Kingdom Come: Deliverance releases this month!!

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Squilookle:
Meanwhile everyone else under the sun prefers third.

Not necessarily. While I've enjoyed a few melee games with the occasional third person, I usually find it much more satisfying from a first person vantage point. It's actually one of the things that initially attracted me to the Elder Scrolls series, oddly enough, to the point to where I play ESO with first person only.

I much prefer the visual perspective, especially since I don't need to lean on a third person camera to maintain a high level of combat awareness. If anything I find third person serves as more of a crutch.

I got my ship notification already for my Baron level pledge goods, to be delivered Monday. I forgot what was all included it's been so long ago.

Valok:
Weird, I was not notified that someone quoted me, sorry for the delay.

There's a bug that turns Quote Notifications off for everyone every once in a while (seems to be every sunday).

You can turn them back on by going into your profile, then clicking 'Forum and Notification Options' in the Profile Options section and setting Quote Notification back to 'Yes'.

It's temporary though and the underlying problem can sadly not be fixed, because there's no one left who can.

So there are no authorities left here? I'm surprised this isn't like the Wild West already. Sad how the good forums keep going belly up. The thriving ones like Gamespot and IGN are pretty much dumpster fires, go figure.

hanselthecaretaker:
So there are no authorities left here? I?m surprised this isn?t like the Wild West already. Sad how the good forums keep going belly up. The thriving ones like Gamespot and IGN are pretty much dumpster fires, go figure.

There are a bunch of mods left to reinforce order in the forums, but Defy media seems to have pretty much left the Escapist to its' fate with no staff and only one content provider that updates once a week.

Gethsemani:

hanselthecaretaker:
So there are no authorities left here? I?m surprised this isn?t like the Wild West already. Sad how the good forums keep going belly up. The thriving ones like Gamespot and IGN are pretty much dumpster fires, go figure.

There are a bunch of mods left to reinforce order in the forums, but Defy media seems to have pretty much left the Escapist to its' fate with no staff and only one content provider that updates once a week.

Yeah I wonder if Yathzee is on a contract or if they pay him per video.

Meiam:

Gethsemani:

hanselthecaretaker:
So there are no authorities left here? I?m surprised this isn?t like the Wild West already. Sad how the good forums keep going belly up. The thriving ones like Gamespot and IGN are pretty much dumpster fires, go figure.

There are a bunch of mods left to reinforce order in the forums, but Defy media seems to have pretty much left the Escapist to its' fate with no staff and only one content provider that updates once a week.

Yeah I wonder if Yathzee is on a contract or if they pay him per video.

Guessing contract as the rest of the site has been abandoned. Has he gone into this year yet?

At least it appears they don't own any other gaming sites. Maybe they should purchase Gamespot and IGN for good measure though, just to be safe.

Ender910:

Squilookle:
Meanwhile everyone else under the sun prefers third.

Not necessarily. While I've enjoyed a few melee games with the occasional third person, I usually find it much more satisfying from a first person vantage point. It's actually one of the things that initially attracted me to the Elder Scrolls series, oddly enough, to the point to where I play ESO with first person only.

I much prefer the visual perspective, especially since I don't need to lean on a third person camera to maintain a high level of combat awareness. If anything I find third person serves as more of a crutch.

Count me in as preferring first person. I even play Mount and Blade mostly in first person.

While this game does not seem to be my jam, its nice to see folks excited for something a little differerent that fills a gap in their gaming wants and desires.

Hope its fun for you all :)

Squilookle:
If that's true, I'll probably get it the moment I see footage of that working properly. No thanks to the game devs themselves though.

Functionality of third person view will depend largely on how the combat works. If there's something about combat that makes it work properly only in first person, then modders are gonna have to do more than a simple camera edit to make third person view fully functional.

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Adam Jensen:

Squilookle:
If that's true, I'll probably get it the moment I see footage of that working properly. No thanks to the game devs themselves though.

