Quake Champions Will be Free to Play

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Quake Champions Will be Free to Play

quake-champions-320

Free-to-play players will only have access to Quake Champion's Ranger champion.

Bethesda Softwork has finally revealed the business model for Quake Champions, its upcoming Quake reboot. In an interview with Polygon, creative director Tim Willits reveals that the game will be fully free-to-play, but will also include a paid option. No mention of the dreaded microtransactions were had.

Essentially, free-to-play players will have access to all of Quake Champion's maps and modes, but only the Ranger champion. They can pay a one-off fee to permanently unlock all other champions, but Willits said there would also be in-game ways to get new champions. Think Smite and its founder's pack.

"At its core, it's a free-to-play game," Willits said, "with the option to buy the Champion Pack and just get in and play with all the Champions. There are a number of Quake players that just want to play their Quake, right? And they are familiar with the business model of our previous games, and they are totally fine. 'I want to buy the game. I want to start playing. I want to have access to all the Champions.'

"But then we also understand that we want to get as many people into the game as possible, especially outside of North America and Western Europe, where we have a massive fan base. So we want to have the flexibility to have a free-to-play option for those people."

Free-to-play players will earn "favor" - the game's in-game currency - and use it to temporarily unlock new champions. "I don't want to use the word rent," Willits said of the system. "You do spend favor to have access to them for a limited amount of time, yes. But you don't spend any real money on it."

Source: Polygon

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And just like that, any interest in The Quake Overwatch clone evaporated in a puff of spent plasma.

So, when is a real Quake 5 coming along? Not that I'm holding my breath since Zenimax farmed out Doom's multiplayer to the Halo 5 B team and got about what they deserved.

Not the greatest idea, because the problem with free to play shooters is the amount of cheaters. But I guess that it's really difficult to achieve financial success with that type of game in the age of Overwatch.

Unlike the Switch where I kept getting excited, then worried, then excited, then unexcited, the "new Quake" is just a simple downward fall.

Edit: "I dont want to use the word rent..." Probably cause even that sounds more charitable than it really is. Extort maybe?

...Occured to me, Champions? CHAMPIONS!? Why do you need champions? It should be a FPS with guns on the map you pick up and shoot. You shouldnt need any champions.

fix-the-spade:
And just like that, any interest in The Quake Overwatch clone evaporated in a puff of spent plasma.

So, when is a real Quake 5 coming along? Not that I'm holding my breath since Zenimax farmed out Doom's multiplayer to the Halo 5 B team and got about what they deserved.

Oh holy shit, not everything is an overwatch clone, fuck. Overwatch is a tf2 clone with fewer weapon switches.

'I don't want to use the word rent' And yet, it feels so very, very appropriate. 'Temporary' heroes? Really? Fuck, every other free-to-play hero game I can think of right now has had 'can buy heroes with in-game currency'. Shit, Tribes: Ascend gave you three of the fuckers to work with, not just 1. Have to give people something to grind for, taking what they earned away arbitrarily is just going to alienate the fuck out of players and make nobody want to play.

If they really wanted to do Free-to-play with this, they should've just stuck to the Skins model of FtP gaming. Fuck, I remember Quake 3 had dozens of skins for everyone anyway, could've just done that instead and not make people RENT their favourite heroes. Or, hell, just make it a paid-for game and be done with it, really go old-school with it and not cram in all the dumb marketing bullshit of the 2010s game industry.

Worgen:

fix-the-spade:
And just like that, any interest in The Quake Overwatch clone evaporated in a puff of spent plasma.

So, when is a real Quake 5 coming along? Not that I'm holding my breath since Zenimax farmed out Doom's multiplayer to the Halo 5 B team and got about what they deserved.

Oh holy shit, not everything is an overwatch clone, fuck. Overwatch is a tf2 clone with fewer weapon switches.

And TF2 is a quake clone (well ok, mod, but still) with character classes... which... wait... is Quake Champions a Quake clone? Is it Quake, all the way down?

all I remember of quake is that the "champions" were all the exact same except they look different (and might be taller or shorter)

is this Quake gonna be adding special abilities unique to champions?
cause thats dumb as fuck

Wrex Brogan:

Worgen:

fix-the-spade:
And just like that, any interest in The Quake Overwatch clone evaporated in a puff of spent plasma.

So, when is a real Quake 5 coming along? Not that I'm holding my breath since Zenimax farmed out Doom's multiplayer to the Halo 5 B team and got about what they deserved.

