Everyone is excited about Microsofts stance at the motion controller.

I've have serveral times seen posts on this very forum from exited gamers what Microsoft is bringing to the table as far as games goes with the Nathal.

Who the hell are you trying to fool, really?
Do people honestly believe that Nathal is a way to enhance "hardcore" gaming?
People(fanboys *ehum*) sporadically and frenetically debate how the Nathal would be awesome in Halo 4 or your average generic space-marine third-person shooter on the Xbox 360.

The demos and clips that were showcased as E3 for the Nathal were nothing but casual titles, party-games etc. Microsoft is leaning towards the casual gaming boat with Nathal and what surprises me is that the people who call themselves "hardcore" are running 100 mph in the wrong direction. Rather than supporting the Nathal, they should oppose it.
You seriously don't think Microsoft wants its cut from the casual gaming audience?
The Nathal is one approach to it and to think that you would be able to play any FPS, TPS or RTS with that ...thing is just ludicrous.

The stupidity of fanboys is limitless and it has always eluded me, but crowning Nathal as the "Wii killer" is not only immensly stupid - because even if it did "kill" the Wii you would have a console that is not only abandoning the hardcore gamers and embracing the casual audience but also becoming the king of shovelware. (or wave-you-arms-frenetically-ware)

Is this really what people want?

Is Microsoft abandoning "hardcore" gaming with Project Nathal?
Perhaps claiming that it is; is certainly a bit too harsh but to me as a gamer enthusiast I am terrified that the Nathal will replace the Xbox 360 controller.
Microsoft is leaning towards the Nintendo audience and Nathal is; as far as I know a bridge to that. With FaceBook and Twitter integration to the Xbox Dashboard to me - the message is clear. The Xbox 360 is going further away from being a gaming machine and more of an entertainment machine. Xbox 360 fanboys have bashed the Wii for being the "casual" gamer plague that alegedly is ruining gaming (and perhaps in a way it is) but the Xbox 360 leaning in that direction and everyone supporting it; to me is just senseless.

No more natal threads, use the goddam search bar.

These threads have been done to death, seriously. There's no need for them, they don't promote discussion and always end up in flamewars. I find it amazing you had the temerity to actually LINK to some of these threads in your post.

On topic, no. It isn't. That's all there is to it. This article will explain better than I ever could why not, as well as the ins and outs of such bullshit terms as 'casual'.

No. Project Natal (there's no "h" in it) is not going to replace a standard controller, and it's certainly not going to be the end of "hardcore" gaming. There will still be games that use a standard controller even if Natal is largely successful because there's still large amounts of money to be made off the more traditional games. This is just a way for them to introduce the more everyday gamer to the 360 so they can tap into the market that Nintendo currently dominates. Microsoft still has games like Modern Warfare 2 coming out for their system.

I'd post more, but I can already tell the more intelligent posters on here will cover this much greater than I can.

GuerrillaClock:
On topic, no. It isn't. That's all there is to it. This article will explain better than I ever could why not, as well as the ins and outs of such bullshit terms as 'casual'.

That has to be implemented into a rule on here.

"Before you post a topic on casual gaming, you must read the Birdmen article." We'd get rid of half the topics on here.

Because Microsoft is run by doucebags who don't care about their fans.

Don't believe me? See what they did with Halo Wars.

Xandus117:
Because Microsoft is run by doucebags who don't care about their fans.

Don't believe me? See what they did with Halo Wars.

halo war was not made by microsoft, rather by ensemble studios, and while the game can't hold it's own in the rts genre, it was a competent console rts, and if you didn't like it, don't play it. Simple enough.

Xandus117:
Don't believe me? See what they did with Halo Wars.

You do realize that Halo originally was an RTS game that got scrapped and remade to an FPS?
Ironic how things turn out, eh?

That's noise. They will embrace a non-gamer audience first, that will be their priority with the Natal, no doubt. But it won't kill 'hardcore' gaming (which barely existed to begin with), it will only broaden the audience with it's titles. It can and will be used for core titles, but the majority of it won't. It also can't replace a controller, if there is no controller. It can be released in bundles but it can't replace something tangible, not this generation. The 'Wii killer' and other nonsense is just bullshit hypocrisy by people who decried motion control in games, then say it's the best thing since internet porn when their console gets it.

