Zetona:
Oh, how petty of all you PC gamers. You've had it too good for too long.

Or, more logically, removing dedicated servers might be some sort of cost-cutting measure. After all, this is an economic recession, and Activision/Infinity Ward are businesses as surely as PC gamers are not.

There are three things wrong with that statement.

Try and work them out for yourself, maybe you'll actually use your brain for once.

Well, I suppose you don't need to. Someone as hilarious doesn't need to be clever.

Imperator_DK:
Why boycot something which will almost certainly be an excellent game, just because it doesn't give you MORE options than the other (i.e console) platforms? I can understand if someone who wanted it mostly for clan matches and modding is gonna drop it now, but a boycot?

Well the PC has always has those options taking away from one group so it is on par as the others is unfair why not raise the standard with others?

Well I wasn't going to get it anyway. Now I have even more reason not to.

sethzard:
Everyone who boycotts grow up, just because someone does something that you don't approve of doesn't mean you have to throw your toys out the pram, it's not that big a deal, if it was major like no pc game/pc multi player at-all then you should boycott it, but this kind of thing shouldn't mean that much. and if you don't like it, stick to cod 4 for that kind of thing.

It means A LOT because it's what makes PC gaming better then console gaming. Servers lists and MODS are fucking awesome.

They can still have matchmaking but make it an option. A simple button on the menu that let's you play a matchmaking game instead of a proper dedicated server game. I'd have nothing against that.

This is killing the whole thing about PC gaming that makes it so great.

Very few people have brought up that PC gamers pirate at an extraordinary rate. Part of their motivation for this change is to combat pirates. They also want to combat cheaters/hackers. Finally, they think that they game they design is better for all audiences than the modified "no fragx3, last stand, juggernaut, etc" model that random people employ.

Stop cheating and stop pirating and maybe this wouldn't happen.

Eh,it's not too bad.

I will be shooting people ether way(If I buy it,depending on the reviews)

Also,we aren't the most powerful people.

Without PC game developers,we wouldn't exist.

Would've thought the PC community had learned after how the PC base was treated with the jump from CoD 2 to 3. Activision/IW etc...are only interested in money and bringing more opportunities for making money to themselves. The obvious solution is, don't buy into their products. Stop buying MW games. Period. I've yet to play MW1, I'll never play MW2, and any further iteration of said franchise can go get fucked.

[V.2]:

irishstormtrooper:
Really? Really? That's what you're complaining about? If it matters so much to you, don't get the game and play the Half-Life mods, but trying to start a boycott that will do absolutely nothing is a waste of your time and ours.

Hahaha, if it's a waste of you time then just don't read/reply

no, because this is the internet! Lets boycott V.2 for attempting to boycott MW2! comong guise! all we need is slightly less than ten thousand signatures and he wont be able to boycott it!

now you see how stupid it is to try to boycott something for trivial reasons.

last I checked IW knows whats going on behind their doors, and yes as other people stated, it could be a recession issue.

I'm sure they'll get over it, I mean console gamers get along just fine without

Im getting it for PS3 so I don't really care, but I can see how this could be really annoying

I was already refusing to buy it because of the 60$ price tag for the normal edition on the PC, this just gives me yet another good reason to pass over it. It is a shame since I was looking forward to it. I really enjoyed the first MW game. However, on the plus side there is plenty of other great games coming out this year to keep me busy for a long time.

Meh. Activision doesn't give two craps. For every one person not going to buy MW2, 30 more will.

I preordered it almost the same day it was possible but now I canceled the order and I will go on a fishing trip in the Pirate Bay on november 10th.

vanguard_anon:
Very few people have brought up that PC gamers pirate at an extraordinary rate. Part of their motivation for this change is to combat pirates. They also want to combat cheaters/hackers. Finally, they think that they game they design is better for all audiences than the modified "no fragx3, last stand, juggernaut, etc" model that random people employ.

Stop cheating and stop pirating and maybe this wouldn't happen.

Neither of those problems are even vaguely dealt with. VAC and Punkbuster are not entirely effective and having active admins on servers is useful for IMMEDIATE banning of hackers once they are obvious and/or proven via videos and images to be hacking.