Functionality of third person view will depend largely on how the combat works. If there's something about combat that makes it work properly only in first person, then modders are gonna have to do more than a simple camera edit to make third person view fully functional.

Yes, Adam, that's why I said I would wait to see footage of it working properly.

Ftaghn To You Too:

Ender910:

Squilookle:
Meanwhile everyone else under the sun prefers third.

Not necessarily. While I've enjoyed a few melee games with the occasional third person, I usually find it much more satisfying from a first person vantage point. It's actually one of the things that initially attracted me to the Elder Scrolls series, oddly enough, to the point to where I play ESO with first person only.

I much prefer the visual perspective, especially since I don't need to lean on a third person camera to maintain a high level of combat awareness. If anything I find third person serves as more of a crutch.

Count me in as preferring first person. I even play Mount and Blade mostly in first person.

3rd person = fashion
1st person = no fashion

If it's a game with lots of armor and weapon upgrades, I think 3rd person is much preferable because you can watch your character's appearance evolve.

Also, 3rd person is usually better for melee combat because of spacial awareness.

Can you imagine the Souls games in 1st person? That would suck. No Fashion Souls!

My edition also came with the soundtrack. Listening to it now, but haven't installed the discs yet until I find out what's going on with this massive day 1 patch.

From reviews it's looking like a great game hampered by some poor optimization and bugs. Hopefully the day 1 patch fixes some of the issues, though I'll give it a couple of months before picking up a copy.

Wow... I lived long enough to see someone do a modern version of Darklands.

Dirty Hipsters:
From reviews it's looking like a great game hampered by some poor optimization and bugs. Hopefully the day 1 patch fixes some of the issues, though I'll give it a couple of months before picking up a copy.

Seems like this is becoming the new norm. And I don't think it's necessarily due to ineptitude. I think for some companies it's their business model. Instead of paying employees to play-test and debug, just go ahead and release it and let the customers pay you to find all the bugs, and then fix it reactively.

So if I see complaints about buginess in the reviews, I'm like you. Just wait a few months. Give them time to finish the game with patches.

So I tried this game on a whim last night, and was bombarded with incredible amounts of Historical bullshit. Even during gameplay tutorials the game goes out of it's way to explain how nobility works in comparison to your speech and appearance stats. It was a lot to read.

Honestly the game is really trying to appeal to people super into Historically accurate settings and mannerisms. If you don't really care about the historical setting and aspect of the game, the actual gameplay is just a shitty Elder Scrolls game with no magic. The game was so off-putting and the bombardment of historical facts, turned me off really quickly. So I refunded the game and took a hard pass on the game.

I will say a couple of other things I noticed. The voice acting feels very clipped, which makes the dialog feel very video gamey. I dunno if it is an audio bug, but voice lines just cut off abruptly right at the end of sentences that gave everyone a cut-off feel to the talking. The graphics themselves feel very last gen imo. The environments are okay when looked at from afar, but once you try to examine anything you'll see extremely poor textures for everything. The faces all give me a L.A. Noire feel, were it just looks like badly animated digitized actors on every face.

Ultimately, it might be a fine game if History is your thing. But if you aren't super into historical accuracy in a game, this probably isn't the game for you.

CritialGaming:
So I tried this game on a whim last night, and was bombarded with incredible amounts of Historical bullshit. Even during gameplay tutorials the game goes out of it's way to explain how nobility works in comparison to your speech and appearance stats. It was a lot to read.

Honestly the game is really trying to appeal to people super into Historically accurate settings and mannerisms. If you don't really care about the historical setting and aspect of the game, the actual gameplay is just a shitty Elder Scrolls game with no magic. The game was so off-putting and the bombardment of historical facts, turned me off really quickly. So I refunded the game and took a hard pass on the game.

