There's a huge pile of crap on pizza I bought...

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... I know! I'll just hold my nose and eat all that delicious pizza I wanted and paid for, around that pile of crap. This way, it will be, as if this shit was never there in the first place. Win-win and who knows, maybe there are people who love that shit! Who am I to judge and take away their choice?

This form of mental gymnastics is ad nauseam practised by all people (till realising it, me included) who buy games with various predatory and illicit business practices:
* microtransactions in non-free product
* season passes of already pre-existing but locked content or undisclosed content
* various versions of game with gated in-game content bound to this particular version alone
* day 1 dlcs
* item stores
* loot boxes and other forms of gambling
* surveillience software posed as game launch pad
* always online requirement and DRM imposed to justify behavioral monitoring

Truth is, up until you adopt principle of not supporting companies, that take a steaming dump into your games, erm I mean... pizza, things will not improve. All the excuses of:
* but it will change nothing and I will miss out on that delicious pizza
* but it's just a small pellet not a diarrhoea grade shit
* I just stuck my nose in poo by accident, cause the pizza was THAT good, next time I won't
* I can easily eat wide around it, have my fill, never be bothered by the shit
(edit) * It takes skill and dedication to eat around shit like that!

are just that. Excuses.

Alternatives are:
* state regulations banning companies from selling you crap, which lets be honest rarely stops at precisely what is needed
* be a happy crap eater
* stop ordering pizza
* continue to be vigiliant around the ever growing pile of crap pizza eater up until there's no more way to eat around

Any other you see / can think of? Honestly, I don't at this point.

It's kinda human nature to not care much unless there is an immediate threat. Most people run off the bare necessities of consciousness, so expecting much to change prior to all hell breaking loose is wishful thinking. Just look at how most of society treats each other unless there's some big disaster and life threatening peril.

In short, until the threats to one's well being are made great enough, there won't be enough majority consensus to change, unless the publisher miraculously has a change of heart. Some publishers are also better than others of course.

Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I've had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I'd rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

hanselthecaretaker:

Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I?ve had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I?d rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

I'd blame amplitude in quality. Good ingredients lose their aroma and flavour (become bland) and great taste is killed after reheating.
Bad stuff wasn't all that great in the first place, and reheating and turning some of the flavours bland might be a saving grace ;)

I fully agree, and even go so far as to include the steam DRM in my avoidance of shitty practices.

Greedy corporations will go exactly as far as they can, and just a bit further, until they encounter opposition.
Then they wait until the voices die down and try again..and again. See also net neutrality.

I think that someone once said that the price for freedom is being ever vigilant.
It seems applicable here (and elsewhere).

One can hope that if any of these blood sucking executives get sick ... doctors will sell them various parts of the treatment in lootboxes.

Pain killers? Buy a lootbox. Didn't get it? Try again.

It's "optional" anyway.

I thought something last night as I looked a my pizza collection. I have so many pizzas that I love and more than a few that I haven't finished that if the people shitting on pizza problem becomes so bad that all pizza come with shit. Then I figure I never have to buy another pizza again and probably be quite happy. I mean, I think about all the pizzas that I have enjoyed this year, most of them will make my pizza of the year list and think that it is possible to make a great pizza and not take a shit on it.

I think I figured out your code...Now I really want a pizza.

If I could I'd convince the entire game buying community to abandon the AAA industry because I want to see it burn. Fuck these big publishers and their bullshit.

Like I said in a different thread, I just want to see what else developers/publishers will come up with in future games. And how they'll convince gamers they're doing this and that with players in mind and how it's all about creating the ultimate experience custom made just for you!

Pretty soon you will have to purchase your male or female character when you start the game for the first time before you can create your character.