And the notion of hardcore gaming that people are trying to spread, is incorrect/bullshit (at least in the way they are claiming it to be).

Mr. Fister:

"Before you post a topic on casual gaming, you must read the Birdmen article." We'd get rid of half the topics on here.

We would, but no one is going to read the damned thing. Anyone who that would enlighten would just look at it and say TL;DR, it's a shame. Perhaps we should make some threads on it to spread awareness.

Abandoning hardcore gaming? Bah, humbug. I can't see it.

Yes, absolutely. Microsoft is going to abandon projects like Halo: Reach and Modern Warfare 2 because what everyone really wants is to virtually try on clothing and spastically flail around kicking imaginary kickballs and fighting heavyset kung fu masters.

Microsoft has already pretty much abandoned PC gamers this decade. They have treated "hardcore" gamers much worse than Nintendo who still roll out proper titles for their long term fans. You think that Microsoft are going to be more faithful to their new best console shooter friends than Nintendo are to their Mario and Zelda chums? One word, Ha. Another two, ha ha.

BolognaBaloney:
No more natal threads, use the goddam search bar.

/THREAD

GuerrillaClock:
These threads have been done to death, seriously. There's no need for them, they don't promote discussion and always end up in flamewars. I find it amazing you had the temerity to actually LINK to some of these threads in your post.

On topic, no. It isn't. That's all there is to it. This article will explain better than I ever could why not, as well as the ins and outs of such bullshit terms as 'casual'.

Someone needs to make a thread about that article.

No. The reason the 360 can still hold the "hardcore" audience is because it still maintains the hardware for the graphics intensive and powerful games that we all love. Nintendo has pushed away not only the "hardcore" gaming audience, but also the developers who make "hardcore" games because of how limited the Wii really is.

We've had this debate several times. The largest hardcore game franchise on the Xbox 360 is Halo (please, there is no debate about that, it is simply fact). It has been reported, by the Escapist News Room no less, that Halo: Reach could well end up using Natal. Plus, if used in conjunction with the existing control system, there is no reason other hardcore games couldn't use Natal as well. Motion control doesn't mean hardcore games will suffer, in fact, I feel that motion control is the future of gaming, if done correctly, and looking at Natal I reckon it should easily be done correctly there.

GuerrillaClock:
These threads have been done to death, seriously. There's no need for them, they don't promote discussion and always end up in flamewars. I find it amazing you had the temerity to actually LINK to some of these threads in your post.

On topic, no. It isn't. That's all there is to it. This article will explain better than I ever could why not, as well as the ins and outs of such bullshit terms as 'casual'.

That is the greatest article I have ever read. Ever.

Flying-Emu:

GuerrillaClock:
These threads have been done to death, seriously. There's no need for them, they don't promote discussion and always end up in flamewars. I find it amazing you had the temerity to actually LINK to some of these threads in your post.

On topic, no. It isn't. That's all there is to it. This article will explain better than I ever could why not, as well as the ins and outs of such bullshit terms as 'casual'.

That is the greatest article I have ever read. Ever.

I agree. I never realized how ingenious Nintendo's business strategy is.

quack35:

Flying-Emu:

GuerrillaClock:
These threads have been done to death, seriously. There's no need for them, they don't promote discussion and always end up in flamewars. I find it amazing you had the temerity to actually LINK to some of these threads in your post.

On topic, no. It isn't. That's all there is to it. This article will explain better than I ever could why not, as well as the ins and outs of such bullshit terms as 'casual'.

That is the greatest article I have ever read. Ever.

I agree. I never realized how ingenious Nintendo's business strategy is.

It's dastardly. Almost evil, in a sense. The worst part is that they're proclaiming their strategy to the world, yet no one listens.

Undone by their own ignorance and greed...

Flying-Emu:

quack35:

Flying-Emu:

GuerrillaClock:
These threads have been done to death, seriously. There's no need for them, they don't promote discussion and always end up in flamewars. I find it amazing you had the temerity to actually LINK to some of these threads in your post.

On topic, no. It isn't. That's all there is to it. This article will explain better than I ever could why not, as well as the ins and outs of such bullshit terms as 'casual'.

That is the greatest article I have ever read. Ever.

I agree. I never realized how ingenious Nintendo's business strategy is.

It's dastardly. Almost evil, in a sense. The worst part is that they're proclaiming their strategy to the world, yet no one listens.

