glad the only pc game i ever pirated was one i owned but lost one of the cds for

i do not pirate, i dont play pc games very much. but i so have a modded xbox origional, cant pirate anything but you can rip games

*Walks into room* Oh crap a P.C. gamer rant.... *Backs out slowly* (LOL)

Quick question:

How did these people pirate Modern Warfare? Cracking a game for its online capabilities is extremely difficult, as most people tend to use the same CD code, and thus cannot play together on a single server.

Btw, I own a legit copy of Modern Warfare. I hardly ever pirate, and if I do it's because I can't find it in a store, or on Steam (as Australia doesn't actually get the full catalogue of Steam games). Or if I've lost one of the CDs for the game I want.

What's the debate here? Apparently I'm not allowed to just type "...so? I'm getting free games!" but that really is the only other side of the argument.

Crystal Cuckoo:
Quick question:
Btw, I own a legit copy of Modern Warfare. I hardly ever pirate, and if I do it's because I can't find it in a store, or on Steam (as Australia doesn't actually get the full catalogue of Steam games).

When I lived out of mainland USA, I pirated like 3 games, but, knowing my part I was playing in the piracey system, I contacted the developers of each and sent them the money for it. They were fine with it, and I felt great for helping.

Some games deserve to be pirated. ie mass effect for pc you can only install it 3 times before having to buy a new copy.

Dommyboy:

StarStruckStrumpets:
What makes you think I care?
I don't play games on the PC anyway.
Nor do I pirate.
You're the PC gamers, you fix the problem.

It certainly isn't my concern.

Why do you post in the thread then if it doesn't concern you? Wasting time or adding to your post count? Your contribution was pointless. If you're going to add something, make it provide a bit better assortment of contribution, please.

The countless piracy upon piracy threads on the Escapist always end the same. There's the majority that hate digital pirates, the majority that raise arguments over how bad it is, and there's the pirates who don't care about what they do.

The title of the thread said that I was to blame.
I'm not going to have my name bashed like that.
He could have said pirates were doing the damage, but no...

OT: Pirates will always find a way to pirate. They are a cunning people. There won't be any true way to stop them until the government develop something that breaks their PC completely.

To present a counter-argument to the OP, the piracy isn't the problem, it's the falling quality of games. We PC gamers are used to depth, we're used to interesting games, and now, with developers trying to develop for PC and the consoles at the same time, they're just using piracy as an excuse for making shallow garbage.

Now, before anyone jumps all over me, I'm not saying I'm right. It's just a different viewpoint.

I don't download or copy games i buy my games for my xbox 360 and computer but still i'm not happy to sometimes pay 700 crowns for um... borderlands or... MW2 is probably expencive now and ofc brütal legend are expencive new games but that's mabey why ppl download and copy they have no money i'm not sure but 700 crowns is around 75-80 dollar but i'm not good on economy so don't bust my balls for saying rong about how much crowns is one dollar

i would never pirate games unless if it was the best game in the world and my country wouldnt let us have it. And consoles and other gaming engines will not kill the pc just because many pcs are easyer to use for fpses which is a vast number of games. Also to the modding system...well i have no comment, exept for that if you enjoyed the game and you have support from many people the developers will send out some dlc to wet your whistle. Developers want people to want more from games (as in money) so when a mass amount of people want conntent for a game they will (usally) deliver pretty well.

P.S sorry if this has little or nothing to do with the subject matter. I couldn't really see what that was besides pirating which is a very bad crime. Right up there with mass murderers and meth. Also i dont see why pirating is so bad. Who cares if some people get their games a mounth earlyer, all the people that pirate things are just lazy not criminal, but should be thrown in jial for around 8 mins and pay a bail of double the cost of the thing they pirated

Quite frankly, I am sick and tired of people thinking it's easier to pirate PC games, "but in general it is much more difficult and time consuming to open up your box, soldering shit and adding modchips." - you don't do it yourself, you go to a store, pay approximately as much as you'd pay for an expensive game, come back two days later, PRESTO, you can play any console game, as for "kissing goodbye online gaming" if you pirate on a console, it's just as true for a cracked PC game, in most cases you need the original to play online.I agree with traukanshaku,the issue of "pirating being greater on the PC" is, was, and forever will be nothing more than a shallow excuse.

traukanshaku:
To present a counter-argument to the OP, the piracy isn't the problem, it's the falling quality of games. We PC gamers are used to depth, we're used to interesting games, and now, with developers trying to develop for PC and the consoles at the same time, they're just using piracy as an excuse for making shallow garbage.

