I don't understand the appeal of Destiny 2

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So it's free on PSN and I tried it.

And it's basically a MMORPG... if you cut out 99% of that MMORPG's content?

Compared to WoW, there's just... nothing... here? Only 4 small zones, only a handful of enemy types per zone, almost no story, literally just a dozen NPCs over the entire story mode, the quests are all pretty much identical generic "go to place X and kill monsters Y." And half the time "place X" ends up being a location YOU'VE ALREADY CLEARED OUT IN A PREVIOUS QUEST! Because the maps are so fucking tiny there's not even enough room to send you into new areas. And WoW is not some holy grail. I am comparing this game to a game that I think has some very glaring flaws to begin with, and is a transparent grind, and concluding that this is somehow like 10x worse.

I think of all the other AAA games on the market that are tripping over themselves to stuff as much content as they possibly can into their worlds, and I'm just trying to figure out where the fuck this game's budget went that they only have these 4 tiny ass zones and like 5 quests per zone. Forget WoW, compare this game's zones to just Velen from Witcher 3, or just the Hinterlands from Dragon Age Inquisition, or just Duscae from FFXV.

There's like no game here. They just want you to literally kill the same monsters over and over in the same spots on the same maps. Which is fine... but if I want to waste my time grinding, why wouldn't I at least play a game that gives me different monsters and different spots and different maps to do it in? It makes no sense.

It's actually funny how upset this makes me considering I didn't pay a single cent.

On the plus side, Titan was a really cool environment, for like... the 3 hours that I spent on it. I wish I could have a Dead Space sequel set on Titan, that'd be sick. I'd play the shit out of that.

Destiny never had an appeal to begin with. 1 was a borefest, 2 was the same borefest, admittedly streamlined, but with someone more bore.
whether they want to admit it or not, Destiny is Halo Online, so unless you thought Halo was a story-rich game, but didn't really care about the story, then Destiny has no appeal.

Yeah, I don't know. My good buddy loved it so when it went up for free, I was kinda excited. I played it for about an hour and gave up. Go here, shoot what seems like a never-ending stream of guys, next.

Gorgeous game though. Kinda wasted on the dull game play.

From what I can gather, Destiny 2 has some pretty good shooting mechanics, some decent co-op and the first game had this space fantasy thing going that was theoretically interesting. So apparently if you want a space fantasy co-op shooter it's your game.

Bear in mind, this is from someone whose never played the game, never will play the game and has only a passing interest in it(enough to read the occasional article about it that pops up on my news feed).

It's MMO aspect is so shallow, I much prefer playing it as a co-op shooter campaign with some looting.

But even that barely passes since the balance of the game is either piss easy or requiring you to have all the best gear in a full, organized group of players. At least the last time I played it, that was the case.

And the PVP is quite awful, which is weird since the actual shooting mechanics are fun and good in a single player setting. It just comes down to whoever has a certain weapon type.

Oh, and no hard difficulty unless you play very specific, rotating missions that change once a week. Want to rush through the campaign again with all your neat loot? Too bad! Make a new character or GTFO

Cause there is none. Seriously, Destiny 2 is tanking, even fans of Destiny 1 are not as into it as anyone thought they would. My brother and his friends played a ton of Destiny 1, but barely played 2.

It's fun.Remember fun? Before the escapist became a hate filled cercle jerk? Not every game is for everyone. Get over it.

I played the demo that came out a little while ago, no, I don't get the appeal of it either. The shooting was OK and I kind of like the Sci Fi setting, but that's about it. The rest of it didn't do anything for me and when the demo was done I quickly forgot all about it.

Lufia Erim:
It's fun.Remember fun? Before the escapist became a hate filled cercle jerk? Not every game is for everyone. Get over it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd4JuRIUFso

I mean, a bunch of you are objectively wrong.

Normally, your negative bashing is at least subjective, but to announce a game people play flat out has no appeal is very obviously incorrect.

Unfortunately, Destiny 2 suffered the exact same issues that the first game had and launched with a really lackluster story and content. It's really weird how Bungie didn't seem to have learned anything from Destiny 1, though just like with Destiny 1, Destiny 2 got a lot better with time.

