Are we really expecting cyberpunk to be better than Deus Ex?

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Hello friends,

So heres this game has been talked alot in media, hype by journalist as best thing since slice bread and even lot of people comparing it to Deus Ex and think it make Deus Ex looks lame in comparision.

Original Deus Ex was classic game and no game surpassed it so far. it was best game ever made to this day after 18 years later. the level design is one of the best and it doesnot need teh open world, the story was excellent, it doesnot need some shitty romance/sex scenes and etc

here the most memorable dialouge of Deus Ex 1

and compare it to cyberpunk dialogues which full of F words and just so bland. this is what i called a mature dialogues. no F words involve and pure intellectual talk. warren spector is just a legend.

cyberpunk imo doesnot even looks like it can surpassed Deus Ex HR let alone original. just invisible wars imo

In Deus Ex. you can complete the whole game without killing anyone. in cyberpunk you have to kill 300 people to complete each mission which looks incredibly scripted.

now im not saying cyberpunk will be bad game. it will be decent at best that will praise as 11/10. apart form world and density, everything looks bland from driving to combat which remind me of borderlands.

so here it is my friends, do we really think cyberpunk can be better than deus ex? or Deus Ex reign supreme still? lets discuss

Yes, who could forget the legendary dialogue of Deus Ex.

I'm pretty sure this is the most memorable dialogue of Deus Ex.

Edit: Wow. XD

image

Yes, it'll probably be better than your precious Deus Ex

Better than Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, which is the last entry(and because of that, the one many people take as a represantive of the franchise) in Deus Ex IP? I sure hope so!
Better than Human Revolution? Absolutely possible, and saying that as a fan. Better than the original? We can tell after 20 years of cult following.

B-Cell:

In Deus Ex. you can complete the whole game without killing anyone. in cyberpunk you have to kill 300 people to complete each mission which looks incredibly scripted.

Yes, because it's inevitable that a game would be.

That doesn't make the impact of Deus Ex any less. That doesn't erase it from existence. That doesn't make the game lose merit. It just means it's been surpassed.

It happens with all games. That's the point of progress.

Do you...ever give a game you don't like the look of a chance to come out before you start irrationally hating on it?

There's being skeptical and cautious, and then there's whatever you're doing. Stop it.

Unless someone chews you out for going into the wrong bathroom, I'm not buying it. ;)

I doubt it will be better than the original but considering how short and somewhat disappointing the latest one was, maybe.

Our newly returned Shamus Young put this kind of thing into a very good form of perspective. It requires us to see how games have and the games industry has changed in the last 20 years or so. From the earliest 3D graphics cards 20ish years ago thru today, the games we play have changed. In the quest to cram in more pixels, we now get less game as a result.

Deus Ex, which birthed a genre, IS a great game, and I say that as a huge fan who played it at release and several times since. The graphics haven't aged well, but it has a scope and depth that newer games can't match. They can't and they never will. The period just after 3D development matured and before XBL fucked everything up gave birth to games the likes of which we cannot see again. The "golden age" of gaming as it were.

Having said all that, CP2077 will do for us today what DE did for us then. While it does have 2018 visuals and other tropes, I trust that CDPR will create an immersive, believable world, tell a great story and do so *without* the EA/Ubisoft/ActiBlizz bullshit, DRM, or microtransations. They *will* support it with expansions and DLCs and that is something as a DE fan I would've bought then as well.

No modern game can match games from yesteryear. Thief 4 is the perfect example of how the "AAA" players are incapable of making great games anymore. Squeenix literally have the source code of Thief and Thief 2, they own it and the IP, they have the blueprint for a great Thief game in their hands, and they screwed it up royally. BioWare similarly made Mass Effect, a magnificent space opera with a brilliant story. Then EA bought them and they made ME3, Inquisition and Andromeda. It isn't possible to make games now as good as they were then, but CDPR promised us a single-player, story driven, expansive open world RPG with no bullshit, and that's what we're going to get. The original Deus Ex still exists and unlike the consoles that have been born and died since the early 00s, PC gamers can still play it. CP2077 doesn't have to be better than DE, it is a different thing and will give us a different experience. I suspect it could well be better but it doesn't lessen DE any less, that game was a genre defining, ground breaking masterpiece.

Mostly cause I only ever played the first Deus Ex, way after all the new ones came out, and could not get past the tutorial cause of the janky old PC controls.

KingsGambit:
BioWare similarly made Mass Effect, a magnificent space opera with a brilliant story. Then EA bought them and they made ME3, Inquisition and Andromeda.