Most PC gamers don't cheat. I certainly don't need the use of 3rd part hacks to enjoy my games nor would I ever use them. A lot of people who already PREORDERD the game have been cancelling their preorders en mass so this is obviously more than just pirates, and there aren't a lot of pirate friendly servers for games either, and I've never had an interest in them to look them up either. CoD4 sold millions of copies and I have no doubt IW expects(ed) millions more copies of MW2 to be sold which is more than most games have ever sold regardless of piracy. Many pirated versions of games won't work with the regular multiplayer servers either afaik.

As for the "no fragx3, last stand, juggernaut, etc" I fail to see how that will change because of a new system, it might be reduced but there will be some combination to get an advantage, which is the entire reason they added perks to the game.

Dys:

cainx10a:

Zetona:
Oh, how petty of all you PC gamers. You've had it too good for too long.

Or, more logically, removing dedicated servers might be some sort of cost-cutting measure. After all, this is an economic recession, and Activision/Infinity Ward are businesses as surely as PC gamers are not.

You do know that's it's not IW/Activision who keeps the server running.
You do know that servers can cost from $50 to $100 per month to keep them running.

Bolded Part: Is that jealousy? Lol.

$50-$100 per month? Seriously? Do you mean every single server operating worldwide?. Dedicated servers cost in the cents per year for large scale companies to run, even in Australia (the land of terrible ISPs, poor connections and bloated hardware costs) it is far less than $50 a month to host a single server through an ISP. Ultimately I'm agreeing with your point, that servers cost dick all to host and it isn't a cost activision are taken for anyway, but it re-emphasizing how unbeleivably cheap it is to run a dedicated server.

It doesn't matter whether people think a boycott or not will make any difference, too much has been done too wrong with this title, and a significant portion of the market will not buy this game on PC because of it (whether they simply move onto another platform or skip the game altogether is another thought). I am not buying it, I have bought every PC call of duty except for 5 (I buy them for the multiplayer). This is not a rare train of thought and activision are aware that a huge portion of the PC gaming community will feel similarly, ultimately it's their call, if they don't want my support that's their decision...The quality of call of duty games has been rapidly decreasing since 2, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make anywhere near what they expect too off of mw2. I also wouldn't care if they made double.

Aye, I may be wrong about the actual pricing, but I do remember that 64 players BF2 server were quite costly to rent, as you might notice I am mainly talking about how much players have to ditch out of their pockets to rent servers, not how much the actual service providers will spend to keep these servers running.

Steelfists:

Zetona:
Oh, how petty of all you PC gamers. You've had it too good for too long.

Or, more logically, removing dedicated servers might be some sort of cost-cutting measure. After all, this is an economic recession, and Activision/Infinity Ward are businesses as surely as PC gamers are not.

There are three things wrong with that statement.

Try and work them out for yourself, maybe you'll actually use your brain for once.

Well, I suppose you don't need to. Someone as hilarious doesn't need to be clever.

I wasn't sure of the definition of "dedicated servers" when I wrote the original post, which was very stupid of me. I caught a lot of flak for that.

Still, the only reason I can think of for removing dedicated servers is some way to cut costs. Presumably dedicated servers require some programming that doesn't need to be done now. And having every version of MW2 be as identical as possible may save more money in future patches or something like that.

Anyhow, I apologize for my original post. It was rather dumb of me. (Now I have to say similar to the other people I pissed off.)

theres alot of nerd rage here

is the PC gaming community what you would consider a force?
its a group maybe

but hardly unified enough to be a force

I doubt this is a cost-cutting measure or 'recession issue,' as some people have put it. Dedicated servers are probably the cheapest way to run multiplayer, as IW wouldn't have to run servers itself and could probably recycle 95% of the code for the server browser from CoD:MW. It'd make more sense as an antipiracy measure, which could make a workaround necessary for pirates to play online.

vanguard_anon:
Very few people have brought up that PC gamers pirate at an extraordinary rate. Part of their motivation for this change is to combat pirates. They also want to combat cheaters/hackers. Finally, they think that they game they design is better for all audiences than the modified "no fragx3, last stand, juggernaut, etc" model that random people employ.

Stop cheating and stop pirating and maybe this wouldn't happen.