Undone by their own ignorance and greed...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard

Nah they're just stealing everyone's ideas again.

No. Simply No.
Let this be the last time we have to answer a question like this.

No, Microsoft wouldn't abandon hardcore games. Natal is just expanding their product.

BolognaBaloney:
No more natal threads, use the goddam search bar.

calm down, if you knew there were loads of threads about Natal then why did you look at this one?

quack35:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MagnificentBastard

That sight hurts me. It's like looking a dictionary of a different language and being constantly referred to other words in the language that you don't no, repeat ad nauseum.

KSarty:
No. The reason the 360 can still hold the "hardcore" audience is because it still maintains the hardware for the graphics intensive and powerful games that we all love. Nintendo has pushed away not only the "hardcore" gaming audience, but also the developers who make "hardcore" games because of how limited the Wii really is.

Graphics do not make a game "hardcore". In fact, you can have the world's shittiest graphics and still have "hardcore" games. In fact, let me put a stop to this right now:

There is no such thing as hardcore games or consoles. The only ones who can be hardcore are the gamers themselves.

Oh and one more thing kiddies, "hardcore" and "casual" are just buzz words created by the media that actually have way different meanings than you think. So if you think you're hardcore, chances are about 90% you aren't.

megapenguinx:

KSarty:
No. The reason the 360 can still hold the "hardcore" audience is because it still maintains the hardware for the graphics intensive and powerful games that we all love. Nintendo has pushed away not only the "hardcore" gaming audience, but also the developers who make "hardcore" games because of how limited the Wii really is.

Graphics do not make a game "hardcore". In fact, you can have the world's shittiest graphics and still have "hardcore" games. In fact, let me put a stop to this right now:

There is no such thing as hardcore games or consoles. The only ones who can be hardcore are the gamers themselves.

Oh and one more thing kiddies, "hardcore" and "casual" are just buzz words created by the media that actually have way different meanings than you think. So if you think you're hardcore, chances are about 90% you aren't.

Well thank feck I didn't have to say it again, I would have just linked to my rant thread.

Flying-Emu:

GuerrillaClock:
These threads have been done to death, seriously. There's no need for them, they don't promote discussion and always end up in flamewars. I find it amazing you had the temerity to actually LINK to some of these threads in your post.

On topic, no. It isn't. That's all there is to it. This article will explain better than I ever could why not, as well as the ins and outs of such bullshit terms as 'casual'.

That is the greatest article I have ever read. Ever.

Yep. Except no one will read it, and if they do, they will probably still deny it's merit.

Fuck it, I'm doing a thread about it now.

No. It won't now stop being silly and go play some video games.

How do creative control schemes undermine "hardcore" gaming. I bet ten years from now, these same guys are going to be bitching about perfected virtual reality.

Microsoft had "hardcore gaming"?

megapenguinx:

KSarty:
No. The reason the 360 can still hold the "hardcore" audience is because it still maintains the hardware for the graphics intensive and powerful games that we all love. Nintendo has pushed away not only the "hardcore" gaming audience, but also the developers who make "hardcore" games because of how limited the Wii really is.

Graphics do not make a game "hardcore". In fact, you can have the world's shittiest graphics and still have "hardcore" games. In fact, let me put a stop to this right now:

There is no such thing as hardcore games or consoles. The only ones who can be hardcore are the gamers themselves.

Oh and one more thing kiddies, "hardcore" and "casual" are just buzz words created by the media that actually have way different meanings than you think. So if you think you're hardcore, chances are about 90% you aren't.

Why do you think I kept putting hardcore in quotes? I think it is a stupid term too, but you have to at least admit that the Wii and PS3/360 have different target audiences.

Probably not. The original Xbox started off as "the hardcore" console. Today, that role has been taken by the PS3, but it would still be completely idiotic for Microsoft to abandon hardcore gaming altogether.

It's to make money... Really that's about it, Why do people blow these things out of proportion M$ is a huge company, so this only means stupid cut time events and such for normal games. At least that's how I see it. Then again they "might" make it super important in most things but I doubt it.

I don't even know what your even talking about =D
but I do think that people who love the 360 and shun the wii would go with the 360 if they where turning to casual gaming like the wii.
people hate the wii I think just because it doesn't have a "normal" controller.

that and cause game developers are TOO concentrated on 360 and PS3.