Destiny 2 is not a traditional MMO, it's more of a COOP looter-shooter with MMO elements like raids and dungeons. The game really shines with its excellent gameplay though which is something most MMO's lack in my opinion. At the end of the day, it's a good game, especially if you have friends to do raids with.

Just like The Taken King with Destiny 1, Forsaken is a breath of fresh air for Destiny 2, there's now tons of stuff to do and you don't finish everything in 1-2 days then wait a week for the reset to do it again. Now is an excellent time to jump into the game for both new and old players.

Oh and Forsaken actually comes with a good story and good writing which is nice.

Lufia Erim:
It's fun. Remember fun? Before the escapist became a hate filled cercle jerk? Not every game is for everyone. Get over it.

It does get pretty tiring to see most posts here be so negative towards games, it really makes you think if people here actually enjoy games at all.

Lufia Erim:
It's fun.Remember fun? Before the escapist became a hate filled cercle jerk? Not every game is for everyone. Get over it.

I absolutely get enjoying the shooting. It's pretty good shooting. What I don't get is why there's no game around the shooting. In my experience, games that embrace the endless grind at least try to change the grind up on a surface level, by giving you new environments to explore, new enemies to fight, new storylines to distract you from the fact that you're actually doing the same thing over and over. That's why the game actually costs $60, because all that shit cost money to make.

Destiny 2 otoh feels like one step up from an indie roguelike that was made on a shoestring budget. "Of course there's only two environments, that's because it was made for $50!" The fuck is Destiny's excuse? Nathan Fillion and Lance Reddick asked for too much money?

I don't know how a company with the reputation I understand Bungie to have could make something so boring and devoid of fun. It is as tho at every point in the game's design, when given a choice between making the game more fun, or less, they went with less.

Slow class ability recharge times, skinnerbox loot mechanics, lootboxes, boring weapons (with shotguns and snipers put into the massively restricted "power weapons" group), can't even chat in an *online multiplayer* game. No interaction with other players, no trading or economy. Enemies that scale throughout, so combat is precisely the same at the very start of the game as at lvl 20.

I suspect this game was meddled with by corporate execs. It reeks of design-by-committee with no clear vision. It's the mass-market appeal shooter taken to the nth degree, then made always online to push lootboxes for real money on players. A real shame, I actually have buyer's remorse on this one.

I had a mad moment of hope when it was announced (clearly the bright lights of the trailers caused me to miss the fine print) that it was Bungie deciding they'd take on EA/BioWare in the epic space opera RPG scene. Then I read it was a first person MMO and my interest just vanished.

I don't think its a bad game - hell I haven't played it so I got no ground to stand on there - but I do think that it was a colossal missed opportunity.

Lesse if I can try and answer blow by blow as someone who enjoys Destiny, while also being aware of its numerous actual flaws.

EDIT : For the tl;dr though, the main aspect is you're trying to view a shooter as an RPG. Its like trying to critique Soulcalibur based on aspects from Dark Souls, sure they're both fantasy based melee combat games, but with very distinctively different appeals to their genre.

pure.Wasted:
So it's free on PSN and I tried it.

And it's basically a MMORPG... if you cut out 99% of that MMORPG's content?

Compared to WoW, there's just... nothing... here? Only 4 small zones, only a handful of enemy types per zone, almost no story, literally just a dozen NPCs over the entire story mode, the quests are all pretty much identical generic "go to place X and kill monsters Y." And half the time "place X" ends up being a location YOU'VE ALREADY CLEARED OUT IN A PREVIOUS QUEST! Because the maps are so fucking tiny there's not even enough room to send you into new areas. And WoW is not some holy grail. I am comparing this game to a game that I think has some very glaring flaws to begin with, and is a transparent grind, and concluding that this is somehow like 10x worse.