Unfortunately, as with many previous antipiracy measures, this weighs the heaviest on gamers who don't pirate the game. If a workaround/hack is created that allows dedicated servers to be used, pirates will be the ones who get to enjoy that feature, and not the customers who cared enough to shell out for the game.

Well, I for one am pissed that they took out dedicated Servers and they shafted the mod community...I was just going to rent it on the console anyway.

From my understanding, there wont be coop in it, atleast from wha i read...so to be honest im tired of deathmatch an prolly wont be gettin it anyways, so i support ya boycott!

I'll still get it. I really don't care. Besides, this is doomed to failure.

You have my support, I might have posted in htis thread before, I dunno =p. But noe I am definatly not getting MW2.

Wow I'm sure IW is really going to care, I mean they definatly aren't going to get more game sales that any other game ever.

Erm, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the whole idea to make the game more accessible to everyone? Without Modding, while, yes, you remove that chunk of the community, you also standardise things so everyone can play everyone else without the need of downloading this, that and t'other.

While it means the PC and console versions work in near identical ways, isn't this a good thing? My clan on 360 never has a problem getting together and gaming, private or other wise. We have problems with Game Battles and posting ladder results, but thats more to do with the way the site works than anything to do with what we are playing the game on.

I am boycotting Activision for suing Double Fine.

Well I was going to buy the original but I can live with pirate version. It's their loss, not mine. And I'm sure hackers will find a way to crack the game so multiplayer will be possible on some smaller networks. Just another reason to pirate it.

I don't want to give the wrong impression, piracy is bad. But what is a better way of saying "screw you" to the developer? Worked well with spore.

Why not petition? Boycott's don't work because no one sticks to them

Here's the petition link for anyone who hasn't signed already: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?dedis4mw&1

Even if you don't plan to play online (I don't particularly) I'd sign anyway. PC gamers aren't console gamers, so we shouldn't be treated like them. It's a small matter but it's a much smaller thing to sign the petition and have the chance to actually be listened to.

I can safely say that Activison have killed what interest I did have in this game for the time being. Eventually I'll get it, but probably second hand, as to avoid letting Activisons shitting on the customers (especially in the UK, it seems) profitting them

I'll be getting MW2 for the 360, so it doesn't really bother me too much. As I used to play online on my PC, it's not like I'm ignorant to the inclusion of stuff like servers lists. The lack of mod support may seem a bit more of a heavy blow, but on the other hand, would you really miss it if it wasn't there?

Personally, I've very rarely dabbled in playing mods but say for example, if it hadn't been possible for people to mod Unreal Tournament, I wouldn't have missed the nonexistent state of ChaosUT, as much as I enjoyed playing it.

I managed to make the transition to playing games online solely on console easily enough. The only thing I'd be miffed about is if they decided not to include matchmaking, meaning you could only get in a game on the odd ocassion you actually have enough friends online to play the game (mentioning no examples).

But anyway, a general feeling of "meh" goes in the direction of another gaming boycott. Do you think it's too late for me to boycott Assassins Creed 2 for not directly following on the exploits of Altair like I thought it would? Maybe they'll completely rebuild every aspect of the game for me in the space of a month...

I wasn't planning to buy it anyway because I've hated every Call of Duty after CoD2. CoD3 was a crappy console exclusive, then CoD4 got raped by new developers and CoDWaW and MW2 seem to be only too happy to continue their tradition.

I saw this among other terrible decisions coming the minute I saw CoD:WaW multiplayer with German soldiers starting off with American guns. Or for that matter, the complete absence of Britain from the SP campaign.

Whats with all the boycotting? I knew after L4D2 boycott got started that people would join in on the band wagon....

Kalezian:

[V.2]:

irishstormtrooper:
Really? Really? That's what you're complaining about? If it matters so much to you, don't get the game and play the Half-Life mods, but trying to start a boycott that will do absolutely nothing is a waste of your time and ours.

Hahaha, if it's a waste of you time then just don't read/reply

no, because this is the internet! Lets boycott V.2 for attempting to boycott MW2! comong guise! all we need is slightly less than ten thousand signatures and he wont be able to boycott it!

now you see how stupid it is to try to boycott something for trivial reasons.

last I checked IW knows whats going on behind their doors, and yes as other people stated, it could be a recession issue.