Now, before anyone jumps all over me, I'm not saying I'm right. It's just a different viewpoint.

This is a strained viewpoint,as steam and several companies are constantly making 5 or 6 high love games a year,and thousands of shittys.This makes you want to buy them all to find out,other than wait 6 months for the flame to stop so you may pick. Eventually it leads to pirating.The player may buy a few games,but will pirate 50 times that.

so in reality the 2 are linked,but Mostly the worlds cheap-asses.

I hate strike through because people can still ready what you say.

Some people pirate games to try them out before buying. Something more manufacturers could avoid by releasing more demos.

TylerC:
Yes, YOU. If you are one of the vast majority of people one of the many of us (there better?), who pirate copies of video games, you are causing being a major contributor to a huge problem.

People complain that their beloved PC games are being cut from development or are losing support, but companies can't keep making games or providing support because it costs money, yeah all of your hard earned money for buying a game isn't going to the publisher. The developer needs money for their own salaries and for development and support of their game and future games. Pirating is like going to a game store and just stealing a copy. Think, would you really go to say Best Buy, and just grab a couple of games and walk out? Using CoD4 as an example, approximately 60%* of players online were using pirated games, and the removal of dedicated servers could also be part of the of control piracy.

If Call of Duty: Modern Warfare was released as a PC exclusive, I'm sure you would have seen no dedicated servers, and no MW2. These games are surviving on console sales, and its no surprise that games like EA's extremely popular Madden NFL*** games are being dropped...it's just not worth the time, effort and money to make a free game.

This isn't happening as bad with consoles because it is so hard to mod your console, and if you go online, you can say goodbye to your PSN, or XBL account.Edit: Alright, yes, you can pirate console games, and yes, MW2 was leaked for the 360**, but like I said before it is MUCH harder to play cracked games on consoles. I've heard of ways you can use GameShark or Action Replay on the PS2, or playing leaked/homebrew games on the Wii, but in general it is much more difficult and time consuming to open up your box, soldering shit and adding modchips.

So next time you complain about the dying art of PC gaming, think, what can I do to prevent this?

Feel free to argue your point against me, or provide your thoughts.

Please try to keep your "Why should I care," or "I don't play PC games" comments out of this thread.

thest3alth:

StarStruckStrumpets:
What makes you think I care?

What makes you think anyone asked [you] to care?

Edited and being edited.

*For those who were wondering, I got the 60% figure here in the Fourth paragraph, second sentence.
**Ahem
***A lot of you are saying that it's no surprise Madden was dropped from the PC, and that they don't need a new version every year, but Madden sells millions of copies every year so their is obviously some change (note: Madden 2010 sales did drop significantly from 09).

Games are expensive, if I couldn't get them for free, who knows if I'd get them at all? Sure, if I feel a game has made sufficient effort I will do my best to afford the purchase, other then that, well... I'm not really cutting their sales, I'm just increasing their usage.

AAArrrrrr Ahoy me Mateys,

'Tis seemin like an awful hassle to be buyin and all installin all the fancy gear and technomoligical gizmos just to be piratin yar games

Sounds to me loike twould be cheaper just to buy the damn thing.

Now swab my poop deck and find me some booty

Sure, I pirate games.

For N64 and older.
So, my impact on this is little to none.

The few PC games I own, I've bought new and off some store shelf.

You want someone to blame for piracy? Blame the interwebz.
If you upload it, they will come.

PC gaming put me through the ringer. It deserves whatever it gets.

TylerC:

Furburt:
rom experience, getting a cracked copy of a game to work online is incredibly difficult.

And yet, more than half of the people online in CoD4 were using pirated copies.

owned

I'd hate to see PC gaming die, its very diffrent to the consoles and extremely easy to pirate. But there really isnt much the developers can do to stop them.

KingTiger:
I actively pirate and distribute free games to my friends. Why? because they are too pour to afford it! set the prices at decent levels and I wouldnt.

If someone from my country wanted to buy an original game, he must go without paying his phone or electricity bills, because thats how much it costs (100$), whenever I meet up with friend I give them up to 17 pirated games free just to spite capitalist eggheads who act like vampires.

a 300$ windows 7 is almost 1/3 or 1/4 of a salary here(An Arabian country)! how can people afford it without starving to death? the answer is piracy. When developers become more sane and set reasonable prices then I would stop pirating(Example Valve, I never pirate them as they are concerned with the gamers, they just offered Team fortress 2 for 2.5 $ in holloween)

I am a proud pirate just to piss off blood sucking capitalists.