Oh holy shit, not everything is an overwatch clone, fuck. Overwatch is a tf2 clone with fewer weapon switches.

And TF2 is a quake clone (well ok, mod, but still) with character classes... which... wait... is Quake Champions a Quake clone? Is it Quake, all the way down?

But Quake is DOOM's younger brother, and they are the children of Wolfenstein 3D. (Duke Nukem 3D and Shadow Warrior are their cousins :D )

I think Overwatch fulfills all my competitive multiplayer needs. I tried DOOM and now I can't seem to find any games. Eternal Crusade is a complete crapshoot. Etc, etc.

Adam Jensen:
Not the greatest idea, because the problem with free to play shooters is the amount of cheaters. But I guess that it's really difficult to achieve financial success with that type of game in the age of Overwatch.

I don't think a game being free to play attracts cheating. Look at CS:Go. And Battlefield 1. And The Division. And Dark Souls. Its really that Blizzard has a super high price for cheating. Its a perma ban. Even for a lot of stuff that nets you a temp ban in CS:Go.

AzrealMaximillion:

Adam Jensen:
Not the greatest idea, because the problem with free to play shooters is the amount of cheaters. But I guess that it's really difficult to achieve financial success with that type of game in the age of Overwatch.

I don't think a game being free to play attracts cheating. Look at CS:Go. And Battlefield 1. And The Division. And Dark Souls. Its really that Blizzard has a super high price for cheating. Its a perma ban. Even for a lot of stuff that nets you a temp ban in CS:Go.

I think it is less attracting cheaters, and more not deterring them. If you get banned from a F2P game, it is not like it costs you anything to make a new account. And I feel F2P games have lower quality control since it seems like such games are ironically more about making money than paid games

Saelune:

AzrealMaximillion:

Adam Jensen:
Not the greatest idea, because the problem with free to play shooters is the amount of cheaters. But I guess that it's really difficult to achieve financial success with that type of game in the age of Overwatch.

I don't think a game being free to play attracts cheating. Look at CS:Go. And Battlefield 1. And The Division. And Dark Souls. Its really that Blizzard has a super high price for cheating. Its a perma ban. Even for a lot of stuff that nets you a temp ban in CS:Go.

I think it is less attracting cheaters, and more not deterring them. If you get banned from a F2P game, it is not like it costs you anything to make a new account. And I feel F2P games have lower quality control since it seems like such games are ironically more about making money than paid games

Agreed. As much as people hate on DLC, Eastern F2P games are notoriously bad for money grabbing.

fix-the-spade:
And just like that, any interest in The Quake Overwatch clone evaporated in a puff of spent plasma.

May I ask why?

We have the option to buy the game and have access to the breadth of content therein. Or, if someone is the sort without expendable income, they have an alternative way to play with limited content.

I'm curious over the reaction coming from some people over this. Is it because they used the phrase 'free to play'? Is it the stigma of that phrase, despite id explaining the difference in their model?

I mean, you're free to be disinterested in whatever you wish. I'm just genuinely curious where the vitriol is coming from over this announcement.

So, when is a real Quake 5 coming along? Not that I'm holding my breath since Zenimax farmed out Doom's multiplayer to the Halo 5 B team and got about what they deserved.

Zenimax didn't do that, id did. And, immediately after release, they took back development and support of the multiplayer side of DOOM. (which, by the way, was the instant it started getting better. still doesn't excuse them outsourcing it in the first place, though.) With Quake: Champions, id is developing it internally. So it's not a similar situation to DOOM.

Wrex Brogan:
just make it a paid-for game and be done with it

That's basically what it is, though. Did everyone skip the interview and just go by the blurbs and snippets?

From the interview:
"At its core, it is a free-to-play game," Willits said, "with the option to buy the Champion Pack and just get in and play with all the Champions. There are a number of Quake players that just want to play their Quake, right? And they are familiar with the business model of our previous games, and they are totally fine. [They say,] "I want to buy the game. I want to start playing. I want to have access to all the Champions."

But then we also understand that we want to get as many people into the game as possible, especially outside of North America and Western Europe, where we have a massive fan base. So we want to have the flexibility to have a free-to-play option for those people."

And from the OP of this thread:
"creative director Tim Willits reveals that the game will be fully free-to-play, but will also include a paid option. No mention of the dreaded microtransactions were had."

