I had a friend who was running a racist dwarf in my campaign, but I think he did a fantastic job of keeping character and real world things separated. His dwarf would make disparaging remarks towards all the other characters at various points, but never towards the actual players. Eventually, said character became a half-dragon thanks to a prestige class and his racism kind of dwindled.

To the OP: The guy you describe sounds like a giant dickhead. If a player is making things not fun for another player, things need to be discussed and compromises need to be reached. If nothing works, then someone may end up leaving the game. I think that if someone's character is going to be a misogynist/racist/whatever then they need to discuss this with the other players beforehand, so that things can be dealt with. Playing a douchebag character is way more fun if another character acts as the foil.

The last D&D group I was in had seven people that played themselves in all games. It got boring because they did not do what their characters would do, they would do what they would do in that situation. It got kind of frustrating when you play with people that are characters supposed to be dumb as a post, but over analyze everything.

I had more fun playing with people that mixed it up. When I switched to Deadlands, I made characters that I thought would be interesting. One was a Texas Ranger Dudley Doo right. He would do things without thinking or checking for the results. One time, he gathered up all the able bodied men in a North aligned town, deputized them in the Southern Army, and gave a rousing speech where he told them to gather up as many guns and horses as possible. He was going to scout ahead for the bad guys, and he expected them, with their southern honor, to follow as soon as possible. He rode out of town at a fast gallop and when no one followed him, he justified by saying that they probably did not have enough guns or horses.

I also played a delusional ex soldier that refused to see anything supernatural. He had weird justifications in all situations.

Amnestic:

Abedeus:

Strange Pirate:
Isn't D&D a board game? Lame.....

Vin Diesel played DnD for many, many years. You are not even half as manly as he is. Ergo, your argument is faulty.

Still does afaik. He's a fan of MMOs as well.

Oh yeah, that's true too.

So, anything Vin does is automatically manly and awesome. Always.

D&D Eberron campaign.
I once played a female Sorcerer, dragonmarked of the House of Finding. She was snooty, arrogant, demanding, and easily insulted. Basically considered herself better than the rest of the party because of her marked status. She was also very useless in combat, due to a lack of offensive magic spells and an average Dex score for using her crossbow.

It was a blast to RP, but it never interfered with the game or the other players. In fact, her personality came in handle dealing with city officals. Got us past the city guards just by yelling at the guy for demanding she strip in public, just because the guard asked to see her Dragonmark. I wanted her to get angry anytime someone asked to see it, due to the location it is on her body, even though no one would know where it would have been.

She may have been annoying to the characters, always demanding someone help her or that we go to the best inn in town, but she was just as beneficial to the party as a whole. A troublesome character doesn't have to piss off the players as well as the characters. Though it may have helped that I did pick a Stun spell for her, which completely ruined a DM's battle because his big bad ogre couldn't act most of the time and made it easy on the fighters to kill it.

Amnestic:

Hybrid Sight:

He ended up trying to join the cult and the leader killed him.

Best way to deal with it. Punishing players is as large a part a job (if not more if you listen to Penny Arcade) of a DM as rewarding players.

Don't forget this earlier advice from Tycho.

For the OP, as a player, your options are more limited. I have been in that sort of game before, and if you don't have support from the DM and other players, walking away is your best option. Otherwise, I would try to point out the party-foul and get the group to agree to some ground-rules.

This happens so often! And is always so frustrating. The underlying problem is because of what might be called "PC Glow" - behind another Player Character is a player, and both the DM and other PCs *have* to treat PCs differently because it's a player. You see a benevolent version of this when you invite some random dude you just met into a tavern to join your party for an equal share of the loot. You see a malign version of this when you have to put up with a misogynistic jerk because "that's his character."

The way we handle this in our campaign is that we rule that each player is personally responsible for the deeds of his character, because, after all, he created the character. If someone wants to be a fighter, they create a fighter. So if you create a character who treats people like crap doesn't that mean, after all, you wanted to treat people like crap? So why should you be upset at being ostracized from the group, or killed in play, for wanting to be that way?

Really, it's the only way to handle it, because otherwise "it's my character" can be used to justify all sorts of extreme inter-party sociopathy. People should be told from the outset that it's a team game, and to create characters that can be part of a team.

