Kamiya: "Brainless camera whiners... Over the shoulder cam is fine."

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I must ask... What has Kamiya added of worth to the third person shooter? He hasn't even made any, from what I can see. Forced over the shoulder is boring in a pure shooter. Why the hell would you prefer that over the ability to run and gun with a wide field of view AND have OTS as an OPTION?

Oh, he's probably talking about the new God of War. His taste is worse than I expected. The OTS view didn't do any favors for Hellblade. Boring game. If you wanna be able to fight off enemies on multiple sides, a free camera makes more sense.

Uh... He's just supporting a friend who's directing the RE2 remake. Fans are apparently whining over the fact that the game won't utilize a fixed camera and since he was the RE2 director; he's saying OTS is fine and won't "ruin" the game basically.

This is briliant! It's generally the crowd that adores Kamiya, because he makes the "pure gamers" games, that complain about over-the-shoulder. Good on you Kamiya!

My views on OTS cameras would not be printable here...
It obstructs the view. It grinds the gears of OCD types. It's plain horrible.
A forced dysfunctional camera view is an offense and injustice to Gamers, as is the vapid acceptance of the casual and general gamer to it. Mostly Console gamers, go figure.

Is Kamiya some known developer or what?

Vendor-Lazarus:
My views on OTS cameras would not be printable here...
It obstructs the view. It grinds the gears of OCD types. It's plain horrible.
A forced dysfunctional camera view is an offense and injustice to Gamers, as is the vapid acceptance of the casual and general gamer to it. Mostly Console gamers, go figure.

Is Kamiya some known developer or what?

He directed Resident Evil 2, Bayonetta, Viewtiful Joe, and Okami so I guess he's well known to some degree.
Edit: also directed Devil May Cry.

Don't understand why the bloke is held in such high regard. Sure, Resident Evil 2 was fantastic when it came out but that is now 20 years ago. DMC and Viewtiful Joe were aight but didn't like any of his other games. I do agree however that over-the-shoulder is fine espescially with Resident Evil games and their slower pace.

Resident Evil 2 Remastered must be Fixed Camara, fuck over the shoulder, now the police station will be less memorable.

The only reason I still play it is just to see G William Birkin being the scariest resident evil monster in the history of the frainchise.

stroopwafel:
Don't understand why the bloke is held in such high regard. Sure, Resident Evil 2 was fantastic when it came out but that is now 20 years ago. DMC and Viewtiful Joe were aight but didn't like any of his other games. I do agree however that over-the-shoulder is fine espescially with Resident Evil games and their slower pace.

No its just gonna make killing Zombies easier, taking away any sort of intimidation of them.

Zetatrain:

Vendor-Lazarus:
My views on OTS cameras would not be printable here...
It obstructs the view. It grinds the gears of OCD types. It's plain horrible.
A forced dysfunctional camera view is an offense and injustice to Gamers, as is the vapid acceptance of the casual and general gamer to it. Mostly Console gamers, go figure.

Is Kamiya some known developer or what?

He directed Resident Evil 2, Bayonetta, Viewtiful Joe, and Okami so I guess he's well known to some degree.

Kind of forgetting Devil May Cry.

I will say that once I started following his Twitter I was surprised how... blunt he tends to be at all times.

I've never had much of an issue with OTS. Though I do hope they ditch the laser sight and make a nice simple, but visible targeting reticle.

Samtemdo8:
Resident Evil 2 Remastered must be Fixed Camara, fuck over the shoulder, now the police station will be less memorable.

There are better ways to make them intimidating. As a kid I accepted the fixed camera angles, but once you spend more than an hour in the universe, you quickly realise that the difficulty it provides is an illusion. I love Resident Evil, always have and always will, but I should be able to see what my character sees and react accordingly.
You argue that it makes killing zombies easier, but the most efficient ways to play the fixed camera, tank control titles of yore has always been to wall hug and avoid killing zombies, a plan that works flawlessly in pretty much every game. Even on the highest difficulty, Resident Evil has been a game of stockpiling for boss fights and dodging the peons.

