AO and DLC

So I am sure we are all aware by now that most big stores refuse to sell AO games. So companies push the line without ever crossing into that territory. What about digital distrubution? I caught a commercial last night about GTA 4 Ballad of Gay Tony and the rating was RP. Sure they have to assign it a letter eventually but is there any reason they couldn't go AO with it (as long as they never plan on slapping it on a disc)? Would Wal-Mart quit selling consoles and games if some DLC was rated AO? What are your thoughts?

Why do you think the Ballard of Gay Tony should get an AO rating? There's not going to be any actual gay sex in it (or at least not visceral and interactive) and apart from explicit sex acts the only thing to make games AO is very gratuitous violence, like the inventive tourture kills in The Punisher (which had to be 'toned down' and shown in black & white to lower the rating from AO to M).

Besides it a moot point as Microsoft (and Sony for that matter) won't allow any AO content to be released on their console, and considering that Microsoft funded the DLC I can't imagine that Rockstar would needlessly bite the hand that feed them.

Hypothetically, even if Microsoft and Sony suddenly allowed AO games and content to be made for their consoles, Walmart wouldn't stop selling the actual consoles because something unsavoury could potentially be done with them... after all they sell guns and ammo, and a lot worse things can be done with those than show a few digitised tits.

Less sensationally, Walmart also still sell TV's, DVD players and computers, despite all the porn available for those products.

squid5580:
So I am sure we are all aware by now that most big stores in America refuse to sell AO games...

Other countries do not have this ridiculous problem.

TLAD had a full blown cock in it and that wasn't AO. I can't see BOGT having anything much worse.

Nimbus:

squid5580:
So I am sure we are all aware by now that most big stores in America refuse to sell AO games...

Other countries do not have this ridiculous problem.

AO fills the same role as refused classification type tings, without breaking our laws, so yes, they do you countryist.

HG131:

Nimbus:

squid5580:
So I am sure we are all aware by now that most big stores in America refuse to sell AO games...

Other countries do not have this ridiculous problem.

AO fills the same role as refused classification type tings, without breaking our laws, so yes, they do you countryist.

No not really. For you, AO means only for people aged 18 or older. For the rest of us, we have the 18+ rating, which fulfills exactly the same role, except shops will carry such games.

Jamash:
Why do you think the Ballard of Gay Tony should get an AO rating? There's not going to be any actual gay sex in it (or at least not visceral and interactive) and apart from explicit sex acts the only thing to make games AO is very gratuitous violence, like the inventive tourture kills in The Punisher (which had to be 'toned down' and shown in black & white to lower the rating from AO to M).

Besides it a moot point as Microsoft (and Sony for that matter) won't allow any AO content to be released on their console, and considering that Microsoft funded the DLC I can't imagine that Rockstar would needlessly bite the hand that feed them.

Hypothetically, even if Microsoft and Sony suddenly allowed AO games and content to be made for their consoles, Walmart wouldn't stop selling the actual consoles because something unsavoury could potentially be done with them... after all they sell guns and ammo, and a lot worse things can be done with those than show a few digitised tits.

Less sensationally, Walmart also still sell TV's, DVD players and computers, despite all the porn available for those products.

OK first off the question was never about specifically BOGT but of DLC in general. If you ask me if I think BOGT will deserve the M rating it will get then the answer is yes. Do I think it should be higher? No because the version that will evetually come is going to be watered down just enough to stay on the right side of the line. No if you asked me if Iwanted it to be higher I would answer Yes. And this is why.

The big debate seems to be little Jimmy goes into Gamestop or a reasonable facimile and the big bad man behind the counter gives him a copy of GTA 4 and a fully loaded AK 47 and sends him on his way. Parents seem to be at a loss to stop this since every time they enter the store they suffer a stroke and end up being confused by a simple letter on the left hand side of the box. I firmly believe this is caused by some sort of sensory overload. So when it comes to DLC there is no store or employee or big shelves full of confusing boxes. The choice rests soley in the living room.So no one should be able to say much if AO content were to come to the arcades of this gen's consoles.

... Why has no one thought of this before? Make generic game, get M rating. Release all the kick ass stuff on free DLC... I love it!

