Anyone get the hate for Skyrim?

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Because i don't get it.

They say the dungeons are easy,but seems they forgot about the Dwemer dungeons that have the tonal lock that if you don't hit the right ones a dwarven thing will start attacking,or the dungeons that have the switches unmarked. There is one dungeon in the Galdur amulet quest that has switches unmarked.

Because it lacks any of the Gameplay depth and features of older games like Daggerfall and Morrowind.

In Daggerfall, you can have your own Pirate Ship.

As far as I know there are no pillar puzzles you can't find the combination to. They're not always as obvious, but they are there. Also, the one tonal lock I found was pretty easy. Sure, some enemies spawned twice, but that was just more exp for me.

Aside from that, having a few exceptions doesn't make the entire game hard. Overall the game is way too easy. To the point that I can't see myself playing any more without a combat mod like Wildcat which makes combat more interesting and challenging. I also intentionally limit my vision a lot by using a mod that makes caves actually dark. As in, almost unable to see in front of you dark.

I don't consider Vanilla Skyrim a bad game. I don't hate it at all. In fact I really like it. But vanilla is 'a bit above average' best. It's when you start to mod the game that it becomes 'good' to 'great'.

I feel the hate (in the online gaming community) comes largely from 2 factors. The first is that a significant number of gameplay features are in that sweet zone of "not bad" to "decent" which is where adjectives like bland and boring can come from; this is almost worse for a game than being a combination of really good and really bad elements. The second is the modding aspect of both Skyrim and the previous ES titles. It's a lot easier to see the game as bad when your inherent expectations are filtered through the wealth of additional content and improvements that such an open and active modding scene has to offer.

A lot of people critical of Skyrim dungeons are forgetting the the ones in Oblivion and Morrowind were kinda crap.

Oblivion had caves and glowey red hellscapes while Morrowind dungeons were 2 or 3 rooms with a total of 2 enemies!

Daggerfall was really the only one that was all about the dungeon crawl.

Mostly all the different releases. It was a greatly fun game, and I love it! Who doesn't want to hack and slash and stab and break and burn and main and burn and craft and enchant!

Then again I really enjoy the settlement building in Fallout 4, so maybe I'm just an odd duck

Well, I dont really think there is alot of hate for Skyrim to begin with. There is alot of criticism for still lacking alot of what Morrowind had that was awesome that -should- have been expanded on rather than dropped by Oblivion, but it is still better than most RPGs and better than Oblivion.

And then there is more just hate for Bethesda, some of it valid, some of it not. I dont actually see alot of any real hate for the game itself though.

jademunky:
A lot of people critical of Skyrim dungeons are forgetting the the ones in Oblivion and Morrowind were kinda crap.

Oblivion had caves and glowey red hellscapes while Morrowind dungeons were 2 or 3 rooms with a total of 2 enemies!

Dagger fall was really the only one that was all about the dungeon crawl.

I liked that Morrowind had tiny dungeons. Not every 'dungeon' should be some massive labyrinth. Many in Morrowind were really just family tombs lost to time. I actually often avoid quests that go into dungeons in Skyrim cause of how friggen looooooong they are. The game knows it too which is why they almost always have a back exit or wrap around.

Skyrim really is alot like Daggerfall. Made such a big deal with 'radiant quests' in Skyrim when Daggerfall already did it. Though again, Daggerfall suffers from unpleasantly big mazes, and an impossible to read map. I wont lie, I often cheat to leave dungeons in Daggerfall cause how easy it is to get lost forever in them.

Variety is the spice of life.

I don't play Skyrim, so I must be considered neutral on the matter.

jademunky:
A lot of people critical of Skyrim dungeons are forgetting the the ones in Oblivion and Morrowind were kinda crap.

Oblivion had caves and glowey red hellscapes while Morrowind dungeons were 2 or 3 rooms with a total of 2 enemies!

Dagger fall was really the only one that was all about the dungeon crawl.

Yeah,i have played Oblivion on my Xbox 360 and most of the dungeons seemed bad,plus the game seemed to have ugly graphics.

jademunky:
Morrowind dungeons were 2 or 3 rooms with a total of 2 enemies!

I'll have to disagree there; I recall many of Morrowind's dungeons being fairly expansive and varied, and given the lack of enemy and loot scaling, they posed actual threats with the promise of real reward. Also, with the lack of the hand-holdy mini map, exploration actually felt like exploration and not just a point-to-point progression of a tired plot. "Go on this quest for the ancient Sword of Castration; no one has seen it for a thousand years, but it's in those ruins right over there with the neon yellow arrow pointing to it." Then again, I'm biased and TES hasn't met my expectations since Morrowind.

