Right, so I just want to get this off my chest without starting a flame war and without trolling if possible. This is how I feel.

This 'hardcore games' and 'hardcore consoles' business is bullshit. It's been played out moreso than the 'next-gen' buzzword (I mean seriously, this generation has been here for four years now), and obviously enforced by gamers who feel that a recent wave of games that don't appeal to them are destroying their favourite pass-time by being simplistic in design, and wish to differentiate themselves from such titles.

There is no 'hardcore console' or 'casual console', there are just consoles, just like there are no 'hardcore games' there are just games, and you can only be hardcore at games in particular. The PS3 is in no way shape or form more 'hardcore' a console than the 360 or the Wii, and vice versa, as well as the Wii not being any more of a 'casual' console, and it annoys me when any consoles are labelled as such.

For example, if you spend your time playing CoD4, and generally own everyone, then you are a Hardcore CoD4 gamer by the old standard of thinking...

So if you spend your time playing peggle, and know the game by heart or are a master of the game, then are you not a Hardcore Peggle gamer, thus making you a hardcore gamer? Are you still considered to be a casual gamer if you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggle#Championships win the Peggle European Grand Championships?

Playing Gears Of War does not make you a hardcore gamer, but collecting all the COG tags and achievements does.

There have been too many media articles and other people that have been spouting nonsense about hardcore games when, what makes them hardcore? What makes a game, and what makes a hardcore game? I'm trying to form this into a form of discussion as I go, but I'm sure it's not working (especially if it makes no sense), and two different topics of conversation probably doesn't help.

Either way, end of rant. I may edit for more coherence later.

It's coherent enough already, though I doubt you're going to convince anyone. I do agree, however.

Casual gamer: Plays Mostly for fun
Hardcore gamer: Plays Mostly for the challenge

That's what it seems like you're trying to say.

And I agree with it.

Technically people who play Microsoft chess online are hardcore gamers.

miracleofsound:
I would define a hardcore game as one that requires an investment of a large amount of time and effort from the gamer to complete or become competent at.

I agree entirely.
Also congrats on 2000

The term was spawned by people who kept getting hit with the "well, while you were doing that, I was out having sex with girls" arguement.

If they're a 'hardcore' gamer, then it sounds like they're the Rambo of button-pressing. It's basically announcing themselves king of those with a hollow social life, rather than a failed attempt at leading a great social life.

Then the name became catchy, and people stuck it on everything that was difficult that was either mainstream or involved explosions of some kind. Solving a near-impossible Mario level isn't hardcore, but throw in a few super-soldiers and a fat lump of a protagonist with no hair and a gun the size of their tree-trunk arms, and now its hardcore.

Trying to attach the term to specific parameters is an uphill struggle, due to the diversity and differences in quality of games on the market.

EDIT- I wrote 'meerkat', not market. Best mistake ever.

OP, do you honestly believe that PS3/360 are just as casual as the WII? Seriously?

DonkeysAndClipboards:
OP, do you honestly believe that PS3/360 are just as casual as the WII? Seriously?

I don't think you read what he put properly.

Also, this thread seems to have an inhumane amount of views.

I agree, Always have found it kind of amazing in a good way how games are getting shorter and easier to play rather then viewing it as a bad thing. When you have limited free time and real life you have to juggle it's nice to come home and just play for a few hours either with friends or family before bed.Personally I end up hating all the "hardcore" games anyways that people seem so rabid about.

I feel a lot of issues on why some people are "hardcore" is just they are afraid of change. They remember the old days when it was only men and/or people who played alone in a dark room for hours staring at a single screen for a high score. While now days it is becoming much easier to come home from work,Fix dinner then play a few hours with your SO before your favorite tv show comes on.

Couldn't agree more, to me anyone who labels themselves as a hardcore gamer because of the console they play has a bit of an inferiority complex. Why feel the need to place yourself above someone based on how "hardcore" your choice of console? It just makes no sense to me. Surely a real gamer would be lapping up any decent game on any system rather than trying to differentiate themselves by annointing each other with a hardcore label.

I reckon the Wii is for casual gamers...im talkin sup? kinda casual

ps3 is for medium gamers ..... and for hardcore gamers it is more the 360 coz you dont get
all the shiny tools that the ps3 has its more purely gaming plus it has better games :P

In my opinion

but the most hardcore console would be the SNES
gotta love it

Hardcore is pretty meaningless without a lot of context. Just another attempt to over simplify things and make crazy assumptions about other people based on a small amount of anecdotal evidence. Not everyone engages with games in the same way even if their background and circumstances are the same.