I will say a couple of other things I noticed. The voice acting feels very clipped, which makes the dialog feel very video gamey. I dunno if it is an audio bug, but voice lines just cut off abruptly right at the end of sentences that gave everyone a cut-off feel to the talking. The graphics themselves feel very last gen imo. The environments are okay when looked at from afar, but once you try to examine anything you'll see extremely poor textures for everything. The faces all give me a L.A. Noire feel, were it just looks like badly animated digitized actors on every face.

Ultimately, it might be a fine game if History is your thing. But if you aren't super into historical accuracy in a game, this probably isn't the game for you.

Was Elder Scrolls combat ever good in the first place? Saying the gameplay here is a shitty version of it doesn't accomplish much, especially without attempting to actually learn it. This review for example details it as quite the opposite.

There are very few games out there lately with gameplay as deep and rewarding as what's apparently in KC:D. Having the time for it might be another story for some (myself included), but that alone shouldn't diminish its standing.

Watched a stream of the opening hours, the game looked kind of dull and shitty. Like a combination of Oblivion and Gothic, with animation quality about on-par with those two games. And it definitely has the that hardcore Eurojank thing going on, too.

hanselthecaretaker:

Was Elder Scrolls combat ever good in the first place? Saying the gameplay here is a shitty version of it doesn?t accomplish much, especially without attempting to actually learn it. This review for example details it as quite the opposite.

There are very few games out there lately with gameplay as deep and rewarding as what?s apparently in KC:D. Having the time for it might be another story for some (myself included), but that alone shouldn?t diminish its standing.

No, Elder Scrolls doesn't have fantastic gameplay, and the game play here is worse. At least from what I've seen. The generic punching animation is terrible, the way characters walk around the world seem like they are all with sticks up their asses. It's just not good. The stats do seem like a deep system, however Skyrim has a lot of stats you can level, but they don't end up meaning much at the end of the day so I wonder if KC:D will end up the same way.

Like I said, you really have to be into a realistic historical setting to get anything out of this game, because the gameplay isn't going to win anyone over who isn't already on board with the theme.

To me that sounds awesome. How many other games have this level of detail and strategy? Of course, it's impossible to actually know what it's like to play if you're just watching someone else. Also, considering they had a fraction of the budget of an Elder Scrolls game, and developed a far more detailed combat system behind them, I'm far more inclined to forgive Warhorse for their animation shortcomings than Bethesda.

hanselthecaretaker:

To me that sounds awesome. How many other games have this level of detail and strategy? Of course, it?s impossible to actually know what it?s like to play if you?re just watching someone else. Also, considering they had a fraction of the budget of an Elder Scrolls game, and developed a far more detailed combat system behind them, I?m far more inclined to forgive Warhorse for their animation shortcomings than Bethesda.

That sounds basically like the exact same melee combat system that was in Morrowind, but with more directions (Morrowind had 3).

Put about 7 hours into it so far and I'm finding it very immersive. I like it how at the start you are -terrible- at combat and your character needs genuine lessons.

A great setting driven game embracing the idea of a rags to riches story in the late 13th early 14th century.

You won't play this for its gameplay. You'll play it for the setting.

Abomination:
Put about 7 hours into it so far and I'm finding it very immersive. I like it how at the start you are -terrible- at combat and your character needs genuine lessons.

A great setting driven game embracing the idea of a rags to riches story in the late 13th early 14th century.

You won't play this for its gameplay. You'll play it for the setting.

Eurogamer had a good write up on it a few months back explaining how much depth it has to offer in the face of its shortcomings. It's actually pretty amazing that a game this ambitious in scope and scale was pulled off as well as it was on a limited budget. Hopefully the next patch clears up the more pressing bugs.

I find there are a few quality of life changes the game needs. Things like there being no cross-hair in ranged combat or any indication as to the falloff to expect isn't "immersive". An archer has a good general idea where their shot would go. A better system would be a circle that gradually gets smaller to represent where the shot would probably go based on the skill of the player, draw power being used and the type of bow.

