Apparently Riot has some problem with women: nasty behind-the-scenes stuff

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So Kotaku has recently published an article interviewing Riot staff (mostly women) and shows the darker inner workings of the company

https://kotaku.com/inside-the-culture-of-sexism-at-riot-games-1828165483

considering this Kotaku I would understand you may think that this is sjw clickbait. But a bunch of riot employees have given Credence to the article. (credit to the Reddit user naxter48 for compiling this list.)

some of my favorite quotes include.

One former male employee said that Riot's "bro culture" is more pronounced behind closed doors, and hurts men too: One of Riot's male senior leaders regularly grabbed his genitals, the source said, adding, "If he walked into a meeting with no women he'd just fart on someone's face."

One former Riot employee who presented as a woman, for example, has always played role-playing games, and said as much during their 2014 phone interview for a position at Riot not at all adjacent to games development. The interviewer then asked if they played "real games like Call of Duty," they recalled.

After an idea she really believed in fell flat during a meeting, she asked a male colleague to present the same idea to the same group of people days later. He was skeptical, but she insisted that he give it a shot. "Lo and behold, the week after that, [he] went in, presented exactly as I did and the whole room was like, 'Oh my gosh, this is amazing.' [His] face turned beet red and he had tears in his eyes," said Lacy. "They just didn't respect women."

"Both male and female sources have described seeing unsolicited and unwelcome pictures of male genitalia from bosses or colleagues. One woman saw an e-mail thread about what it would be like to "penetrate her," in which a colleague added that she'd be a good target to sleep with and not call again. Another said a colleague once informed her, apparently as a compliment, that she was on a list getting passed around by senior leaders detailing who they'd sleep with."

I have to say this is really disheartening, the more I hear about the gaming industry the more it just sounds like a job where other people punch you in the face repeatedly.

This isn't really surprising to me, they spend a lot of money on crap that doesn't support the game and it screams nepotism to me. Like there was this stupid board game they made a couple years ago that didn't go anywhere and the first thought that went through my head was: "somebody got their friends a job". If weird dead end projects like that can get funding from the higher ups, it stands to reason that it has evolved into a creepy boy's club.

Hopefully this news puts some pressure on Riot to publicly apologize/fire employees for this shitty work culture and sexual harassment.

Read the article awhile ago. Also saw another group of people react to it, with the usual "damn SJWs" mindset.

But to be honest, it's depressing. Depressing that this kind of behaviour is occurring, and depressing that attempts to draw attention to it are going to be shouted down as enforcing "political correctness" or somesuch.

I remember something from a long time ago. Very hazy, I cant remember specifics. Pre-GG (but not by much, I think even in the same year). Wasn't there a controversy with Riot about some sort of competition and not allowing women to play or something. I want to say it happened in a Scandinavian, but I really cant remember

Why is this really not all that surprising with a name like "Riot"? Guessing whoever named the studio is probably still around too.

tf2godz:
So Kotaku has recently published an article interviewing Riot staff (mostly women) and shows the darker inner workings of the company

https://kotaku.com/inside-the-culture-of-sexism-at-riot-games-1828165483

considering this Kotaku I would understand you may think that this is sjw clickbait. But a bunch of riot employees have given Credence to the article. (credit to the Reddit user naxter48 for compiling this list.)

some of my favorite quotes include.

One former male employee said that Riot?s ?bro culture? is more pronounced behind closed doors, and hurts men too: One of Riot?s male senior leaders regularly grabbed his genitals, the source said, adding, ?If he walked into a meeting with no women he?d just fart on someone?s face.?

One former Riot employee who presented as a woman, for example, has always played role-playing games, and said as much during their 2014 phone interview for a position at Riot not at all adjacent to games development. The interviewer then asked if they played ?real games like Call of Duty,? they recalled.

After an idea she really believed in fell flat during a meeting, she asked a male colleague to present the same idea to the same group of people days later. He was skeptical, but she insisted that he give it a shot. ?Lo and behold, the week after that, [he] went in, presented exactly as I did and the whole room was like, ?Oh my gosh, this is amazing.? [His] face turned beet red and he had tears in his eyes,? said Lacy. ?They just didn?t respect women.?

"Both male and female sources have described seeing unsolicited and unwelcome pictures of male genitalia from bosses or colleagues. One woman saw an e-mail thread about what it would be like to ?penetrate her,? in which a colleague added that she?d be a good target to sleep with and not call again. Another said a colleague once informed her, apparently as a compliment, that she was on a list getting passed around by senior leaders detailing who they?d sleep with."

I have to say this is really disheartening, the more I hear about the gaming industry the more it just sounds like a job where other people punch you in the face repeatedly.

Jesus fucking Christ what a bunch of fuckng idiots.

Not surprised. They allow their customers to be harassed too.

I just... I don't understand people like this.

I don't understand why it's so hard to just not be an utter cockwomble.
Millions of people manage to be decent human beings every day. Why is it so hard for others? D:

captainsavvy:
I just... I don't understand people like this.

I don't understand why it's so hard to just not be an utter cockwomble.
Millions of people manage to be decent human beings every day. Why is it so hard for others? D:

It's depressingly common not just in gaming, but also in the tech sector. A lot of people in the industry subscribe to very technolibertarian views and thus not only is acting like a frat boy tolerated, it's encouraged. Video games being a creative industry also encourages dickbags to think of themselves as "auteurs" thus why there are so many assholes playing the Misunderstood, Tortured Artist card whenever people call them out on their bullshit.