All right comrade, if you want games but don't want to pay ANYTHING for them, how the hell are these so called "blood sucking capitalists" going to make any further great games?

Now I'm not a dick about socialism, it can get a lot of shit done, but anti-capitalism =/= socialism.

In this massive process of free dissemination of games why don't you are least ask your patrons to pay what they can? I used to live in Abu Dhabi, I know for millions of people, especially migrant Pakistani workers, they live on incredibly low salaries for the cost of living so I can empathise with this but if they ARE starving to death why are they spending their TIME on video games? Hell, the hardware alone costs a bundle.

Your argument seems far too convenient and contrived, it is certainly unsustainable.

And where is your respect for the rule of law?

mikecoulter:
Some people pirate games to try them out before buying. Something more manufacturers could avoid by releasing more demos.

And risk PC gamers seeing how bad the game is before they shell out huge amounts of money for it? I think not! They should buy our product at full price sight unseen!

As I recall right before the release of Spore there were people everywhere calling for boycott and piracy of the game because the DRM only lets you install the game five times or something before it's useless; turning the game essentially into a rental. I also recall boasting from EA at the time saying the game was un-piratable because of the counter-measures they added.

In reality it was just UN-PLAYABLE for many people who actually BOUGHT the game while the pirates who decided the DRM was awful to start with could play it for free just slightly after the release date.

My point is that when EA tightened it's restrictions on how a lawful gamer can use her or his game it provoked an equal reaction in people who were unwilling to pay for a game under those new terms. EA also ended up screwing many of the paying customers in the process, people who will be more unwilling to trust their products in the future.

I didn't have any DRM issues with Spore when I bought it. I was, however, a victim of disappointment and less likely to buy any more products that were rushed into mediocre lifelessness by EA.

I've said it before, and I say it again. Me downloading a game for free does not in any way mean I would be willing to pay even a penny for it. For the most part I wouldn't. Which means that it's not a question of me buying the game or me downloading the game, it's a question of me downloading the game or simply not having anything to do with the game at all.

Since they would under no circumstances ever get their hands on my money if I didn't download games, software piracy represents an improvement for their market. Because there's the off chance that I will like the game I pirated so much that I'll want a nice shiny physical copy gleaming on my shelf. It's happened multiple times. Hearts of Iron II is one example, there is no way in hell I would have ever bought that game... If I hadn't played it and grown to love it first.

Yes, yes, it's morally questionable and all that, sure. But here's the thing. Morals are not a set value, morals are variable. They differ from person to person. And no matter how you twist and turn things, software piracy does not equal and can never equal stealing. Since they never had my money in the first place.

That's seriously like saying you're killing my private economy, because I think you should give me your car... But you're not going to. Therefore, you're stealing it from me. And that sets me back at least €1000. You thief.

I don't think I have pirated a game since the original Starcraft. Since then, I have had employment (and funnily enough, worked in a game store for 5 years) and I have always tried to pay for games, even if it means waiting for a game to drop in price before I pick it up.

BUT, on the otherhand, I do have friends that do pirate games. Not just PC games, but also console games - 360/DS/PSP. One mate just in the last week got Borderlands, Brutal legend and Dragon Age via torrents. I was quite surprised that this friend who didn't pay for Borderlands was still able to join my multiplayer games.

No point getting into debates about what he's doing either. He doesn't care, and he spends all his social security money on weed.

*edit*
I must add though. Game publishers can do more to combat piracy. I tend to avoid buying games at full price, but on some games it can take a ridiculous amount of time for the price to drop. Take CoD:MW. At one stage, it was still higher priced than the more recent release of CoD:WaW. I bought Modern Warfare for the 360, but wanted it for the PC. I never ended up getting it, but would have if it had been a more attractive price sooner.

I didn't do this, but I can see how someone in my situation could have just justified 'I already bought it on 'X' system, no harm in just DL'ing it again for the PC.

Don't taze me Bro:
...BUT, on the otherhand, I do have friends that do pirate games. Not just PC games, but also console games - 360/DS/PSP. One mate just in the last week got Borderlands, Brutal legend and Dragon Age via torrents. I was quite surprised that this friend who didn't pay for Borderlands was still able to join my multiplayer games...