It's the kiddos and the average non-forum buyer that you need to convince (and their mums presumably). I always go pre-owned because fuck everything! Unless it's on sale. Like really on sale. And I'm drunk. Or high. preferably both

Catfood220:
I thought something last night as I looked a my pizza collection. I have so many pizzas that I love and more than a few that I haven't finished that if the people shitting on pizza problem becomes so bad that all pizza come with shit. Then I figure I never have to buy another pizza again and probably be quite happy. I mean, I think about all the pizzas that I have enjoyed this year, most of them will make my pizza of the year list and think that it is possible to make a great pizza and not take a shit on it.

I think I figured out your code...Now I really want a pizza.

I really would like a pizza but will probably need to stick to oh, pudding or yogurt if anything for the next 24 hours. Just got all four wisdom teeth yanked, and am laying here with a mouth full of gauze contemplating what pizza flavored pudding might be like, trying not to drool blood.

hanselthecaretaker:

Catfood220:
I thought something last night as I looked a my pizza collection. I have so many pizzas that I love and more than a few that I haven't finished that if the people shitting on pizza problem becomes so bad that all pizza come with shit. Then I figure I never have to buy another pizza again and probably be quite happy. I mean, I think about all the pizzas that I have enjoyed this year, most of them will make my pizza of the year list and think that it is possible to make a great pizza and not take a shit on it.

I think I figured out your code...Now I really want a pizza.

I really would like a pizza but will probably need to stick to oh, pudding or yogurt if anything for the next 24 hours. Just got all four wisdom teeth yanked, and am laying here with a mouth full of gauze contemplating what pizza flavored pudding might be like, trying not to drool blood.

Four teeth? Ouch. I had to have one pulled about ten years ago and it felt like someone had punched me in the face for a week. Never again if I can help it. But look on the bright side, that pizza is going to taste so good once you can eat again.

Catfood220:
I thought something last night as I looked a my pizza collection. I have so many pizzas that I love and more than a few that I haven't finished that if the people shitting on pizza problem becomes so bad that all pizza come with shit. Then I figure I never have to buy another pizza again and probably be quite happy. I mean, I think about all the pizzas that I have enjoyed this year, most of them will make my pizza of the year list and think that it is possible to make a great pizza and not take a shit on it.

I think I figured out your code...Now I really want a pizza.

Well I am with you on this. I had a look at what I alreday have aaaand I think I'm pretty set and done. For sure I'll be looking for the shitless pizza on the horizon but I am definetly done being fed crap and still will have plenty of actually good classic pizza left to chew on.

Catfood220:

hanselthecaretaker:

Catfood220:
I thought something last night as I looked a my pizza collection. I have so many pizzas that I love and more than a few that I haven't finished that if the people shitting on pizza problem becomes so bad that all pizza come with shit. Then I figure I never have to buy another pizza again and probably be quite happy. I mean, I think about all the pizzas that I have enjoyed this year, most of them will make my pizza of the year list and think that it is possible to make a great pizza and not take a shit on it.

I think I figured out your code...Now I really want a pizza.

I really would like a pizza but will probably need to stick to oh, pudding or yogurt if anything for the next 24 hours. Just got all four wisdom teeth yanked, and am laying here with a mouth full of gauze contemplating what pizza flavored pudding might be like, trying not to drool blood.

Four teeth? Ouch. I had to have one pulled about ten years ago and it felt like someone had punched me in the face for a week. Never again if I can help it. But look on the bright side, that pizza is going to taste so good once you can eat again.

I had all my teeth removed a few years ago (2..3..I think) and I remember the drooling blood part.
Though that was only for the first hours/day after the procedure. Then sleeping in a sitting position for a few days.
The only real pain I had was from a ..vein port, is that the word?.. they placed in my left foot.
I don't know why, since they had already put one on the back of my hand.
Anyway, that sucker hurt for WEEKS afterwards.