I dunno why The Ballad of Gay Tony would get an AO rating when it's predecessor, the Lost and the Damned, got away with full frontal nudity (unfortunately, it was full frontal male nudity.) So unless Gay Tony was just the beginning of ROCKSTAR's infatuation with male genitalia; I doubt it will get anything more than an M.

I'm not 100% on this, but I thought that when a game is released with DLC, the ESRB states that the DLC's rating needs to either match or be below the initial games rating (so M, T, or E for GTA).

tippy2k2:
I'm not 100% on this, but I thought that when a game is released with DLC, the ESRB states that the DLC's rating needs to either match or be below the initial games rating (so M, T, or E for GTA).

That would make a lot of sense. There's nothing stopping anyone from downloading whatever they want, so there would have to be a line.

On the original topic, the AO rating is just taboo (if that's the word). Nobody wants that rating, though the description doesn't really make a strong separation from the M rating, does it? Anyway, we can try to stop kids from buying games they're too young for, but there's really no way to outright refuse someone a download, is there? It might bring up an issue of arbitrary refusals. Wal-Mart probably won't stop selling games outright, but they might pull offending games with AO DLC (if any such thing ever came out) in order to avoid backlash from the media and "moral guardians."

tippy2k2:
I'm not 100% on this, but I thought that when a game is released with DLC, the ESRB states that the DLC's rating needs to either match or be below the initial games rating (so M, T, or E for GTA).

As much sense as that would make, it isn't the case. IIRC Oblivion on the 360 kept it's T rating, but Shivering Isles was M across the board.

Nimbus:

HG131:

Nimbus:

squid5580:
So I am sure we are all aware by now that most big stores in America refuse to sell AO games...

Other countries do not have this ridiculous problem.

AO fills the same role as refused classification type tings, without breaking our laws, so yes, they do you countryist.

No not really. For you, AO means only for people aged 18 or older. For the rest of us, we have the 18+ rating, which fulfills exactly the same role, except shops will carry such games.

As for AO being the same as the 18+ rating, that's not strictly accurate. M or Mature is the equivalent to 18+. AO rated games are a separate category all together, above M/18+. The equivalent in films is the X rating, traditionally restricted to pornography. In the case of X rated films, the age prereq is 21, not 18. There's also NC17, which lands someplace between R and X and to my knowledge is never actually used.

For fun, I actually looked into this and found this statement from Patricia Vance (ESRB president)

"If a game submits a game to us and it gets a teen rating and then wants to add downloadable content to that game in the future, which is obviously happening a lot today, they have to keep the content in the downloadable product consistent with the core rating. It can't go out of bounds," said Vance.

SOURCE:
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/04/16/esrb-downloadable-content-must-maintain-original-rating-cant-go-out-of-bounds/

I wanted to get this from ESRB's website, but I keep getting a PAGE LOAD error.

With that as well, Oblivion did not keep its TEEN Rating. Ironically I just bought the game yesterday and it's rated M. I also saw numerous sites talking about it (no news sites, so no "reliable" sources, but if you REALLY want proof it's listed on retailer sites as M)

tippy2k2:
For fun, I actually looked into this and found this statement from Patricia Vance (ESRB president)

"If a game submits a game to us and it gets a teen rating and then wants to add downloadable content to that game in the future, which is obviously happening a lot today, they have to keep the content in the downloadable product consistent with the core rating. It can't go out of bounds," said Vance.

SOURCE:
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/04/16/esrb-downloadable-content-must-maintain-original-rating-cant-go-out-of-bounds/

I wanted to get this from ESRB's website, but I keep getting a PAGE LOAD error.

With that as well, Oblivion did not keep its TEEN Rating. Ironically I just bought the game yesterday and it's rated M. I also saw numerous sites talking about it (no news sites, so no "reliable" sources, but if you REALLY want proof it's listed on retailer sites as M)

Bah MS has a nasty habit of changing those kinds of policies whenever they feel like. Usually depends on the popularity of the game. When it comes to DLC and achievements they have specific rules in place. Rules which are broken whenever a dev comes out with what looks like it will be a popular game then they can do whatever the hell they want. Orange Box with its 99 achs (the max is 80) Halo 3 with all the DLC achs (went well over thier quarterly limit). Fable 2 requiring you to play thae game on thier site and the Pub Games to get all the items needed for achs. Arcade games breaking the size limit. Them letting a game like Oblivion slide with the DLC is not shocking in the least.

 

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