OT, while I don't hate Skyrim seeing it basically as a slightly better Oblivion making it still worse than Morrowind (see above,) the biggest let down for me were the dragons. Being the mythical badass "Dragonborn," I expected the dragons to be something worth being born from, but between scaling (again, see above) and the fact that they're literally everywhere after a certain point in the story, they became just kinda meh. I was hoping dragons would be constant "OH SHIT!!" epic moments throughout the game, but they quickly became "ah, shit; again?" bland moments which kinda shit on the whole premise of the game for me.

I can't say the difficulty is really the forefront of any criticisms I have of Skyrim, or really any I hear a lot. And when it is, its not the dungeons, its usually the Dragons being pathetic pushovers for such a widely hyped dangerous foes or the breaks with difficulty progression due to the scaling system (You either become a living god if you focus on combat skills, or everything outpowers you insanely if you focused non-combat-optimal skills).

Bugs all over the place, the gibberish procedural quest systems, the dissonance of faction requirements, and the non-dynamic world that ignores everything you do (except for the omniscient guard commentary), a lack of enemy variety, awful voice acting, gutted magic system, boring progression. Such are the complaints that usually come way before the critique of puzzle mechanics.

Starts out with you under powered. you could be killed by a crab. Gameplay was too boring for too long BUT!

I don't know about the console versions but a million mods came out for the PC version. Those mods made the game one of the most enjoyable ever. Give yourself everything? Make the moon look like the Death Star? Your horse like a 1970 oldsmobile? It was all there. And a blast.

But on console without mods? I cannot imagine playing it.

Avnger:
The second is the modding aspect of both Skyrim and the previous ES titles.

I'd imagine there's plenty of people - including myself - that would count the modding community as a positive aspect of Skyrim rather than a negative. To be fair, Bethesda is trying to fuck that over with their new paid mods scheme....ahem...."Creator's Club" or whatever the fuck it's called.

Point is that Skyrim is a big ol' sandbox that - at the moment - you're free to bring all the toys you want to play with in it. I don't think you can say "Well without mods, Skyrim is crap" considering that without Skyrim itself, those fun mods that make the game good wouldn't even exist.

I'll grant you that Vanilla Skyrim is pretty "meh", I remember a lot of people not liking the progression system in particular. The first time I got Skyrim was on the 360. I enjoyed it well enough to make it through one playthrough...but then I had no desire to play through it again. Finally got myself a gaming computer, picked up Skyrim again because I had heard it's amazing on PC (thanks to mods), and sure enough: mods breathed new life into the game. Now I rarely even finish a full playthrough before wanting to start a new game with a plethora of new mods that I want to play with. Wouldn't be able to enjoy the creativity of the modders and appreciate all the hard work they put into making fun mods without the base game to actually play them with, though.

OT: From what I recall, and I mentioned an aspect of this in the previous section of my post, most people that criticized the game when it came out didn't like how the systems had been watered down. Again, look at the lvling system...no longer were you to specialize in a class you picked or designed (that was one of my favorite things about Oblivion: being about to just make your own class by picking what skills you wanted), instead you're just a jack of all trades, fully capable of becoming whatever you wanted and - if you were willing to put in the hours grinding - become a master of literally everything. Combat was too easy and simplified except on the hardest difficulties, the epicness of a dragon fight quickly lost its majesty as you'd soon become too OP for them to be a threat (which made them more akin to troublesome pests rather than fearsome monsters), and yeah: as other's have pointed out the game was just watered down and too easy in general.

In terms of why it gets hate these days, the above reasons still hold true, but people are getting annoyed that it's become the new Doom. For those of us that grew up in the 90's, there was a running joke of "Can it run Doom?" Because Doom had been ported onto damn near everything. No joke: in high school I had Doom on my frickin' calculator. These days you can replace Doom with Skyrim, because Skyrim has been released on damn near everything. A few months ago when they confirmed that Skyrim was going to be coming to the Switch, Total Biscuit described a way that he could literally run Skyrim on his refrigerator (stream it from PC to tablet that has a blue tooth connection to a high tech fridge). It just keeps coming out over and over and over again...and as pointed out in a recent Jimquisition: despite the fact that Skyrim has been rereleased a billion times, Bethesda has done jack shit to fix the damn thing.

There's still game breaking bugs in Skyrim that have been around since it's launch, and Bethesda has done nothing about them. When they port Skyrim, they effectively just highlight all the files, hit ctrl+c, open up the Port To Switch folder, then hit ctrl+v.