Aiddon:

captainsavvy:
I just... I don't understand people like this.

I don't understand why it's so hard to just not be an utter cockwomble.
Millions of people manage to be decent human beings every day. Why is it so hard for others? D:

It's depressingly common not just in gaming, but also in the tech sector. A lot of people in the industry subscribe to very technolibertarian views and thus not only is acting like a frat boy tolerated, it's encouraged. Video games being a creative industry also encourages dickbags to think of themselves as "auteurs" thus why there are so many assholes playing the Misunderstood, Tortured Artist card whenever people call them out on their bullshit.

I don't think it is exactly that.

Look these people grew up being socially awkward nerds, spending friday nights alone in their dark rooms playing video games, play D&D with a bunch of other nerds.

When these people are put into a population in which interaction with females is required, they are still awkward as hell. It don't matter that they are supposed to be adults, if they didn't grow up learning social skills they simply wont have them. And let's face it, a lot of really good coders and artists are kind of on the autistic spectrum.

I know what people are going to say to me right now too, "That's bullshit, you don't know that about people. They should know better." And you'd be right, they SHOULD know better. But look, I play a lot of D&D and my local game store, Magic the Gathering, and I used to work for Activision/Blizzard in IT. I can 100% tell you that some of these people have absolutely NO CLUE how to talk to people.

It's not just women they can't talk to either. It's everybody. They are just plan strange, and their social abilities are non-existent. The reason why it always comes to a harassment issue with women in the work place is that these guys not only have no concept that work isn't the place to be flirting with people, but also that they plain don't know how to even have a normal conversation.

I don't understand why people are surprised. Look women should have the right and the ability to do whatever job they want, achieve whatever they want in life. But sometimes men and women don't mix. I'd never want to see a co-ed fighting league or sporting (football, basketball, etc) competition because someone is going to get really hurt. Boys and girls are different, and there are plenty of situations in which they work together and mix together very well, but there are also some situations you are better off avoiding.

All that being said, what I discribe is more like the Quantum dream situation and the situations I've seen working in the industry myself.

The article on Riot however....I don't know. It seems kind of extreme, and reads like a frat house environment in which no workplace anywhere ever would be allowed to be and feels fabricated. Not saying that some of what is written doesn't happen, but I don't think it can be quite as flagrant as they say.

The worst part is that if they don't see their own faults by themselves, there is no way to bring them out of their believe (the believe that they aren't in the wrong). I simply don't know how to explain such people why they should care about others (or at least why they shouldn't strive to make the life of those around them miserable).

One former male employee said that Riot's "bro culture" is more pronounced behind closed doors, and hurts men too: One of Riot's male senior leaders regularly grabbed his genitals, the source said, adding, "If he walked into a meeting with no women he'd just fart on someone's face."

When they say "senior", do they mean high-school senior or something?

CaitSeith:
The worst part is that if they don't see their own faults by themselves, there is no way to bring them out of their believe (the believe that they aren't in the wrong). I simply don't know how to explain such people why they should care about others.

One former male employee said that Riot's "bro culture" is more pronounced behind closed doors, and hurts men too: One of Riot's male senior leaders regularly grabbed his genitals, the source said, adding, "If he walked into a meeting with no women he'd just fart on someone's face."

When they say "senior", do they mean high-school senior or something?

Right? That is one of the statements that just feels fake to me. Like how in the fuck would any workplace allow for that in anyway. Did they hire the entire cast of Van Wilder or something? Like what frat house did they build Riot Studios in?

Commanderfantasy:
Like how in the fuck would any workplace allow for that in anyway.

Why shouldn't it be allowed? I mean, the people at the top encourage it, there are no unions to tell them what shouldn't be allowed, the owning company doesn't care for bad publicity, and the stockholders don't give a crap. Under those conditions, if the leadership wants the workplace to be as a frat house, no one who cares has the power to change that.

Commanderfantasy:

Aiddon:

captainsavvy:
I just... I don't understand people like this.

I don't understand why it's so hard to just not be an utter cockwomble.
Millions of people manage to be decent human beings every day. Why is it so hard for others? D:

It's depressingly common not just in gaming, but also in the tech sector. A lot of people in the industry subscribe to very technolibertarian views and thus not only is acting like a frat boy tolerated, it's encouraged. Video games being a creative industry also encourages dickbags to think of themselves as "auteurs" thus why there are so many assholes playing the Misunderstood, Tortured Artist card whenever people call them out on their bullshit.

I don't think it is exactly that.

Look these people grew up being socially awkward nerds, spending friday nights alone in their dark rooms playing video games, play D&D with a bunch of other nerds.

When these people are put into a population in which interaction with females is required, they are still awkward as hell. It don't matter that they are supposed to be adults, if they didn't grow up learning social skills they simply wont have them. And let's face it, a lot of really good coders and artists are kind of on the autistic spectrum.

I know what people are going to say to me right now too, "That's bullshit, you don't know that about people. They should know better." And you'd be right, they SHOULD know better. But look, I play a lot of D&D and my local game store, Magic the Gathering, and I used to work for Activision/Blizzard in IT. I can 100% tell you that some of these people have absolutely NO CLUE how to talk to people.

It's not just women they can't talk to either. It's everybody. They are just plan strange, and their social abilities are non-existent. The reason why it always comes to a harassment issue with women in the work place is that these guys not only have no concept that work isn't the place to be flirting with people, but also that they plain don't know how to even have a normal conversation.