Well yes, you're comparing it to MMORPG, games that traditionally have vaster areas to explore, and tons of filler NPCs (though I'd concede that Destiny has weirdly small amount of NPCs, particularly in the open world zones). That said, Destiny doesn't have sixteen recolors of the same mob scattered around. And making games with actual physics and action combat is a bit more limiting on what you can present then the very abstract mechanics of most MMOs. Go to place X and kill Y is how I'd describe 99% of the missions in all of gaming, hardly a unique qualifier. Probably 99.9% if we moved into shooters specifically. Assuming you mean the Adventure side quests, some retread areas, some don't. They all have their own context and usually explain why you're retreading into an area though.

I think of all the other AAA games on the market that are tripping over themselves to stuff as much content as they possibly can into their worlds, and I'm just trying to figure out where the fuck this game's budget went that they only have these 4 tiny ass zones and like 5 quests per zone. Forget WoW, compare this game's zones to just Velen from Witcher 3, or just the Hinterlands from Dragon Age Inquisition, or just Duscae from FFXV.

There's like no game here. They just want you to literally kill the same monsters over and over in the same spots on the same maps. Which is fine... but if I want to waste my time grinding, why wouldn't I at least play a game that gives me different monsters and different spots and different maps to do it in? It makes no sense.

There's like ~20 hours of unique campaign+adventure quests+the first run of strikes. Its not all stellar, but its also not all what you're describing (which sounds like just running around the patrol zones mindlessly, which has always been a bit of a weird inclusion because its never been relevant in either game (although in D2 the public events drop some useful things, and in Forsaken some of the world-boss esque spawns can).

On the plus side, Titan was a really cool environment, for like... the 3 hours that I spent on it. I wish I could have a Dead Space sequel set on Titan, that'd be sick. I'd play the shit out of that.

Ah yes, Titan's kind of like the Moon from the first game. Second area you go to, with an actual interesting zone to it, that is drastically underused and not even part of the public space as it were (you can go into the Arcology, but there's nothing there outside of set missions).

Anyways, going back to the appeal, its a fun shooter in its core gameplay, with a variety of modes to do (all shootery for the most part though, so if you're looking for an RPG you're in the very wrong place). While its not as ambitous as Warframe (for instance), it does nail its core moment-to-moment gameplay to a much greater degree.

That said, you do echo many critiques even brought up by the fans of Destiny. "Do the level backwards" missions have never been well-received (though they've cut down drastically on them since D1). The weird "One quest/vendor NPC on each planet" is something of a memetic joke at this point. Almost the entire community thinks that PvE and PvP need to be separated so a sense of actual power can be added to PvE. And Light Level doing basically nothing is a long running gripe.

Destiny is literally just a Skinner box with a bit of game around it, and people like Skinner boxes.

Lufia Erim:
It's fun.Remember fun? Before the escapist became a hate filled cercle jerk? Not every game is for everyone. Get over it.

Or I can replay stuff like BulletStorm and Blood Dragon over and over again for much more fun and better gameplay too. I played the beta for Destiny 1 and deleted it in less than an hour. I looked at the skill tree and there wasn't even a skill to reload and run at the same time. And, Peter Dinklage and Gina Torres both sounded incredibly bored with the whole thing as well.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
Unfortunately, Destiny 2 suffered the exact same issues that the first game had and launched with a really lackluster story and content. It's really weird how Bungie didn't seem to have learned anything from Destiny 1, though just like with Destiny 1, Destiny 2 got a lot better with time.

Destiny 2 is not a traditional MMO, it's more of a COOP looter-shooter with MMO elements like raids and dungeons. The game really shines with its excellent gameplay though which is something most MMO's lack in my opinion. At the end of the day, it's a good game, especially if you have friends to do raids with.

Just like The Taken King with Destiny 1, Forsaken is a breath of fresh air for Destiny 2, there's now tons of stuff to do and you don't finish everything in 1-2 days then wait a week for the reset to do it again. Now is an excellent time to jump into the game for both new and old players.

Oh and Forsaken actually comes with a good story and good writing which is nice.

So you need to buy DLC to actually make the game good?

