So Monster Hunter World

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Elvis Starburst:
Half an hour seems like a long time to be in a hunt. Unless some of that time is taken up doing gathering and such, I don't often find myself in a hunt for more than 15 minutes, give or take a few extra minutes. But sometimes finding the monster can be a bit tough, so I'm not exactly sure how your hunts have gone. The time limit exists for a few reasons, but one of them is so you can't cheese the hunt by doing short attack and run tactics to whittle the monster away endlessly. You have a timer, so you gotta get in there and actually fight the thing or fail the quest. 50 minutes, just shy of an hour should be more than enough to beat any monster.

Tbf I've been playing LS (after maining GL in 4G and bow in XX) and my times aren't much better at this point. You can easily go over half an hour and almost run up to the 50 minute mark when you first start, especially if you don't have a feel for the combat.

@Casual Shinji: I know this is going to make me sound like a jerk, but the solution is really just to get better and kill the monsters faster. ...But if you want more practical advice, try doing investigations rather than expeditions so you get the full 50 minutes rather than ~30.

Bad Player:

@Casual Shinji: I know this is going to make me sound like a jerk, but the solution is really just to get better and kill the monsters faster. ...But if you want more practical advice, try doing investigations rather than expeditions so you get the full 50 minutes rather than ~30.

Expeditions are more a practice run without failure conditions too. You can get some training in against the monsters while farming up supplies without a faint ending the thing. But for actual hunting, it's entirely subpar because of the lack of rewards, no zenny (gold), no bonus resources, no free quest supplies.

Phoenixmgs:

Casual Shinji:
First I quickly realized this whole game was just going to be a loot grind.

That's really disappointing. I don't get why games just can't have great gameplay be the reason for you to keep playing, that's why early multiplayer games were addicting, just great gameplay without the bullshit of getting the next marginally better thing.

I find the game play really fun tbh, so the loot grind aspect doesn't bother me too much yet. There is a lot there to keep things from getting stale, and the monsters switch up their attack patterns once you enter high rank keeping them pretty fresh. What keeps the game really interesting is that the terrain plays a huge roll in how fights play out, which keeps things fairly dynamic. Some monsters will climb up structures and jump off to perform unique attacks while the larger ones alter the terrain by destroying obstacles. The environments are so detailed and varied they are almost like a character in the game. I have put in forty hours only using the insect glaive and I am still learning how to master only one of the fourteen weapons. I just like killing big monsters so this game it great for me, if you are looking for a fleshed out world and story boy are you in for a disappointment.

gigastar:
Well the mantra of 'hit and dont be hit' obviously applies.

In World theres a much greater emphasis on using the environment to your advantage, but i have limited knowledge on this subject as i wont be able to actually play the game until much later this year.

Seth Carter:
Other then you can't for instance, shoot off a gun and blow the **** out of the monster, I'd compare it to Horizon. Some parts are specifically breakable, which often disables various attacks. Any part of the monster will chip away with enough hits reducing defense though. Enough damage overall will let you simply trap and tranquilize the monster for a capture (usually well before you kill it).

You won't get a monster down for a "Press O to execute" prompt, and your big hits are more done by comboing well and hitting a weakened spot then shooting a fuel tank or something similar. You might be able to kill real early monsters by just dodging and hitting whatever, but later game or on missions with tighter timers, not going for the weak points/using enviroment/items will be such a damage degrade that it'll mean failure.

Dansen:
I find the game play really fun tbh, so the loot grind aspect doesn't bother me too much yet. There is a lot there to keep things from getting stale, and the monsters switch up their attack patterns once you enter high rank keeping them pretty fresh. What keeps the game really interesting is that the terrain plays a huge roll in how fights play out, which keeps things fairly dynamic. Some monsters will climb up structures and jump off to perform unique attacks while the larger ones alter the terrain by destroying obstacles. The environments are so detailed and varied they are almost like a character in the game. I have put in forty hours only using the insect glaive and I am still learning how to master only one of the fourteen weapons. I just like killing big monsters so this game it great for me, if you are looking for a fleshed out world and story boy are you in for a disappointment.

Ok, I guess I definitely have to at least give MH a shot because I love good fights against huge enemies in games but very very few games actually succeed at that. I remember the E3 video of Witcher 3's griffin fight and thinking why are they "showing off" that because it was a horrible griffin fight. Part of me wants to run out and try it right now but I really do need to finish Shadow Tactics and the 1st Divinity Original Sin before adding another lengthy game. I'll mostly likely pick it up before my Best Buy club subscription runs out in April and hopefully it goes on sale for a week and I can get it for like $30. I also came across the following review that explained some of the weapon/gear intricacies pretty well and made them sound really interesting. Although his praise for Nier Automata doesn't really instill the greatest amount of confidence into his opinions.

As talked about in another thread, I'm a fan of Two Best Friends Play.

I don't remember the episode, but there was one where Pat was trying to get Woolie hyped about Monster Hunter. He said what basically amounted to "Hey, you like Dark Souls Bosses? Monster Hunter is a game specifically created to be only Dark Souls Bosses".

To that fact, and if it's true... I'm not sure how much depth one could find other than killing the big bad monsters and feeling like a Boss doing so.