I don't understand why people are surprised. Look women should have the right and the ability to do whatever job they want, achieve whatever they want in life. But sometimes men and women don't mix. I'd never want to see a co-ed fighting league or sporting (football, basketball, etc) competition because someone is going to get really hurt. Boys and girls are different, and there are plenty of situations in which they work together and mix together very well, but there are also some situations you are better off avoiding.

All that being said, what I discribe is more like the Quantum dream situation and the situations I've seen working in the industry myself.

The article on Riot however....I don't know. It seems kind of extreme, and reads like a frat house environment in which no workplace anywhere ever would be allowed to be and feels fabricated. Not saying that some of what is written doesn't happen, but I don't think it can be quite as flagrant as they say.

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

Mothro:

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

Certainly feels that way these days. Pretty sad that a woman can simply end you entire career by just saying she felt nervous around you or your workplace. It scary because even when aligations are proven false the men are still screwed.

Commanderfantasy:

Mothro:

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

Certainly feels that way these days. Pretty sad that a woman can simply end you entire career by just saying she felt nervous around you or your workplace. It scary because even when aligations are proven false the men are still screwed.

I...what careers are being sent under here?

altnameJag:

Commanderfantasy:

Mothro:

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

Certainly feels that way these days. Pretty sad that a woman can simply end you entire career by just saying she felt nervous around you or your workplace. It scary because even when aligations are proven false the men are still screwed.

I...what careers are being sent under here?

Not here. Just a general statement on the goings around.

Commanderfantasy:

Mothro:

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

Certainly feels that way these days. Pretty sad that a woman can simply end you entire career by just saying she felt nervous around you or your workplace. It scary because even when aligations are proven false the men are still screwed.

It's true. Article after article about how bad women have it but when men have it rough....no one wants to talk about that.

Mothro:

Commanderfantasy:

Mothro:

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

Certainly feels that way these days. Pretty sad that a woman can simply end you entire career by just saying she felt nervous around you or your workplace. It scary because even when aligations are proven false the men are still screwed.

It's true. Article after article about how bad women have it but when men have it rough....no one wants to talk about that.

You could... Just write an article. From people I know, the part about males getting treat poorly is true. Woman having issues doesn't negate that. It's not a competition. At the moment owners can just ignore complaints, because women. They can't if both sexes are complaining about similar things.

trunkage:

Mothro:

Commanderfantasy:

Certainly feels that way these days. Pretty sad that a woman can simply end you entire career by just saying she felt nervous around you or your workplace. It scary because even when aligations are proven false the men are still screwed.

It's true. Article after article about how bad women have it but when men have it rough....no one wants to talk about that.

You could... Just write an article. From people I know, the part about males getting treat poorly is true. Woman having issues doesn't negate that. It's not a competition. At the moment owners can just ignore complaints, because women. They can't if both sexes are complaining about similar things.

I am not a writer nor do I need to write an article to point out the obvious. We don't see many articles about how hard it is for socially isolated men. Indeed, those people are often called nasty names like incels.

You'll notice I said that no one wants to talk about it. It's not that some people don't write about it, it's just that the masses have no interest in anything except ignoring or burying it. In this thread there was a well written post about this but here you are saying 'why don't YOU write an article'.

Of course any spokesperson of the company is gonna deny stuff and say they value proper feedback and don't tolerate harassment all that jazz. But if you've got 2 dozen or more employees, former and current, telling you your company has fucked up with making them feel welcome, your company has fucked up with making them feel welcome.
If this is all true, then it's great to see that the company itself is as putrid and disgustingly toxic as its rabid ugly fanbase. Inb4 "not all LoL players", I've heard enough to know I'd never, ever wanna touch that community with a planet sized pole

Mothro:

trunkage:

Mothro:

It's true. Article after article about how bad women have it but when men have it rough....no one wants to talk about that.

You could... Just write an article. From people I know, the part about males getting treat poorly is true. Woman having issues doesn't negate that. It's not a competition. At the moment owners can just ignore complaints, because women. They can't if both sexes are complaining about similar things.

I am not a writer nor do I need to write an article to point out the obvious. We don't see many articles about how hard it is for socially isolated men. Indeed, those people are often called nasty names like incels.

You'll notice I said that no one wants to talk about it. It's not that some people don't write about it, it's just that the masses have no interest in anything except ignoring or burying it. In this thread there was a well written post about this but here you are saying 'why don't YOU write an article'.

Look, I would buy claims but I am not really interested in it for either gender. This is one occurrence about females in Riot and no males, so I don't know what your saying is true about articles being written. I would say society has a bias against males assuming that they can't be rapes or sexually harassed. Take a look at cases of female teacher with male students. A lot of people think that the boy is lucky, not raped. So in that essence your correct.

And I thought Incels were the ones calling themselves Incels.

trunkage:

Mothro:

trunkage:
You could... Just write an article. From people I know, the part about males getting treat poorly is true. Woman having issues doesn't negate that. It's not a competition. At the moment owners can just ignore complaints, because women. They can't if both sexes are complaining about similar things.

I am not a writer nor do I need to write an article to point out the obvious. We don't see many articles about how hard it is for socially isolated men. Indeed, those people are often called nasty names like incels.

You'll notice I said that no one wants to talk about it. It's not that some people don't write about it, it's just that the masses have no interest in anything except ignoring or burying it. In this thread there was a well written post about this but here you are saying 'why don't YOU write an article'.