So basically you can buy the game with a one-time purchase and have everything. Or, you can play it for free with limited access.

I'm...really failing to see the issue here. And this is coming from someone who prefers buying his games rather than getting them for 'free'.

Worgen:

Oh holy shit, not everything is an overwatch clone, fuck. Overwatch is a tf2 clone with fewer weapon switches.

Overwatch is the current 'flavor of the month'. It's the new 'chicken'. Everything will inevitably be compared to it. The waifu obsessions don't help, either.

AzrealMaximillion:

Adam Jensen:
Not the greatest idea, because the problem with free to play shooters is the amount of cheaters. But I guess that it's really difficult to achieve financial success with that type of game in the age of Overwatch.

I don't think a game being free to play attracts cheating. Look at CS:Go. And Battlefield 1. And The Division. And Dark Souls. Its really that Blizzard has a super high price for cheating. Its a perma ban. Even for a lot of stuff that nets you a temp ban in CS:Go.

Temp ban that last a lifetime as the only temp ban you're getting in CS:GO is for griefing (1 month)

Vigormortis:

Worgen:

Oh holy shit, not everything is an overwatch clone, fuck. Overwatch is a tf2 clone with fewer weapon switches.

Overwatch is the current 'flavor of the month'. It's the new 'chicken'. Everything will inevitably be compared to it. The waifu obsessions don't help, either.

I think thats one of the things that kinda sunk Battleborn and is kinda hurting Paladins. None of the characters are really waifu bait like the blizzard ones are.

I mean look at Reyna, she is awesome but looks too capable and adult to be a waifu.
image

So despite a p2p option, people are pissed about a f2p option, and despite the presence of a "classic mode" that strips champion abilities, people are pissed about the champion abilities.

Oh, and apparently Nyx is "virtue signalling" to the "tumblr crowd," but so far I've only seen one comment on YouTube claim that.

Huh. 0_0

Worgen:

I think thats one of the things that kinda sunk Battleborn and is kinda hurting Paladins. None of the characters are really waifu bait like the blizzard ones are.

Battleborn I can't comment on too much, but Paladins?

In terms of visual design, the only Overwatch heroes that could reasonably be called "waifu bait" are Widowmaker and dVa. Meanwhile, Paladins has characters like:

http://paladins.gamepedia.com/Evie

http://paladins.gamepedia.com/Skye

http://paladins.gamepedia.com/Ying

The character of Cassie would have also fit into waifu territory before receiving a visual upgrade.

It also helps Overwatch that its characters and world has backstories, while Paladins is bereft of both of these things.

Hawki:
So despite a p2p option, people are pissed about a f2p option, and despite the presence of a "classic mode" that strips champion abilities, people are pissed about the champion abilities.

Oh, and apparently Nyx is "virtue signalling" to the "tumblr crowd," but so far I've only seen one comment on YouTube claim that.

Huh. 0_0

Worgen:

I think thats one of the things that kinda sunk Battleborn and is kinda hurting Paladins. None of the characters are really waifu bait like the blizzard ones are.

Battleborn I can't comment on too much, but Paladins?

In terms of visual design, the only Overwatch heroes that could reasonably be called "waifu bait" are Widowmaker and dVa. Meanwhile, Paladins has characters like:

http://paladins.gamepedia.com/Evie

http://paladins.gamepedia.com/Skye

http://paladins.gamepedia.com/Ying

The character of Cassie would have also fit into waifu territory before receiving a visual upgrade.

It also helps Overwatch that its characters and world has backstories, while Paladins is bereft of both of these things.

Tracer and Mia are totally waifu bait. Evie visually looks it but her personality is pretty anti waifu, Skye is more of a fem-fatal type which also doesn't quite waifu work.

It's weird how of all 3 somewhat similar games that came out around the same time. Battleborn was the most original but it also died the hardest death. Probably because every launch decision they made was wrong.

Worgen:
Snip.

Don't know who Mia (do you mean Mei?) is, and Tracer is about as anti-waifu as you can get. If Tracer counts as waifu, then practically every character in Paladins would be a waifu by that standard outside Tyra.

Also, saying Evie (or any Paladins character) has a "personality" is like saying there's lettuce in a big mac - technically true, but irrelevant to the main package, and barely noticable.

Vigormortis:

Wrex Brogan:
just make it a paid-for game and be done with it

That's basically what it is, though. Did everyone skip the interview and just go by the blurbs and snippets?

