There's a huge pile of crap on pizza I bought...

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*Shrug* As I've said .....many....many times, the problem is that gamers have all the self-control of heroin addicts. People like to say it isn't true but it is. Sure, sometimes the dealer has to lighten up slightly to reel their market back in but, in the end, almost of all of the addicts will keep coming back.

This discussion has been going on since horse armor (Funny story: Back then, Gamespot did a poll asking what is the worst trend in gaming. Instead of picking the logical choice of "DLC", short-sighted gamers voted in "bad console launches" as the worst.) and it isn't going away. It is also not going to get better because gamers are going to continue to need their "fix" and they will endure any amount of abuse to get it.

sanquin:

On that note, I wonder how things would go without hype culture. As I bet hype is one of the major reasons many people can't resist buying games with shit in them.

This, I think, is the question to be asking. Viral marketing and social media are such that it seems like things get blown out of proportion. Just as a recent example, yesterday I was watching the new Red Dead Redemption 2 trailer and I was curious who the voice actor for the main guy is, because he sounds oddly familiar. So I go searching, end up on the RDR Reddit and people are practically orgasming over the dude's voice-over in the trailer. Actual quotes about a game we barely have any info on: "Artur Morgan Voice Acting is unbelievable. GODLY ROCKSTAR" and "Thank you rockstar. i think i will also buy PS4 Pro, just for this game. There better be a bundle available day-one," and possibly my favorite, "I'm literally a film fanatic and I completely agree. I feel there's a Henry Fonda like charm from his character Frank in 'Once Upon a Time in the West' with Arthur Morgan." Really? From what, six lines of fucking dialogue? Are you kidding me?

And I get it. Red Dead Redemption was an excellent game and the sequel will probably be excellent too but trailers are cut in such a way as to get you to want to consume the media. It's an advertisement, it's meant to suck you in. Godly Rockstar? Come the fuck on.

Honestly, we do this to ourselves.

You could wait and get the pizza for 92%+ off it's original price. Nearly getting the pizza at the price it should have been if it was going to include all of this shit. Free.

Bombiz:

this is where you and I differ. if it's bad for a full priced title then it's bad all around. even if it's free.

How's a free game supposed to make money if everything is free?

Captain Marvelous:
How's a free game supposed to make money if everything is free?

I agree. An f2p game needs to make money somehow. It's understandable that they would have micro transactions or other such things. Sure it's still bad when the f2p game becomes pay to win or at least gives paying customers so many advantages that it's pointless to play the game without paying. But you can't expect professionally made games to be fully free.

Maybe its because I don't buy games at MSRP, are season passes that bad? Im from the states, some of things I say might not effect you but don't buy games at full price at launch. Black Friday is in a month and the week after Christmas has better discounts. Most games get a 10-20 dollar discount and digital currencies usually go on sale for a 10-20% discount.

If you are a console gamer in the states buy gamer's club unlocked. For 30 bucks you get 20% off of all new games, 10% off of used games. Also you 20% off of Amiibo if you want to deal with that shit show. There is also shittier version of gamers club unlocked, Amazon prime, which has 20% off of New releases.

Also wait a year and get the game of the year edition. Granted if its a online shooter, you want to buy that at the release that way you don't get Destroyed by better players and sometimes online communities die off a year later.

sanquin:

On that note, I wonder how things would go without hype culture. As I bet hype is one of the major reasons many people can't resist buying games with shit in them.

That's a solid point.
I find the whole social media spinning, not just in this particular case but in general, being a white noise that gradually exhaust people into not having any self-reflecting thought of their own. What marketing and the whole 'hype train campaigns' have to do is to add in the not-so-subconcious, dominant opinion about the thing they sell, individual concedes and defaults to.

Without a hype culture? It would be 'a silence' which would push individual to question why would they add 'that' to my pizza in the first place. If only out of sheer bewilderment.
Definately would stop the conveyor belt of repeating 'popular' opinions of the 'friends' and 'groups I'm in'. Because hey, no ammo. Want to have an opinion, think and formulate one. You have one? Nobody will instantly pump in dopamine - no circle jerk feedback.

Most gamers don't go to critical forums and reddit. We are a small minority. That is the truth, and even on reddit I saw someone who was pro-preorder being accused of being either a game dev, or a marketing specialist, and they didn't deny it. Again people will accept bullshit, and there is nothing we can do about short of forcing everyone to take a consumer protection class in grade school.

Updated the OP with EA reasoning to eat around shit.
They only took a dump in your pizza to intil pride in you!

hanselthecaretaker:
It?s kinda human nature to not care much unless there is an immediate threat. Most people run off the bare necessities of consciousness, so expecting much to change prior to all hell breaking loose is wishful thinking. Just look at how most of society treats each other unless there?s some big disaster and life threatening peril.

In short, until the threats to one?s well being are made great enough, there won?t be enough majority consensus to change, unless the publisher miraculously has a change of heart. Some publishers are also better than others of course.

Speaking of pizza, does anyone else find an inverse relationship between quality of pizza and tastiness when reheated? I?ve had a wide range of pizzas and the better quality ingredients, the more I?d rather just eat the leftovers cold. Of course, this could also depend on what ingredients it contains, and possibly the method of reheating.

Exactly. Whole "frog in boiling water" analogy. People are easily deceived. Publishers such as EA and Ubisoft slowly are getting away with more and more, and people who buy their games continuously are allowing them to get away with it. All that they care about is money, so until gamers grow a brain, it'll continue to happen.

Bombiz:
this is where you and I differ. if it's bad for a full priced title then it's bad all around. even if it's free.