Look, I would buy claims but I am not really interested in it for either gender. This is one occurrence about females in Riot and no males, so I don't know what your saying is true about articles being written. I would say society has a bias against males assuming that they can't be rapes or sexually harassed. Take a look at cases of female teacher with male students. A lot of people think that the boy is lucky, not raped. So in that essence your correct.

And I thought Incels were the ones calling themselves Incels.

No, incels is the new insult. It's getting up there with Nazi's.

Anyway, yeah decades of feminism has brought us to the point that males are considered a danger to women and children and that has a huge impact on the ability for people to feel empathy for males. Males are just guilty of whatever negative thing they are accused of.

Commanderfantasy:

Aiddon:

captainsavvy:
I just... I don't understand people like this.

I don't understand why it's so hard to just not be an utter cockwomble.
Millions of people manage to be decent human beings every day. Why is it so hard for others? D:

It's depressingly common not just in gaming, but also in the tech sector. A lot of people in the industry subscribe to very technolibertarian views and thus not only is acting like a frat boy tolerated, it's encouraged. Video games being a creative industry also encourages dickbags to think of themselves as "auteurs" thus why there are so many assholes playing the Misunderstood, Tortured Artist card whenever people call them out on their bullshit.

I don't think it is exactly that.

Look these people grew up being socially awkward nerds, spending friday nights alone in their dark rooms playing video games, play D&D with a bunch of other nerds.

When these people are put into a population in which interaction with females is required, they are still awkward as hell. It don't matter that they are supposed to be adults, if they didn't grow up learning social skills they simply wont have them. And let's face it, a lot of really good coders and artists are kind of on the autistic spectrum.

I know what people are going to say to me right now too, "That's bullshit, you don't know that about people. They should know better." And you'd be right, they SHOULD know better. But look, I play a lot of D&D and my local game store, Magic the Gathering, and I used to work for Activision/Blizzard in IT. I can 100% tell you that some of these people have absolutely NO CLUE how to talk to people.

It's not just women they can't talk to either. It's everybody. They are just plan strange, and their social abilities are non-existent. The reason why it always comes to a harassment issue with women in the work place is that these guys not only have no concept that work isn't the place to be flirting with people, but also that they plain don't know how to even have a normal conversation.

I don't understand why people are surprised. Look women should have the right and the ability to do whatever job they want, achieve whatever they want in life. But sometimes men and women don't mix. I'd never want to see a co-ed fighting league or sporting (football, basketball, etc) competition because someone is going to get really hurt. Boys and girls are different, and there are plenty of situations in which they work together and mix together very well, but there are also some situations you are better off avoiding.

All that being said, what I discribe is more like the Quantum dream situation and the situations I've seen working in the industry myself.

The article on Riot however....I don't know. It seems kind of extreme, and reads like a frat house environment in which no workplace anywhere ever would be allowed to be and feels fabricated. Not saying that some of what is written doesn't happen, but I don't think it can be quite as flagrant as they say.

Uh, yeah hi. Lonely loser who grew up with practically no friends through most of middle school, had ONE friend for most of high-school, and didn't get any female friends until college. And apparently early on a doctor wanted to have me tested for autism because I showed a lot of the symptoms but my mother never went through with it, so I don't know if I'm on the spectrum or not, but apparently a doctor thought I was worth checking.

These people fucking disgust me. They're not badly adjusted outsiders, they're just fucking pricks! The people talked about in the articles, they don't act like nerds, they act like fucking fratboys, which is about as far away as you can get from a nerd's attitude.

And then you make your point really confusing by talking about how these people apparently don't know how to talk to anyone but apparently the problem is men and women don't mix. First of all that contradicts what you were saying earlier, secondly the idea of men and women not being able to work together due to interactions is a load of garbage that is perpetuated by people not being able to act like mature adults. As a lonely loser, I managed to figure that out before I turned thirty, what's the excuse for these assholes?

Mothro:

Commanderfantasy:

Mothro:

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

Certainly feels that way these days. Pretty sad that a woman can simply end you entire career by just saying she felt nervous around you or your workplace. It scary because even when aligations are proven false the men are still screwed.

It's true. Article after article about how bad women have it but when men have it rough....no one wants to talk about that.

You know. As a man who struggles with depression, one of those unique problems men face and have more problems with than women, I really despise it when this happens. Because every time someone goes "What about men's problems!" in response to someone pointing out a woman's problems, I don't feel like you're sticking up for me. I feel like you're using me as a tool to make feminists shut up. I don't know, maybe if I saw you talking about male suicide...like ever...I'd feel differently. But you don't. As such, it doesn't really come off like you actually give a crap about male problems or my problems as a man. So I'll ask you very kindly to not use me as a weapon against people who had the audacity to speak up about their problems because they weren't the type you felt like talking about (not that you seem that interested in talking about my problems either.)

If you actually care about men's problems, do something other than bashing feminists. Speaking as a man with a man's problem, it does nothing to help me and just makes me feel insulted. That does wonders for my depression.

Commanderfantasy:

Look these people grew up being socially awkward nerds, spending friday nights alone in their dark rooms playing video games, play D&D with a bunch of other nerds.

When these people are put into a population in which interaction with females is required, they are still awkward as hell. It don't matter that they are supposed to be adults, if they didn't grow up learning social skills they simply wont have them. And let's face it, a lot of really good coders and artists are kind of on the autistic spectrum.