Console kiddies will never understand what it means to be involved in a dedicated server community. Involved in clans, competitive matches, enjoying custom content. Maybe that's why they're all bitter racists and level exploiters.

blankgabriel:

sturryz:
I didn't see a SINGLE aspect of Modern Warfare 1 that would keep my interest beyond console life.

1. Mods
2. Custom Servers
3. Familiar players in servers
None of that appeals to you?

All 3 of those things are all in different games.

Here, maybe this article will instill some understanding in the callous and ignorant hearts of the console players:

By Tim Edwards

20-Oct-2009

The news that Modern Warfare 2 will not include code for dedicated multiplayer servers, instead relying on a yet to be revealed, peer-to-peer matchmaking service called IW.net, hasn't gone down well. At the last glance, 90,000 gamers had signed a petition asking for dedicated server support to be reinstated. Those gamers are right. I've signed the same petition, and I think you should, too. Here's why.

A dedicated server is a PC usually held within a bank of computers belonging to a private company or the game's own publisher. Dedicated server hosts have been part of PC gaming for decades; I think you can attribute some of the rise of multiplayer games like Counter-Strike and Call of Duty directly to their work.

Why?

1) Dedicated server hosts are judged by their reliability. If a server crashes, or an internet connection goes down, the gamers paying to host the game will complain, and they'll start to move elsewhere. This economic motivation forces server hosts to constantly improve their hardware, their internet connection, and their management tools. Compare that to the peer-to-peer networking that Infinity Ward developers are proposing, where the quality of the game will be entirely dependant on the gamer's own home web connection.

2) Dedicated servers are fair. Want to know why that player always seems to get the drop on you when you're playing Call of Duty on Xbox 360? It might be because he's the host of the game. In combat, data has to be bounced from his console, to yours, and back again, for you to impact on the game. Meanwhile, he doesn't have to wait on the round trip - he can fire as soon as he's ready. Hosts always have an advantage in peer-to-peer networked games.

3) Dedicated servers are adaptable. We don't know the details of what InfinityWard.net will offer, but there's little chance that the tickbox customisation options usually available to players in peer-to-peer matchmaking setups can match the level of control dedicated servers offer. That can include, but not be limited to: competitive players who run their own specific rulesets, to the spectator mode mods, to machinima friendly sets, to the expanded player counts, to the custom maps. That evolution of content is key to extending a PC game's lifespan, and improving that game. Enabling the community to host the mods and maps they choose is a good thing. Entire game development businesses have been built from gamers hosting dedicated servers for popular, low key games. Guys like Splash Damage (Enemy Territory, Brink), Tripwire Interactive (Red Orchestra, Killing Floor) simply wouldn't be around were it not for gamers putting up their own cash to pay for dedicated servers.

4) Dedicated servers create community. Don't think of them as a piece of hardware. Think of them as a place. PC Gamer hosts servers for Team Fortress 2, Killing Floor, and yes, Modern Warfare. We have plenty of regulars who are looking forward to playing Modern Warfare 2 together. If we had dedicated server code, we would definitely host our own place - it's good for our readers, and it's good to create magazine loyalty. Every month, we'll join the servers to play with them. We don't have to swap friends contacts, or pray that our skill levels will broadly match. We just double click the server, and we're playing together. PC Gamer isn't alone - communities worldwide love hosting servers for their members. Peer-to-peer matchmaking stops that happening. Now, that specific group of fans simply can't play together. Even worse, without dedicated servers we can't enforce our 'don't be a ***' policy. We can't ban racist or homophobic players, nor can we appoint our own moderators to look after our community when we're not online.

Modern Warfare 2 launches in twenty days. It would be nice to see Infinity Ward demonstrate what advantages InfinityWard.net can offer as soon as possible.

-Tim Edwards

Helimocopter:
theres alot of nerd rage here

is the PC gaming community what you would consider a force?
its a group maybe

but hardly unified enough to be a force

It was a big enough force to get Infinity Ward to where they are now. The abandonment has been rather harsh but there will be a few developers (DICE so far) jumping on the 'support the cause' wagon, so some good might come of this.

Ironically over on the Bad Company 2 forums the console players are QQing because they are speculating a watered down PC version.