Mass Effect 2, and the entire Dragon Age trilogy were under EA.

Bioware-pre-EA under the lens doesn't really come out shining either. Baldurs Gate ended with a lackluster whimper, that was in itself sold as a DLC (it was "Expansion Pack" back then, of course). Neverwinter Nights was at best a bit of a technical spectacle, but the actual Bioware content was godawful and it survived and thrived entirely on what the community modified it into (and also introduced Premium Mods to the world, a good decade ahead of Bethesda's efforts).

Back on to the original topic. I mean, it should. Its got major funding, over a decade of technological advancement, and 5 or 6 years of percolation (even if the actual work wasn't that long, they've had that long to have ideas bubble around). I never played the original Deus Ex (always got it mixed with System Shock 2 at the time for whatever reason. And System Shock 2 was janky garbage that didn't inspire to play the similarly looking (in marketing) game).

If you already don't care that the original Deus Ex looks ugly as shit, is horribly optimised, and has kind of shit moment to moment gameplay, you're not going to care about Cyberpunk improving on any of those elements. There's no way the plot or the world building will be remotely as complex because no sane person would set out to write something that dense and unfriendly to new players. The classics to come out of the 90s PC scene are almost universally things that nobody should be trying to directly emulate, because by the time you've finished taking out the shit that never worked and the shit we're now way beyond, you've got fuck all left to work with. The sole exception is Thief II, because it's already an extremely stripped back experience; you've got a blackjack, a sword, a few simple arrow types, and that's it. Dishonoured actually came quite close to being a good modern translation. If there'd been a bit more intricacy in the level design, and the equipment and ability progression wasn't so flawed, it'd be up there with the original.

If CP2077 is merely a murder-death simulator with technological toys, then yeah. It's kind of garbage. If it's just Witcher 3 but sci-fi wrapped with humans, drones and androids, and you seeing how many you can waste and call it cyberpunk... then yeah. Then again, that critique also falls on what Deus Ex became.

The way I feel about it is if it's just Black Ops 3 but with updated graphics then I'll call it a sci fi romp.

Well I'm at least expecting the game play to be less garbage. Seriously, I tried to get into the classic Dues Ex and the gameplay has aged HORRIBLY! Particularly if you want to take a non-lethal approach, you're just shit out of luck there.

erttheking:
Well I'm at least expecting the game play to be less garbage. Seriously, I tried to get into the classic Dues Ex and the gameplay has aged HORRIBLY! Particularly if you want to take a non-lethal approach, you're just shit out of luck there.

I remember the GEP gun taking up half your inventory. And tranquilizers made enemy run screaming at you.

KingsGambit:

Deus Ex, which birthed a genre, IS a great game

Great game, yes. Birthed a genre? Not really. Deus Ex follows in the footsteps of BioShock 1 and 2, in that it is a RPG with large levels that presents several valid paths depending on how the player wants to play (stealthy, combat, tech savvy etc.). Deus Ex could be said to be the pinnacle of these kinds of choose-your-own-playstyle RPGs, where the choice was more meaningful then what kind of weapon you used. It was also groundbreaking for its reactiveness to player action, with both small actions (going into the women's bathroom) and large actions (saving or not saving Paul) actually having repercussions.

But I would say that Human Revolution is the better game in the Deus Ex series. It does most of what Deus Ex does without a lot of the weird limitations that Deus Ex had, that were part of the design standard at the time (didn't invest anything in pistols? Have fun waiting 20 seconds for your aim to center)

Gethsemani:

KingsGambit:

Deus Ex, which birthed a genre, IS a great game

Great game, yes. Birthed a genre? Not really. Deus Ex follows in the footsteps of BioShock 1 and 2, in that it is a RPG with large levels that presents several valid paths depending on how the player wants to play (stealthy, combat, tech savvy etc.). Deus Ex could be said to be the pinnacle of these kinds of choose-your-own-playstyle RPGs, where the choice was more meaningful then what kind of weapon you used. It was also groundbreaking for its reactiveness to player action, with both small actions (going into the women's bathroom) and large actions (saving or not saving Paul) actually having repercussions.

But I would say that Human Revolution is the better game in the Deus Ex series. It does most of what Deus Ex does without a lot of the weird limitations that Deus Ex had, that were part of the design standard at the time (didn't invest anything in pistols? Have fun waiting 20 seconds for your aim to center)

Am I missing the joke? Didnt the first dues ex come out 7 years before bioshock? Or is this one of those things where a soft reboot happened and the original doesn't count. Never got into either series...