I know what people are going to say to me right now too, "That's bullshit, you don't know that about people. They should know better." And you'd be right, they SHOULD know better. But look, I play a lot of D&D and my local game store, Magic the Gathering, and I used to work for Activision/Blizzard in IT. I can 100% tell you that some of these people have absolutely NO CLUE how to talk to people.

Actually I was going to say something along the lines that social awkwardness doesn't excuse someone being a dick - my sympathy for one's lack of social skills stops short when they start to harm others.

I don't understand why people are surprised. Look women should have the right and the ability to do whatever job they want, achieve whatever they want in life. But sometimes men and women don't mix. I'd never want to see a co-ed fighting league or sporting (football, basketball, etc) competition because someone is going to get really hurt. Boys and girls are different, and there are plenty of situations in which they work together and mix together very well, but there are also some situations you are better off avoiding.

Taking this argument to its conclusion, your solution would be to simply segregate the males and females at Riot and/or simply remove one gender from its workpool.

Physical differences between men and women aren't equivalent to social/mental differences. The latter exists, but plenty of men/women can interact without one of them being an arsehole to the opposite sex. In the scenario described here, it's the men who are at fault. The burden of changing behaviour lies with them.

Mothro:

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

So because they feel socially isolated we should excuse their behaviour?

Mothro:

It doesn't matter when males feel socially isolated, the feelings of males don't matter to most.

Certainly feels that way these days. Pretty sad that a woman can simply end you entire career by just saying she felt nervous around you or your workplace. It scary because even when aligations are proven false the men are still screwed.

That isn't confined to one gender - Emma Hussar's resignation ahead of time is one such example. Even if the allegations against her are false, she knows her career is over.

Now, I actually do agree to a point that accusations against men generally rely on less burden of proof. However, again, how does that excuse the behaviour the article has described? By all indications there's plenty of corroberation.

Elvis Starburst:

If this is all true, then it's great to see that the company itself is as putrid and disgustingly toxic as its rabid ugly fanbase. Inb4 "not all LoL players", I've heard enough to know I'd never, ever wanna touch that community with a planet sized pole

As someone who plays LoL...yeah, I'm not going to contest that.

As someone who started playing HotS before LoL, well, it was like night and day. Not that HotS is perfect, but it's practically PC compared to some of the garbage I read in the text bar in some matches.

trunkage:

And I thought Incels were the ones calling themselves Incels.

They do.

Mothro:

No, incels is the new insult. It's getting up there with Nazi's.

I've never heard someone use the word incel as an insult. Considering it stands for "involuntary celibate," and was self-used, I'm not sure how it would qualify as an insult.

Also, I'm not sure what they have to do with this thread, considering incels are people who, at best, wallow in self-pity due to their inability to get laid, and at worst, have actually committed murder.

Anyway, yeah decades of feminism has brought us to the point that males are considered a danger to women and children and that has a huge impact on the ability for people to feel empathy for males. Males are just guilty of whatever negative thing they are accused of.

Again, what does this have to do with the prats the article describes?

Yes, okay, I get it, empathy for males tends to be less than empathy for females. But when we have actual documented reports of these arseholes acting like arseholes, and getting away with being arseholes, and having done this for extended periods of time, whining about the manosphere is just attempting to shift blame.

Mothro:

No, incels is the new insult. It's getting up there with Nazi's.

Anyway, yeah decades of feminism has brought us to the point that males are considered a danger to women and children and that has a huge impact on the ability for people to feel empathy for males. Males are just guilty of whatever negative thing they are accused of.

I would highly recommend looking up something called Prohibition. The reason why it happened was to stop men getting drunk which lead to DV. This "men being dangerous" thing is nothing new.

Commanderfantasy:
It's depressingly common not just in gaming, but also in the tech sector. A lot of people in the industry subscribe to very technolibertarian views and thus not only is acting like a frat boy tolerated, it's encouraged. Video games being a creative industry also encourages dickbags to think of themselves as "auteurs" thus why there are so many assholes playing the Misunderstood, Tortured Artist card whenever people call them out on their bullshit.

Yes, tech industry does have a high percentage of shy and secluded people without impressing social skills. Most are introvert, many may have asperger. It is not uncommon for companies doing personality tests to find above 90% introverts in its actual technical departments (and nonsurprisingly hardly any in its consulting or support departments )

Look these people grew up being socially awkward nerds, spending friday nights alone in their dark rooms playing video games, play D&D with a bunch of other nerds.

When these people are put into a population in which interaction with females is required, they are still awkward as hell. It don't matter that they are supposed to be adults, if they didn't grow up learning social skills they simply wont have them. And let's face it, a lot of really good coders and artists are kind of on the autistic spectrum.

But no.

A nerd is not a fratboy.

An introvert is not likely to send out dick picks to everyone. An introvert tends to keep conversation to the bare minimum required to do work. Such a person is not a party goer who enjoys silly crass jokes in company. An introvert is usually conforming to social norms to avoid any hassle, he is not one testing boundaries.

There is some other, way more confrontational and extrovert type which behaves that way. That is the type usually found in management, thriving in competition and engaging in power plays. Those are usual harrassers. Always aware of power structure, always willing to engage in antagonistic behavior against perceived thread. They very much do have the social skills to do better which is how they are able to keep up outward experience.

Seriously, the idea that the shitty behavior in some part of the tech sector has anything to do with social awkward nerds has to die. This is just another stupid scapegoat and a way to ignore a systematic problem.