I haven't touched it yet, I am a pc player mainly. I have some time before I can actually see it with my own eyes. But on the idea of endlessly dark souls boss fights, I was sold alone. To those who've played it, was Pat's description apt?

ObsidianJones:
As talked about in another thread, I'm a fan of Two Best Friends Play.

I don't remember the episode, but there was one where Pat was trying to get Woolie hyped about Monster Hunter. He said what basically amounted to "Hey, you like Dark Souls Bosses? Monster Hunter is a game specifically created to be only Dark Souls Bosses".

To that fact, and if it's true... I'm not sure how much depth one could find other than killing the big bad monsters and feeling like a Boss doing so.

I haven't touched it yet, I am a pc player mainly. I have some time before I can actually see it with my own eyes. But on the idea of endlessly dark souls boss fights, I was sold alone. To those who've played it, was Pat's description apt?

Its more like the monsters were Dark Soul boss if the bosses not only tanked a bunch of damage but they could runaway. I personally don't care for it.

Here is Woolie fighting a big monster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSFFGbXVPmc&t=2188s

ObsidianJones:
As talked about in another thread, I'm a fan of Two Best Friends Play.

I don't remember the episode, but there was one where Pat was trying to get Woolie hyped about Monster Hunter. He said what basically amounted to "Hey, you like Dark Souls Bosses? Monster Hunter is a game specifically created to be only Dark Souls Bosses".

To that fact, and if it's true... I'm not sure how much depth one could find other than killing the big bad monsters and feeling like a Boss doing so.

I haven't touched it yet, I am a pc player mainly. I have some time before I can actually see it with my own eyes. But on the idea of endlessly dark souls boss fights, I was sold alone. To those who've played it, was Pat's description apt?

Kinda, but not really. Pat stretched the truth a bit to tempt Woolie. You kill big things but MHW bosses change the arena multiple times and you have to follow them. Sometimes another boss will show up that you are unprepared for and have to run away/hide while the bosses/monsters duke it out. Your gear matters much more, not so much for extra defense/damage(it helps a lot tho) but the skills associated with them. Think rings but they are now tied to armor pieces/weapons, and some skills stack for more powerful bonuses. Consumable damage items are actually useful and necessary to take on bosses in a timely manner. Imagine poisoned throwing knives and kukuri being a legitimate option for dealing status damage to bosses. Boss fights are more chaotic while simultaneously requiring the player to be more methodical than Dark Souls. They are fairly different outside of being arpgs with a focus on large enemies.

Dansen:
Sometimes another boss will show up that you are unprepared for and have to run away/hide while the bosses/monsters duke it out.

Funny story about that, I was fighting Legania the first time around and a Tzitki kind of strolled up, did his flashy thing and stunned Legania out of the sky, then sauntered off while I took the opportunity to get some free hits on the critter. One of the odd occasions where it hasn't just been a curb stomp for the obviously stronger monster, lol.

So I've now progressed far enough into the game to face down a big event with the Elder Dragon that you see in the beginning of the game. While playing this mission I realized just how utterly boring Monster Hunter actually is. You see Monster Hunter is a game of repetition, you fight the same monster over and over until you get the parts you want to make the gear you need to fight the next monster.

Every mission is the same, see that monster? Kill it, or sometimes just beat it to nearly death and trap it. Rinse and Repeat. While this cycle was fun enough for a while, it was actually the big staging mission against Zora Magdros, where you have to shoot cannons and balistas at the massive thing, before you then get onto the beat and pop some zits that I realized the potential Monster Hunter has but completely fails.

The Zora mission sucks. Loading cannons is slow and boring, and popping zits on the beast isn't challenging or fun. But it does highlight a question.

Why does every monster fight go the same way?

In a game that is all about monster fights, why does every monster fight got he same way?

You find the monster, you hit the monster until it stops moving, the end. It doesn't matter the monster, it doesn't matter what weapons you use, every fight goes this way. Why couldn't there be objectives when fighting monsters? Maybe you have to poison the monster's nest before you go to fight the creature because it's too powerful for your weapons. So you have to beat it back to the nest where it gets poisoned and you defeat it that way? Or have to break apart armor plating on monster's body parts in order to deal damage to vital organs?

Like the Zora fight, where you have to break pieces on the creature rather than actually fighting the creature, this just seems like a huge missed opportunity to make these monster fights truly interesting.

Additionally a thing that bothers me is the fact that you can't ever really over prepare for any given monster. Like Anganath for example, is basically a Fire-based T-Rex. How come in all this gear you can craft, these ammo coatings, traps, potions, and all this prep you can do before fighting this thing, why can't you over prepare and fuck his shit up? Now I know what you are gonna say, "well he is weak to fire and does fire damage to you, so wear fire resistance and use a water weapon", and yeah I guess. But here is the thing about that. Using a water weapon against him, doesn't actually do any significant extra damage to the creature. There is no interaction beyond a slightly bigger number when you hit him. Using water doesn't actually give you an advantage against the monster and that is the problem with monster hunter.

You are a hunter, you are supposed to know your shit, which means if you prepare correctly, the monster should have ZERO chance against you. Of course since this is a video game, you have to be balanced and whatever so let's tone it down a bit and ask you this question. Anganath can breath fire, what if he loses that ability if you hit him with water weapons? Maybe the water weapons reduce his body temp enough that his fire no longer works, which means you gain an very solid advantage against the monster without ruining the danger and the fun have having to take a guy that will bite, jump, claw, and charge your ass down.