From the interview:
"At its core, it is a free-to-play game," Willits said, "with the option to buy the Champion Pack and just get in and play with all the Champions. There are a number of Quake players that just want to play their Quake, right? And they are familiar with the business model of our previous games, and they are totally fine. [They say,] "I want to buy the game. I want to start playing. I want to have access to all the Champions."

But then we also understand that we want to get as many people into the game as possible, especially outside of North America and Western Europe, where we have a massive fan base. So we want to have the flexibility to have a free-to-play option for those people."

And from the OP of this thread:
"creative director Tim Willits reveals that the game will be fully free-to-play, but will also include a paid option. No mention of the dreaded microtransactions were had."

So basically you can buy the game with a one-time purchase and have everything. Or, you can play it for free with limited access.

I'm...really failing to see the issue here. And this is coming from someone who prefers buying his games rather than getting them for 'free'.

...You know my main complaint was the 'rental' heroes thing, right? Not it being free-to-play? Most free-to-play games have paid-for 'bundles' that unlocks a lot of things anyway, typically priced at the same rate as a full game, my complaint is that Quake makes you rent the champions if you don't want to pay full money for them, something that is kind of a dick move since you kinda want more permanent rewards for all your grinding.

So, uhhh, maybe take more than one sentence of my post before responding to it? Helps with things like context and all that.

Hawki:

Worgen:
Snip.

Don't know who Mia (do you mean Mei?) is, and Tracer is about as anti-waifu as you can get. If Tracer counts as waifu, then practically every character in Paladins would be a waifu by that standard outside Tyra.

Also, saying Evie (or any Paladins character) has a "personality" is like saying there's lettuce in a big mac - technically true, but irrelevant to the main package, and barely noticable.

Mei whatever. How is Tracer anti-waifu?

Sure paladins doesn't have animated short movie things but the characters have plenty of personality just by listening to their voice overs.

Worgen:

Mei whatever. How is Tracer anti-waifu?

Because nothing about her (or Mei's) design is sexualized, nor is their personality permiscuous.

It hasn't stopped fans from writing/drawing them as such, but that could apply to any female ever. But nothing in Tracer's canonical representation shifts her towards waifu territory, whereas someone like Skye or Ying aren't only drawn in a sexualized manner, what little personality they have adds to this.

Worgen:

Sure paladins doesn't have animated short movie things but the characters have plenty of personality just by listening to their voice overs.

"Plenty of personality" is being generous.

Take Evie. Does she have backstory? No. Does she have character development? No. Does she have any established character dynamic with another champion? No. Does she have personality? Technically yes, but if I was asked to describe it, it would be "hyperactive" and...that's it. She flies around on a broom, seems to have fun doing it, and cries out "achoo!" when she does her ultimate. That's it. That isn't the basis of what one could reasonably call a 'character.'

Hawki:

Worgen:

Mei whatever. How is Tracer anti-waifu?

Because nothing about her (or Mei's) design is sexualized, nor is their personality permiscuous.

It hasn't stopped fans from writing/drawing them as such, but that could apply to any female ever. But nothing in Tracer's canonical representation shifts her towards waifu territory, whereas someone like Skye or Ying aren't only drawn in a sexualized manner, what little personality they have adds to this.

Worgen:

Sure paladins doesn't have animated short movie things but the characters have plenty of personality just by listening to their voice overs.

"Plenty of personality" is being generous.

Take Evie. Does she have backstory? No. Does she have character development? No. Does she have any established character dynamic with another champion? No. Does she have personality? Technically yes, but if I was asked to describe it, it would be "hyperactive" and...that's it. She flies around on a broom, seems to have fun doing it, and cries out "achoo!" when she does her ultimate. That's it. That isn't the basis of what one could reasonably call a 'character.'

Are you kidding? Look at her face, shes got a round baby face with huge eyes and glasses, plus she looks very coy in her animations. Plus plus, awhile back people found out she had a very shapely butt.

Evie does have a back story but its bcannon for now since its not in the game. The wiki has back story for some characters.
"Prodigy to the archmage of Stonebriar, Evie defied her master by using Soul Magic to bind the Ice Wraith Xerses forever to her. Gaining great power and becoming immortal, she was outcast for her unholy act. Wandering the north for time untold, no one knows why she has come to Crosswind Hold, and no one dares ask."
Its more than just her battle sounds, its what she says when the match starts, its her taunts, her jokes, even her curse.