And it is a systematic problem. Some part of the tech sector is horrible this way. But other parts don't have those problems at all. Even if they are still predominantly male and/or full of introvert nerds. Which means neither gender balance nor the tendency of introvert nerds being drawn to tech are actually root causes of this behavior. It is something else, something cultural. And considering how many of those complaints come strait out of California and how the Californian Tech sector is its own little world with its own special rules, it might be worth to look a little closer there.

I don't understand why people are surprised. Look women should have the right and the ability to do whatever job they want, achieve whatever they want in life. But sometimes men and women don't mix. I'd never want to see a co-ed fighting league or sporting (football, basketball, etc) competition because someone is going to get really hurt. Boys and girls are different, and there are plenty of situations in which they work together and mix together very well, but there are also some situations you are better off avoiding.

Sports are divided because of biological performance differences. Where this is not the case, mixed teams are common. As for co-ed, that works perfectly well even in sports where seperate competition is the norm, boys and girls can very well train and learn together. Which is coincidently the way most countries handle phys. ed.

I am not surprised, especially considering this is Riot we are discussing here. This attitude towards women has been sadly very common in a good number of industries, not just gaming and tech. It is telling though that she had a guy give her presentation and they actually listened and did not even bother to hear what she had said at all when she gave the same presentation prior.

I also think it is BS that anyone would attempt to claim that "men and women don't mix". No, it is toxic people creating a toxic environment and that needs to change. If they cannot stop toxic behavior, then the toxic people should be replaced. I also strongly disagree that " people do not care about men's feelings or problems". Yes, Mothers, wives, girlfriends care about their Son's, husbands, boyfriends problems just as much as their own. Toxic masculinity is what makes it difficult and less acceptable for men to be able to talk about their feelings by attempting to make men feel like "less of a man" for not " toughening up and taking it like a man" nonsense. Feminists, however, have not only been making it more acceptable for men to talk about their feelings by actively combating toxic masculinity, they have helped provide support groups and volunteers for men as well expand education on the subject for a very long time now.

https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/01/why-men-need-to-feel-their-feelings/
https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/09/distort-male-sexuality-hurt-everybody/

Lil devils x:
I am not surprised, especially considering this is Riot we are discussing here. This attitude towards women has been sadly very common in a good number of industries, not just gaming and tech. It is telling though that she had a guy give her presentation and they actually listened and did not even bother to hear what she had said at all when she gave the same presentation prior.

I also think it is BS that anyone would attempt to claim that "men and women don't mix". No, it is toxic people creating a toxic environment and that needs to change. If they cannot stop toxic behavior, then the toxic people should be replaced. I also strongly disagree that " people do not care about men's feelings or problems". Yes, Mothers, wives, girlfriends care about their Son's, husbands, boyfriends problems just as much as their own. Toxic masculinity is what makes it difficult and less acceptable for men to be able to talk about their feelings by attempting to make men feel like "less of a man" for not " toughening up and taking it like a man" nonsense. Feminists, however, have not only been making it more acceptable for men to talk about their feelings by actively combating toxic masculinity, they have helped provide support groups and volunteers for men as well expand education on the subject for a very long time now.

https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/01/why-men-need-to-feel-their-feelings/
https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/09/distort-male-sexuality-hurt-everybody/

*opening hornets' nest time*

Situations like this aren't helped by incidences such as the ArenaNet/DeroirGaming vs Jessica Price blow up, drawing attention to a problem which was irrelevant to this set of circumstances and being seized upon by parts of the industry as being justification for ignoring actual toxicity.

Now this articles is making the rounds

http://meagan-marie.tumblr.com/post/176788011970/six-months-at-riot-games

Seems to be given more credence to this. As for why they are doing this? If you don't punish people for doing something, someone going to do it. Riot has made an environment That refuses to look over their employees. It's the same reason why Hollywood had a bunch of people were able to get away with sexual harassment and rape. If there aren't any consequences why stop?

Hawki:

As someone who plays LoL...yeah, I'm not going to contest that.

As someone who started playing HotS before LoL, well, it was like night and day. Not that HotS is perfect, but it's practically PC compared to some of the garbage I read in the text bar in some matches.

To go off topic I have friends I play lol and hots with and one of them sums up the differences between both player bases. League has far more toxic players, that get more toxic the more they play and continually fucks up.

Hots are nicer people but not nearly as skilled and we'll make dumb mistakes without being tilted. and when you do get that toxic person they will be the worst player imaginable and refuse to take responsibility for their fuck ups. Pretty much the dumbass who thinks he's Einstein.

of course occasionally the situations are reversed, but that's been my experience.

tf2godz:
Now this articles is making the rounds

http://meagan-marie.tumblr.com/post/176788011970/six-months-at-riot-games

Don't know what's more depressing - the content of the article, or the comments in it. :(

Hawki:

tf2godz:
Now this articles is making the rounds

http://meagan-marie.tumblr.com/post/176788011970/six-months-at-riot-games

Don't know what's more depressing - the content of the article, or the comments in it. :(

WOW those comments, I didn't even look at them the first time but damn...

tf2godz:

Hawki:

tf2godz:
Now this articles is making the rounds

http://meagan-marie.tumblr.com/post/176788011970/six-months-at-riot-games

Don't know what's more depressing - the content of the article, or the comments in it. :(

WOW those comments, I didn't even look at them the first time but damn...

Yeah, that's pretty gross. It's always depressing how they try to disprove her...by acting exactly how the harassers and manchildren in her story acted.

