Zack Snyder: The Force Awakens Killed More Civilians Than Man of Steel

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Zack Snyder: The Force Awakens Killed More Civilians Than Man of Steel

Man of Steel Scream

Zack Snyder is defending Man of Steel's body count by stating Star Wars: The Force Awakens went farther than he did.

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is out this week, resurrecting all the old arguments about how Man of Steel was too violent for its own good. According to director Zack Snyder, however, that criticism doesn't make sense - because Star Wars: The Force Awakens has a bigger body count.

"I went, really?" Snyder told the Wall Street Journal. "And I said, well, what about [Star Wars: The Force Awakens]? In Star Wars they destroy five planets with billions of people on them. That's gotta be one of the highest death toll movies in history, the new Star Wars movie, if you just do the math."

Yes, the Man of Steel director is technically correct that The Force Awakens has a higher death toll. But that's never been the problem fans had with the film - it's that Superman himself spent more time fighting Zod than saving the lives of people in Metropolis. The collateral damage from that conflict is a major reason why Batman is so concerned about Superman in the sequel, after all.

In other words: Stay on target, Snyder.

Besides, Star Wars kind of has a history of heroes being unable to stop genocidal maniacs. Leia was completely helpless to stop Alderaan from being destroyed, an act which motivated its heroes to defeat the Empire. But Superman? Outside of Krypton being destroyed, his entire motivation is stopping disasters like that from happening.

Now obviously, Snyder and Warner Bros can produce whatever Superman film they want. And to be completely fair, Batman v Superman might actually produce a thoughtful response to these concerns - or at least be fun to watch. But taking aim at Star Wars probably won't generate the mic drop Snyder was hoping for. Either way, we'll find out how Batman v Superman compares to the original film and The Force Awakens this Friday.

Source: The Wall Street Journal, via Screen Rant

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Yea he doesn't understand the criticism at all. The problem wasn't the death toll but Superman's role in causing that death toll, not even trying to steer Zod away from buildings, casually tossing vehicles into possibly occupied buildings etc.

Meanwhile TFA's civilian death count is solely on the backs of the villains of the movie

totheendofsin:
Meanwhile TFA's civilian death count is solely on the backs of the villains of the movie

Not to mention being the fully inteded result, therefore taking it out of any definition of collateral damage.

gigastar:

totheendofsin:
Meanwhile TFA's civilian death count is solely on the backs of the villains of the movie

Not to mention being the fully inteded result, therefore taking it out of any definition of collateral damage.

That's another good point I had forgotten about

In fact he seems to have missed the point so much I have to wonder if he's intentionally missing the point

totheendofsin:
Yea he doesn't understand the criticism at all. The problem wasn't the death toll but Superman's role in causing that death toll, not even trying to steer Zod away from buildings, casually tossing vehicles into possibly occupied buildings etc.

Yeah, that underscores how badly Snyder doesn't get it. This is probably not the guy you want making the Superfriends origin movies.

Way to deliberately miss the point. It wasn't the casualty count, it was the disregard for the civilians on the behalf of the hero(es). Ever watch Dragonball Z? Every major fight that starts near a settlement Goku tries to bring the fight away from the civilian populace. Superman brings the fight to a populated area twice in Man of Steel. You can't even plausibly say "well he's inexperienced", which a lot of people do, because he turns Metropolis into a fighting ring after he just destroyed his home town by doing the same thing just a few hours prior. Its just a callous disregard for human life. Even a lot of the Dictator of Earth For Life interpretations of Superman, like the recent Injustice, as perverted as their thinking is ("I'll destroy a city to keep the world's population in line and therefore from destroying itself") at least he's considering the civilians even if it is a really screwed up notion of justice. In Man of Steel he just doesn't give a fuck. I haven't seen Dawn of Justice but based on all the media of it I've seen that hasn't changed. IN one short commercial that has been running like crazy he confront Batman, grabs him and then flies him stright through a building, most likely a populated building. Oh, and at the end of Man of Steel Superman destroys a US military satellite. He doesn't do it because he thinks that the military might try to blackmail him into doing their dirty work if they know his identity, he does it because he doesn't want to be held accountable. Superman was never really appointed to a position but he certainly managed to hold himself accountable in the past and he doesn't in Man of Steel.