Ah, another fellow escapist that hates the term "hardcore" as much as I do. Not to mention you gave an extremely good point on how any person that plays games could technically reach that coveted title, and it doesn't HAVE to involve playing Halo or Gears. I say scrap that entire term from the depths of our gaming world.

ChromeAlchemist:
Right, so I just want to get this off my chest without starting a flame war and without trolling if possible. This is how I feel.

This 'hardcore games' and 'hardcore consoles' business is bullshit. It's been played out moreso than the 'next-gen' buzzword (I mean seriously, this generation has been here for four years now), and obviously enforced by gamers who feel that a recent wave of games that don't appeal to them are destroying their favourite pass-time by being simplistic in design, and wish to differentiate themselves from such titles.

There is no 'hardcore console' or 'casual console', there are just consoles, just like there are no 'hardcore games' there are just games, and you can only be hardcore at games in particular. The PS3 is in no way shape or form more 'hardcore' a console than the 360 or the Wii, and vice versa, as well as the Wii not being any more of a 'casual' console, and it annoys me when any consoles are labelled as such.

For example, if you spend your time playing CoD4, and generally own everyone, then you are a Hardcore CoD4 gamer by the old standard of thinking...

So if you spend your time playing peggle, and know the game by heart or are a master of the game, then are you not a Hardcore Peggle gamer, thus making you a hardcore gamer? Are you still considered to be a casual gamer if you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggle#Championships win the Peggle European Grand Championships?

Playing Gears Of War does not make you a hardcore gamer, but collecting all the COG tags and achievements does.

There have been too many media articles and other people that have been spouting nonsense about hardcore games when, what makes them hardcore? What makes a game, and what makes a hardcore game? I'm trying to form this into a form of discussion as I go, but I'm sure it's not working (especially if it makes no sense), and two different topics of conversation probably doesn't help.

Either way, end of rant. I may edit for more coherence later.

I agree with you.

Plus everybody knows that the only hardcore gamers are the ones still playing Quake2 and the ones who have seen all the endings of Falout2. :D

xmetatr0nx:
While the 360 with its ease of play

I don't really understand this bit.

Are you implying that the games on the 360 are easier than those on the PS3?

DM.:
Casual gamer: Plays Mostly for fun
Hardcore gamer: Plays Mostly for the challenge

That's what it seems like you're trying to say.

And I agree with it.

Technically people who play Microsoft chess online are hardcore gamers.

This.
I agree with you, OP, in some of the stuff you are saying, but it just doesn't seem possible for the Wii to be considered a "Hardcore" console compared to the PS3 and 360. In fact, Nintendo is specifically targeting the non-hardcore gamers with the Wii. It is a console for "casual" gamers. Not saying there is not any games on it that coudl be considered "hardcore" but in general terms, the PS3 and 360 are much more "hardcore" than the Wii.

xmetatr0nx:
My bad that bit was rushed, i hate typing out long explenations. It was meant to imply that because the 360 has a huge game library there are more choices for casual players to just pick up and play for an hour and then wander off to something else. Again though this all really doesnt matter because labeling these consoles as hardcore or not is completely subjective.

Ahh ok gotcha. I was a bit confused by that :P.

I do agree though. Although, there seems to be a massing of more casual and user friendly titles streaming to the PS3. Mainly centered around user created content.

j0z:

DM.:
Casual gamer: Plays Mostly for fun
Hardcore gamer: Plays Mostly for the challenge

That's what it seems like you're trying to say.

And I agree with it.

Technically people who play Microsoft chess online are hardcore gamers.

This.
I agree with you, OP, in some of the stuff you are saying, but it just doesn't seem possible for the Wii to be considered a "Hardcore" console compared to the PS3 and 360. In fact, Nintendo is specifically targeting the non-hardcore gamers with the Wii. It is a console for "casual" gamers. Not saying there is not any games on it that coudl be considered "hardcore" but in general terms, the PS3 and 360 are much more "hardcore" than the Wii.