But Monster Hunter doesn't have those kinds of interactions. Nothing actually matter beyond just making better gear and having enough numbers to survive the monster's numbers.

By the way, poison is by far the most powerful effect in the game for weapons. Because it is the only weapon effect that has an impact on the battle. When a monster is poisoned it takes damage over time, and this effect lasts while they run away from you making the extra damage you deal with poison far beyond what little extra damage hitting the monster with its weakness provides because the damage happens even without hitting the beast.

Anyway i'd give the game a 6/10 honestly. It's only fun for a while, but once I realized that nothing I do really makes a difference, I stopped caring.

The OP's complaints actually make me want to check it out when it comes out on PC this fall. A game with challenging boss fights that requires one to study and understand the mechanics of the game and develop and execute appropriate strategies sounds fun.

Kerg3927:
The OP's complaints actually make me want to check it out when it comes out on PC this fall. A game with challenging boss fights that requires one to study and understand the mechanics of the game and develop and execute appropriate strategies sounds fun.

read post #44 and see if you still think that.

Commanderfantasy:

Kerg3927:
The OP's complaints actually make me want to check it out when it comes out on PC this fall. A game with challenging boss fights that requires one to study and understand the mechanics of the game and develop and execute appropriate strategies sounds fun.

read post #44 and see if you still think that.

What do you mean by the Monsters fight the same way?

I assume its because most of the monsters are of the same species?

Older Monster Hunter games had wider varieties of monsters that none fight the same way, like Chameleos, he turns invisible.

Or Lao Shan Lung:

Or this guy:

But in the end the whole point of Monster Hunter is that its a game where you hunt Monsters with your friends. Its purely co-op. There is no meaningful stories to be had here. Which is why calling it an RPG is flimsy at best.

Samtemdo8:

Commanderfantasy:

Kerg3927:
The OP's complaints actually make me want to check it out when it comes out on PC this fall. A game with challenging boss fights that requires one to study and understand the mechanics of the game and develop and execute appropriate strategies sounds fun.

read post #44 and see if you still think that.

What do you mean by the Monsters fight the same way?

I assume its because most of the monsters are of the same species?

Older Monster Hunter games had wider varieties of monsters that none fight the same way, like Chameleos, he turns invisible.

Or Lao Shan Lung:

Or this guy:

But in the end the whole point of Monster Hunter is that its a game where you hunt Monsters with your friends. Its purely co-op. There is no meaningful stories to be had here. Which is why calling it an RPG is flimsy at best.

The monster's attack you differently sure. Different swipes, bites, stomps, etc. However the method used for attacking and defeating each monster is ultimately the same. Hit it until it stops moving. Like I said, in a game that is solely around boss fights, I feel like the potential here is utterly wasted.

Now unless something changes at high rank, I have seen nothing to suggest that your tactic really changes from monster to monster. So long as you make the next level of gear for each new set of monsters, you are numerically fine.

What the game is missing is tactics. Or at least diversifying the fights in some way. Like I said, maybe a monster needs you to break of pieces of it before doing actual damage. Or having elemental affects actually do something more important than slightly bigger numbers.

For example, what if water damage made the ground and the monster itself slippery, so that when it tried to run away from you it would fall down allowing you to capitalize on that?

Or if fire caused burns on the monster's flesh, which allowed you to deal more damage to the creature if you keep attacking the burned area?

Or if electric damage made the monster extremely slow or confused to the point where it couldn't aim for you very well?

All of these things are extremely under utilized and make the grind for gear in the game uninteresting imo. I watched a video of a guy using a bowgun from early game to late game, and his tactics did not change from the Jagras to the end boss dragon thing. He simply shot the monster over and over again until it died. There was no need to aim for different parts at different times, just shoot the monster and roll out of the way of its attacks = winning.

Your not factoring in sleeping tranquilizers that people puts monsters to sleep to capture thus earning even more loot.

Or stacking large explosive barrels at the sleeping monster's face to deal massive damage.

Or using traps in general.

Or that cutting off a Rathian's tail will reduce its attack damage and removes its poison.

And you can fish out a Gobul in Monster hunter 3.

Commanderfantasy:
You are a hunter, you are supposed to know your shit, which means if you prepare correctly, the monster should have ZERO chance against you.

I think that's a very mis-guided way of looking at it. If the monster couldn't stand a single chance against you, then that defeats the whole point of the monsters, where they're supposed to be threatening even with high level gear. I mean, some monsters will become absolute cake walks in the later parts of the game no matter what you do. But to say they should stand no chance what-so-ever just because you prepped like crazy would make the game less fun. Preparing beforehand is meant to make things easier, not impossible to fail scenarios.

Unless, of course, you're not speaking THAT literally when you say that. In which case... Ignore my ramblings I guess.

Your ideas of elements having a bit more of an effect is a neat idea though, maybe that'll be a thing in the next game!

Elvis Starburst:

Commanderfantasy:
You are a hunter, you are supposed to know your shit, which means if you prepare correctly, the monster should have ZERO chance against you.