If they really want to make the zombies intimidating, the threat needs to come from managing supplies vs enemy count. Low availability for ammo and healing items coupled with larger numbers zombies with unpredictable movement patterns. Every early stage encounter should make you question whether you need to use your handgun. Whether you should heal now or wait until you're more seriously hurt. If this pack of zombies is shotgun worthy, or if there are Hunters beyond that are more deserving of it.

Fixed camera has never been integral to the experience, even if you play it 'properly' and actually use your guns; the real threat has always been running out of ammo or herbs. But there has never been a logical reason for Leon or Claire to not be able to aim at a B.O.W. at the other end of a hallway just because the player can't see them. That being said, all of this is just my opinion.

stroopwafel:
Don't understand why the bloke is held in such high regard.

Let's see... I played Okami, Bayonetta, the Resident Evil remake and Devil May Cry. They were all good, but not that good. Actually, I didn't even like the original Devil May Cry. Devil May Cry 3, directed by Itsuno, was better.

Vendor-Lazarus:
My views on OTS cameras would not be printable here...
It obstructs the view. It grinds the gears of OCD types. It's plain horrible.
A forced dysfunctional camera view is an offense and injustice to Gamers, as is the vapid acceptance of the casual and general gamer to it. Mostly Console gamers, go figure.

Yup. It's right for certain horror games, I think, but not much else.

Samtemdo8:
Resident Evil 2 Remastered must be Fixed Camara, fuck over the shoulder, now the police station will be less memorable.

Um...how?

Samtemdo8:

The only reason I still play it is just to see G William Birkin being the scariest resident evil monster in the history of the frainchise.

Cough*Nemesis*Cough

(And to be frank, Birkin was never that scary anyway.)

Samtemdo8:

No its just gonna make killing Zombies easier, taking away any sort of intimidation of them.

Because killing zombies was so hard in RE2. :P

And to be frank, OTS would make it harder, since you wouldn't have a lock on function, and it would likely factor in body vulnerability ala RE4, or heck, even Dead Aim before it.

Yeah the fixed cameras were just a necessity back then due to limitations on the technology (also, artists don't have to draw 100% of the room that way). Any remake that stuck to this design is going to just look and feel antiquated and clunky.

I don't know much about this Kamiya guy but if he made Bayonetta, RE2, the good Devil-May-Cry and frikkin Okami, then I think I'll take his word over fanboys on twitter.

Tank-style controls and fixed cameras are dead and need to stay that way. Video games need to be playable first- bullshit deaths because I got ambushed around a corner that the character should have damn well been able to see around are garbage.

jademunky:
I don't know much about this Kamiya guy but if he made Bayonetta, RE2, the good Devil-May-Cry and frikkin Okami, then I think I'll take his word over fanboys on twitter.

No no he made the original Devil May Cry. Hideaki Itsuno was responsible for the good DMC games. And Dragons Dogma. And something else that will probably be revealed this year.

Azure-Supernova:
I've never had much of an issue with OTS. Though I do hope they ditch the laser sight and make a nice simple, but visible targeting reticle.

Samtemdo8:
Resident Evil 2 Remastered must be Fixed Camara, fuck over the shoulder, now the police station will be less memorable.

There are better ways to make them intimidating. As a kid I accepted the fixed camera angles, but once you spend more than an hour in the universe, you quickly realise that the difficulty it provides is an illusion. I love Resident Evil, always have and always will, but I should be able to see what my character sees and react accordingly.
You argue that it makes killing zombies easier, but the most efficient ways to play the fixed camera, tank control titles of yore has always been to wall hug and avoid killing zombies, a plan that works flawlessly in pretty much every game. Even on the highest difficulty, Resident Evil has been a game of stockpiling for boss fights and dodging the peons.

If they really want to make the zombies intimidating, the threat needs to come from managing supplies vs enemy count. Low availability for ammo and healing items coupled with larger numbers zombies with unpredictable movement patterns. Every early stage encounter should make you question whether you need to use your handgun. Whether you should heal now or wait until you're more seriously hurt. If this pack of zombies is shotgun worthy, or if there are Hunters beyond that are more deserving of it.