Ganthrinor:
As a Dungeon Master, I keep a Wiffle Ball Bat handy for irritating and childish players. It's very important to keep IC and OoC relations seperate.

Indeed. I'm a prick to deal with (ic) but can be a fairly nice person (ooc). Unfortunately, my prickish behavior IC has gotten folks to walk away from games thinking that I'm a total ass.

Note: I was the DM at the time.

Well, to be entirely honest I try to avoid criticizing situations like this because it's hard to really say who is at fault in any given situation. It's equally likely that you were being touchy if nobody else seemed to think that it was a big deal at the time, and you were joining an established group even if they had only just hit 2nd level.

By the same token playing quirky characters can be fine, and not all characters need to start out as being best buddies, though they should be able to work together. Being suspicious of the new character in the context of a plot, commeting on someone's spell selection, or coming up with a nickname like "Wolf Witch" can all be valid, and especially
in the case of the latter are pretty much the kinds of things that can happen in a fantasy novel. Had I been RPing over the pet wolf thing in context to the werewolf threat ICly I would have had my druid tell him "and who better and more motivated to deal with werewolves than a wolf friend like me? How much do YOU know about wolves?".

That said not all character personalities work well together. I've found that sometimes trying to play a character full of bravedo (a heroic stereotype) can oftentimes be confused with the player being an arrogant jerk for example. I also had a bad experience in playing a character who (in second edition) was part of the "Epic Hero" kit and had the fatal flaw of hubris... and I played it that way.

When it comes to Paladins, over the years I've been on a number of "kicks" when I've played. Some of them wierder than others. I had my elf phase, my dwarf phase, my human phase when I got tired of demi-human everything, I has a phase when I played lesbians, a phase when I played super strong, super-dumb barbarians, and a phase where I played paladins. I used to PnP RPGs constantly.

Paladins can be greatly varied. Truthfully a lot of Paladins can be egotistical jerks, but the thing to consider is that even when they are they are STILL undisputably a good guy. It can be hard to do in an RPG, but in fantasy novels there have been many characters like that you eventually wind up cheering for, knowing that for all their flaws they are also REALLY heroic and will save the day in the end.

Paladins also more quintesentially simply represent everything that is best about humanity. Being a boy scout can be more fun than many people give it credit for, especially given how for all comments about them being "stereotypical" they haven't been common for years. It's all about shadowy dark heroes, and being a clear cut good guy in a world that insists people don't exist can be quite fun. In such a case your the exact opposite of being a jerk, and tend to actually try and be nice to everyone.

Of course one of the problems with Paladins in RPGs has always been that they require a cooperative GM. Basically if you have a GM that is going to constantly always beat you over the head with being good and turning it into a huge diadvantage, or constantly put you in F@cked up situations to try and cause you to lose your Paladinhood non stop (once in a long while it's okay, but too often and it becomes stupid) such characters aren't all that fun.

Usually being a Paladin-type works best if your creating your character alongside the rest of a group and the GM from the beginning, with everyone knowing what you want to do and work with you. In many groups you just aren't going to get the right vibe like where everyone wants to play a white-knight hating anti-hero who would mess with you constantly. Not all character concepts work well with all groups. Diverse groups are one things, but if you've got a guy creating a Thief and another guy making a warrior with the Thief-Catcher kit, well your asking for trouble, and really if the GM isn't heading that one off to create some party harmony you can probably guess where the game is going. A bit of back and forth between characters is one thing, but being at odds with each other at a fundemental level is something else entirely.

i've had this problem to my solution is only availible for gurps but my character has and ally who believes people act like they want to be treated so i switch the charecter mid game when jackass mcdouchbag pops in and when they ask why i'm being such a dick i use the exact same excuse also he has no idea what property is so i take his/her stuff to :) i have many enemys

I have had a problem very similar to this in a game that I run. It was a last summer and I was trying to run a simple bar fight opening encounter. The basic set up was that the bar was run by a street gang and was being attacked by a rival. In the end the player characters were supposed to team up and go on with the main quest.

However the paladin, who had no stake in the fight, got drunk and decided to attack one of the other player characters, a dwarf rogue and member of the defending gang. He did this not because of the fact that the dwarf was a criminal but because a dwarf. He then starts picking on the player for choosing to play a midget. I warned him that if he continued he would regret it. Of course he ignored me and continued attacking the dwarf. So to show him that I was serious I attacked him as the gang leader. Luckily I rolled a 20 and hit him in the head with three bolts from a repeating crossbow, thus killing him.