Worgen:

Are you kidding? Look at her face, shes got a round baby face with huge eyes and glasses, plus she looks very coy in her animations. Plus plus, awhile back people found out she had a very shapely butt.

At best, I could call Mei "cute." That's it.

Come on, are you honestly suggesting that this:

https://blzgdapipro-a.akamaihd.net/media/artwork/mei-concept.jpg

Is more waifu material than this:

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/262723759226691874/E004DB96CABD7C2D2593CBF3E6294F0D0B830B36/

Worgen:
Evie does have a back story but its bcannon for now since its not in the game. The wiki has back story for some characters.
"Prodigy to the archmage of Stonebriar, Evie defied her master by using Soul Magic to bind the Ice Wraith Xerses forever to her. Gaining great power and becoming immortal, she was outcast for her unholy act. Wandering the north for time untold, no one knows why she has come to Crosswind Hold, and no one dares ask."
Its more than just her battle sounds, its what she says when the match starts, its her taunts, her jokes, even her curse.

So, Evie is one of the few (keyword on "few") champions that has a backstory. Huh.

Even then, the only common thread is that there's a place called Crosswind Hold that some of the champions have gathered at to do...something, and I don't even know what Crosswind Hold is. I certainly can't tell you what soul magic is, or what kind of person Xerses was, or what an ice wraith is bar the fact it exists, or where or what Stonebriar is. Characterization is hampered when it lacks context.

But fine, let's go by this. From this, I can gather that Evie is "defiant," arguably "power-hungry" and...that's it. There's a bit of a character there, but still a thinly sketched one.

I mean, comparing character summaries from both games, here we have something like Cassie:

"Raised in Cobalt Keep and daughter to the legendary huntmaster Arturos, Cassie snuck away from home to find adventure and freedom. Armed with her Father's crossbow and joined by her childhood companion Zigs, Cassie enters the lands of Crosswind Hold ready for any challenge."

From this, I can gather that Cassie is a good archer, has a bird friend named Zigs, possibly has an adverse relationship with her father, and is adventurous. That's a bit of a character, but not much, and it doesn't help that there's no information on Cobalt Keep itself, or what kind of man Arturos is. In contrast, let's look at Tracer's backstory, confining it entirely to her hero page:

Real Name: Lena Oxton, Age: 26
Occupation: Adventurer
Base of Operations: London, England
Affiliation: Overwatch (formerly)

The former Overwatch agent known as Tracer is a time-jumping adventurer and an irrepressible force for good.

Lena Oxton (call sign: "Tracer") was the youngest person ever inducted into Overwatch's experimental flight program. Known for her fearless piloting skills, she was handpicked to test the prototype of a teleporting fighter, the Slipstream. But during its first flight, the aircraft's teleportation matrix malfunctioned, and it disappeared. Lena was presumed dead.

She reappeared months later, but her ordeal had greatly changed her: her molecules had been desynchronized from the flow of time. Suffering from "chronal disassociation," she was a living ghost, disappearing for hours and days at a time. Even for the brief moments she was present, she was unable to maintain physical form.

Overwatch's doctors and scientists were stumped, and Tracer's case seemed hopeless until a scientist named Winston designed the chronal accelerator, a device capable of keeping Tracer anchored in the present. In addition, it gave Tracer the ability to control her own time, allowing her to speed it up and slow it down at will. With her newfound skills, she became one of Overwatch's most effective agents.

Since Overwatch's dissolution, Tracer has continued to right wrongs and fight the good fight wherever the opportunity presents itself.

I mean, the difference isn't just in size, it's also in content. From this, and nothing else, I can gather that Tracer is altruistic, a skilled pilot, is suffering from "chronal disassicoation" (the side effects of which are explained), is a former Overwatch agent, is anchored to the present via a device given to her by Winston, can manipulate time to her own ends, and remains altruistic even after the end of Overwatch. It also helps that in this text, enough lore exists to tell us what kind of organization Overwatch is, who Winston is, how Tracer's device actually functions, and there's even artwork of the Slipstream itself.

By these standards, I can call Tracer a character. The majority of Paladins' characters lack any backstory, and even with someone like Cassie or Evie, their characters remain broadly sketched, bereft of context. Their emotes do add to this true, but Overwatch's emotes have the characters not only making general comments, but specific comments when paired with certain characters, and when they appear on certain maps. Far as I can tell, Paladins is bereft of this as well.