The reason Bungie didn't learn anything from Destiny 1 is because their tech is literally garbage and they can't make content in a timely matter at all so they have to put bullshit microtransactions into the game while cutting content from the main game to make it DLC to actually meet their contractual obligations. Bungie were the ones that went to Activision to add microtransactions, not the other way around.

pure.Wasted:
Destiny 2 otoh feels like one step up from an indie roguelike that was made on a shoestring budget. "Of course there's only two environments, that's because it was made for $50!" The fuck is Destiny's excuse? Nathan Fillion and Lance Reddick asked for too much money?

Watch the video just above this to see why Destiny 2 has minimal content. Not only was Destiny 2 actually rebooted mid-development, Bungie's tech is also garbage taking literally 8 hours to simply load a map to edit it.

Silentpony:
Destiny never had an appeal to begin with. 1 was a borefest, 2 was the same borefest, admittedly streamlined, but with someone more bore.
whether they want to admit it or not, Destiny is Halo Online, so unless you thought Halo was a story-rich game, but didn't really care about the story, then Destiny has no appeal.

This.

Lufia Erim:
It's fun.Remember fun? Before the escapist became a hate filled cercle jerk? Not every game is for everyone. Get over it.

You're right. If you enjoy the game more power to you; it just too bad there are plenty of games better than Destiny 1 or 2. FPS or not. The fact that one of the unholy trinity published the games and go out of the way to screw people over is not helping. Before anyone starts, here you go:



KingsGambit:
I don't know how a company with the reputation I understand Bungie to have could make something so boring and devoid of fun. It is as tho at every point in the game's design, when given a choice between making the game more fun, or less, they went with less.

Slow class ability recharge times, skinnerbox loot mechanics, lootboxes, boring weapons (with shotguns and snipers put into the massively restricted "power weapons" group), can't even chat in an *online multiplayer* game. No interaction with other players, no trading or economy. Enemies that scale throughout, so combat is precisely the same at the very start of the game as at lvl 20.

I suspect this game was meddled with by corporate execs. It reeks of design-by-committee with no clear vision. It's the mass-market appeal shooter taken to the nth degree, then made always online to push lootboxes for real money on players. A real shame, I actually have buyer's remorse on this one.

What's odd is I personally think the same for Halo. I've played 1 and 2's campaign, 3 online, and parts of Reach. I haven't played any Destiny but would hope it'd be more interesting. It should have had a chance to be that way due to its setting, mechanics and loot system but I'm not a big fan of online shooters or online games in general.

I often think the only reason Halo was so popular in the first place was because it was the only decent Xbox launch title and Microsoft hyped the shit out of it. Then console shooters kinda took off from there, even though still to this day I'd rather play Goldeneye and Turok 2 with the funky N64 controllers. I guess I'm a bit weird.

CoCage:
The fact that one of the unholy trinity published the games and go out of the way to screw people over is not helping.

It was actually Bungie themselves responsible for most of the Destiny shit, not Activision.

Phoenixmgs:

So you need to buy DLC to actually make the game good?

The reason Bungie didn't learn anything from Destiny 1 is because their tech is literally garbage and they can't make content in a timely matter at all so they have to put bullshit microtransactions into the game while cutting content from the main game to make it DLC to actually meet their contractual obligations. Bungie were the ones that went to Activision to add microtransactions, not the other way around.

Not at all, the game was still good when it came out, nothing spectacular or anything but the shooting, the looting, and the raiding was/is still a lot of fun. But it did also leave more to be desired, what I was saying is that Forsaken fixed a lot of the problems that the game had when it launched which is both really great and really annoying at the same time because they did the exact same thing with Destiny 1, so it shouldn't even have happened in the first place.

hanselthecaretaker:

What?s odd is I personally think the same for Halo. I?ve played 1 and 2?s campaign, 3 online, and parts of Reach. I haven?t played any Destiny but would hope it?d be more interesting. It should have had a chance to be that way due to its setting, mechanics and loot system but I?m not a big fan of online shooters or online games in general.

I often think the only reason Halo was so popular in the first place was because it was the only decent Xbox launch title and Microsoft hyped the shit out of it. Then console shooters kinda took off from there, even though still to this day I?d rather play Goldeneye and Turok 2 with the funky N64 controllers. I guess I?m a bit weird.