I think that's a very mis-guided way of looking at it. If the monster couldn't stand a single chance against you, then that defeats the whole point of the monsters, where they're supposed to be threatening even with high level gear. I mean, some monsters will become absolute cake walks in the later parts of the game no matter what you do. But to say they should stand no chance what-so-ever just because you prepped like crazy would make the game less fun. Preparing beforehand is meant to make things easier, not impossible to fail scenarios.

Unless, of course, you're not speaking THAT literally when you say that. In which case... Ignore my ramblings I guess.

Your ideas of elements having a bit more of an effect is a neat idea though, maybe that'll be a thing in the next game!

No I'm not being THAT literal. But I am saying that if you prepare, and if the elemental weakness or weapons actually mattered depending on the monster, then yeah you could make a lot of the monsters simply inferior to you. You can rob a flying monster of flight, rob a fire monster it's fire, things like that where you would still have to deal with the huge physicality of the monster, but you could neutralize a big part of the threat.

Hell they could even have monsters that reveal secondary tricks to use against you if you ruin their first plan. For example Rathion loses poison if you cut off his tail. But what if he suddenly becomes much faster afterwards? He is lighter now, so perhaps his movements could become faster and more erratic. So yes, you don't worry about poison or tail whips, but now his moveset is much more chaotic and unpredictable.

What I'm trying to say is that the game isn't nearly as dynamic as it should be in its monster fights when you consider the game is ONLY monster fights.

Commanderfantasy:
No I'm not being THAT literal.

Had a feeling.

But I am saying that if you prepare, and if the elemental weakness or weapons actually mattered depending on the monster, then yeah you could make a lot of the monsters simply inferior to you. You can rob a flying monster of flight, rob a fire monster it's fire, things like that where you would still have to deal with the huge physicality of the monster, but you could neutralize a big part of the threat.

Hell they could even have monsters that reveal secondary tricks to use against you if you ruin their first plan. For example Rathion loses poison if you cut off his tail. But what if he suddenly becomes much faster afterwards? He is lighter now, so perhaps his movements could become faster and more erratic. So yes, you don't worry about poison or tail whips, but now his moveset is much more chaotic and unpredictable.

What I'm trying to say is that the game isn't nearly as dynamic as it should be in its monster fights when you consider the game is ONLY monster fights.

Huh, not a bad Rathian scenario idea there. Having her move set change up based on that sort of thing is a good idea. Weaken her in a few ways, suddenly she's kicking my ass with a new move or two... I like it.

As I said, potentially that'll be how the next game goes. This is the first game in the 5th generation, and it's being built for consoles and PC now. The potential with the new engine is MUCH higher than before. Capcom wanted to take Monster Hunter into a stronger direction, and this is showing just the surface of what they have in mind and what they can do. I look forward to the later installments~

High-rank monsters od get expanded movesets, too. The ones you fight in the story are sort of the watered down versions. Which is a design choice, though one that kind of baffles me somewhat in games. Destiny for example, was another game where tons of stuff from Legendary gear to coloring your outfit was locked in the post-game. Its an odd design logic, where the narrative compulsion is separated from the deeper tiers of gameplay, which doesn't give off a great first impression sometimes.

As to Anjanath, hit him with water if he starts sparking in the mouth, it stops him from breathing fire. Tobi Kadachi right before him (in the story) takes extra damage if you hit his electric charged bits with water (Or if you want to skip him charging up, hit him with flash pods or scatternuts when he jumps up on trees). Barroth and other monsters that use sand/mud armor get it broken instantly by water attacks.

For raw damage though, the elemental bonus gets kind of lost. Most elemental weapons do less base damage then the raw physical ones in the same tier, which cuts off most of the bonus damage. Its not really noticeable until you start getting into the high end.

Commanderfantasy:

Elvis Starburst:

Commanderfantasy:
You are a hunter, you are supposed to know your shit, which means if you prepare correctly, the monster should have ZERO chance against you.

I think that's a very mis-guided way of looking at it. If the monster couldn't stand a single chance against you, then that defeats the whole point of the monsters, where they're supposed to be threatening even with high level gear. I mean, some monsters will become absolute cake walks in the later parts of the game no matter what you do. But to say they should stand no chance what-so-ever just because you prepped like crazy would make the game less fun. Preparing beforehand is meant to make things easier, not impossible to fail scenarios.

Unless, of course, you're not speaking THAT literally when you say that. In which case... Ignore my ramblings I guess.

Your ideas of elements having a bit more of an effect is a neat idea though, maybe that'll be a thing in the next game!

No I'm not being THAT literal. But I am saying that if you prepare, and if the elemental weakness or weapons actually mattered depending on the monster, then yeah you could make a lot of the monsters simply inferior to you. You can rob a flying monster of flight, rob a fire monster it's fire, things like that where you would still have to deal with the huge physicality of the monster, but you could neutralize a big part of the threat.

Hell they could even have monsters that reveal secondary tricks to use against you if you ruin their first plan. For example Rathion loses poison if you cut off his tail. But what if he suddenly becomes much faster afterwards? He is lighter now, so perhaps his movements could become faster and more erratic. So yes, you don't worry about poison or tail whips, but now his moveset is much more chaotic and unpredictable.