The fact there aren't crossbows in the game is a big concern as well. They would have been far more prominent in Bohemia than the longbows, composite bows and recurve bows on display.

I've been playing it for a while. It's a good game but deeply, deeply flawed. And I mean beyond the atrocious optimisation and QA.

I mean probably the best example is the save system. The game autosaves as you advance quests (mostly....sometimes it doesn't). You can save by sleeping, but there's no manual save unless you possess and consume a special potion (which is pretty expensive). This is an odd, unintuitive and rather idiotic design decision. It adds nothing to immersion and all it does is incovenience the player for no good reason.

So of course, it got modded out within a day. Hurray!

Aside from that, it's typical eurojank. Expect to be absolute tripe at everything until you put a good 10-12 hours, although if you're good you can still win fights you shouldn't. For example, I defeated a fully armored knight with nothing but an arming sword and my intimate knowledge of the combo system. And also stabbing.

Melee combat is pretty deep. You got a stamina bar, you got five directions of attack, you got combos (and you unlock more combos as your weapon skill advances), it's pretty neat. Armor matters, a lot, as do shields (although I'm going light-ish armor and no shield and doing fine so far.) Bows are absolute murder machines once you level them, but until you do, good luck hitting anything further than five feet away. Aside from swaying like you were drunk off yer arse, there's no crosshair. Well, not unless you use a console command, of course!

Four stats (Strength, Agility, Vitality, Speech) and loads and loads of skills. You level these up like in the Elder Scrolls, by using them. The difference is that, while there's a general level, you don't build towards that by levelling skills, only stats. In essence, you could theoretically be General Level 1, Sword 8, though it's practically impossible since stats (except speech) go up fastest in combat. It does however avoid the Skyrim conundrum of levelling smithing and then having to face OP enemies, although the game already avoids this by having no level scaling.

Overall, as said, flawed gem. Give it a couple of months for patches and it will be a classic. Even what is there now is impressive, considering Warhorse's size and budget.

TheFinish:
This is an odd, unintuitive and rather idiotic design decision. It adds nothing to immersion and all it does is incovenience the player for no good reason.

So of course, it got modded out within a day. Hurray!

I get the idea. The idea is to prevent save scumming so players are more likely to live with the fallout of their decisions. Don't know that it worked, but I get the reason for the design choice.

TheFinish:
Aside from that, it's typical eurojank. Expect to be absolute tripe at everything until you put a good 10-12 hours, although if you're good you can still win fights you shouldn't. For example, I defeated a fully armored knight with nothing but an arming sword and my intimate knowledge of the combo system. And also stabbing.

I mean you are the son of a blacksmith, literally an illiterate peasant. Of course you're absolute tripe at most things to start with.

Schadrach:
I get the idea. The idea is to prevent save scumming so players are more likely to live with the fallout of their decisions. Don't know that it worked, but I get the reason for the design choice.

I do too, but the inclusion of an exit save would go a long way to making me consider this game. Just knowing that I can quickly save (even if it means I have to exit the game) when family life calls would make the whole system a lot easier on us.

Of course, the disaster of infrequent saves and crashes would remain, which is one of the reasons why auto-save systems should save early and often.

Schadrach:
I mean you are the son of a blacksmith, literally an illiterate peasant. Of course you're absolute tripe at most things to start with.

Realism is one thing (though a game that lacks crossbows in 1403 does not get to use the realism card), but when it gets in the way of fun by forcing the player to play a gimped version of the game for a dozen hours it sure gets tedious. If you've got a deep combat system with combos, parries, ripostes and all, but it takes the player around 10 hours of dedicated sword murdering to get to that part, you're doing something wrong.