Halo was a gaming phenomenon, it was a lot more than just a ''decent xbox launch title'' that was hyped, no company can create that amount of hype for just a decent game. I was hoping for Destiny to be like a new Halo with MMO elements, which is probably why I was so incredibly disappointed with it in the end.

Lufia Erim:
It's fun.Remember fun? Before the escapist became a hate filled cercle jerk? Not every game is for everyone. Get over it.

No, every game is shit now. It has been set in stone. Your favourite waifu game? Shit. Sorry.

OT: I enjoyed my time with it, although I did drop off when it became a major grindfest and my co-op running buddy decided to drop out as he put around 200 hours into it in a month and a half. Still, if I can get 50/60 hours of playtime out of something, I consider it at least decent.

Phoenixmgs:

CoCage:
The fact that one of the unholy trinity published the games and go out of the way to screw people over is not helping.

It was actually Bungie themselves responsible for most of the Destiny shit, not Activision.

True, but let's be honest here, if they wouldn't have done it; Activision would have made the same decisions. In other words: same difference,

Phoenixmgs:

pure.Wasted:
Destiny 2 otoh feels like one step up from an indie roguelike that was made on a shoestring budget. "Of course there's only two environments, that's because it was made for $50!" The fuck is Destiny's excuse? Nathan Fillion and Lance Reddick asked for too much money?

Watch the video just above this to see why Destiny 2 has minimal content. Not only was Destiny 2 actually rebooted mid-development, Bungie's tech is also garbage taking literally 8 hours to simply load a map to edit it.

Good video, thanks for linking.

I just checked Metacritic. ME:A, another game that had a lot of behind-the-scenes complications and didn't succeed at everything it tried to do, has a score of 71 for PS4. OK, sure, let's say that's fair. So Destiny's gotta be like a 40 right? 85, motherfucker. 85. What in the shit. I mean I know gaming journalism isn't worth the paper it's not printed on, but fuck me, in what universe is that remotely reflective of what these games actually attempt and/or accomplish? And before anyone says "but Destiny 2 has really good shooting," the gameplay of ME:A was actually UNIVERSALLY PRAISED. It was like the one part of the game that EVERYONE thought was a huge improvement for the franchise. I'm gonna stop thinking about this because it's destroying my brain.

pure.Wasted:

Phoenixmgs:

pure.Wasted:
Destiny 2 otoh feels like one step up from an indie roguelike that was made on a shoestring budget. "Of course there's only two environments, that's because it was made for $50!" The fuck is Destiny's excuse? Nathan Fillion and Lance Reddick asked for too much money?

Watch the video just above this to see why Destiny 2 has minimal content. Not only was Destiny 2 actually rebooted mid-development, Bungie's tech is also garbage taking literally 8 hours to simply load a map to edit it.

Good video, thanks for linking.

I just checked Metacritic. ME:A, another game that had a lot of behind-the-scenes complications and didn't succeed at everything it tried to do, has a score of 71 for PS4. OK, sure, let's say that's fair. So Destiny's gotta be like a 40 right? 85, motherfucker. 85. What in the shit. I mean I know gaming journalism isn't worth the paper it's not printed on, but fuck me, in what universe is that remotely reflective of what these games actually attempt and/or accomplish? And before anyone says "but Destiny 2 has really good shooting," the gameplay of ME:A was actually UNIVERSALLY PRAISED. It was like the one part of the game that EVERYONE thought was a huge improvement for the franchise. I'm gonna stop thinking about this because it's destroying my brain.

MEA had lots of bugs, really poor animations (Especially facial animations), laughable face models etc and that's just the technical mess side of the game.

I have 67 hours in Andromeda but I'm having trouble coming up with anything it did better than Destiny 2.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:

Phoenixmgs:

So you need to buy DLC to actually make the game good?