For a game that's been rereleased, remastered, ported, and rereleased again...you'd think they could take another look at some of the crap still lingering in the game and polish it out. But they don't. Why? Because fuck it, that's why! They're still gonna get their $60 for a 6 year old game, so why bother?

It's boring, don't know what else to say

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I got 30 hours in it but that's only because I've tried to get in to it about 10 times but I just end up getting bored out of my mind.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
It's boring, don't know what else to say

image

I got 30 hours in it but that's only because I've tried to get in to it about 10 times but I just end up getting bored out of my mind.

I have about 55 minutes or so on it on the nintendo switch

So I'm stated playing Divinity: Original Sin 2. It's a great example of what happens when you dont have scaling in your game. It negatively impacts your exploration. I also rememember in Fallout 4 delibrately going back through dungeons becuase they were a fun challenge. Having scaling has negatives and positves.

The Witcher 3 is another example of exploration done bad. For similar reasons. The best way to describe it, that I've heard, is that you have to play it on the games terms. Skryim is different.

As to Morrowind's dungoens, most of Skyrim dungeons double back on itself to save players time of just walking back through areas they have fought through. It decreases boredom. My biggest complaint about Morrowind, especially compared to Daggerfall, is the amount of time it make you waste. It was a huge backwards step.

Divinity is also a good representation of questing issues. You can accomplish your goals in so many ways, which is great. But there is only one way that gives you the best rewards. Guess what that incentivises? Its probably becuase I started at the hardest mode (without Ironman) and if I miss out on XP, I will evenutally lose the game.

Divinity also emphasises being the nice guy by doing quests but then killing anyone once they are of no worth. This schizophrenic attitude really pulls you out of the experience. I'm all for playing the good or bad guy but this makes no sense. This game has people trying to slove crimes when you steal stuff, why doesnt it try to solve murders? I'm giving up being able to not kill NPCs in Skyrim for this? Its not better.

Maybe old school RPG and new just dont mix. Quite possibly. If you try to play Skyrim like the Witcher, you will have a bad time. And vice versa.

Xprimentyl:

jademunky:
Morrowind dungeons were 2 or 3 rooms with a total of 2 enemies!

I?ll have to disagree there; I recall many of Morrowind?s dungeons being fairly expansive and varied, and given the lack of enemy and loot scaling, they posed actual threats with the promise of real reward. Also, with the lack of the hand-holdy mini map, exploration actually felt like exploration and not just a point-to-point progression of a tired plot. ?Go on this quest for the ancient Sword of Castration; no one has seen it for a thousand years, but it?s in those ruins right over there with the neon yellow arrow pointing to it.? Then again, I?m biased and TES hasn?t met my expectations since Morrowind.

OT, while I don?t hate Skyrim seeing it basically as a slightly better Oblivion making it still worse than Morrowind (see above,) the biggest let down for me were the dragons. Being the mythical badass ?Dragonborn,? I expected the dragons to be something worth being born from, but between scaling (again, see above) and the fact that they?re literally everywhere after a certain point in the story, they became just kinda meh. I was hoping dragons would be constant ?OH SHIT!!? epic moments throughout the game, but they quickly became ?ah, shit; again?? bland moments which kinda shit on the whole premise of the game for me.

Don't get me wrong, Morrowind is by far my favourite Elder Scrolls game and the lack of level scaling was a good part of why. On my first playthrough, I found myself wandering into a cave that revealed itself to be a crypt guarded by an undead spellcaster that proceeded to murder the shit out of me. Seriously, to this day, the sight of a hooded skeleton with it's lower jaw missing is still the scariest video game character ever. So it goes without saying that, after finishing the game's main story, I systematically sought out and killed every one of those fuckers with my Claymore with the added 60 frost damage.

The only dungeons that I recall being remotely large were in the Tribunal expansion but, then again, it has been a long time.

I don't have a lot of complaints with the game itself, it was fine when I played it in 2011. I'm just absolutely sick to death of hearing about it. Jim Sterling said it best in his latest Jimquisition

Saelune:
[quote="jademunky" post="9.1028543.24170838"]Though again, Daggerfall suffers from unpleasantly big mazes, and an impossible to read map.

Just a little too large eh? It occurs to me that I have not even fully explored the intro-dungeon in Daggerfall. Just somehow stumbled my way into the sunlight half-dead. #praisethesun

I have a weird love-hate thing going with Skyrim.