Oh, and don't worry, I still eat pizza like crazy. Don't need no teeth for that. ^^

Catfood220:

hanselthecaretaker:

Catfood220:
I thought something last night as I looked a my pizza collection. I have so many pizzas that I love and more than a few that I haven't finished that if the people shitting on pizza problem becomes so bad that all pizza come with shit. Then I figure I never have to buy another pizza again and probably be quite happy. I mean, I think about all the pizzas that I have enjoyed this year, most of them will make my pizza of the year list and think that it is possible to make a great pizza and not take a shit on it.

I think I figured out your code...Now I really want a pizza.

I really would like a pizza but will probably need to stick to oh, pudding or yogurt if anything for the next 24 hours. Just got all four wisdom teeth yanked, and am laying here with a mouth full of gauze contemplating what pizza flavored pudding might be like, trying not to drool blood.

Four teeth? Ouch. I had to have one pulled about ten years ago and it felt like someone had punched me in the face for a week. Never again if I can help it. But look on the bright side, that pizza is going to taste so good once you can eat again.

I think I'm past the profuse bleeding stage, and finally was able to eat some pudding. They had to split the bottom two in half to get them out. I haven't had much swelling at all though and the pain has been surprisingly minimal waking up this AM.

I'm still enjoying the Norco they gave me though. Even though I was numbed and full pumped with laughing gas I was fully aware of how brutal the procedure can be. That sound, that pulling, that pressure...it was intense enough in its own right to the point I had to take deep, steady breaths to avoid freaking out.

I sincerely hope your other three never cause issue, but if even one does, might as well get them all taken care of and be done with it!

I stood fast and didn't buy Diablo 3 or Starcraft 2 because of the always online requirement. If they had a LAN mode I would have happily bought them and probably mostly played online anyway.

Path of Exile is always online but the game is ACTUALLY FREE (and totally awesome) with very minimal unintrusive marketing for the cosmetics and inventory space paid perks (and the initial inventory space is extremely generous anyway).

I with the publishers would figure it out. Either charge me up front, or charge me over time. But fuck you if you try to get away with both.

hanselthecaretaker:

Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I?ve had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I?d rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

invent a microwave that can reheat pizza so it has the same crispness as it did coming out of the oven, and I guarantee you will become a millionaire!

I came into this thread with the expectation of literal rather than metaphorical pizza. I feel deceived

hanselthecaretaker:
Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I?ve had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I?d rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

It's easy to understand why really. Poor quality pizza's flavours are artificially enhanced with all kind of unhealthy and chemical crap. Which won't lose it's taste after the pizza got cold and you reheated it. High quality pizza on the other hand is made with proper ingredients and spices and the like. Which lose their flavour after a while, since they're not fresh any more.

On topic:

I can stand a bit of shit on my pizza. I'll just cut that part off or ignore it and eat the rest. However it's when they replace important parts of the pizza with shit, or when you have to pay extra to get a normal pizza instead of one with shit that I draw the line.

I used to buy at least a few pizzas each year. These days I maybe buy 2 or 3, sometimes less. Simply because of the shit that they put onto way too many of them now. Instead I look through indie pizza places or eat pizzas I already have that don't have shit on it.

hanselthecaretaker:

Catfood220:
I thought something last night as I looked a my pizza collection. I have so many pizzas that I love and more than a few that I haven't finished that if the people shitting on pizza problem becomes so bad that all pizza come with shit. Then I figure I never have to buy another pizza again and probably be quite happy. I mean, I think about all the pizzas that I have enjoyed this year, most of them will make my pizza of the year list and think that it is possible to make a great pizza and not take a shit on it.

I think I figured out your code...Now I really want a pizza.

I really would like a pizza but will probably need to stick to oh, pudding or yogurt if anything for the next 24 hours. Just got all four wisdom teeth yanked, and am laying here with a mouth full of gauze contemplating what pizza flavored pudding might be like, trying not to drool blood.

That sucks, pudding and yogurt are fine and all, but the interactivity of pizza just makes for a much more enjoyable experience.