Thanks for the input, but that wasn't my point. My point was there is no 'hardcore' console or 'casual' console. The consoles themselves have a wealth of games that appeal to everyone. Hardcore gamers can own a Wii, while what people consider to be casual gamers can own a 360 arcade. The 360 is no more hardcore than the Wii like Call of Duty is no more hardcore than Super Mario Bros. Games are games, and what you make of them is what makes YOU hardcore, but not the product, those are subjective opinion.

Is it right to call the Peggle champion a casual gamer for the type of game she plays, while there are people out there being called hardcore gamers for completing FPS titles once and never playing them again? Ignore what the games content for a bit, and think about the fact that a 'casual' gamer would approach a title by completing it once and never playing it again, while a hardcore gamer would run through every aspect of it for their own enjoyment.

Nintendo were not actually aiming at solely the non gaming audience with the Nintendo Wii, but everyone. If that were not the case there would not be a number of games that are aimed at the core gaming audience. All of these consoles can and have been used by everyone, and do not have an affinity to a certain gaming sect. To call any console 'hardcore' is incorrect.

DM.:

DonkeysAndClipboards:
OP, do you honestly believe that PS3/360 are just as casual as the WII? Seriously?

I don't think you read what he put properly.

Also, this thread seems to have an inhumane amount of views.

Jesus, you're right! That's ridiculous, but not so many posts, and I wonder why?

Plus I don't remember who did a number crunch of views versus posts (it ended up being 10 views for every one post) but this seems to be the exception to his theory.

Fallen_Hitokiri:
I reckon the Wii is for casual gamers...im talkin sup? kinda casual

ps3 is for medium gamers ..... and for hardcore gamers it is more the 360 coz you dont get
all the shiny tools that the ps3 has its more purely gaming plus it has better games :P

In my opinion

but the most hardcore console would be the SNES
gotta love it

Do you think the SNES would have been considered 'hardcore' back in the 80s? It was the in thing back in the day, and scores of children played it then.

A hardcore gamer is any person capable of beating you in your favourite game. (joke)

No seriously, I don't get this hardcore label thing. There are people who are really good at games, kudos to them but no need to label something that speaks for itself. I know when I've been owned by a really experienced player in Halo, you don't need to tell me he/she's hardcore (and you don't need to tea-bag me either...) >|(

And as for "hardcore" consoles... don't make me laugh. Super Mario 64 wasn't what you'd describe as "hardcore" but it still had me tearing my hair out and barking at the moon after getting to the later missions. Being able to collect all 150 or God knows how many stars in a human lifetime is "hardcore" play, merely playing gears of war is not.

ChromeAlchemist:

j0z:

DM.:
Casual gamer: Plays Mostly for fun
Hardcore gamer: Plays Mostly for the challenge

That's what it seems like you're trying to say.

And I agree with it.

Technically people who play Microsoft chess online are hardcore gamers.

This.
I agree with you, OP, in some of the stuff you are saying, but it just doesn't seem possible for the Wii to be considered a "Hardcore" console compared to the PS3 and 360. In fact, Nintendo is specifically targeting the non-hardcore gamers with the Wii. It is a console for "casual" gamers. Not saying there is not any games on it that coudl be considered "hardcore" but in general terms, the PS3 and 360 are much more "hardcore" than the Wii.

Thanks for the input, but that wasn't my point. My point was there is no 'hardcore' console or 'casual' console. The consoles themselves have a wealth of games that appeal to everyone. Hardcore gamers can own a Wii, while what people consider to be casual gamers can own a 360 arcade. The 360 is no more hardcore than the Wii like Call of Duty is no more hardcore than Super Mario Bros. Games are games, and what you make of them is what makes YOU hardcore, but not the product, those are subjective opinion.

Is it right to call the Peggle champion a casual gamer for the type of game she plays, while there are people out there being called hardcore gamers for completing FPS titles once and never playing them again? Ignore what the games content for a bit, and think about the fact that a 'casual' gamer would approach a title by completing it once and never playing it again, while a hardcore gamer would run through every aspect of it for their own enjoyment.

Nintendo were not actually aiming at solely the non gaming audience with the Nintendo Wii, but everyone. If that were not the case there would not be a number of games that are aimed at the core gaming audience. All of these consoles can and have been used by everyone, and do not have an affinity to a certain gaming sect. To call any console 'hardcore' is incorrect.

DM.:

DonkeysAndClipboards:
OP, do you honestly believe that PS3/360 are just as casual as the WII? Seriously?