That's what GearBox gets for using Gamespy.

I have never pirated a PC game.

HotFezz8:

stop and think. the PS3 sells for, what? £300? if you try to get a bling one? second hand ones in my area are £225... the 360 is, well i don't know but i can pick up a second hand mid range one for £75. using this as a comparasion the pc can't compete, a decent games PC costs a limb, a soul, and prefereably a child.

No, they don't. A bottom end PC, to play games on medium or high on, will cost about 400 pounds. How much did the PS3 cost when it first came out? 500, wasn't it?

You want proof of that? Ok.

God knows what the price would be if you got all those components second hand, but I'd be a hell of a lot cheaper, for sure.

All for the price of a launch-price PS3, but with an extra one or two games, and the flexibility of a PC Operating system and the mouse and keyboard interface.

mrtenk:
Have you gone too newegg.com, bought an i7 for $300, a GTX295 for $450, a motherboard for 150, a power supply for 200, a case for 50, and a brand spankin new operating system for an extra 200, and a Hard Drive for 100?? After your done doing that, have you seen the large dent in your wallet?

Have you seen how blindingly excessive that specification is? A core i7 cpu? You don't even need that. I'm playing Crysis on high/medium with 2xAA at 1680x1050 with an AMD Athalon 64 dual core at 3.Ghz. They're very reasonably priced, you can get them for about 30p. And my Graphics card? A HD4850. Those are about, what? 80 pounds now?
And your $200 quoted price for a 'brand spanking new operating system' is also unrealistic. What are you getting? Windows 7 ultimate? You don't need that, get yourself a copy of home premium for about $80 and save yourself some money.

Sure, if you want to stay right on the cutting edge of technology, feel free to do so, but don't tar all the other more reasonable PC gamers with the same brush, thank you very much.

PC Gaming is not that expensive. Sure, initial cost is often more, but not always. When you take into account the fact that PC games are cheaper, the net cost is probably about the same or even less.

I mean, console games are pretty much fixed here to never go below 50 pounds. Say I buy four in a year, that's 200 pounds. That's almost the cost of the whole console, and that's just a small amount of games.

Average PC game is, what? 30? Times that by four and you only get yourself 120 out of pocket. That's a saving of 80. A ps3 80gb costs about 300 pounds now from comet. Add the 80 you lost out on and you can pretty much justify the cost of a top-end graphics card upgrade. That'll keep you going for a good 4 or 5 years, unless some massive technological miracle occurs.

So i´m good because i throw 50 buck a month at Steam.

Deshara:

Kalezian:
~SNIP~ I also find it odd that people think that I actually care. I was simply stating that a majority of the games in that picture also are on the console.

My post wasn't refering to you, it was refering to him.

WickedSkin:

~SNIP SNAP~

Deshara:
He said dying, not dead.

It kind of occurred to me...

Why aren't console gamers pissed off about no mods, custom maps and such? No dedicated servers? You also have to pay MORE money for 1/4 of the product we usually get. Only because you accept the removal of such grand things doesn't mean we have to. Only because you accept being treated like dogs -or more precisely- a pack of lobotomized monkeys, doesn't mean we have to. Seriously they treat you pretty badly and charge you more for a lot less content.

Mods, custom maps, custom models and such are AMAZING things. It's pretty much been the standard of any PC release. It's the way it should be. Developers are also cutting the games down these days and sell parts as "DLC" and people are stupid enough to support this? Seriously they are all bitches. Whatever happened to "more bang for your buck"?

UGC and proper dedicated servers is what makes PC gaming better then console gaming. We'd like to keep the possibility of UGC and we'd love to see console gamers get it to. You'd love it.

Todays gamers are really really weak :/ Either that or apathetic.

I'm consistantly perplexed by this notion that PC gaming is better for mods and console commands. You claim that I will like it better if Consoles allowed mods and dedicated servers while failing to realise that I, along with most of my other gamer friends, have tried our multiplayer games online and have found that the ability to hack a game was, in fact, not a selling point, and instead traded ours in for the console version. Basically, the way we see it, we think it's fair to pay ten extra dollars for the same game if it ensures that there are no crappy dedicated servers that lag and are filled with hacked players.
Me and 4 of my friends bought L4D for the computer, played it, got fed up with the constant presence of Speed/Aim hackers, and decided we prefer our games without dedicated servers, mods or console commands, because if we're going to pay more than 40$ for a game, we want a game that's been built by proffesional game designers, not one that was built by proffesional game designers and then broken by anybody who knows who to hit ~ and copy/paste the aimhack that ruins the point of playing in the first place.