Fixed camera has never been integral to the experience, even if you play it 'properly' and actually use your guns; the real threat has always been running out of ammo or herbs. But there has never been a logical reason for Leon or Claire to not be able to aim at a B.O.W. at the other end of a hallway just because the player can't see them. That being said, all of this is just my opinion.

Sorry guys, I will never comprimise this. Resident Evil and Silent Hill for that matter must be fixed camara.

I have been wanting that kind of Survival Horror for years and I will never be satisfyed with anything else or any comprimise.

I have played Resident Evil Revelations and still wasn't satisfyed. I have had it with First Person No Combat Horrors that is flooding the market. And all I will say to people that is struggling with the controls of the older RE games is get good.

I grew up with these games, I beat Resident Evil 1 Remake on Real Survivor mode as Chris Redfield. And not once have I complained about the controls.

I beat Resident Evil 2 classic in under 2 hours without saving and not once I complained about the controls.

See me stream the game you will see I never had any problem with it, so get good.

Hawki:

Samtemdo8:
Resident Evil 2 Remastered must be Fixed Camara, fuck over the shoulder, now the police station will be less memorable.

Um...how?

Samtemdo8:

The only reason I still play it is just to see G William Birkin being the scariest resident evil monster in the history of the frainchise.

Cough*Nemesis*Cough

(And to be frank, Birkin was never that scary anyway.)

Samtemdo8:

No its just gonna make killing Zombies easier, taking away any sort of intimidation of them.

Because killing zombies was so hard in RE2. :P

And to be frank, OTS would make it harder, since you wouldn't have a lock on function, and it would likely factor in body vulnerability ala RE4, or heck, even Dead Aim before it.

1. The angles and the idea that something is around the corner really helps, some of the scares are effective because of how everything is angled.

2. Nemesis was when Resident Evil jumped the shark, a Rocket Launcher wielding Frankenstein. Yeah I'll take Cronenbergian William Birkin thank you.

3. Eh in Resident Evil 4 a shotgun was good enough to knock enemies into the ground. And can headshot them easily.

Well that's another game developer I've lost all respect for. Not because of his views on OTS camera, but because of his behavior.

Canadamus Prime:
Well that's another game developer I've lost all respect for. Not because of his views on OTS camera, but because of his behavior.

He should have stayed at Capcom.

Fixed cameras were only a thing due to technical limitations. If they could have rendered Resident Evil in full 3D they would have done so, in fact that is what Shinji Mikami wanted. I played all the original games but there is no doubt the fixed camera and tank controls have aged horribly. There is absolutely no point bringing them back. The only game that aged well from that time period is Resident Evil 4 which was over-the-shoulder. Also, the molders in RE7(which were essentially similar to slow moving zombies) worked by adjusting the running speed and shooting mechanics accordingly. This game gives me faith the development teams at Capcom know how to modernize old systems.

Hawki:

Samtemdo8:
Resident Evil 2 Remastered must be Fixed Camara, fuck over the shoulder, now the police station will be less memorable.

Um...how?

The over the shoulder perspective would be an odd fit for the police station. Most of the areas are cramped hallways, and the enemy density is very small. It works in RE4 and 5 since those games have larger, open areas, and more enemies on screen at a time.

I'd want a fixed camera for the RE2 remake, but one that follows the player, like in Until Dawn. As for the lack of free aim... Maybe have designated 'aim for head' and 'aim for torso' modes, with the former having a rate of success based on how close the target is to you and/or other factors, like your health status. Make the knife a secondary weapon set to its own button, so you can quickly whip it out. And maybe put in a dodge move that knocks you out of your aim.

I'd like to have it be a combination of the static view point and more slow gameplay of the classic games, with the quicker, snappier combat actions of RE4.