The reason Bungie didn't learn anything from Destiny 1 is because their tech is literally garbage and they can't make content in a timely matter at all so they have to put bullshit microtransactions into the game while cutting content from the main game to make it DLC to actually meet their contractual obligations. Bungie were the ones that went to Activision to add microtransactions, not the other way around.

Not at all, the game was still good when it came out, nothing spectacular or anything but the shooting, the looting, and the raiding was/is still a lot of fun. But it did also leave more to be desired, what I was saying is that Forsaken fixed a lot of the problems that the game had when it launched which is both really great and really annoying at the same time because they did the exact same thing with Destiny 1, so it shouldn't even have happened in the first place.

hanselthecaretaker:

What?s odd is I personally think the same for Halo. I?ve played 1 and 2?s campaign, 3 online, and parts of Reach. I haven?t played any Destiny but would hope it?d be more interesting. It should have had a chance to be that way due to its setting, mechanics and loot system but I?m not a big fan of online shooters or online games in general.

I often think the only reason Halo was so popular in the first place was because it was the only decent Xbox launch title and Microsoft hyped the shit out of it. Then console shooters kinda took off from there, even though still to this day I?d rather play Goldeneye and Turok 2 with the funky N64 controllers. I guess I?m a bit weird.

Halo was a gaming phenomenon, it was a lot more than just a ''decent xbox launch title'' that was hyped, no company can create that amount of hype for just a decent game. I was hoping for Destiny to be like a new Halo with MMO elements, which is probably why I was so incredibly disappointed with it in the end.

I just have a tough time believing it was because it was that good of a game vs simply having the right ingredients to be mega popular; kinda like how CoD has been since taking the console shooter crown. Neither of these IPs ever did anything exceptionally well technically or artistically when it comes to visuals or gameplay. There were brighter than average spots like enemy AI in Halo or a high image quality:performance ratio in CoD, but in general the main constant for either was simply having "fun" multiplayer modes and a compelling progression system.

hanselthecaretaker:

I just have a tough time believing it was because it was that good of a game vs simply having the right ingredients to be mega popular; kinda like how CoD has been since taking the console shooter crown. Neither of these IPs ever did anything exceptionally well technically or artistically when it comes to visuals or gameplay. There were brighter than average spots like enemy AI in Halo or a high image quality:performance ratio in CoD, but in general the main constant for either was simply having ?fun? multiplayer modes and a compelling progression system.

The right ingredients were (For Bungies Halo games) a compelling story and good storytelling, great graphics for the time, great gameplay, amazing OST, iconic characters, great multiplayer etc

A game series simply can't get that huge just because it has fun multiplayer modes and a progression system, what are the ''right ingredients'' that made the series huge in your opinion?

CoCage:

Phoenixmgs:

CoCage:
The fact that one of the unholy trinity published the games and go out of the way to screw people over is not helping.

It was actually Bungie themselves responsible for most of the Destiny shit, not Activision.

True, but let's be honest here, if they wouldn't have done it; Activision would have made the same decisions. In other words: same difference,

Regardless if Activision had demanded microtransactions and cutting content for revenue reasons instead of Bungie, it is still Bungie's technical incompetence that caused it all.

pure.Wasted:
Good video, thanks for linking.

I just checked Metacritic. ME:A, another game that had a lot of behind-the-scenes complications and didn't succeed at everything it tried to do, has a score of 71 for PS4. OK, sure, let's say that's fair. So Destiny's gotta be like a 40 right? 85, motherfucker. 85. What in the shit. I mean I know gaming journalism isn't worth the paper it's not printed on, but fuck me, in what universe is that remotely reflective of what these games actually attempt and/or accomplish? And before anyone says "but Destiny 2 has really good shooting," the gameplay of ME:A was actually UNIVERSALLY PRAISED. It was like the one part of the game that EVERYONE thought was a huge improvement for the franchise. I'm gonna stop thinking about this because it's destroying my brain.