EDIT: tl:dr: I don't want to control my own experience. That's why I play games like Call of Duty and Left 4 Dead. In most games, you have very little control over what you can do, leaving players only the ability to influence the events and to influence other gamer's experiences, and that's a good thing. Give too much control and there's not much fun in playing, but what's worse is making a game in which all control of your experience is given to the people who aren't interested in your experience being enjoyable, which is what all the "benefits" of PC gaming are.

I see you are trying to hide your ignorance by trying to sound fancy. You also missed my point. Well done. The hacking part you just pulled out of your ass. Well done again. Hacking on dedicated servers is NOT common.* I'm now sure you have none or very little experience with PC gaming. Mostly because you are very young.

L4D is, by the way, a terrible example. If you don't know why; I suggest you stop reading now. Then go write a post saying that you are sorry and admit that you don't know what you are talking about.

In case you kept reading anyway and feel that you want something:
Let's say you play CoD4. You are enjoying yourself on a dedicated server and there is never any lag because you know what you are doing. Then after a while you get bored with it. What do you do now? Download some cooler weapon skins and models to replace your old ones, New character skins, and plenty of custom maps. now you go find another dedicated server and play those new maps of yours. TADA! New life to the game! Bored again? Download a multiplayer mod or maybe some cool new SP campaign?

HOW can you not enjoy such things?

That was essentially my original post. I hope it's easier to understand now. Now you can go and learn how mods and all that work in different games. Maybe you'll have a better understanding.

BTW Sorry for not reading through your whole post before I posted. But nothing changed anyway. You ignorance was just made even clearer.

*You rarely find hacking on dedicated servers at all if they use anti-hack systems (which they most often do). Most people just wants to play the game you know.

I completely agree, piracy is bad, but I have a question. Do game developers get a cut of their game's sales or they get money from the retailers buying it from them? If it's the second answer, then piracy doesn't hurt developers all that much.

Is PC gaming really that expensive?

I mean I have my PC, this acts as my gaming machine, my TV, my media centre (DVD's, Music etc) and I do all my Uni work/internet browsing on it.

Where as you have your Xbox 360/PS3, an array of expensive peripherals, more expensive games, an expensive HDTV (or large CRT, which still cost more than my 22" monitor), Xbox Live service, AND you also have your laptop/home PC for internet usage and work.

Add all that up and I'm pretty sure the console gamer is the one with the lighter wallet.

Treblaine:

KingTiger:
I actively pirate and distribute free games to my friends. Why? because they are too pour to afford it! set the prices at decent levels and I wouldnt.

If someone from my country wanted to buy an original game, he must go without paying his phone or electricity bills, because thats how much it costs (100$), whenever I meet up with friend I give them up to 17 pirated games free just to spite capitalist eggheads who act like vampires.

a 300$ windows 7 is almost 1/3 or 1/4 of a salary here(An Arabian country)! how can people afford it without starving to death? the answer is piracy. When developers become more sane and set reasonable prices then I would stop pirating(Example Valve, I never pirate them as they are concerned with the gamers, they just offered Team fortress 2 for 2.5 $ in holloween)

I am a proud pirate just to piss off blood sucking capitalists.

All right comrade, if you want games but don't want to pay ANYTHING for them, how the hell are these so called "blood sucking capitalists" going to make any further great games?

Now I'm not a dick about socialism, it can get a lot of shit done, but anti-capitalism =/= socialism.

In this massive process of free dissemination of games why don't you are least ask your patrons to pay what they can? I used to live in Abu Dhabi, I know for millions of people, especially migrant Pakistani workers, they live on incredibly low salaries for the cost of living so I can empathise with this but if they ARE starving to death why are they spending their TIME on video games? Hell, the hardware alone costs a bundle.

Your argument seems far too convenient and contrived, it is certainly unsustainable.

And where is your respect for the rule of law?

The problem with your argument is that you, like so many people here, fail to realize that game developers don't need money to make games. All the blood-sucking capitalists will stop making games, sure, but you need to open your eyes and realize that they're not the only kids on the block. They're a minority in comparison with the amount of indie developers in the world making great games and releasing them for free.

Said it before, will say it again: Game developers make games because the want to make games, not because they want to be showered in cash.