Drake the Dragonheart:

hanselthecaretaker:

Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I?ve had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I?d rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

invent a microwave that can reheat pizza so it has the same crispness as it did coming out of the oven, and I guarantee you will become a millionaire!

But you can't have an infinitely reheatable pizza, the pizza makers just won't stand for it! If you are reheating your pizza they will definitely want you to pay again for experience of eating pizza a second time.

sanquin:

hanselthecaretaker:
Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I?ve had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I?d rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

It's easy to understand why really. Poor quality pizza's flavours are artificially enhanced with all kind of unhealthy and chemical crap. Which won't lose it's taste after the pizza got cold and you reheated it. High quality pizza on the other hand is made with proper ingredients and spices and the like. Which lose their flavour after a while, since they're not fresh any more.

Good points. Also I think the ingredients matter too, because some natural foods are subjectively good if not better when reheated, like spaghetti.

Pallindromemordnillap:
I came into this thread with the expectation of literal rather than metaphorical pizza. I feel deceived

Well both been discussed and more ;)

hanselthecaretaker:
Good points. Also I think the ingredients matter too, because some natural foods are subjectively good if not better when reheated, like spaghetti.

True, reheated pasta is better for you. Or rather, pasta that has cooled down is better for you, reheating it just makes it warm again. :P But I don't think reheated pasta tastes better. To me, it still tastes the best when you first made it.

The thing is, most people don't care. There were whistle blowers since Oblivions Horse armor ( this is the earliest i can remember), people just really don't care. Either they will buy the games and not spend a dime or buy the game and pick which shit is worth the money. The few that do care are not influencial enough to make a difference. And the even fewer that are influencial don't reach enough people for it to matter.

So it's utterly pointless. Everything you said, while correct, is already well known by anyone who purchases games for themselves (I.E: grandmas birthday Gifts). The reality is that they don't care. And then the people ( like myself) who has been against these practices for close to a decade are too old and tired to keep ringing the alarm that fall on deaf ears. Personally i can't be arsed to care anymore, the war has been lost. I just eat my shit covered pizza and hope it was good enough to sustain me until i order the next one.

rembrandtqeinstein:
Path of Exile

doesn't that also have shit on it though? like always online, item store, and loot boxes?

This is why I rarely buy games right when they come out. Why buy a game that is incomplete when I can get the full, GOTY edition with all the extra crap on sale six months later?

Lufia Erim:
The thing is, most people don't care. There were whistle blowers since Oblivions Horse armor ( this is the earliest i can remember), people just really don't care. Either they will buy the games and not spend a dime or buy the game and pick which shit is worth the money. The few that do care are not influencial enough to make a difference. And the even fewer that are influencial don't reach enough people for it to matter.

So it's utterly pointless. Everything you said, while correct, is already well known by anyone who purchases games for themselves (I.E: grandmas birthday Gifts). The reality is that they don't care. And then the people ( like myself) who has been against these practices for close to a decade are too old and tired to keep ringing the alarm that fall on deaf ears. Personally i can't be arsed to care anymore, the war has been lost. I just eat my shit covered pizza and hope it was good enough to sustain me until i order the next one.

I understand where you are coming from but such attitude is really close to apathy and you shouldn't let that get you down like that. Ofcourse doesn't change the fact that what you brought up is true. People kept on ignoring the turd and eating around. Crap pile kept on growing.
From my point of view, everything has its boiling point, a break point if you please and last year crapping on anything and everything went from selctive experiments to pushing boundries of inavoidable.
Yes, likely, others will just try to carefully eat around and grasp at excuses to not lose every last shred of self respect they might have had or just gobble down the shit pretending it's awsome and other should do that too.
Myself, at this point I am for legislative ban on selling people crap and will support any motion going that way. EU probably will lead the way since they itch to regulate pretty much anything.

Chewster:
This is why I rarely buy games right when they come out. Why buy a game that is incomplete when I can get the full, GOTY edition with all the extra crap on sale six months later?