Think of it this way, the first time around we can all push through the boring "being shit" segment because we are caught up trying to learn the game, figuring out the world and just generally admiring the work that's gone into the game. So when the novelty wears off some 15-20 hours in, my character is good enough that I can keep enjoying the combat system.
But if I want to do a second playthrough? If I want to see some of all those other decisions and outcomes that this game brags about? What if I want to remain an illiterate brute instead of the refined, omniglot smooth talker my first playthrough was? Yeah, I just have to endure 10 hours of simplified combat, restrictive quest resolving due to lack of skills and generally just playing a much more gimped version of the game, because it is realistic (but still no crossbows)...

Schadrach:

TheFinish:
This is an odd, unintuitive and rather idiotic design decision. It adds nothing to immersion and all it does is incovenience the player for no good reason.

So of course, it got modded out within a day. Hurray!

I get the idea. The idea is to prevent save scumming so players are more likely to live with the fallout of their decisions. Don't know that it worked, but I get the reason for the design choice.

TheFinish:
Aside from that, it's typical eurojank. Expect to be absolute tripe at everything until you put a good 10-12 hours, although if you're good you can still win fights you shouldn't. For example, I defeated a fully armored knight with nothing but an arming sword and my intimate knowledge of the combo system. And also stabbing.

I mean you are the son of a blacksmith, literally an illiterate peasant. Of course you're absolute tripe at most things to start with.

The save solution would've been to have the game automatically save whenever you do anything significant, via Souls and Darkest Dungeon. It's like save scumming without a safety net!

Squilookle:
Snip

Wait isn't their already footage of the combat?

BreakfastMan:

hanselthecaretaker:

To me that sounds awesome. How many other games have this level of detail and strategy? Of course, it?s impossible to actually know what it?s like to play if you?re just watching someone else. Also, considering they had a fraction of the budget of an Elder Scrolls game, and developed a far more detailed combat system behind them, I?m far more inclined to forgive Warhorse for their animation shortcomings than Bethesda.

That sounds basically like the exact same melee combat system that was in Morrowind, but with more directions (Morrowind had 3).

Wait doesn't Morrowind have an attack roll system? Like you make an attack roll to see if you hit or not?

Bombiz:

Wait doesn't Morrowind have an attack roll system? Like you make an attack roll to see if you hit or not?

It does, the choice of attack motion also only determines the number of damage done and has no other impact, so a spear is always better to thrust with, for example. There are only a few weapons where the choice of attack motion is meaningful (higher minimum damage on some attacks, but higher max on others which means you should switch up depending on if you are charging your attacks or just spamming as fast as possible). So no, the two are not very similar.

A better comparison is Mount & Blade, which is the obvious inspiration for KC:D.

Schadrach:

TheFinish:
This is an odd, unintuitive and rather idiotic design decision. It adds nothing to immersion and all it does is incovenience the player for no good reason.

So of course, it got modded out within a day. Hurray!

I get the idea. The idea is to prevent save scumming so players are more likely to live with the fallout of their decisions. Don't know that it worked, but I get the reason for the design choice.

TheFinish:
Aside from that, it's typical eurojank. Expect to be absolute tripe at everything until you put a good 10-12 hours, although if you're good you can still win fights you shouldn't. For example, I defeated a fully armored knight with nothing but an arming sword and my intimate knowledge of the combo system. And also stabbing.

I mean you are the son of a blacksmith, literally an illiterate peasant. Of course you're absolute tripe at most things to start with.

I, too, get their intent, but it's tremendously dumb intent. For one, you can still save-scum around choices just by having the potion. For two, most of the choices take hours to come to fruition, so even if you did want to save scum you'll lose a lot of progress. So all this does is make it really annoying to explore the world, you know, one of the biggest draws of an open world rpg?

To say nothing of losing progress due to crashes. Because the game is terribly unstable still.

As for the second point, I'd grant it to you, except I get nothing for being a blacksmith's son either. I mean, it's pretty obvious I helped dad at the forge, so why don't I start with some points in Maintenance, to represent I can take care of weapons? It's also implied I got into trouble with the mates, so why isn't my Unarmed a bit better?

I mean, I get what they're going for, but if you want to give me a character with some history, give me skills that make sense.

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