For instance, looking at Tracer's emotes, I can summarize that:

-Mei was an inspiration to her.

-Dislikes Widowmaker.

-Likely likes Lucio.

-Has a good relationship with Winston and Jack.

-Likely has pro-omnic views; at the least, Mondhatta was a figure she admired (backed up by her animated short)

-Used to live in King's Row (we actually know that she does live in King's Row)

-Used to be stationed at Watchpoint: Gibraltar.

-Has an adverse relationship with Sombra due to the latter stealing technology similar to her chronal accelerator (datamined only)

Now, looking at Evie's emotes, I can summize that:

-Likely dislikes everyone (or is fooling around, I can't tell)

-Wants to live a normal life without having to "blow everyone up" (though she could be sarcastic here)

-Likes shiny things.

And that's it. She does have some specific emotes to some characters, but I can't say if they're based on any pre-history, or whether she simply has a barbed tongue (which is characterization in of itself, admittedly).

So, yeah. Paladins is still lacking in the characterization department. It's not at the standard of Overwatch, and it's not even a standard that Overwatch pioneered for multiplayer-only games (TF2, LoL, etc.)

Hawki:
snip

It has become apparent this is a really stupid discussion so Imma go play darksouls.

Worgen:

I mean look at Reyna, she is awesome but looks too capable and adult to be a waifu.]

I bet to differ.

Those legs...
That swagger...

Wrex Brogan:

...You know my main complaint was the 'rental' heroes thing, right? Not it being free-to-play? Most free-to-play games have paid-for 'bundles' that unlocks a lot of things anyway, typically priced at the same rate as a full game, my complaint is that Quake makes you rent the champions if you don't want to pay full money for them, something that is kind of a dick move since you kinda want more permanent rewards for all your grinding.

That was covered in the interview as well.

There are permanent rewards for completing challenges and spending favor.

Willits also discussed their conscious effort to make earning Favor relatively fast and easy, greatly diminishing the 'grind' you would typically see in F2P games.

He also said the game would be in beta for a fairly long time, allowing them to get everything balanced and 'right' before public release.

So, uhhh, maybe take more than one sentence of my post before responding to it? Helps with things like context and all that.

My point was that everyone seemed only to be reacting to the tiny blurbs Bogos had in the OP instead of reading the full response and explanations offered by Willits in the interview.

Vigormortis:

fix-the-spade:
And just like that, any interest in The Quake Overwatch clone evaporated in a puff of spent plasma.

May I ask why?

Of course you may.

i) F2P games, but especially shooters, invariably get infested with hackers. Even games like League of Legends and World of Tanks suffer from this problem. Even well funded developers who are actively working against hackers have never quite got on top of it. I doubt Quake Champions will reach the level of success that leaves the devs with the funding to fight hackers ad infinitum, even if it does it would need Zenimax to let them do it.

ii) F2P implies a set of mechanics will be present in the game. Even a 'buy it now' option doesn't guarantee immunity from them. In other games with unlock everything options I've found that removing the grind simply exposes how little game there is underneath it.

iii) F2P affects a game's infrastructure. Even if you paid for it outright, the required connection to account servers, stat tracking and exploit prevention rules out hosting private servers and custom game types. Custom games are an integral part of Arena Shooters (but especially Quake) and without them it won't be a proper Quake game.

iv) This game has the name Quake attached to it, that carries a certain degree of meaning. It means arenas, it means on map weapons, power ups and a level playing field. Making the game 'champion' based rules that out, it'll be champion specific load outs and abilities, which might work just fine, but it's not Quake.

It's the same problem the Doom multiplayer had. Even if the game is perfectly serviceable as Doom's multiplayer was, the name carries expectation and the kind of people who buy it want a game that meets those expectations. The utter failure of Doom's multiplayer suggests that the people playing Call of Duty/Battlefield/Overwatch/TF 2/Halo don't give a hoot about it either way, so making a game with the Quake name in it but not actually making a Quake game leaves it as a product without a market.

There you go, the thought process of an old FPS obsessive.

fix-the-spade:

iv) This game has the name Quake attached to it, that carries a certain degree of meaning. It means arenas, it means on map weapons, power ups and a level playing field. Making the game 'champion' based rules that out, it'll be champion specific load outs and abilities, which might work just fine, but it's not Quake.