You don't have to tell me about game reviews, they are just advertisements. The chances of anything in any medium being being rated so consistently high across ~100 different people to reach an 80 average score is pretty rare. The fact that most games are rated 80+ is a joke. With regards to Destiny 2's higher score over the 1st game is probably the story/campaign was probably better and that's really all they play. For how bad reviewers are already, they are at least 10 times worse with regards to multiplayer/service type games. Whether it's Destiny 2 or Overwatch or Battlefield 5, they are not going to play the game for the length it takes to actually understand stuff like balance issues or the drop rates of loot. If it was good for 10 hours or so, then 8/10 even when the game is specifically designed for long-term play and not just a weekend.

BabyfartsMcgeezaks:
I have 67 hours in Andromeda but I'm having trouble coming up with anything it did better than Destiny 2.

I haven't played Andromeda but if it plays like past ME games like I'm pretty sure it does, then it definitely does powers in a better way than Destiny; more of them and you can use them far more often. Destiny is far too much of a straight shooter than it should be.

Phoenixmgs:

CoCage:

Phoenixmgs:

It was actually Bungie themselves responsible for most of the Destiny shit, not Activision.

True, but let's be honest here, if they wouldn't have done it; Activision would have made the same decisions. In other words: same difference,

Regardless if Activision had demanded microtransactions and cutting content for revenue reasons instead of Bungie, it is still Bungie's technical incompetence that caused it all.

Activision did nothing to stop it, so they're just as responsible.

I think a lot of people here are comparing Destiny 2 to the wrong games. For all intents and purposes it is a first person action RPG that's always online. Its closest analogies are not WoW or single player shooters, but Borderlands and hack'n'slash RPGs like Diablo.

What Destiny 2 does it does really well. Whether it does enough to keep a player hooked for the long game is another matter.

Gethsemani:
I think a lot of people here are comparing Destiny 2 to the wrong games. For all intents and purposes it is a first person action RPG that's always online. Its closest analogies are not WoW or single player shooters, but Borderlands and hack'n'slash RPGs like Diablo.

What Destiny 2 does it does really well. Whether it does enough to keep a player hooked for the long game is another matter.

Actually the problem is Destiny doesn't know what the fuck it is, it doesn't know if it wants to be Borderlands or WoW and fails at both, with some Halo, Call of Duty and Mass Effect sprinkled in...poorly.

Plus Destiny's reliance on things that equate to MMO raids also keeps it squarely in the ring against them, again poorly.

Saelune:

Gethsemani:
I think a lot of people here are comparing Destiny 2 to the wrong games. For all intents and purposes it is a first person action RPG that's always online. Its closest analogies are not WoW or single player shooters, but Borderlands and hack'n'slash RPGs like Diablo.

What Destiny 2 does it does really well. Whether it does enough to keep a player hooked for the long game is another matter.

Actually the problem is Destiny doesn't know what the fuck it is, it doesn't know if it wants to be Borderlands or WoW and fails at both, with some Halo, Call of Duty and Mass Effect sprinkled in...poorly.

Plus Destiny's reliance on things that equate to MMO raids also keeps it squarely in the ring against them, again poorly.

Yeah, pretty much. I remember playing the alpha of Destiny 1 and pretty much seeing the game was designed as a standard multiplayer shooter as classes themselves weren't very different and powers basically functioned as killstreaks. Even the skills in the tree were very basic to not upset PvP balance. Then, they just added the looter-shooter and MMO elements (loot system & raids) onto that base to make it a "10-year game". It didn't strive to do much outside of Bungie's comfort zone at all. Stuff like Borderlands, Overwatch, Battleborn, Warframe do way more in giving different playstyles and character build options than Destiny.

I find it interesting it's always the outsiders or 'played it for an hour or two' that discredit the raids as a negative.

The raids are for the most part, pretty amazing. Certainly havent run into anything similar in the shooter genre. They're obviously endgame, which keeps the 'tried it and it was boring' internet critics from experiencing them, but they were pretty excellent end game.

Elijin:
I find it interesting it's always the outsiders or 'played it for an hour or two' that discredit the raids as a negative.

The raids are for the most part, pretty amazing. Certainly havent run into anything similar in the shooter genre. They're obviously endgame, which keeps the 'tried it and it was boring' internet critics from experiencing them, but they were pretty excellent end game.