Bureaucrat Synder you technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Doesn't Bats v Supes v A Spare Weta Asset point out that collateral damage isn't killing scores of civvies? That's what I've heard from a review, and if that's the case clearly it's not just Age Of Ultron's finale which is reacting to MoS's fetishistic carnage, so Snyder's comments seem a bit daft.

And if Snyder can't really get his head around the difference between MoS and TFA relative to this criticism, then--- well, I suppose that kinda explains why his films are the way they are.

You are right Snyder, the Villains of TFA killed more civilians than the Hero of your movie did in collateral damage. Truly that is the strongest of counter-points you can make at this point. This is after all the hero best known for his efforts to save people from harm and whos character is partway defined by his failures and limitations as one man, albeit one super-man, unable to save everything in the world despite his best efforts. The fact your movie about this character killed less civilians through collateral damage and lack of giving a damn during a fight than a military force who built a superweapon to destroy multiple planets is entirely true.

Is it just me, or does this sort of defense really highlight the entire fault wit hthe movie itself and where snyder missed the point?

<<<<<<<<<<<The point<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

=========================Zack Snyder's head==================

totheendofsin:

gigastar:

totheendofsin:
Meanwhile TFA's civilian death count is solely on the backs of the villains of the movie

Not to mention being the fully inteded result, therefore taking it out of any definition of collateral damage.

That's another good point I had forgotten about

In fact he seems to have missed the point so much I have to wonder if he's intentionally missing the point

Not to mention How it Should have Ended for MoS was 100% accurate and they didn't actually need to make anything up for it. God everybody in Man of Steel was an idiot.

I think it's safe to assume Zack Snyder received multiple terrible blows to the head in the years since he directed Watchmen. Maybe it happened when he was making Sucker Punch?

Either that or he's a Marvel/Disney plant who's objective is to destroy WB/DC... but that would be weird as WB/DC have been doing just fine in that regards.

What kind of argument is that? Not only did he complete miss the point but attempts to drag down Star Wars to his level. The bad guys killed innocent people in Star Wars. The problem was Superman was probably killing innocent people as well and he is the good guy. It has nothing to do with how many, it was who was doing the killing. Come on man.Don't just say stuff. Think before you speak.

Uhhh...Snyder...you are aware that in star wars the villians of the film killed billions of people, in Man of Steel, Superman, you know the super nice guy who always desperately tries to save everyone? Kills innocent people by being a dumbass, the death toll is irrelevant, last I checked Rey wasn't the one opening fire on planets...

Yeah, I'm just going to leave this here. Most people have already said what I feel on the subject, but this is my personal contribution.

Its sad that the director has so little insight into the character he is using, and so little understanding of the critique of his work.

That said, the death toll in the newest star wars movie was completely retarded.

That's a nice comparison between apples and oranges Snyder's got going.

Oh well, they any publicity is good publicity, even if it comes from being deliberately obtuse.

Is he still on about this?[1] He's a producer for Bats VS Supes: Justice Dawns, right? Did he ever read a plot summary on why the two heroes would be fighting?

I have a feeling Snyder could someday go all "George Lucas" on his old works and add lines about how any buildings being destroyed where evacuated just in time and any civilian that appeared to be killed would be digitally erased. He is on his way to becoming delusional enough to try it.

[1] He now reminds me of a certain Gearbox CEO that won't admit they made some serious mistakes and flops.

gigastar:

totheendofsin:
Meanwhile TFA's civilian death count is solely on the backs of the villains of the movie

Not to mention being the fully inteded result, therefore taking it out of any definition of collateral damage.

I like this. I really do. XD

Marvel (aka, the superheroes are AWESOME!!! studio): 75 people died in the chitauri assault, 23 people in washington, over a hundred in that other place...The avengers need to be put in check. *dramatic inception BWWWR*

Snyder: Hey, come on, Superman killed a lot less people than the bad guys of the new Star Wars Movie!

I don't even like superman at all (I find him really boring), and the early reviews are making me cringe. It seems they really missed the point of the character.