What I'm trying to say is that the game isn't nearly as dynamic as it should be in its monster fights when you consider the game is ONLY monster fights.

The fundamental problem i have with what you posted is that you seem to think that a Rathian (or anything else for that matter) either has experience with or can instantly adapt to having its tail cut off.

gigastar:

Commanderfantasy:

Elvis Starburst:

I think that's a very mis-guided way of looking at it. If the monster couldn't stand a single chance against you, then that defeats the whole point of the monsters, where they're supposed to be threatening even with high level gear. I mean, some monsters will become absolute cake walks in the later parts of the game no matter what you do. But to say they should stand no chance what-so-ever just because you prepped like crazy would make the game less fun. Preparing beforehand is meant to make things easier, not impossible to fail scenarios.

Unless, of course, you're not speaking THAT literally when you say that. In which case... Ignore my ramblings I guess.

Your ideas of elements having a bit more of an effect is a neat idea though, maybe that'll be a thing in the next game!

No I'm not being THAT literal. But I am saying that if you prepare, and if the elemental weakness or weapons actually mattered depending on the monster, then yeah you could make a lot of the monsters simply inferior to you. You can rob a flying monster of flight, rob a fire monster it's fire, things like that where you would still have to deal with the huge physicality of the monster, but you could neutralize a big part of the threat.

Hell they could even have monsters that reveal secondary tricks to use against you if you ruin their first plan. For example Rathion loses poison if you cut off his tail. But what if he suddenly becomes much faster afterwards? He is lighter now, so perhaps his movements could become faster and more erratic. So yes, you don't worry about poison or tail whips, but now his moveset is much more chaotic and unpredictable.

What I'm trying to say is that the game isn't nearly as dynamic as it should be in its monster fights when you consider the game is ONLY monster fights.

The fundamental problem i have with what you posted is that you seem to think that a Rathian (or anything else for that matter) either has experience with or can instantly adapt to having its tail cut off.

It's a video game. And yes it would. A creature that looses a tail, would no longer try to hit you with that tail, yet monster in MHW will still spin their backs at you as if trying to wap you with a tail.

Even still. Video game is a video game.

Phoenixmgs:

Samtemdo8:
The grind is worth it when you end up being worthy to do these kinds of bosses.

Why can't the game just give me the good stuff without making trudge through the bad? A lot of games have this issue. I don't have to do this for any other medium. I don't have to trudge through the first 2 seasons or so of a TV show for it to get good. Something like Shadow of the Colossus is just 16 boss fights and that's it because killing cannon fodder enemies or having to farm every colossus to get some drop would only artificially lengthen the game.

Actually, there are quite a few shows out there where the first season or two is rough, then gets really good. Stargate SG-1, Babylon 5, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, and such.

That said, Monster Hunter usually does have you facing your first large monster in less than an hour, depending on how fast you go through the tutorial. Your encounters usually start with the "Great Drome" monsters because, frankly, the bigger stuff tends to paste you even when you do have those early fights under your belt.

Those Elder Dragons are like Final and Bonus Boss fights. The meat is stuff like the Rathalos, Lavasioth, and Anjanath(to say nothing of Lagiacrus, Zinogre, Tigrex, Brachydios, and the like from other games).

Cycloptomese:
I really enjoy facing a monster and having a tough time, then encountering it later when I have much better gear and just shredding it.

You shouldn't be better at fighting the same monsters just because you have better gear. For example, in Horizon, you don't really get better gear (with regards to damage increases), you get better at fighting the enemies from prior experience and knowing their weaknesses and being able to exploit that much more efficiently. And new gear opens up more combat options vs increasing your DPS. So when you go and wreck a Stormbird, you do so because you learned how to fight it and not because you now have a +100 bow.

Dude, the only thing better gear gives you is a better chance. Even with optimal weapons and armor, any monster at any difficulty level can cart you in seconds if you don't know how to fight it.

That has always been the meat of Monster Hunting. To read the Monster's "tells", know the limitations of it's attacks, and how to best exploit them with the weapons and equipment you have. To know how many times that Wyvern is gonna turn around and charge you again before it falls over and gives you a chance to sharpen your weapon, reload, or attack it with your biggest combo/swing. What the pattern/sweep of it's ranged attacks are so you can stand in a safe angle and hit it with your bowgun. When it's hungry enough to eat that drugged meat you dropped so you can sleep bomb it. What paths it usually takes when roaming so you can find it, what and where it eats when tired, or where it sleeps when it's wounded. If using a certain trap on it will only make it stronger, or if a certain bomb will just piss it off.

Commanderfantasy:

gigastar:

Commanderfantasy:

No I'm not being THAT literal. But I am saying that if you prepare, and if the elemental weakness or weapons actually mattered depending on the monster, then yeah you could make a lot of the monsters simply inferior to you. You can rob a flying monster of flight, rob a fire monster it's fire, things like that where you would still have to deal with the huge physicality of the monster, but you could neutralize a big part of the threat.

Hell they could even have monsters that reveal secondary tricks to use against you if you ruin their first plan. For example Rathion loses poison if you cut off his tail. But what if he suddenly becomes much faster afterwards? He is lighter now, so perhaps his movements could become faster and more erratic. So yes, you don't worry about poison or tail whips, but now his moveset is much more chaotic and unpredictable.