Elijin:

Gethsemani:

KingsGambit:

Deus Ex, which birthed a genre, IS a great game

Great game, yes. Birthed a genre? Not really. Deus Ex follows in the footsteps of BioShock 1 and 2, in that it is a RPG with large levels that presents several valid paths depending on how the player wants to play (stealthy, combat, tech savvy etc.). Deus Ex could be said to be the pinnacle of these kinds of choose-your-own-playstyle RPGs, where the choice was more meaningful then what kind of weapon you used. It was also groundbreaking for its reactiveness to player action, with both small actions (going into the women's bathroom) and large actions (saving or not saving Paul) actually having repercussions.

But I would say that Human Revolution is the better game in the Deus Ex series. It does most of what Deus Ex does without a lot of the weird limitations that Deus Ex had, that were part of the design standard at the time (didn't invest anything in pistols? Have fun waiting 20 seconds for your aim to center)

Am I missing the joke? Didnt the first dues ex come out 7 years before bioshock? Or is this one of those things where a soft reboot happened and the original doesn't count. Never got into either series...

I'm going to guess she meant System Shock and just kind of had a brain fart while typing.

Avnger:

I'm going to guess she meant System Shock and just kind of had a brain fart while typing.

Pretty much this. Embarrassing mistake nonetheless.

Well, at least I expect it to be better or at least as good as the new Deus Ex games. Better than the first one? Extreeeeemely unlikely but, hey, Witcher 3 was just about the best game of the last ten years so at least there's a chance.

trunkage:

erttheking:
Well I'm at least expecting the game play to be less garbage. Seriously, I tried to get into the classic Dues Ex and the gameplay has aged HORRIBLY! Particularly if you want to take a non-lethal approach, you're just shit out of luck there.

I remember the GEP gun taking up half your inventory. And tranquilizers made enemy run screaming at you.

That's one area where Human Revolution was a definite improvement, it gave you a non lethal weapon that was fun to use. Seriously, P.E.P.S. was the shit.

Chewster:
I doubt it will be better than the original

Why wouldn't it be? The original was only great back in the day. It's actually a pretty shitty game by today's standards. Games are not like movies or books. They don't all get to age well. And Deus Ex most certainly didn't age well. Even if they were to remaster the original and change only the graphics, people would hate it because the gameplay is dated as hell.

Adam Jensen:

Chewster:
I doubt it will be better than the original

Why wouldn't it be? The original was only great back in the day. It's actually a pretty shitty game by today's standards. Games are not like movies or books. They don't all get to age well. And Deus Ex most certainly didn't age well. Even if they were to remaster the original and change only the graphics, people would hate it because the gameplay is dated as hell.

let say gameplay mechanic is dated but level design cant be dated and deus ex 1 along with system shock 2 has most intellectual level design in gaming.

cyberpunk doesnot looks like it can be as good as Human Revolution. let alone deus ex 1.

i remember first time i watch Deus ex HR trailer and i was completely blown away. while i first watch cyberpunk trailer at E3 and i was like meh. nothing special.

Adam Jensen:

Chewster:
I doubt it will be better than the original

Why wouldn't it be? The original was only great back in the day. It's actually a pretty shitty game by today's standards. Games are not like movies or books. They don't all get to age well. And Deus Ex most certainly didn't age well. Even if they were to remaster the original and change only the graphics, people would hate it because the gameplay is dated as hell.

Perhaps but it was sort of groundbreaking at the time and with the exception of maybe Human Revolution I've yet to see another game that captures the same spirit of paranoia and conspiracy as the original. Maybe this will but I'm not holding my breath because hype.

A reboot with the new engine would be dope as hell but I imagine a lot of work for no real monatary reward. Hell, I'd be happy with a proper Human Revolution-style sequel to Mankind Divided but that doesn't seem to be in the cards.

Yes, it probably will be. Still not sure I'm going to like it though. Cyberpunk 2020 was my RPG when I was a kid, my equivalent of DnD. If 2077 doesn't conform closely enough to my vision it probably won't work for me. I haven't even watched the gameplay footage yet because I just have this feeling it'll shatter my hopes for it. didn't watch the various videos explaining how the world of 2077 was adapted from 2020 for the same reason.

The original Deus Ex...I only played a bit of it on PS2 (which didn't help) but it did the usual thing with story based RPGs and utterly failed to interest me it the story so I gave up pretty quickly.