(Surprisingly, I like the Cap. I normally don't go for the "super-goody-two-shoes" characters, but I find HIM interesting at least in the movies, mostly because he's still human and thus vulnerable, so he has to really work at it to fix things, unlike Supes who is practically an invincible god)

...come again?

So the empire... the EVIL empire... literally SPACE NAZIS killing people... is the same as superman a super HERO killing an unknown numbers of civilians by punching his enemies through cityblocks... is somehow the same?

What? How? Why?

Snyder... people didnt take offense that civilians died in that movie.. they took offense about how superman blatantly disregarded the safety of the people he was suposed to protect from harm. He trashed an entire city during his little showdown with Zod wich must have caused an unknown amount of deaths, i mean they literally punched each others through skyscrapers that then collapsed if i remember correctly.... but somehow him having to kill the badguy zod.. that was the one death that made him go all PTSD?

THATS the problem with your movie. Not that people died at all...

To be fair, after establishing a good amount of the movie showing there are stormtrooper who are essentialy brainwashed child soldiers, blowing the star killer or just killing the regular storm troopers seems harsh.

Way to prove why you're such an incompetent storyteller, Zack.

inu-kun:
To be fair, after establishing a good amount of the movie showing there are stormtrooper who are essentialy brainwashed child soldiers, blowing the star killer or just killing the regular storm troopers seems harsh.

I don't see how this connects. The point of the Man of Steel criticism was that Supes was probably contributing to the deaths of the people he was supposed to be protecting. Not killing the people he was supposed to be killing.

Really? Star Wars killed more civilians? Star Wars? War of Stars? Where wars are waged in space among STARS and planets where billions live?

Kind of mathematically inevitable don't you think, Zack?

Well this is a director which made a BvS movie inwhich Batman straight up murders people.....from what ive read. So i dont think he gets those characters all that much. Zack likes spectacle and he is good at it - not so much character stuff. In BvS trailer Superman flies Batman through a building.....kind makes the whole Superman does feel guilty for the MoS destruction abit stupid when he does the exact same thing again. Sorry i went off at a tangent. lol.

Comparing to unsimiliar movies is stupid - why not compare MoS to Schindler List. Better to compare it to The Avengers. But the thing is Superman always had that code, its part of his character and identity. Personally i get that he is a new Superman and he did save billions and save the world from destruction. I just think the Director sucked at getting across this fact and of having Superman gutted by the destruction caused in the fight and learning an important lesson.

He should think or rather watched SW:TFA again-

Sure you saw a glimspe on what the civilian saw before they were vapourize by Starkiller but that's it, it was kinda quick and maybe painless for them (as Obi said, there was a scream and then silence). The civilians of Metropolis pretty much ran in terror trying not to be crush by debris!

It was simply the badguy firing a massive laser, not two godlike beings having a big brawl in the city.

Speaking of the lazer, there was no way the Resistance/ Rebel could had prevented it unless they were able to see into future. The battle of Metropolis could had been easily prevented or rather far less casualities if Superman had focus more on steering Zod away from the city.

The resistance/ Rebel had no reputation being a total saint unlike Superman other than being the goodguy and helping those in needs (well in the Rebels cartoon).

I think a producer occasionally needs to take a newspaper, roll it up into a baton and wack Zack Snyder across the had every once and a while, just to keep him in check.

Wow he really missed the point on that one.

Audiences are generally ok when the bad guys kill people mate. It's when you're supposed ideal hero slaughters scores of people through negligence and doesn't seem to care that you've screwed up.

I'm guessing this is a tactic on his part. Trying to equate the character based criticisms with standard moral guardian "thing of the children" "it's too violent" criticisms. Oh well, he's going to very busy defending his work over the next few weeks anyway so maybe we should go easy on him for now.

tzimize:
Its sad that the director has so little insight into the character he is using, and so little understanding of the critique of his work.

That said, the death toll in the newest star wars movie was completely retarded.