So a company known for a gmae with an insanely toxic asshole fanbase is also a shitty place for women to work.

I am shocked, shocked to hear that there's gambling going on in here.

Seriously, this doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Commanderfantasy:

Look these people grew up being socially awkward nerds, spending friday nights alone in their dark rooms playing video games, play D&D with a bunch of other nerds.

When these people are put into a population in which interaction with females is required, they are still awkward as hell. It don't matter that they are supposed to be adults, if they didn't grow up learning social skills they simply wont have them. And let's face it, a lot of really good coders and artists are kind of on the autistic spectrum.

Hi. 30 year old Aspergers super nerd who grew up with no social skills, and who spends basically every night alone in my dark room playing video games here.

Up until I was 20, I had zero social skills. I had to super isolate myself because high school was a living hell for me, and keeping quiet and alone helped keep some of the bullies off my back (Although sometimes they'd pursue me to the library and metaphorically shit on me while I was just trying to read a goddamn book and the only safe place was literally reading STANDING at the counter with the librarian). My only two friends at that school were two other rejects that everyone relentlessly made fun of. I had some grade school pals that I saw on the weekends sometimes, but overall I was super isolated.

Also, it was a boys-only school full of asshole macho jock type people and spoiled rich brats. Given that my only experience with girls in grade school was either "I had one friend for a year who was a girl" or "That clingy crying girl kissed me with no permission and got me mocked for 3 years as the crybaby's girlfriend and now oh shit she's following me around deliberately making it worse because she wanted the attention", I was terribad with women.

But not once was I some kind of asshat about it. Not once have I ever considered making a move on a girl who has no interest, or is drunk or whatever. Not once have I ever considered sending anyone a dick pic or passing around a list of "chicks at work I'd like to fuck".

See, my parents raised me with the principle of something called "respect". "You don't know someone else's story, you don't know what they want until they tell you, so treat them with respect and don't impose your wishes on them unless they're cool with that" kind of thing.

It wasn't until I was about 20 that I started coming out of my shell and talking to people. I was 22 when I had my first girlfriend (Which was pure luck meeting her through a friend and having the same lunch breaks), and it was a basically platonic relationship with no sex and a single make-out moment over 3 years (Her previous boyfriend had been borderline abusive and she was nervous about another relationship, so I told her she could set the pace. She was never ready for more) and that was fine by me, because I respected her as a person and not as "something to have sex with".

After that fell apart and it absolutely destroyed my fragile self worth that had taken 20 years to form, I could totally have turned into one of these incel type assholes blaming women for not wanting me, and bitching at the world about how unfair it had been to me. And it had been. I was a self-loathing ball of neuroses and basically none of it was my fault.

But again, not only did I value respect and consent of others, but I decided to respect myself and "git gud". I decided to work on my self isolation and my meekness. So rather than wallow in "waaaaah world so unfair!!!" I actually addressed my feelings and decided to get better, stop being so isolated, and grow a damn spine and assert myself.

I joined a larp community, I put myself out there, I made more friends. I worked to improve myself and grow a spine. And not once did I ever act like a fratboy asshole because "respect". I now have a reputation of being "That guy who makes everyone feel safe and welcome", as one of the larp organizers put it when she got drunk hanging out with me at a bar one time, something she told me she would be too nervous to do with anyone but her boyfriend. Yeah, I'm still socially awkward and bad with social cues and awkward with women, but not in an asshole way. Because I consider other people's feelings and don't act like a self-centered dick.

I'm 30 now and I still spend most nights alone in my room playing games (Larps are, at best, one evening a month if one is going on). I'm still quiet and shy, although now I can actually carry conversation with people who aren't longtime friends. I still have no girlfriend. And outside of the occasional pangs of loneliness, I'm perfectly happy to be single. My self worth isn't tied to the other sex.

The problem isn't "oh no, some guys have no social skills and are awkward around women!". The problem is that their awkwardness translates into "Yo dood, Imma show her my penis with no provocation because...derp?" and "Yo dood, Imma talk about how much I wanna stick my dick in her with no care if she hears it because...derp?". You can be awkward around girls without being an asshole.

TLDR: I'm the poster boy for lonely virgin loser gamers, and I destroy the stereotype of "sexist asshole gamer" by the fact that I actually bother to respect other people, and because rather than cry to the sky about how unfair life is I decided to improve myself.

If some scrawny, chronic-mild-depression, traumatized by bullying for ages dude like me can do it, Most guys should be able to do it.

At the very least they can respect women's boundaries and not think they're entitled to sex or love. It's not freakin' hard! >:(

Mothro:

It's true. Article after article about how bad women have it but when men have it rough....no one wants to talk about that.

That's funny, a friend of mine in the game industry shared a video story about two football players getting massively harassed and derided as "Gaaayyyyyyy" because one dared to hug and pat the head of the other when he found out mid-game that his mom died.

And everyone in the facebook comment feed, women and men, talked about how shitty this was. There were women going "It's so shit that men have to go through this and be treated like shit if they dare to have an emotional moment, or comfort another guy, it's awful".

So yeah, people do want to talk about how men get shat on. In fact, a lot of feminists talk about how the way our society tries to repress male emotions is mentally scarring to guys, and how the way it pushes men to be macho strong guys all the time is harmful to us guys.

So just because women getting utterly screwed by centuries of guys getting away with being domineering, inconsiderate pricks is finally getting the attention it deserves doesn't mean no one cares about guys.