Adam Jensen:

Chewster:
I doubt it will be better than the original

Why wouldn't it be? The original was only great back in the day. It's actually a pretty shitty game by today's standards. Games are not like movies or books. They don't all get to age well. And Deus Ex most certainly didn't age well. Even if they were to remaster the original and change only the graphics, people would hate it because the gameplay is dated as hell.

No man, I'll fight you on that. The original Deus Ex is still an excellent game and it's not nostalgia speaking here... I played it after Human Revolution. There are elements to its mechanics that seem a bit archaic now, mostly on the virtue of its stealth systems having been mostly outdated the moment the first Splinter Cell was released, but in terms of leveldesign, emergent gameplay and dynamic progression its still far ahead even games of the same genre. The assault on the hotel where Paul may or may not die, being able to kill Anna in the airport, the differtent ways to avoid boss fights, all of that stuff is still absolutely brilliant. Combine that with leveldesign that still holds up perfectly in how natural it seems and you get something that still stands as one of the best games ever made. I like the new Deus Ex games, Dishonoured and Prey as much as the next guy but Deus Ex is a milestone nothing else has lived up to yet.

PsychedelicDiamond:

No man, I'll fight you on that. The original Deus Ex is still an excellent game and it's not nostalgia speaking here... I played it after Human Revolution. There are elements to its mechanics that seem a bit archaic now, mostly on the virtue of its stealth systems having been mostly outdated the moment the first Splinter Cell was released, but in terms of leveldesign, emergent gameplay and dynamic progression its still far ahead even games of the same genre. The assault on the hotel where Paul may or may not die, being able to kill Anna in the airport, the differtent ways to avoid boss fights, all of that stuff is still absolutely brilliant. Combine that with leveldesign that still holds up perfectly in how natural it seems and you get something that still stands as one of the best games ever made. I like the new Deus Ex games, Dishonoured and Prey as much as the next guy but Deus Ex is a milestone nothing else has lived up to yet.

I'm not going to disagree with any of what you wrote, because I think much of it is spot on and explains why Deus Ex is a classic and a genre definer to begin with. However, I do think that the things that have aged poorly (the stealth, the combat mechanics) pretty much tank the game when compared to modern games. You just can't get around that combat starts off as a massive tedium and remains so until you get up to level 3 or so in your chosen combat skill (and then there's the problem that melee is made completely redundant by the Dragon's Tooth, which will hack up anything instantly irregardless of your skill level) at which point you suddenly become a killer of epic proportions. This in a game where most levels, as well designed as they are, tend to involve several combat encounters, especially since the stealth system isn't all that sophisticated.

What Deus Ex does right it does really right, but all the things that didn't age with grace makes it a game that is all but inapproachable to modern audiences. For us who played it at release and for people who are used to late-90's game design it can still be compelling. But for new audiences, especially those that have grown up with game design from the 10's? Terrible, terrible systems that will put you off faster then JC can offer an insincere condolence.

Adam Jensen:
you're a misogynist and that you'll disparage any game in existence if there's even an option to play as a female character.

Thats why im anticipating resident evil 2 remake?

come on my friend. thats not the case. the thing is, it looks like any other open world game. a good looking watch dogs in first person with RPG elements. nothing make me "wow i need to play this game now feeling".

B-Cell:

Adam Jensen:
you're a misogynist and that you'll disparage any game in existence if there's even an option to play as a female character.

Thats why im anticipating resident evil 2 remake?

You said you will only be playing as Leon.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Yes, people are expecting it to be better because CDPR has proven it can produce, when given the time, incredible games.

Cyberpunk 2077 has been in development for YEARS and the company is bankrolled by GOG.

We EXPECT it to be a great game and it is probably one of the most anticipated titles ever.

This does not mean it will be a better game, but people have high hopes for it for a multitude of reasons.

Serious case of nostalgia glasses here. Deus Ex was a great game in its own right. But I tried to replay it even just a couple years later and it felt dated and janky as fuck. I gave up, and replayed it again in 2005, just to appreciate the story and depth the game had. It was a pioneer, yes. But it's not the best and only game to do what it did. Despite it having a brilliant story and freedom to approach in various ways (I'm talking storyline, because stealth was just a pain), the rest of it was horrible. Playing Deus Ex after a round of counter-strike felt like you were walking through thick mud, blind drunk, and trying to aim a pistol with it tied to the end of a 2 meter stick.