Not really. The First Order blows away Hosnian Prime using the actions of The Resistance as justification. They manage to take out the New Republic fleet in the process and level the playing field. In their twisted logic they justified their genocide, something that the Empire never did when they nuked alderaan unprovoked. If the First Order is Space ISIS they used the Starkiller as an excuse to point out how impotent the Republic was. Horrific, and twisted justifications.

That just solidified why I don't like Snyder. I always thought he was a bit of simpleton, but this pretty much proves it. He just likes sex, violence, and flashy fight scenes. Which is fine. But he should probably stop doing adeptations. He clearly doesn't get subtext or nuance. Watchmen pretty much proved that. When will DC take the hint and drop him? He's dragging their whole universe down.

I hate the Awakenverse, but as a percentage of the total population, No they didn't, and the statement is asinine anyways.

Holy shit snyder is still defending this haha.

The reason people critiqued the collateral damage of man of steel so much is because it was suppose to be a movie about SUPER MAN. SUPER GOD DAMN MAN.

He's literally suppose to be the archetypical perfect day saving hero that never makes a mistake and saves everybody by default. And in man of steel he is constantly destroying everything near him while he fights and does most of said fighting in super duper crowded spaces. Super Man is Super Man because 99.9% of the time he is thinking about and focusing on everyone besides himself, every single thought, action and split second decision he makes should revolve around keeping everyone else as safe as possible.

In Man of Steel "superman" says fuck it to all of that, doesn't give a flying fuck at all about anyone and has a big dumb fight exclusively in the most crowded of crowded spaces and although it is never shown directly, logic dictates literal millions of people die because of this. Because of his stupidity and the movies stupidity.

God I hate man of steel so fucking much, and I'm not even a big comic person or massive super man fanboy, I just hate how illogically moronic so very much of that film is. It makes me so damn angry. Its like someone making a batman movie and he's literally just murdering everyone he goes near. Its a giant middle finger to everything the character is suppose to be about.

Nope, Zack, the fact that the villains in another movie had a higher body count than your movie's hero (who just happens to be The Boy Scout, otherwise known as Superman...) is not really a valid defence of your movie.

It *is* kinda a valid criticism of The Force Awakens though - for largely unrelated reasons to why Zack's bringing it up. Hands up - who really *felt* those deaths in TFA? Who felt anything at all for the billions of completely non-characterised people who died in that scene? At least with Alderaan in A New Hope, we could see Leia's despair at losing her family and friends. The planets that got blown up in TFA didn't even appear to have had names as far as the movie was concerned... (I'm sure there are names for them somewhere in the expanded materials or in the novelisation, but I'm judging the movie by itself here.)

Its official. Zack Snyder understand Superman like Nintendo understands how to sell home consoles.

wizzy555:
Bureaucrat Synder you technically correct. The best kind of correct.

Guards! Bring me the paperwork I need to fill out to have him promoted to grade 43.

The_Darkness:

It *is* kinda a valid criticism of The Force Awakens though - for largely unrelated reasons to why Zack's bringing it up. Hands up - who really *felt* those deaths in TFA? Who felt anything at all for the billions of completely non-characterised people who died in that scene?

I kind of did, and still do to this day, but it has nothing to do with the movie. My mind wonders on stuff like that. How many mothers just died breast feeding their newborn? How many kids were excited to be getting out of school for the day, only to be murdered for no reason besides being in the wrong place at the wrong time? How many people on that planet may have actually been loyal to the First Order, or at least The Empire, and just couldn't get enough funds together to get off world? How many normal people who just care about waking up, getting to work on time, and making enough money to survive and couldn't care less about who is in charge higher up just died because some dick pushed a button? And that makes me wonder what the hell is wrong with literally every single person on Starkiller base. None of them even blinked as they willing slaughtered billions of people, probably the biggest death toll in the history of the entire universe. Worse, some of them cheered. That makes you a monster in my book. You are no longer human, alien, or even an animal. Monsters, every one of them, and every one of them deserves to die.
Anyway, like I said, my mind wonders on these sorts of things, probably more than most.

On to the topic at hand. For a second, I raised my eyebrow and thought, "Uh...no. A handful of villagers is NOT more than all the people in the city." It took me a second to remember what Starkiller base did, so then I was like, "Okay, he's right I guess..."

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