf to escape what he alleges to be the retribution and wrath of his father and his father's organization-- the Church of Scientology. His father, L. Ron Hubbard. Sr., founder and leader of Scientology, has been a figure of controversy and mystery, as has been his organization, for more than a generation. Its detractors have called it the "granddaddy" and the worst of all the religious cults that have sprung up over the last generation. Its advocates-- and there are thousands--swear that the church is the avenue for human perfection and happiness. Millions of words have been written for and against Scientology. Just what is the truth?

Super long post but incredibly informative. Where did you get that?

Robert_Lindblad:
There must be 50 ways to leave your Scientology master
You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don't need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don't need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
and get yourself free

hahaha, I love that song and so true... No matter what you think about the religion you have to agree they definitely are IN LOVE with the religion and themselves.

"Mike", not me. And I wasn't defending xenophobes, I was arguing with you. Anyway, I've just noticed I come across as a bit of a tool during that France/Poland thing. I still think I'm right, obviously, but I could have phrased things a little better. Anyway...

Abedeus:
America had it's problems, although they just didn't want to make enemies and thought they could avoid the war.

That's really what I'm trying to get at; how can that apply to America but not France?

Hyoscine:
"Mike", not me. And I wasn't defending xenophobes, I was arguing with you. Anyway, I've just noticed I come across as a bit of a tool during that France/Poland thing. I still think I'm right, obviously, but I could have phrased things a little better. Anyway...

Abedeus:
America had it's problems, although they just didn't want to make enemies and thought they could avoid the war.

That's really what I'm trying to get at; How can that apply to America but not France?

America wouldn't get so fast to us as the French could. And even then, they would have to sacrifice their own defense.

France was endangered by the Nazis too. But instead of fighting them, they let them grow stronger. I mean, come on, after September 1939 the Germany was heavily weakened military. Attacking them from behind would force them to retreat from Poland, we would've pushed and together we could crush them.

If this happened, I would've probably liked France. I mean, Napoleon did try to help us. It wasn't his fault that Russia was and is almost impossible to be defeated on their own land.

Maybe now other will stand up.

The hesitancy was an error, but it's not the only error made in Europe (nice going, Chamberlain. Way to go, the Swiss.). Also, the French resistance made a super-valuable war effort. I'm really not sure why you're rating countries on past failings, or how you're managing to maintain a pro-American outlook within this framework, (Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee is a nice place to start if you fancy cataloguing American atrocities, though you do seem more concerned with historic failures rather than historic acts of oppression and butchery), but I don't think we're ever going to find a comfortable middle ground here. Let's get back to bashing those crazy Scientologists.

Hyoscine:

Abedeus:

I'm not xenophobic. I'm just good at History and how France did shit when Nazis attacked Poland, instead of crushing them, they waited.. and got pwned.

Wow, how succinct! You truly must be Good at History...

Arbre:
How to say it in simpler words... they ALL waited. That laissez-faire. Each crisis is a "formidable opportunity" (Condoleza Rice TM) to gross massive amounts of money and go take control of foreign resources and plant military bases in crushed countries.

Hmm, an excellent counterpoint. And maybe, just maybe America's involvement in WWII wasn't a delayed reaction to the invasion of Poland. What history are you good at, Abedeus? It doesn't seem to be the 20th century.

Well, here's some material you'll NEVER find in school (just as much as you'll never be really taught anything about critical thinking):

Hitler's Secret Backers

(read the comments as well, for a change, they're quite interesting -no sign of 1 Star naysayers yet)

The short book; Formerly published in 1933 under the name Financial Origins of National Socialism, by a certain Sidney Warburg (BIG name here), considered to be a smith' for James Warburg.
This book was removed from shelves within months, and remained suppressed for 60 years, and reads as a very valuable and extremely rare confession of one of those behind the curtains, those who make it sure that the new century will be one of war, slaughter and poverty, again.

If you have to start with something concise and shocking enough, it is this book. Not perfect, but still a good kicker.

Then, eventually, if your curiosity has been aroused, you'll possibly try to put your hand on more documented material, which will notably reveal just how twisted and some sick fuckheads Roosevelt and Churchill truly were (to the point you'd almost pity Hitler for the crazy little pawn he was, really), among many other things:

The Pathological Pursuit of Profit and Power
Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler
Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time
The Lost Science of Money: The Mythology of Money - The Story of Power
The True Story of the Bilderberg Group
Web of Debt: The Shocking Truth About Our Money System and How We Can Break Free (Revised and Updated)

Plus some other stuff about GMOs, pesticides, pharmaceutics, drug cartels and so on.