What I'm trying to say is that the game isn't nearly as dynamic as it should be in its monster fights when you consider the game is ONLY monster fights.

The fundamental problem i have with what you posted is that you seem to think that a Rathian (or anything else for that matter) either has experience with or can instantly adapt to having its tail cut off.

It's a video game. And yes it would. A creature that looses a tail, would no longer try to hit you with that tail, yet monster in MHW will still spin their backs at you as if trying to wap you with a tail.

Even still. Video game is a video game.

To be fair, if it hits you with the stump, it still hurts, and I think can still poison you.

SAMAS:

To be fair, if it hits you with the stump, it still hurts, and I think can still poison you.

In Monster Hunter World, it does lose the ability to poison you. However in previous games you would still get poisoned if it did the tail attack even after the tail was gone. So the latest game does at least improve in this way.

I wouldn't say 100%, but I can't recall seeing any of the monsters do their tail-only attacks after its been severed. They'll still do combos that use the tail, but Diablos for instance, won't do his pure double tail swipe, only the spin where he spins to bite you then swipes. Raths still do their similar combo, and the backflipping swoop move because that uses claws, not just tail.

Commanderfantasy:

Samtemdo8:

Commanderfantasy:

read post #44 and see if you still think that.

What do you mean by the Monsters fight the same way?

I assume its because most of the monsters are of the same species?

Older Monster Hunter games had wider varieties of monsters that none fight the same way, like Chameleos, he turns invisible.

Or Lao Shan Lung:

Or this guy:

But in the end the whole point of Monster Hunter is that its a game where you hunt Monsters with your friends. Its purely co-op. There is no meaningful stories to be had here. Which is why calling it an RPG is flimsy at best.

The monster's attack you differently sure. Different swipes, bites, stomps, etc. However the method used for attacking and defeating each monster is ultimately the same. Hit it until it stops moving. Like I said, in a game that is solely around boss fights, I feel like the potential here is utterly wasted.

Now unless something changes at high rank, I have seen nothing to suggest that your tactic really changes from monster to monster. So long as you make the next level of gear for each new set of monsters, you are numerically fine.

What the game is missing is tactics. Or at least diversifying the fights in some way. Like I said, maybe a monster needs you to break of pieces of it before doing actual damage.

Daimyo Hermitaur, Barroth, Agnaktor/Glacial Agnaktor, Gammoth, Nakarkos.

Or having elemental affects actually do something more important than slightly bigger numbers.

Barroth, Zinogre/Stigyan Zinogre.

For example, what if water damage made the ground and the monster itself slippery, so that when it tried to run away from you it would fall down allowing you to capitalize on that?

Like how attacking Barroth with water attacks washes off it's mud armor, changing it's resistances? or how Fire Damage, though doing little damage to an Agnaktor, softens it's lava armor, allowing more raw damage to get through?

Or if fire caused burns on the monster's flesh, which allowed you to deal more damage to the creature if you keep attacking the burned area?

Though not elemental-specific, a lot of monsters have weak points that are revealed through damaging or destroying the right body part. And it's often more than just bigger damage. For example, attacking the point where you severed a monster's tail has a good chance of causing it to stumble. Or how, if you can trip a Zinogre, you can take away it's charged power-up simply by catching the bugs on its back with a net?

Or if electric damage made the monster extremely slow or confused to the point where it couldn't aim for you very well?

No way, that would make fighting it too easy. Sleep and Paralysis elements are bad enough.

All of these things are extremely under utilized and make the grind for gear in the game uninteresting imo. I watched a video of a guy using a bowgun from early game to late game, and his tactics did not change from the Jagras to the end boss dragon thing. He simply shot the monster over and over again until it died. There was no need to aim for different parts at different times, just shoot the monster and roll out of the way of its attacks = winning.

Got a link? Because I wonder if you weren't paying enough attention to it. Bowguns are usually hard to solo with unless you know where to shoot and what ammo to use.

Commanderfantasy:

It's a video game. And yes it would. A creature that looses a tail, would no longer try to hit you with that tail, yet monster in MHW will still spin their backs at you as if trying to wap you with a tail.

Even still. Video game is a video game.

Yes, the enraged, non-sapient monster in incredible pain from having one of its appendages lopped off by some tiny prey mammal might not have the most rational of attack strategies.

You know the monsters don't learn from this sort of experience, right? Because you kill them?

(Though it would be fun to run into Ol' Stumpy, the Anjanath I keep cutting the tail off of but never killed.)

Commanderfantasy:

Kerg3927:
The OP's complaints actually make me want to check it out when it comes out on PC this fall. A game with challenging boss fights that requires one to study and understand the mechanics of the game and develop and execute appropriate strategies sounds fun.

read post #44 and see if you still think that.

You basically described Doom. I mean, what's the difference between the plasma rifle and the shotgun besides different numbers. I mean, all you do is shoot the bad guys until they fall down.

Seth Carter:
High-rank monsters od get expanded movesets, too. The ones you fight in the story are sort of the watered down versions. Which is a design choice, though one that kind of baffles me somewhat in games. Destiny for example, was another game where tons of stuff from Legendary gear to coloring your outfit was locked in the post-game. Its an odd design logic, where the narrative compulsion is separated from the deeper tiers of gameplay, which doesn't give off a great first impression sometimes.