Yeah... I've never been a fan of the horizontal off-set from OTS view. I much preferred the centered view that the Jedi Knight series had, as well as being togglable between first person view and third person, maybe also in part because I've never liked dealing with console-esque camera designs, instead preferring the camera view being strictly fixed to my character's movement.

Hatachi:
I will say that once I started following his Twitter I was surprised how... blunt he tends to be at all times.

That's not 'blunt', unfortunately, that's acting like a child. Pretty damn disappointing, really.

Samtemdo8:

See me stream the game you will see I never had any problem with it, so get good.

It's got nothing to do with 'getting good'. Like I said

You argue that it makes killing zombies easier, but the most efficient ways to play the fixed camera, tank control titles of yore has always been to wall hug and avoid killing zombies, a plan that works flawlessly in pretty much every game.

A majority of old school RE fans have played and gotten comfortable with the tank controls, manipulating enemies and wall hugging our way to A ranks. But it's such an unenjoyable experience bolting through everything when it's supposed to be survival horror. It's like abusing inventory reloading during RE5's melee animations or abusing the huge invincibility frames in RE4's melee moves.

When you first use tank controls, it's challenging for all the wrong reasons. Once you've mastered them, it's easy to see that getting used to them was the only real difficulty.

EDIT: I feel the need to qualify that, again, this is just my opinion. Not trying to be arsey.

Ezekiel:
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I must ask... What has Kamiya added of worth to the third person shooter? He hasn't even made any, from what I can see. Forced over the shoulder is boring in a pure shooter. Why the hell would you prefer that over the ability to run and gun with a wide field of view AND have OTS as an OPTION?

Oh, he's probably talking about the new God of War. His taste is worse than I expected. The OTS view didn't do any favors for Hellblade. Boring game. If you wanna be able to fight off enemies on multiple sides, a free camera makes more sense.

Oh, he's with Platinum Games. I heard Santa Monica Studios devs talk about how they heard some Japanese devs had said the West can't make a good action adventure game anymore. Not sure what the basis for it was, but perhaps it had something to do with the recent popularity in OTS perspective. I kind of doubt someone from PG said it though, because most of their games don't use OTS.

I'll reserve my judgment on GoW though, given the studio's pedigree. Most of the original team is on, including combat lead. As good as the older games were though they still had their flaws, which I think they've learned something from this time around. Before, you often couldn't see all the enemies even though the view was more isometric and zoomed out. I remember having to roll backwards or move to another part of the stage to get the camera to shift and show out of view enemies. In this game the perspective is intentionally more personal, in a way that extends to the combat and still allows for enemy awareness. If anyone can find a way to make OTS work in an action adventure, it's them.

Hatachi:
I will say that once I started following his Twitter I was surprised how... blunt he tends to be at all times.

I'm glad he blocked me. That way I have less reasons to remember him for his human flaws, and more for his games. Although his "if you lecture me as if I don't know how to design games, then you can fuck off" attitude is pretty comprehensible.

Dude is a noted troll on Twitter. Love his work but I wouldn't take anything he tweets too seriously.

Ender910:
Yeah... I've never been a fan of the horizontal off-set from OTS view. I much preferred the centered view that the Jedi Knight series had, as well as being togglable between first person view and third person, maybe also in part because I've never liked dealing with console-esque camera designs, instead preferring the camera view being strictly fixed to my character's movement.

Yes, This.
Good point. Many may mistake OTS camera for third person camera. Wouldn't surprise me at all sadly.

I've never played any of his games, nor will I.
I'm not even sure he calls them games, since he calls himself a "director". Make movies instead then..
I was never really a fan of fixed camera point either, but could see its appeal in the horror genre.
A remake should also be true to its original in most ways, but work on a modern platform and with updated graphics and bugfixes.

Vendor-Lazarus:
I'm not even sure he calls them games, since he calls himself a "director". Make movies instead then..

You know that's a normal thing within games, right? A director? Someone who 'directs' where a game is heading during developement. Are people who write for games not allowed to call themselves writers either, because in that case why not just write books? What about the people who provide musical scores in games?

This whole game purism is getting silly now.

My issue with OTS is that it makes me feel blind on one side.