Maybe if more people actually, you know, talked about the shit that guys go through and didn't get dogpiled with comments about how "talking about male feelings is killing masculinity" or stuff like that, we'd have more conversations about it!

Mothro:

No, incels is the new insult. It's getting up there with Nazi's.

Gee that's funny, the only people I see being called incels are:
a) people who call themselves incels already

b) People who show all the traits of being an incel. IE: Flagrant disrespect of women, wallowing in self pity about all the sex they're entitled to and not getting, claiming feminism is bad because it makes women not want men and so they'll have to die virgins, and never taking a second to wonder if maybe their crappy attitude and/or fact they never put themselves out there and make themselves appealing is the reason why they're alone.

So no, I reject that argument.

Mothro:

Anyway, yeah decades of feminism has brought us to the point that males are considered a danger to women and children and that has a huge impact on the ability for people to feel empathy for males. Males are just guilty of whatever negative thing they are accused of.

Decades of feminism that came after centuries of guys basically having total dominance over women.

Women used to be married off like property. Women could not leave marriages even if they were being raped and abused. Soldiers used to rape the women of the lands they conquered. They couldn't vote or hold property, were looked down on if they had a job. Etc, etc, etc, not to mention ErrTheKing's point that one of the reasons for prohibition was as a way to curb domestic violence men did while drunk.

So the logical conclusion is not that "feminism made the world afraid of men" but rather "Women have ALWAYS been scared of men, feminism is just them finally being able to say it", and you just don't like to hear that.

Also, if you want to know why simple accusations of sexual misconduct can lead to consequences and angry mobs...It's because the justice system has not caught up yet. Plenty of guys are charged with rape and get away with it, and even more of them are never even charged.

Hell, in a lot of cases the cops don't even bother to investigate the guy. One of the larpers I know got raped at a party while drunk and the cops told her "Well what were you expecting, getting drunk at a party? This is on you, miss!" and did jack shit. And you know what I heard next in the group? Something along the lines of "Bah, typical. They're routinely shit about it in this city". And this is in Montreal, a pretty liberal city!

Given that the system fails so goddamn hard, it's no wonder that more weight is getting put on the accusations, because it's the only recourse a lot of these women have. Yes, it's shit, and yes it means that once in a blue moon you'll have false accusations that cause serious problems for someone. But the solution is not to tell women to shut up about it. The solution is to fix the failed system that led to this becoming the only solution that gives them any kind of justice at all.

captainsavvy:
I just... I don't understand people like this.

I don't understand why it's so hard to just not be an utter cockwomble.
Millions of people manage to be decent human beings every day. Why is it so hard for others? D:

This. So much this. I say it out loud almost every single day.

It's not hard to be a decent human being. All you have to do is pause for a second, consider how your words or actions will affect the other person, and if it will hurt them or make them feel like shit...You just don't do it.

It's that easy. You just pause for a split second to consider the impact of your actions, and then maybe decide to not waste the energy doing the thing. That's LITERALLY all it takes to be decent.

It's. Not. Rocket. Science.

I'd also like to pose the question, If Riot game's culture is that of a boys club then why should it have to change because the women want it too?

If you took out the dick pics (if that is actually happening), and just looked at the fratty behavior then what's the problem with that if the company is okay with it?

When did it stop being okay to be a bunch of dudes?

Look I don't condone any harassment of anyone that is unwilling. Especially sexual harassment. But if it's a bunch of guys just fucking with each other, and the women don't want any part of it....just leave? Why hang out for six months?

The initial behavior Meagan speaks about in her article of dudes calling each other "F*gg*t, p*s*y, c-sucker, and so on" is just shit the dudes do and speaks to the frat party she was warned about before joining Riot. So okay you have a problem with the common language between guys, and clearly the common culture in the office. Why stick around? Why join a frat party environment in the first place if you knew you weren't capable of tolerating it?

The next few paragraphs are the unavoidable "why can't there be more ugly/monster women instead of just supermodels" question. Which in a game that revolves around making an income on skins and cosmetics, is always the question that comes up. Like attractive characters in a game are always the go-to for sexism arguments. But again....boys club, and the boys club wants to create attractive female characters. They don't have to make monsters or alt-bodytypes if they don't want too, yet it is always brought up as a negative. Character designs are their decision and they make what they want, don't like it? Why are you working there then?

Finally she talks about the rape jokes and how the male employees seemed to always go out to strip clubs. Okay the rape jokes are not cool so I'm on board with that. But she mentions that the rape jokes she overhears are mostly directed at other "bros" and not women so it reads like she is projecting her feeling at the targets of the jokes rather than how people joking with each other actually feel about it. As for going to strip clubs...so what? IF that where they want to go in their off-hours, why is it any of her fucking business?

She then quits over not being able to roommate with another female employee at a convention, which is understandable. They probably should have roomed her with someone else. But this is a person who didn't get along with the environment from day 1, and she was warned about it ahead of them and ignored that. Why stay for so long?

From early on, she complained about how the characters in the game seemed sexist, that the men in the office were horrible people, and yet she not only idolized LEague of Legends (remember the game with all the sexist characters) enough to want to work for Riot despite being warned of the fratty nature of the company, but she also stuck around for MONTHS.

Some of the things like the guy who supposedly DM'ed another co-worker's girlfriend, and the reported dick pics, just feels like exhaggerations to me. This person didn't experience this first hand and doesn't really know the truth nor the context of any of these "supposed" things. If these things truly happened, then how has Riot not been sued for this yet?

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