As to Anjanath, hit him with water if he starts sparking in the mouth, it stops him from breathing fire. Tobi Kadachi right before him (in the story) takes extra damage if you hit his electric charged bits with water (Or if you want to skip him charging up, hit him with flash pods or scatternuts when he jumps up on trees). Barroth and other monsters that use sand/mud armor get it broken instantly by water attacks.

For raw damage though, the elemental bonus gets kind of lost. Most elemental weapons do less base damage then the raw physical ones in the same tier, which cuts off most of the bonus damage. Its not really noticeable until you start getting into the high end.

The trick there is high attach speed weapons. A 120 Elemental damage rating does the same damage on a Great Sword as it does the dual knives, so take the weapon that gets to swing a lot.

Yeah, I really wanted to make the jump into Monster Hunter and try it out since it's combat reminds me a bit of Dark Souls.

BUT, I really don't have friends to walk me through as a newb, and frankly, I feel that the 3DS would have been the way to learn how to play Monster Hunter because it's just easier to explain things during in-person multiplayer.

But the main reason I didn't get it was because I still have last years shame pile sitting in a corner (sorry Persona 5, I will finish you someday) and there's already games I'm really interested in this early in the year, like Shadow of the Colossus PS4 and SFV Arcade and Bayonetta 2 for Switch and of course if I really want to dive into Monster Hunter because it looked a little like Dark Souls, why don't I just get Dark Souls on the Switch in a few months and have my favorite game always ready to go?

altnameJag:

Commanderfantasy:

It's a video game. And yes it would. A creature that looses a tail, would no longer try to hit you with that tail, yet monster in MHW will still spin their backs at you as if trying to wap you with a tail.

Even still. Video game is a video game.

Yes, the enraged, non-sapient monster in incredible pain from having one of its appendages lopped off by some tiny prey mammal might not have the most rational of attack strategies.

You know the monsters don't learn from this sort of experience, right? Because you kill them?

(Though it would be fun to run into Ol' Stumpy, the Anjanath I keep cutting the tail off of but never killed.)

Monster Hunter Nemesis system! That'd be cool. Like the elder Dragon you fight over and over again without ever killing it, but each time you fight it you break something on it so it starts to really hate you during additional fights. Each encounter could be scripted in a way that the monster fights you differently everytime.

Come to think of it, they could have done that to a lesser degree. What if instead of the monster having set attacks like they do now. Give the monsters a pool of attacks and every time one of those monsters spawns, it spawns with a set number of attacks in a pool. That way the monster will be a different fight everytime because it will have a varied moveset for each encounter. This could allow fighting the monster one time in a certain way, not work for the next time you fight it, thus making the player have to think more strategically.

SAMAS:
[snip

Was you can knock the armor off the Barroth, but this isn't required. I beat Juryados and the Barroth, without bothering to knock of the mud fairly easily. I use S&S with the poison element and I haven't needed to switch weapons for anything yet. (and honestly the grind bored me so I'm not even playing the game anymore, except when a friend wants to play) The point I was trying to suggest was to make these elemental types, or armor breaking REQUIRED, not just options. Options allow players to mindlessly fight and eventually win. But when a monster actually objective based goals required to defeat it, that's when the player is forced to think about the fight and pulls them into the game more.

Now I'm not saying my examples are perfect or even good, they are merely ideas. And not every monster needs to be a puzzle with hurdles to jump through in order to beat it. Normal beatdown monsters are fine and can even help relieve stress from fighting complex creatures. But every monster shouldn't be that way.

As for the video. I don't have a link I was watching someone named "Orderofthesilverphoenix" on Twitch.tv fight the thing. You might be able to find the video in a past broadcast or something, but he streams for 8+ hours at a time and I happened to catch him fighting the thing in the middle of a stream somewhere. Sorry, because I'd love to show you the video that gave me that impression in the first place.

altnameJag:

Commanderfantasy:

Kerg3927:
The OP's complaints actually make me want to check it out when it comes out on PC this fall. A game with challenging boss fights that requires one to study and understand the mechanics of the game and develop and execute appropriate strategies sounds fun.

read post #44 and see if you still think that.

You basically described Doom. I mean, what's the difference between the plasma rifle and the shotgun besides different numbers. I mean, all you do is shoot the bad guys until they fall down.

Different game styles. Doom is about just going ragenuts on some demons and doesn't pretend to have complex strategic approaches. You run and you gun.

You can't compare games that are trying to do different things (clearly) together.

I mean I could say that all first person shooting games are basically just point and clicks right? All you do is point and click, so it's a point and click. But that's not actually a fair comparison is it.

Same thing here.

And with a game like monster hunter where it is trying to provide players basically a boss rush, crafting game, all I'm trying to say is that it's boss fights are fairly disappointing imo. The monsters don't really provide much in the way of variety. I'm not saying the game can't be challenging, and I'm not saying the game is outright bad. I'm merely saying that it could be better.

People have made the excuse, "Oh well it's the first monster hunter on a main console", but to me that's a dumb excuse. MH has been around forever, and there is no reason why the DS games or the Wii games or any of these games could have evolved the monsters in all this time. I've looked at previous games, MH 3 and 4, Generations, etc, and they are all the same thing. The monsters haven't changed. The Barroth in MHworld, fights exactly like the Barroth from 3, with the same mechanics of washing off the mud if you want. How does a game just not evolve in anyway like that?