As a remake I gotta say keep it Fixed, it's part of what makes the game what it is. A

a tweet? People getting mad over a tweet? Haha...oh dear. He makes sense though, whoever he is. But seriously, I played the shit out of the old style resi evils and honestly don't find that style has aged particularly well at all. Ain't no nostalgia holding me back, man

Samtemdo8:

Canadamus Prime:
Well that's another game developer I've lost all respect for. Not because of his views on OTS camera, but because of his behavior.

He should have stayed at Capcom.

Would that stop him from shooting his "mouth" off on Twatter? I doubt it.

Samtemdo8:
And all I will say to people that is struggling with the controls of the older RE games is get good.

Because that's a great mindset to have - controls suck? Git gud.

Bear in mind I don't think the controls of the old games are bad per se, but they do feel antiquated by today's standards.

Samtemdo8:

I grew up with these games, I beat Resident Evil 1 Remake on Real Survivor mode as Chris Redfield. And not once have I complained about the controls.

I beat Resident Evil 2 classic in under 2 hours without saving and not once I complained about the controls.

I beat RE1 and RE2 as well and didn't complain about the controls. However, back then, I couldn't imagine a better control scheme. Funny how RE4 is my no. 1 RE game though, and Dead Space is more terrifying than any RE game I played, and both have OTS control schemes.

Samtemdo8:

1. The angles and the idea that something is around the corner really helps, some of the scares are effective because of how everything is angled.

They're not though, it's the game forcing a limitation on you - your character can see something you can't.

Samtemdo8:

2. Nemesis was when Resident Evil jumped the shark, a Rocket Launcher wielding Frankenstein. Yeah I'll take Cronenbergian William Birkin thank you.

Imagine that, a BOW actually using a weapon...

Sorry, Nemesis is a much more intimidating villain than Birkin. With Birkin, you face him five times, and two of those times, your strategy is just stand and shoot. One of those times (the first time you fight him on the elevator), it's practically impossible to die if you know what you're doing (run-shoot-run-shoot). Nemesis is a far more intimidating villain - it can more faster, take more punishment, and from a story perspective, there's something far more insidious about a Tyrant being sent to kill Jill specifically rather than Birkin attacking Leon and Claire because they happen to just run into each other.

Samtemdo8:

3. Eh in Resident Evil 4 a shotgun was good enough to knock enemies into the ground. And can headshot them easily.

The shotgun's always been effective against the 'grunt enemies' of RE games - the trick is to try to not have to use it. Again, in the early RE games, the zombies are just "stand and shoot" to down. It's not really a test of player skill, it's a test of ammo management. I'd say that ReMake actually did a good job of this, but again, OTS allows for more dynamic aiming. Part of why Dead Space works so well is that you really do have to factor in where you shoot the necromorphs, and avert your inclination to go for the head, instead aiming for the limbs.

Casual Shinji:
The over the shoulder perspective would be an odd fit for the police station. Most of the areas are cramped hallways, and the enemy density is very small. It works in RE4 and 5 since those games have larger, open areas, and more enemies on screen at a time.

Fair enough, but you could increase the density.

Actually, come to think of it, I think that's another reason why I like RE3 more than RE2 (still like both though). In RE2, zombies effectively cease to be a threat once you reach the police station, at least if you know what you're doing as far as ammo management goes. RE3, you're on the streets for much longer, and you've got to be more sparing with your ammo for longer. The streets are wide enough that you can dodge zombies, and you really have to early on.

There are advantages and disadvantages to over the shoulder camera versus either first person or fixed camera's. First person tends to be the most versatile and leaves the most control to the player which can be good or bad depending on the game. Third person allows you to see slightly behind the player character which keeps him in view and can help you spot backstabs. Again, it depends on the game whether that is good or bad.

I'm not really inclined to discuss the matter too much in the kind of tones that this Kamiya guy is setting, though. Same goes for everyone who gets too upset over a minor game design issue like this. Nobody has to make or play games with camera angles they don't like, so calm down.

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