Point is, why buy it at all? It's full of shit. You support companies that treat you like garbage and sell you crap.
You're giving them $5 instead of $50 or $500? At that point they will take that off your hands with a laugh and push you down to your fill of crap.
They already got all of the money they wanted out of it and are half way towards next ploy. Possibility to get bonus from you is just them laughing in your face. Literally taking the bill with badly concealed surprise how on earth you didn't figure out to just pirate the damn thing already.
Mind you I think you should neither pirate or buy it. Just be aloof. Plenty of crapless pizza available ;)

Jamcie Kerbizz:

Chewster:
This is why I rarely buy games right when they come out. Why buy a game that is incomplete when I can get the full, GOTY edition with all the extra crap on sale six months later?

Point is, why buy it at all? It's full of shit. You support companies that treat you like garbage and sell you crap.
You're giving them $5 instead of $50 or $500? At that point they will take that off your hands with a laugh and push you down to your fill of crap.
They already got all of the money they wanted out of it and are half way towards next ploy. Possibility to get bonus from you is just them laughing in your face. Literally taking the bill with badly concealed surprise how on earth you didn't figure out to just pirate the damn thing already.
Mind you I think you should neither pirate or buy it. Just be aloof. Plenty of crapless pizza available ;)

I certainly dislike micro transactions as much as the next fella but was more referring to all the extras that are spread out over a game's release. Day one stuff and DLC and that noise. But yes, micro transactions can go to hell and stay there.

And yes, if they realized people wete doing that instead of lapping up games as soon as they were out, buying preorders etc. of course they would stop all this madness. They'd have to becauuse they wouldn't be making any money initially from a game's release. They only get away with what we let them.

Chewster:

I certainly dislike micro transactions as much as the next fella but was more referring to all the extras that are spread out over a game's release. Day one stuff and DLC and that noise. But yes, micro transactions can go to hell and stay there.

And yes, if they realized people wete doing that instead of lapping up games as soon as they were out, buying preorders etc. of course they would stop all this madness. They'd have to becauuse they wouldn't be making any money initially from a game's release. They only get away with what we let them.

You're right.

Also I had an afterthought about the whole premise of me starting this thread.
I don't mock or condemn people who still get that figurative pizza despite what's being catered with it. Neither see them as some sort of deplorables, that undermine the good fight etc. - insert any zelous rhetoric, which fanatics use to dehumanise non-believers.

It is ment to be more of self deprecating humour, commentary of rather sad recent events surrounding actual gaming, all made in form of less obvious discussion about the topic (at least on the cover) so it wouldn't actually be jumped by overzealous people immediately (there's someone already on another thread having a meltdown over people being upset about predatory practices in monetizing games)

...and I guess I was hungry and had a pizza in mind too :P

hanselthecaretaker:

Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I?ve had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I?d rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

Re-heating pizza in the oven works like 100x better than the microwave.

Phoenixmgs:

hanselthecaretaker:

Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I?ve had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I?d rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

Re-heating pizza in the oven works like 100x better than the microwave.

True to that but the OP point still holds true as well. Sometimes the oven makes the crust too crusty though too. Olive oil helps but fresh is only fresh once.

Chewster:
I certainly dislike micro transactions as much as the next fella but was more referring to all the extras that are spread out over a game's release. Day one stuff and DLC and that noise. But yes, micro transactions can go to hell and stay there.

And yes, if they realized people wete doing that instead of lapping up games as soon as they were out, buying preorders etc. of course they would stop all this madness. They'd have to becauuse they wouldn't be making any money initially from a game's release. They only get away with what we let them.

You're right. If most people waited at least a week or two before buying that new shiny game, publishers would start to panic very quickly. As that's how they rate the success of a game these days. How much it sells in the first week or two. Of course it would be even better if people didn't buy games with 'shit' in them at all, or maybe at a huge discount a few months later. But that won't ever happen...too many people making excuses for why the shit isn't bad and buying the new shiny anyway because they can't control their impulses.