I guess people just love getting the same game over and over with better graphics each time. And MHW certainly provides a beautiful graphic upgrade.

SAMAS:
Actually, there are quite a few shows out there where the first season or two is rough, then gets really good. Stargate SG-1, Babylon 5, Star Wars: The Clone Wars, and such.

That said, Monster Hunter usually does have you facing your first large monster in less than an hour, depending on how fast you go through the tutorial. Your encounters usually start with the "Great Drome" monsters because, frankly, the bigger stuff tends to paste you even when you do have those early fights under your belt.

Those Elder Dragons are like Final and Bonus Boss fights. The meat is stuff like the Rathalos, Lavasioth, and Anjanath(to say nothing of Lagiacrus, Zinogre, Tigrex, Brachydios, and the like from other games). Dude, the only thing better gear gives you is a better chance. Even with optimal weapons and armor, any monster at any difficulty level can cart you in seconds if you don't know how to fight it.

That has always been the meat of Monster Hunting. To read the Monster's "tells", know the limitations of it's attacks, and how to best exploit them with the weapons and equipment you have. To know how many times that Wyvern is gonna turn around and charge you again before it falls over and gives you a chance to sharpen your weapon, reload, or attack it with your biggest combo/swing. What the pattern/sweep of it's ranged attacks are so you can stand in a safe angle and hit it with your bowgun. When it's hungry enough to eat that drugged meat you dropped so you can sleep bomb it. What paths it usually takes when roaming so you can find it, what and where it eats when tired, or where it sleeps when it's wounded. If using a certain trap on it will only make it stronger, or if a certain bomb will just piss it off.

I am going to give MHW a whirl at some point, it's just that I heard how grindy the previous games were and I hate grindy games. I very rarely play RPGs now (not that MH is an RPG) because of how little the vast majority of them value the player's time. A game like Borderlands would be so much better without the looting aspect or at least save that until endgame because there's no reason to get an orange gun if you're not max level because it will be useless in an hour or so, then you have to find something to replace it. You spend way too much time doing inventory management for literally no reason in most RPGs or games with a loot system. Even in a Souls game (which is very light on inventory management), you only up your stats / upgrade you weapon to be able to kill enemies in the same 3-4 hits that you were just doing for the next dungeon of slightly tougher enemies, literally nothing changes. Just keep damage the same throughout if I'm just upgrading my stuff to continue making the game the same. The reason I like Borderlands is due to the skills and character builds that change gameplay, looting just gets in the way of the fun.

Commanderfantasy:
The point I was trying to suggest was to make these elemental types, or armor breaking REQUIRED, not just options. Options allow players to mindlessly fight and eventually win. But when a monster actually objective based goals required to defeat it, that's when the player is forced to think about the fight and pulls them into the game more.

That's exactly what I want out of a monster fighting game, a way to take down monsters in a way that makes sense because hitting some dragon in a Souls game over and over in the chin is not what I call a good boss fight. As long as that is in the game, I don't really care if you can just hit monsters over and over again in the chin and win as long as there are "proper" ways to fight the monsters. Most games have some kinda easy or lame way to beat everything. In Horizon, you can just freeze any machine and quick-shot the enemy to death with arrows in like 30 seconds. I choose not to do that because that's not fun to me. Or Dishonored can be played in a really easy and repetitive manner but the game gives the player almost limitless creativity and that's what I love about them. I haven't played MHW or any MH game, and I have a feeling when I do I'll either love it or hate it.

altnameJag:

Seth Carter:
High-rank monsters od get expanded movesets, too. The ones you fight in the story are sort of the watered down versions. Which is a design choice, though one that kind of baffles me somewhat in games. Destiny for example, was another game where tons of stuff from Legendary gear to coloring your outfit was locked in the post-game. Its an odd design logic, where the narrative compulsion is separated from the deeper tiers of gameplay, which doesn't give off a great first impression sometimes.

As to Anjanath, hit him with water if he starts sparking in the mouth, it stops him from breathing fire. Tobi Kadachi right before him (in the story) takes extra damage if you hit his electric charged bits with water (Or if you want to skip him charging up, hit him with flash pods or scatternuts when he jumps up on trees). Barroth and other monsters that use sand/mud armor get it broken instantly by water attacks.

For raw damage though, the elemental bonus gets kind of lost. Most elemental weapons do less base damage then the raw physical ones in the same tier, which cuts off most of the bonus damage. Its not really noticeable until you start getting into the high end.

The trick there is high attach speed weapons. A 120 Elemental damage rating does the same damage on a Great Sword as it does the dual knives, so take the weapon that gets to swing a lot.

Yeah, I caught a video on that one. I gunlance main, so element doesn't do me a whole lot of good, lol. Although Blast element seems to upgrade my shelling, I think.

This bow video really got me super interested in the game. I think I might have to get pick up the game really soon and I just finished Shadow Tactics today.

Phoenixmgs:
Although his praise for Nier Automata doesn't really instill the greatest amount of confidence into his opinions.

wait what's wrong with Nier? why isn't it good?

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