Then you'll see the recent events under a completely different light, and see where we're being led, once more.

Or you can buy the next Gears of War or continue paying a fortune to play WoW and remain relatively unaware.

Kevvers:

Erana:
The thing about scientology itself is that, unlike many religions like Christianity and Islam, it assumes that people are bad and stupid by default. People aren't allowed to even see much of their texts until they "understand" the previous piece...
And France has a point. I mean, if they want to have their own beliefs, OK, go ahead. But if you start messing with the law, you're in for it.

I feel I should point out that much of the bible is devoted to the wickedness of man and his sinful nature, in fact the whole Pauline Christian doctrine has it that no one can be saved without Jesus precisely because we are too wicked to abide by the Law, and too stupid to understand God's word. That whole comment you made about not "understanding" the pieces, well that sounds exactly like how they used to conduct the bible studies classes I used to go to.
The church used to conduct the mass in Latin, even though none of the congregation could actually speak it for precisely these reasons. Many Catholics would like a return to the Latin mass! Islam probably holds an even lower respect for humanity next to God.

So my point is that although Scientology is kind've of weird and creepy, its not THAT different to the main religions in my opinion.

Well, it sounded right in my head, but what I was trying to infer that a lot of religions call people bad, and Scientology just happens to assume the wickedness of man as well as treating them like they're idiots. Though you have a point with the Latin mass, though.

Scientia:

3) Through a combination of self-help and counselling Scientology-style, one can become a kinder, more confident, competent and empowered individual, and ultimately more spiritually aware.

The practice of forbidding followers to take medication prescribed to them by doctors is good counseling and self-help?

Anyone who believes this is moronic and naive. And judging by the fact that your name is Scientia and you clearly made that account to reply on this thread leads me to believe you're a Scientologist yourself, and are simply trying to "show us the way to Scientology" or some other nonsense.

Don't kid yourself.

And the shit hits the fan....

This might look awesome but it won't be. This is the start of being able to legalize/illegalize religion. Sooner or later, all the smaller contenders to the religion game will get the same treatment. Perhaps the atheists will get it as well. Talks of making it anit-semitic to critisize religion has already surfaced. I really don't see this ending well.

Abedeus:
French is the closest country to Germany (out of our "allies"), and they had the best chance of rushing at Berlin and stopping them. America had it's problems, although they just didn't want to make enemies and thought they could avoid the war.

Defend France all you want, the truth is - people don't like you. Very much.

"- You will be now... French soldiers!
- *dropping rifles* WE SURRENDER!"

Taken from Armed and Dangerous.

Yes, probably the most intelligent joke in the history of the film industry. image
Smell the culture.

France- you have now gained more respect from me, by demonstrating that you really do have cojones*.

France: The food is excellent, the women beautiful and scientology is about to be wiped off the map...

*For all those who beleive otherwise, I have one word for you: Verdun.

Scientia:
Scientologist defence.
All the best,
Mike

I refer the honorable gentleman to the picture I used to grace this article.

uppitycracker:

Kukul:
What about USA?
When will your goverment make $cientology illegal?
Or are there already too many $cientologists in power to do that?

I think you pretty much nailed it right there

its a church, what do you want us to do about it?

JWAN:

uppitycracker:

Kukul:
What about USA?
When will your goverment make $cientology illegal?
Or are there already too many $cientologists in power to do that?

I think you pretty much nailed it right there

its a church, what do you want us to do about it?

*cough* Stop recognizing it as a church when its more of a cult? Just because an organization wants to call itself a church doesn't make it one. I can't just file myself legally as the Church of Orekoya of Later Daytime Gamers for tax exemption for all the cash I want to swindle others out of.

Orekoya:

JWAN:

uppitycracker:

Kukul:
What about USA?
When will your goverment make $cientology illegal?
Or are there already too many $cientologists in power to do that?

I think you pretty much nailed it right there

its a church, what do you want us to do about it?

*cough* Stop recognizing it as a church when its more of a cult? Just because an organization wants to call itself a church doesn't make it one. I can't just file myself legally as the Church of Orekoya of Later Daytime Gamers for tax exemption for all the cash I want to swindle others out of.

actually, you could

France just went up a few notches in my book...

SecretTacoNinja:
Hahaha... Good on France. And the Anonymous Army.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here