Never played Quake, so I can only take an outsider's perspective, but the idea that "it's not Quake"...okay, but what IS Quake?

First we have Quake 1, which as I understand, is mostly known for its singleplayer, and harkens back to the C'thulu mythos, only it's less about cosmic horror, and more shooting the cosmic horrors. Then we have Quake 2, which has nothing in common with its predecessor in terms of context, and shifts to shooting borg wanabees. Then we have Quake III, which is a multiplayer only arena shooter where the premise is heroes have been drawn in to participate in some kind of gladitorial tournament for fame and glory. Then there's Quake 4, which is an actual sequel to Quake 2 (so there's consistency in terms of context), but is more like an MMS in terms of gameplay. Then there's Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, which is a prequel to the strogg storyline, but is more based on Battlefield in terms of gameplay, keeping up the gameplay dissonance. Quake Live aside acting as a remake of Quake 3, we now have Quake Champions, which combines the arena motif of Quake 3, with the C'thulu aesthetic of Quake 1, and now adds champion abilities.

Maybe I'm talking out of my arse, but Quake strikes me as one of the most schizophrenic game series I can think of. The ones you list below, Doom, Halo, Battlefield, Call of Duty, all of these are series that have multiple installments, and all have a number of relatively consistent gameplay and contextual tropes. Quake? Not so much. And yeah, I know how Quake 2 was called "Quake 2" because iD couldn't come up with a better name for it, but that aside, I'm left to look at the series and go, "huh?"

Not dissing anyone who likes the previous Quake games and doesn't like Champions's gameplay (because goodness knows I disliked the "CoDification" of Halo), but even so...well, back to my original question - how is Quake actually defined?

Hawki:

fix-the-spade:

iv) This game has the name Quake attached to it, that carries a certain degree of meaning. It means arenas, it means on map weapons, power ups and a level playing field. Making the game 'champion' based rules that out, it'll be champion specific load outs and abilities, which might work just fine, but it's not Quake.

Never played Quake, so I can only take an outsider's perspective, but the idea that "it's not Quake"...okay, but what IS Quake?

First we have Quake 1, which as I understand, is mostly known for its singleplayer, and harkens back to the C'thulu mythos, only it's less about cosmic horror, and more shooting the cosmic horrors. Then we have Quake 2, which has nothing in common with its predecessor in terms of context, and shifts to shooting borg wanabees. Then we have Quake III, which is a multiplayer only arena shooter where the premise is heroes have been drawn in to participate in some kind of gladitorial tournament for fame and glory. Then there's Quake 4, which is an actual sequel to Quake 2 (so there's consistency in terms of context), but is more like an MMS in terms of gameplay. Then there's Enemy Territory: Quake Wars, which is a prequel to the strogg storyline, but is more based on Battlefield in terms of gameplay, keeping up the gameplay dissonance. Quake Live aside acting as a remake of Quake 3, we now have Quake Champions, which combines the arena motif of Quake 3, with the C'thulu aesthetic of Quake 1, and now adds champion abilities.

Maybe I'm talking out of my arse, but Quake strikes me as one of the most schizophrenic game series I can think of. The ones you list below, Doom, Halo, Battlefield, Call of Duty, all of these are series that have multiple installments, and all have a number of relatively consistent gameplay and contextual tropes. Quake? Not so much. And yeah, I know how Quake 2 was called "Quake 2" because iD couldn't come up with a better name for it, but that aside, I'm left to look at the series and go, "huh?"

Not dissing anyone who likes the previous Quake games and doesn't like Champions's gameplay (because goodness knows I disliked the "CoDification" of Halo), but even so...well, back to my original question - how is Quake actually defined?

Quake Wars is actually a sequel to Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory of which Brink is the sequel to Quake Wars and then Dirty Bomb is the sequel to Brink. For the sake of simplicity it's a thing by itself.

From the perspective of multiplayer the Quake series is very consistent. 2-32 player square off in a Free For All, Team Death Match, Capture the Flag or King of the Hill, every player has the same weapons to begin with (usually the blaster) and weapons are scattered around the map. Ammo, power ups and health are also all pick ups, memorising their locations a respawns is extremely important, movement is fast, auto aim is not present.

Most importantly there are no player classes, different skins are purely cosmetic, roughly the same size and have identical hit boxes. Quake, Quake 2, Quake 3, Quake 4 and Quake Live are all the same even with the stylistic differences.