This isn't just you, either, Treblaine, this is pretty much everyone here.

The only thing piracy will kill is big game companies. People getting games for free can't possibly hurt you when the game is free anyway. And if you want to say that there's not any good or innovative free games, you need to take a look around.

*Sigh*

Grow up, the lot of you.

PC gaming has been "dying" for decades now.

Seriously tons of analysts and different companies have been predicting the decline and death of PC gaming for years upon years and it's still going strong.

vdgmprgrmr:

Treblaine:

KingTiger:
I actively pirate and distribute free games to my friends. Why? because they are too pour to afford it! set the prices at decent levels and I wouldnt.

If someone from my country wanted to buy an original game, he must go without paying his phone or electricity bills, because thats how much it costs (100$), whenever I meet up with friend I give them up to 17 pirated games free just to spite capitalist eggheads who act like vampires.

a 300$ windows 7 is almost 1/3 or 1/4 of a salary here(An Arabian country)! how can people afford it without starving to death? the answer is piracy. When developers become more sane and set reasonable prices then I would stop pirating(Example Valve, I never pirate them as they are concerned with the gamers, they just offered Team fortress 2 for 2.5 $ in holloween)

I am a proud pirate just to piss off blood sucking capitalists.

All right comrade, if you want games but don't want to pay ANYTHING for them, how the hell are these so called "blood sucking capitalists" going to make any further great games?

Now I'm not a dick about socialism, it can get a lot of shit done, but anti-capitalism =/= socialism.

In this massive process of free dissemination of games why don't you are least ask your patrons to pay what they can? I used to live in Abu Dhabi, I know for millions of people, especially migrant Pakistani workers, they live on incredibly low salaries for the cost of living so I can empathise with this but if they ARE starving to death why are they spending their TIME on video games? Hell, the hardware alone costs a bundle.

Your argument seems far too convenient and contrived, it is certainly unsustainable.

And where is your respect for the rule of law?

The problem with your argument is that you, like so many people here, fail to realize that game developers don't need money to make games. All the blood-sucking capitalists will stop making games, sure, but you need to open your eyes and realize that they're not the only kids on the block. They're a minority in comparison with the amount of indie developers in the world making great games and releasing them for free.

Said it before, will say it again: Game developers make games because the want to make games, not because they want to be showered in cash.

This isn't just you, either, Treblaine, this is pretty much everyone here.

The only thing piracy will kill is big game companies. People getting games for free can't possibly hurt you when the game is free anyway. And if you want to say that there's not any good or innovative free games, you need to take a look around.

OK, name me an idie game which is not only better than Call of Duty 4 but matches the scope, quality, production values and polish and most importantly MADE FROM SCRATCH. That means it can't use the game engine made by a "blood sucking capitalist".

And the final caveat is these indie developers did not ever ask for a single penny, not one donation and won't accept any money at all. On top of that the indie developers must not have tried to use their game as a reason to get employment so you can strike them right off the list if they gain any advertising revenue or go on to make a full retail version like Alien Hominid or Garry's Mod.

It must also NOT be a remake (such as Black Mesa Source) as that took the layout and pacing ideas from a "blood sucking capitalist" nor a port.

You are incredibly naive if you think indie developers are going to spend every shred of their waking hour slaving over a game and never get a penny for it... how are THEY going to feed themselves? How are they going to pay for the hardware, equipment, mo-cap, voice actors, advertising, pension funds, insurance, other employees, food, mortgage, their kids, THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.

It's almost as if you read "indie developers" as "work for free" which is a disgusting insult to people who work SO hard just at the hope that they will eventually make it big.

I suppose you're one of "those people" who never once consider donating to indie development projects yet demand they deliver everything. How incredibly selfish.

indie JUST means independent, they want to make a living, pay for their internet connection. Who pays for YOUR internet connection?

Indie developers do what they do it for the passion of it but also hugely for the recognition, most successful indie developers go on to join developers/publishers to fully realise their game vision such as the developers of Narbacular Drop joined Valve to make Portal, same with Team Fortress.

And most indie developers are incredibly dependant on existing game engines such as Source and Id2, etc.

You know how much Braid cost to be developed? $200'000!

You expect this guy to spend one fifth of a million dollars on a game yet he should not get a penny for it? You cold bastard.

I won't pirate Modern Warfare 2, since beyond all the bullshit they have worked hard to make a seemingly great game and I won't give more ammunition to the DRM-assholes to lock it down even more.