I wouldn't quite go as calling them amazing, but the raids are a good way to spend an afternoon yelling at my clanmates :P. I find it interesting from my clan's perspective at least that we've kinda forgotten about the Eater of Worlds lair. We're currently gearing up for the Forsaken raid, when that drops, but if we're gathering up for a raid, we're either looking to run Leviathan prestige, or guiding people through the Spire of Stars lair. I guess that kinda lines up with Curse of Osiris being kinda meh overall.

The Eupho Guy:

Elijin:
I find it interesting it's always the outsiders or 'played it for an hour or two' that discredit the raids as a negative.

The raids are for the most part, pretty amazing. Certainly havent run into anything similar in the shooter genre. They're obviously endgame, which keeps the 'tried it and it was boring' internet critics from experiencing them, but they were pretty excellent end game.

I wouldn't quite go as calling them amazing, but the raids are a good way to spend an afternoon yelling at my clanmates :P. I find it interesting from my clan's perspective at least that we've kinda forgotten about the Eater of Worlds lair. We're currently gearing up for the Forsaken raid, when that drops, but if we're gathering up for a raid, we're either looking to run Leviathan prestige, or guiding people through the Spire of Stars lair. I guess that kinda lines up with Curse of Osiris being kinda meh overall.

The Raids have had kind of a lot of running issues, and there's some historical context behind the negative perceptions of Leviathan.

Vault of Glass had severe reward inconsistencies (Forever 28/29 syndrome), although the entire raid was generally concerned a fairly fun well done experience (even the forced stealth and platforming segment). Then it got left behind by expansions.

Crota was fun, but kind of short. And so so many people were cheesing the bugs in it constantly that it became tough to find a group to play legitimately with which diluted the experience. Then it got left behind by expansions (running theme here).

Skolas got a lot of flak for not having a traditional raid, and also seeming to be balanced behind having ludicrously optimal gear (Gjallahorn). How much of that latter was down to an increasingly toxic LFG community is up for grabs (I did it with my clan with no Gjallahorns and not even a damn bubble Titan, so lol). And again left behind by expansions.

Taken King saw the return of WTF rewards dropping at completely random power levels even more then original Vault of Glass. Also a lot of platforming, and Destiny is definitely not a good platforming game, jumps are floaty as hell and traction is an alien concept to it, even if you did use a sword to get into third person. Also every boss encounter boiled down to standing in a tight circle firing snipers at the enemy, which was dull as dishwater. No sword bearer, no portal teams, just everyone doing the same identical thing for a DPS check. And left behind by expansions (which would be fine, except Destiny needs all the endgame content it can get, so ditching some of the best stuff is a problem)

Wrath of the Machine was probably the best of them. There was distinct stuff and multi-positioning all over the place. The spectacle of the Zamboni (War Machine, lol). Lots of interaction and requirement for a team that couldn't just be done in principle by multiplying your damage by 6.

Leviathan comparatively, was a big step down. The rewards got even more screwy then ever before (half the time you got tokens that only were redeemable if you finished the whole thing). The whole bit with the dogs is just awkward as hell, and even poorer stealth implementation then Bungie has done previously in the franchise. Its not as obnoxious as Taken King's, but the running segment was again highlighting Bungie's not terribly precise platforming mechanics, and didn't really engage the core gameplay. They brought back the circle of DPS check mechanics again, and Calus' shadow realm thing was kind of a horrible mess of visual noise.

And yeah, no one ever does Curse of Osiris stuff. And I never got high enough light level for the Warmind one because they made the idiotic idea of locking light level upgrades only to the milestones, and RNG never decided to give me the right item slots to progress.

Gethsemani:
Its closest analogies are not WoW or single player shooters, but Borderlands and hack'n'slash RPGs like Diablo.

That was the impression I got. A bunch of my friends picked up the game and said it was great, but looking at it I said "It looks like Borderlands, but less fun and with a more boring art style, not interested"

A few months later, none of my friends were playing it anymore and my choice to pass on it was vindicated.

If I want a grindy shoot and loot, I'll play warframe.

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