For the single player Quake is still relatively consistent in gameplay. Quake 4 moved at a slower pace but was still pretty similar to Quake/2 and certainly not a Military Shooter (more like Doom 3, unsurprisingly). Thematically it's sci-fi from 2 onwards and 2-Live are set in the same universe.

So TL:DR, Quake is a fast paced arena shooter that starts everyone on a level playing field and relies solely on individual skill to gain the advantage.

fix-the-spade:

i) F2P games, but especially shooters, invariably get infested with hackers. Even games like League of Legends and World of Tanks suffer from this problem. Even well funded developers who are actively working against hackers have never quite got on top of it. I doubt Quake Champions will reach the level of success that leaves the devs with the funding to fight hackers ad infinitum, even if it does it would need Zenimax to let them do it.

Right...but ALL popular online games get inundated with hackers. It's inevitable. So the issue of 'it'll get a lot of hackers' seems like a moot issue.

Plus, there's the chance id might utilize an outside anti-cheat system like VAC. This would mitigate at least some of the burden of monitoring the cheaters.

ii) F2P implies a set of mechanics will be present in the game. Even a 'buy it now' option doesn't guarantee immunity from them. In other games with unlock everything options I've found that removing the grind simply exposes how little game there is underneath it.

Maybe, but we don't know any more about the game yet. All we have to go on is what id, and Willits specifically, have said so far. And so far there's been no discussion of some sort of monetization system beyond the 'unlock all' pack.

But let's assume there's some sort of cosmetic RMMT system added in at some later date. This won't preclude the ability for someone to mod the game locally. So it would be a system one could easily ignore.

iii) F2P affects a game's infrastructure. Even if you paid for it outright, the required connection to account servers, stat tracking and exploit prevention rules out hosting private servers and custom game types. Custom games are an integral part of Arena Shooters (but especially Quake) and without them it won't be a proper Quake game.

There's no reason to believe custom/3rd party/local servers will be out, even if it requires some kind of account login.

Is it possible? Absolutely. But we can't assume it'll be the case.

I'll be pissed if it is, though. Very.

iv) This game has the name Quake attached to it, that carries a certain degree of meaning. It means arenas, it means on map weapons, power ups and a level playing field. Making the game 'champion' based rules that out, it'll be champion specific load outs and abilities, which might work just fine, but it's not Quake.

The champions only have unique abilities. Weapons are still spawned on map.

They've also said there will be a host of modes, including custom lobbies, that remove the champion aspect of the game, creating the classic Quake Arena style of play.

It's the same problem the Doom multiplayer had. Even if the game is perfectly serviceable as Doom's multiplayer was, the name carries expectation and the kind of people who buy it want a game that meets those expectations. The utter failure of Doom's multiplayer suggests that the people playing Call of Duty/Battlefield/Overwatch/TF 2/Halo don't give a hoot about it either way, so making a game with the Quake name in it but not actually making a Quake game leaves it as a product without a market.

Quake Live is actually fairly popular. So while the market for something like Quake Champions may not be enormous, there IS still a fairly sizeable market for a game like it.

And DOOM's multiplayer problem came from id outsourcing it to a different developer entirely, and taking a mostly hands off approach. Since taking over the multiplayer in DOOM, it's begun to improve greatly.

With Quake Champions, id is developing it internally, so there's far less of a chance for it to turn out like the DOOM multiplayer did.

There you go, the thought process of an old FPS obsessive.

Believe it or not, I assumed these would be some of the reasons. I just wanted to hear it from you directly.

I grew up on games like Doom, Quake, Half-Life, Counter-Strike, and Hexen. Played many of them competitively, too. FPS games are still one of my primary sources of gaming entertainment today. So you could probably consider me an old FPS obsessive as well.

I can respect your reasoning, but it's not something I share. From the things I've heard Willits and id say, and from what I've seen of the game thus far, I haven't sworn off hope it may turn out great.

I'm not above accepting that it might end up being garbage, but I haven't seen anything that tells me it's guaranteed to be.

You're free to serve me humble pie if it does.

I lost interest back when they announced fixed loadouts for characters.

The UT Alpha is the only game scratching the shooty FPS arena itch

This only proves that Zenimax doesn't deserve a single cent from me. They can die together with EA for all I care.

I think I saw some in a PAX preview that each character have different kind of cosmetics.
Maybe they will charge money also for the look of the characters?

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