It's undeniably compelling on some level and I still get the occasional urge to play it. Bethesda games do exploration like nobody else. I can wander around the map and reliably find interesting things to poke my nose in. Plus, sneaking around with a knife, a bow and a bunch of poisons can be fun.

On the other hand, it's janky as fuck. The writing is a joke. The animation is another joke with the stiff puppet motions robbing the game of the slightest sense of verisimilitude. Direct combat is a chore that boils down to chipping away at a procession of health bars while chugging the overly plentiful healing items. Stealth is just outright broken. Lastly, while there are a ton of interesting things to find in the world there is also a ton of cookie-cutter chaff. Seen one cave-o-draugr, seen 'em all.

The argument that mods fix the game is rubbish. They can improve the UI and that's about it. There's no non-shit combat mod and no non-shit animation mod. Just a whole lot of gear add-ons, inconsequential graphics fiddling and vaguely creepy waifu bait.

axelthefox:

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
It's boring, don't know what else to say

image

I got 30 hours in it but that's only because I've tried to get in to it about 10 times but I just end up getting bored out of my mind.

I have about 55 minutes or so on it on the nintendo switch

I also bought it at launch 6 years ago.

I don't really get how an RPG can be considered a good game if the gameplay isn't good and the writing isn't good. I couldn't care less about Bethesda RPGs because they fail at the 2 of the most important things for an RPG. From a few videos I've seen on Fallout 4, it barely has any role-playing in it at all.

Samtemdo8:
Because it lacks any of the Gameplay depth and features of older games like Daggerfall and Morrowind.

In Daggerfall, you can have your own Pirate Ship.

Daggerfall also looked like the whole game was made with papier-mache and doesn't have a lot of things Skyrim has and also wasn't nearly as moddable. There's other things too I might have missed but yeah.

Morrowind's combat was actually even more simple than Skyrim's or Oblivion's. Just roll a warrior character and go to ****ing town. And you thought that was simple? Wait 'till you get one of the MANY paralyze-enchanted weapons that pretty much remove all challenge from the game. See, the things is Morrowind had more stats the game could play with over Skyrim which did inherently give it more complexity, but the game falls kinda short on execution.

Here's another thing to consider. People who complain about Skyrim have usually sunk in a ton of hours into the game. And when you sink in a ton of hours into ANY game, the cracks in even the greatest games will begin to show. And so people start thinking the game is bad when in reality they've really just played it half to death. Skyrim is a victim of it's own insanely high replayability.

Probably because it has been done to death. Ported and remastered and HD updated and etc. etc. God Bethesda can we get a new game already?

trunkage:

As to Morrowind's dungoens, most of Skyrim dungeons double back on itself to save players time of just walking back through areas they have fought through. It decreases boredom. My biggest complaint about Morrowind, especially compared to Daggerfall, is the amount of time it make you waste. It was a huge backwards step.

There's a pile of options in Morrowind to instantly teleport yourself prettymuch wherever you want. Most of them listed on the loading screen tips or spouted at you in common dialogue.

Funnily, if you combined the two, you'd end up with drastic shortcuts, cause Morrowind super-jumping, levitating and flying would let you access a lot of those back doors in Skyrim's dungeon design.

What Hate? Seriously what hate for Skyrim. Everyone loves Skyrim. The worst I can find is legitimate exhaustion for getting the same game presented by Bethesda rereleasing the damn thing another f****ing time. Sure there is a good bit of criticism, but nothing that I would really present as hate. Skyrim has a lot of flaws that quite a few are pointing out, but most people still seem to like it despite of those flaws.
So I ask again: What hate?

Phoenixmgs:
I don't really get how an RPG can be considered a good game if the gameplay isn't good and the writing isn't good. I couldn't care less about Bethesda RPGs because they fail at the 2 of the most important things for an RPG. From a few videos I've seen on Fallout 4, it barely has any role-playing in it at all.

Exploration is the third pillar of RPG I think. Every game fails at it, except for TES. You cant light out and go anywhere in the Witcher or Baulder's Gate. You have to follow a path. Another pillar is choices. TES is terrible for choices during quests. Also, letting you be evil and kill NPCs. But they allow you the freedom to play any way you want in other ways and go anywhere you please.

The last pillar I can think of is consequences. I have yet to meet a game that is good at that.

Seth Carter:

trunkage:

As to Morrowind's dungoens, most of Skyrim dungeons double back on itself to save players time of just walking back through areas they have fought through. It decreases boredom. My biggest complaint about Morrowind, especially compared to Daggerfall, is the amount of time it make you waste. It was a huge backwards step.