On that note, I wonder how things would go without hype culture. As I bet hype is one of the major reasons many people can't resist buying games with shit in them.

Bombiz:

rembrandtqeinstein:
Path of Exile

doesn't that also have shit on it though? like always online, item store, and loot boxes?

It is always online, so far that hasn't been a drawback. It has an item store that sells cosmetics and inventory space but in my time playing it the marketing load is as unobtrusive as you could possibly want. A small icon (no words) indicating you could get more space on your inventory screens and a static banner on the title screen with links to the cosmetic store.

No loot boxes as far as I can tell or if they have it the marketing is so minimal that I'm not aware of it.

The game is free as in beer and acknowledging that the developers need to pay for rent and food it is a pretty agreeable compromise.

The reason I'm against always online in D3 and not in this game is because D3 charges you for the box AND then sticks you with the always online bullshit. PoE is always online but the whole game is free, not just a marketing-laden demo. I agree with you PoE would be better if there was a "fully single player/lan" mode but I'm willing to compromise in this case.

rembrandtqeinstein:

Bombiz:

rembrandtqeinstein:
Path of Exile

doesn't that also have shit on it though? like always online, item store, and loot boxes?

It is always online, so far that hasn't been a drawback.

where you their before they fixed the horrendous lag? cause it used to rubber band a lot

no loot boxes

eh. they have them but it's very minimal. example: you can buy the fire box and get 5 micro transactions that relate to fire

The reason I'm against always online in D3 and not in this game is because D3 charges you for the box AND then sticks you with the always online bullshit. PoE is always online but the whole game is free, not just a marketing-laden demo. I agree with you PoE would be better if there was a "fully single player/lan" mode but I'm willing to compromise in this case.

this is where you and I differ. if it's bad for a full priced title then it's bad all around. even if it's free.

Jamcie Kerbizz:

Lufia Erim:
The thing is, most people don't care. There were whistle blowers since Oblivions Horse armor ( this is the earliest i can remember), people just really don't care. Either they will buy the games and not spend a dime or buy the game and pick which shit is worth the money. The few that do care are not influencial enough to make a difference. And the even fewer that are influencial don't reach enough people for it to matter.

So it's utterly pointless. Everything you said, while correct, is already well known by anyone who purchases games for themselves (I.E: grandmas birthday Gifts). The reality is that they don't care. And then the people ( like myself) who has been against these practices for close to a decade are too old and tired to keep ringing the alarm that fall on deaf ears. Personally i can't be arsed to care anymore, the war has been lost. I just eat my shit covered pizza and hope it was good enough to sustain me until i order the next one.

I understand where you are coming from but such attitude is really close to apathy and you shouldn't let that get you down like that. Ofcourse doesn't change the fact that what you brought up is true. People kept on ignoring the turd and eating around. Crap pile kept on growing.
From my point of view, everything has its boiling point, a break point if you please and last year crapping on anything and everything went from selctive experiments to pushing boundries of inavoidable.
Yes, likely, others will just try to carefully eat around and grasp at excuses to not lose every last shred of self respect they might have had or just gobble down the shit pretending it's awsome and other should do that too.
Myself, at this point I am for legislative ban on selling people crap and will support any motion going that way. EU probably will lead the way since they itch to regulate pretty much anything.

I guess i'm just getting old. I don't have it in me to fight anymore. I can barely be bothered to comment on forums, discussions, debates. 10 years ago though, i would have been the first to run through the door to rally the troops. Now a days? You're lucky to see me wag my finger at things within the gaming community i disagree with. The whole Dlc, disc locked content, micro transaction, corruption etc... has taken it's toll. To tired to continue swiming against the current. I'm ready to just let it take me under. The fight is now in the hands in the future generation of gamers.

Which isn't a comforting thought. Because what we have now is what they will grow up with. It's all they are going to know. So to them it's going to be normal. And it will just get worst.

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