I don't think you read what he put properly.

Also, this thread seems to have an inhumane amount of views.

Jesus, you're right! That's ridiculous, but not so many posts, and I wonder why?

Plus I don't remember who did a number crunch of views versus posts (it ended up being 10 views for every one post) but this seems to be the exception to his theory.

Fallen_Hitokiri:
I reckon the Wii is for casual gamers...im talkin sup? kinda casual

ps3 is for medium gamers ..... and for hardcore gamers it is more the 360 coz you dont get
all the shiny tools that the ps3 has its more purely gaming plus it has better games :P

In my opinion

but the most hardcore console would be the SNES
gotta love it

Do you think the SNES would have been considered 'hardcore' back in the 80s? It was the in thing back in the day, and scores of children played it then.

Was bout as hardcore as fried bread
but o well
Its not the 80s and if goin by hardcore you mean people who play games literally all the time
rather than once a year and people who play games non stop etc
I would go for the SNES for the console to do it on
and yeh the dreamcast is awesome
but i still prefer the snes

Chiasm:
I agree, Always have found it kind of amazing in a good way how games are getting shorter and easier to play rather then viewing it as a bad thing. When you have limited free time and real life you have to juggle it's nice to come home and just play for a few hours either with friends or family before bed.Personally I end up hating all the "hardcore" games anyways that people seem so rabid about.

I feel a lot of issues on why some people are "hardcore" is just they are afraid of change. They remember the old days when it was only men and/or people who played alone in a dark room for hours staring at a single screen for a high score. While now days it is becoming much easier to come home from work,Fix dinner then play a few hours with your SO before your favorite tv show comes on.

Some people prefer to invest significant time into gaming, others don't. People who like to play games seriously are one audience, people who do it on the side are another. Some games are designed to appeal to one group, some are for the other. Neither is 'better' than the other. You obviously like 'casual' games. But don't dismiss the other crowd as being simply too 'afraid of change' to recognize what in your eyes is a good thing. You should recognize that some people think differently from you and like different things than you.

The thing that irks me is that hardcore has become a synonym for masochist. Hell, people even find ways to make otherwise fun games into a chore. "You're not hardcore, unless you level/play/use weapons exactly the way I do, because it gives you the most dps/fastest playthrough/biggest e-peen." Screw you, I'll play the game however I goddamn please. I'm sorry, but if playing game so you can get some kind of enjoyment out of them makes you casual, then I'm the most casual gamer on earth.

SilentHunter7:
The thing that irks me is that hardcore has become a synonym for masochist. Hell, people even find ways to make otherwise fun games into a chore. "You're not hardcore, unless you level/play/use weapons exactly the way I do, because it gives you the most dps/fastest playthrough/biggest e-peen." Screw you, I'll play the game however I goddamn please. I'm sorry, but if playing game so you can get some kind of enjoyment out of them makes you casual, then I'm the most casual gamer on earth.

You forgot the "I'm going to do this using the worst weapon only" guys.

Alchemist, I agree with you 100%. Seriously people need to stop calling themselves "hardcore" just because they play on the 360/PS3 and games like Halo,Gears, Resistance, etc. No console is hardcore, and no games, save for a select few, should be called that either. The only way I'd consider you to be "hardcore" is if you play a diverse selection of games in all genres, beat all games 100% a few times over, and had all consoles and a pretty damn good PC. You play games not only because they are challenging, but because you enjoy playing video games. And that my friends is my definition of "hardcore".

DM.:

You forgot the "I'm going to do this using the worst weapon only" guys.

Oh no, you misunderstand. I don't care if someone wants to play through Doom 3 using only the flashlight. My problem is assholes who come on and say we're stupid/casual/not playing the game right if we don't play a certain optimized way, or havent vested over 9000 hours to be able to play on super-expert-nightmare mode plus plus, because they think that playing a difficulty where you die two seconds into a fight is how the game is meant to be played. But if they want to put themselves through that torture, good for them. :P

Fredrick2003:

DonkeysAndClipboards:
OP, do you honestly believe that PS3/360 are just as casual as the WII? Seriously?

I am sure he does.

And I agree with him.

seconded. its not the system you play, it's how you play it ;)

Ah Hardcore...another one of those annoying buzz words on my list of annoying game memes.

This thread is hardcore :p