There's a pile of options in Morrowind to instantly teleport yourself prettymuch wherever you want. Most of them listed on the loading screen tips or spouted at you in common dialogue.

Funnily, if you combined the two, you'd end up with drastic shortcuts, cause Morrowind super-jumping, levitating and flying would let you access a lot of those back doors in Skyrim's dungeon design.

Or blinding speed at the beginning. I understand why they took those things out (to stop the game break so bad) but I think I should have kept it. Teleport is terrible though. Way too fiddly. So limited.

Daggerfall had those spells and fast travel. Both combined is great. (Daggerfall dungeons made levitation a must as you could easily get trapped.)

Its not a bad game, I just don't get why Bethesda is constantly praised for massive amounts of bugs, and no good stories or characters.

Bethesda doesn't seem to grow and evolve, they do the same thing over and over, and they get rewarded for it.

RJ 17:
For a game that's been rereleased, remastered, ported, and rereleased again...you'd think they could take another look at some of the crap still lingering in the game and polish it out. But they don't. Why? Because fuck it, that's why! They're still gonna get their $60 for a 6 year old game, so why bother?

Pretty much this.

Of all the reasons i have to despise Skyrim this one has sailed right up to the forefront to the point where i dont even think things like comparisons to previous games or the lackluster gameplay even matter as much to me any more.

Skyrim has been out for a long time, and it still requires mods to function properly. One might say this is a hallmark of a dedicated community, i say its the hallmark of a developer who doesnt really give a shit.

it's janky, samey, dull and has the depth of a puddle

writing's bad, quest design is mostly bad, the "role playing" part amounts to little more than digital larping, the combat is servicable, but janky, spongy, and has surprisingly little variety in both combat and enemies

it's big and pretty on the surface with nothing under it, this was true back in 2011 too

it is perfect as background for podcasts though, that's the only way I was able to stomach it

trunkage:
Divinity is also a good representation of questing issues. You can accomplish your goals in so many ways, which is great. But there is only one way that gives you the best rewards. Guess what that incentivises? Its probably becuase I started at the hardest mode (without Ironman) and if I miss out on XP, I will evenutally lose the game.

...so what you're saying is that your desire to min-max is somehow the game's fault?

Because it's popular enough.

The questlines are far below the level of quality of Oblivion's. They are far too short, poorly executed, and aren't even in the same ballpark as the Dark Brotherhood from Oblivion. Most of the other quests are less interesting too. Most of the time it's just fetch quests... from drauger tombs. Radiant quest system turned out to be nothing but dull repetition.

It was far too easy to become stupidly overpowered and the combat wasn't that great to begin with. The economy was broken with nothing good to use money on except houses. The writing was poor in general, especially in the in game novels some of which read like bad fanfiction. There was basically no meaningful choice in the game. You could do a quest or not do a quest usually, and neither mattered in the long run.

There were things to like about the game, but after my initial 100 hour playthrough I just couldn't go back. I tried several years after launch with a crapton of mods, but I couldn't think of anything to do and none of the bad quests managed to catch my interest a second time.

And you have to listen to bloody Tino Tonatini voicing every other character!

I could go into more detail, but I've gotta try and catch up on some sleep soon or I'm going to die.

MC1980:

trunkage:
Divinity is also a good representation of questing issues. You can accomplish your goals in so many ways, which is great. But there is only one way that gives you the best rewards. Guess what that incentivises? Its probably becuase I started at the hardest mode (without Ironman) and if I miss out on XP, I will evenutally lose the game.

...so what you're saying is that your desire to min-max is somehow the game's fault?

In so far that mechanics of the game inteferring the story? yeah I do. I am currently now suggesting that anyone who likes challenging combat and/or min/maxing show not concern themselves with Divinity's story. If you do care about story or role-playing, do it on an easier mode. Otherwise, you will not have a good time.

Drathnoxis:
The questlines are far below the level of quality of Oblivion's. They are far too short, poorly executed, and aren't even in the same ballpark as the Dark Brotherhood from Oblivion. Most of the other quests are less interesting too. Most of the time it's just fetch quests... from drauger tombs. Radiant quest system turned out to be nothing but dull repetition.

Go back and play Oblivion. Hell, go back and play Morrowind. Fetch/kill quest galore. Morrowind changed it a bit with 'go talk to someone' which is way worse. Quests in TES have always been terrible from Main Quest down.

But then Witcher is actually the same. You just use your Witcher senses to spice things up. The Witcher spends more time giving you a reason to fetch something, which is what I want more from a TES game

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