Now I know OP thinks Witcher 3 is broken, shit combat, boring, etc, the usual. All subjective, of course, because to me, it has the best writing of any game I've ever played. Just speaking for myself, I've never given a shit about NPCs and their stupid quests until I played Witcher 3. Yes, there are golden moments in Diablo, Oblivion, Skyrim, and Mass Effect. But Witcher 3 had me roped in more than anything. I have faith in CDPRs writing. And I can't wait to see what they do in the cyberpunk setting (which peaked awhile ago, so now presents a bit of a challenge).

Adam Jensen:

Chewster:
I doubt it will be better than the original

Why wouldn't it be? The original was only great back in the day. It's actually a pretty shitty game by today's standards. Games are not like movies or books. They don't all get to age well. And Deus Ex most certainly didn't age well. Even if they were to remaster the original and change only the graphics, people would hate it because the gameplay is dated as hell.

PsychedelicDiamond:

No man, I'll fight you on that. The original Deus Ex is still an excellent game and it's not nostalgia speaking here... I played it after Human Revolution. There are elements to its mechanics that seem a bit archaic now, mostly on the virtue of its stealth systems having been mostly outdated the moment the first Splinter Cell was released, but in terms of leveldesign, emergent gameplay and dynamic progression its still far ahead even games of the same genre. The assault on the hotel where Paul may or may not die, being able to kill Anna in the airport, the differtent ways to avoid boss fights, all of that stuff is still absolutely brilliant. Combine that with leveldesign that still holds up perfectly in how natural it seems and you get something that still stands as one of the best games ever made. I like the new Deus Ex games, Dishonoured and Prey as much as the next guy but Deus Ex is a milestone nothing else has lived up to yet.

I too missed the boat on the original Deus Ex until just a few years ago and I was completely swept away by it, and I'm gonna have to call bullshit on the whole idea that games age poorly. A classic becomes a classic for a range of factors, and it isn't rendered irrelevant by games that just came out later and looked prettier. Allied doesn't invalidate Casablanca, Ready Player One doesn't invalidate Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Rogue Squadron doesn't invalidate X-Wing, and Sci-Fi RPGs in general don't invalidate Deus Ex.

Squilookle:

I too missed the boat on the original Deus Ex until just a few years ago and I was completely swept away by it, and I'm gonna have to call bullshit on the whole idea that games age poorly. A classic becomes a classic for a range of factors, and it isn't rendered irrelevant by games that just came out later and looked prettier. Allied doesn't invalidate Casablanca, Ready Player One doesn't invalidate Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Rogue Squadron doesn't invalidate X-Wing, and Sci-Fi RPGs in general don't invalidate Deus Ex.

Except games do age poorly. I missed the boat on Dues Ex by a long shot and I just couldn't get into it. I couldn't get into the classic of Half-Life 2 either, I was bored senseless by it. Couldn't get into the classic of the Witcher either, that aged like milk in the summer sun.

Squilookle:
I too missed the boat on the original Deus Ex until just a few years ago and I was completely swept away by it, and I'm gonna have to call bullshit on the whole idea that games age poorly. A classic becomes a classic for a range of factors, and it isn't rendered irrelevant by games that just came out later and looked prettier. Allied doesn't invalidate Casablanca, Ready Player One doesn't invalidate Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, Rogue Squadron doesn't invalidate X-Wing, and Sci-Fi RPGs in general don't invalidate Deus Ex.

Yeah, I think I agree (I did play it quite a bit ago on PS2). Sure, it probably has average at best shooting, but it's not a shooter and it was competent. The stealth is probably fine too, I remember the PS2 era being where the stealth genre was at its most popular and Deus Ex was, again, more than competent as I definitely played the game stealthily. It had less janky stealth than say PS2 Sniper Elite and that was a straight-up stealth game. I wonder how good the overall writing holds up because I totally dug the story but I was probably at the perfect age for it as well. Deus Ex still has some well designed systems that I recall like how you have to pick your augmentations while completely losing out on what you didn't pick and thus sorta making your own class as you played. Whereas at least Deus Ex HR (as I didn't play MD) failed at that pretty hard, everyone's Adam Jensen ended up with all the powers anyway. And the energy system was horribly designed in HR as well. OG Deus Ex didn't have those core design flaws the new games had.

I sorta agree and disagree that games don't age. I feel the first 3rd-person shooters like Syphon Filter (relying on lock-on) have aged horribly but that might just be due to that design being bad even then. Whereas a game like Metal Gear Solid holds up because it wasn't trying to be a shooter then and only then evolved into having "shooter" controls when we had figured them out. Or like random battles in JRPGs as I always hated that even as a kid playing on the SNES. Does something that is the best it could be at that given time make it good?

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