So what would you have them do... literally make a completely free game with no way by which they could obtain revenue? Perhaps they could have just ads, but it's still an unrealistic (and unfair) expectation.

Mad World:

Bombiz:
this is where you and I differ. if it's bad for a full priced title then it's bad all around. even if it's free.

So what would you have them do... literally make a completely free game with no way by which they could obtain revenue? Perhaps they could have just ads, but it's still an unrealistic (and unfair) expectation.

Well, if you want to make a quality free-to-play game, you have to leave the core gameplay loop out of your monetizations. In a PvE or co-op game, its not hard to do this. You can sell actual XP or guns or whatever, because while some folks will be artifically better, its not a detriment to the gameplay of others (other then in a co-op situation, possibly boring people a bit as the OP guy with 1000 dollars of extra gear obliterates everything).

If you make a Competitive VS free-to-play game, the core gameplay loop includes a leveled playing field, so you have to leave competitive advantages out of your monetizations.

Mad World:

Bombiz:
this is where you and I differ. if it's bad for a full priced title then it's bad all around. even if it's free.

So what would you have them do... literally make a completely free game with no way by which they could obtain revenue? Perhaps they could have just ads, but it's still an unrealistic (and unfair) expectation.

Nobody, literally nobody mature expects games to be free. Even f2p model.
Point is to have a quantifiable price attached to it. Up front.

Jamcie Kerbizz:
Point is to have a quantifiable price attached to it. Up front.

But then it's not "F2P." It would be priced in the same way that games traditionally are, defeating the entire purpose of this convo.

Not all people would agree that the "free-to-play" model shouldn't exist.

Mad World:

Jamcie Kerbizz:
Point is to have a quantifiable price attached to it. Up front.

But then it's not "F2P." It would be priced in the same way that games traditionally are, defeating the entire purpose of this convo.

Not all people would agree that the "free-to-play" model shouldn't exist.

You can have f2p model with quantifiable prices on things. Look at i.e. LoL prior to chests/keys BS. You have a set monetary price attached to things. There's just no initial fee to start playing nor there is any subscription fee (different models).

Jamcie Kerbizz:
Nobody, literally nobody mature expects games to be free. Even f2p model.
Point is to have a quantifiable price attached to it. Up front.

Yeah - you'd think so.

Jamcie Kerbizz:
You can have f2p model with quantifiable prices on things. Look at i.e. LoL prior to chests/keys BS. You have a set monetary price attached to things. There's just no initial fee to start playing nor there is any subscription fee (different models).

I see. By "up front," I thought that you were referring to an initial "box" price.

The pizza analogy doesn't really work, what you have to realize is that a lot of the mainstream audience doesn't see it as "crap" on their pizza, they are less picky in their entertainment, for a variety of reasons, like the difference between a pizza enthusiast that really enjoys only specific quality ingredients or a specific style like New york or deep dish and tracks the popular pizza trends and history, and the people that don't really give a shit where they get their pizza they just want it cheap and/or fast. They aren't "eating around" anything, to a lot of people it's all just pizza.

Things like item shops/microtransactions/ day one DLC aren't shit to them, they are nonexistent or just not considered at all, like the poor quality ingredients of your average Pizza hut or gas station pizza, to the mainstream audience that just buys the usual roulette of sports games and AAA titles every year, all they want is the quick and dirty experience and the rest is just noise. To sports games fans they either ignore the pay to win mode or embrace it as a TCG style thing. Why would the mainstream audience care about day 1 DLC? It's always just a bunch of useless items or one shitty mission, to the mainstream audience its absence is not missed. Item shops are either not considered or embraced, microtransactions are rampant in phone games so now its normalized.

Loot boxes? Gambling? As someone that's spent most of his life around casinos, that stuff is accepted because gambling feels fucking good, like the infamous skinner box experiments, or even the frenzy of older randomized loot games like Diablo 2, people are suckers for hitting that randomized reward button, and will make sacrifices to do so. Just now instead of Diablo fanatics failing out of school because they spent 500 hours looking for a Stone of Jordan, it's Overwatch fanatics dropping hundreds of dollars to try and get every legendary skin.

The loot box situation is one that is most likely to see some form of actual government regulation, TCG's flew under the radar by being smaller and having a reselling market that let you bypass the random chance, the current video game loot boxes are orders of magnitude more profitable, with a much bigger market.

It's not people tolerating shit on their pizza, its that most people don't care enough if their pizza comes from a gas station or if it comes from a high end gourmet shop, as long as they get their pizza. There is a line, and with things like Battlefront 2, we may actually be close to that line, as far as loot boxes go at least, the rest will likely be tolerated by the market for a long time to come, if nothing else, AAA industries are good at tiptoeing the line without actually crossing it.

I find that people who won't buy loot boxes in games are often the biggest defenders of their presence, because they are going to get free DLC because of them.

Back when Mass Effect 3 was released people on one forum I visit were excited because EA were giving away the map packs for the horde mode in the game. I mentioned then that EA wasn't giving away this stuff out of the goodness of their hearts but that they were making a lot of money from the crates in the game.

The overwhelming response I got boiled down to "I don't care because I'm getting free stuff."

@EternallyBored I was refering to people who do realise what is going on but still go on and 'eat around'. I do realise that there is a considerable number of people who just don't care either way but that's a whole different subject.
You are right though that it is a wider matter of consumers not putting in much thought what they consume and how. In that light 'gaming' sort of fell victim to its success, becoming more popular and appealing to larger but also less picky audience, big corporations (publishers) can cater to.

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