He got angry and threatened to leave the game. Normally I wouldn't have a problem with it but I was short on players last summer. So I devised a grueling punishment where he would single handedly have to fight in a tournament of champions held by the Raven Queen. He realized that one of the other PC's worshiped the Raven Queen and attempted to rape her in order to make the other player angry. This was the final straw so as has patron deity Bahamut, I stripped him of his status as a paladin and banished him to the nine hells.

Therumancer:
Well, to be entirely honest I try to avoid criticizing situations like this because it's hard to really say who is at fault in any given situation. It's equally likely that you were being touchy if nobody else seemed to think that it was a big deal at the time, and you were joining an established group even if they had only just hit 2nd level.

By the same token playing quirky characters can be fine, and not all characters need to start out as being best buddies, though they should be able to work together. Being suspicious of the new character in the context of a plot, commeting on someone's spell selection, or coming up with a nickname like "Wolf Witch" can all be valid, and especially
in the case of the latter are pretty much the kinds of things that can happen in a fantasy novel. Had I been RPing over the pet wolf thing in context to the werewolf threat ICly I would have had my druid tell him "and who better and more motivated to deal with werewolves than a wolf friend like me? How much do YOU know about wolves?".

That said not all character personalities work well together. I've found that sometimes trying to play a character full of bravedo (a heroic stereotype) can oftentimes be confused with the player being an arrogant jerk for example. I also had a bad experience in playing a character who (in second edition) was part of the "Epic Hero" kit and had the fatal flaw of hubris... and I played it that way.

When it comes to Paladins, over the years I've been on a number of "kicks" when I've played. Some of them wierder than others. I had my elf phase, my dwarf phase, my human phase when I got tired of demi-human everything, I has a phase when I played lesbians, a phase when I played super strong, super-dumb barbarians, and a phase where I played paladins. I used to PnP RPGs constantly.

Paladins can be greatly varied. Truthfully a lot of Paladins can be egotistical jerks, but the thing to consider is that even when they are they are STILL undisputably a good guy. It can be hard to do in an RPG, but in fantasy novels there have been many characters like that you eventually wind up cheering for, knowing that for all their flaws they are also REALLY heroic and will save the day in the end.

Paladins also more quintesentially simply represent everything that is best about humanity. Being a boy scout can be more fun than many people give it credit for, especially given how for all comments about them being "stereotypical" they haven't been common for years. It's all about shadowy dark heroes, and being a clear cut good guy in a world that insists people don't exist can be quite fun. In such a case your the exact opposite of being a jerk, and tend to actually try and be nice to everyone.

Of course one of the problems with Paladins in RPGs has always been that they require a cooperative GM. Basically if you have a GM that is going to constantly always beat you over the head with being good and turning it into a huge diadvantage, or constantly put you in F@cked up situations to try and cause you to lose your Paladinhood non stop (once in a long while it's okay, but too often and it becomes stupid) such characters aren't all that fun.

Usually being a Paladin-type works best if your creating your character alongside the rest of a group and the GM from the beginning, with everyone knowing what you want to do and work with you. In many groups you just aren't going to get the right vibe like where everyone wants to play a white-knight hating anti-hero who would mess with you constantly. Not all character concepts work well with all groups. Diverse groups are one things, but if you've got a guy creating a Thief and another guy making a warrior with the Thief-Catcher kit, well your asking for trouble, and really if the GM isn't heading that one off to create some party harmony you can probably guess where the game is going. A bit of back and forth between characters is one thing, but being at odds with each other at a fundemental level is something else entirely.

I really do understand what you're getting at here. And I've said that I wouldn't mind so much if it was just RP. But the guy was being a jerk at every opportunity. Whether or not I was being touchy he was still taking his "character" to ridiculousness because a lot of the criticism was directed at my play style. I do understand that suspicion in a character would make sense from a role-playing perspective, but I wouldn't of walked if I didn't feel he was giving me shit for it's own sake.

Ganthrinor:
As a Dungeon Master, I keep a Wiffle Ball Bat handy for irritating and childish players. It's very important to keep IC and OoC relations seperate.

what about sir schmoopy like antics where his character is one gigantic joke on legs? does that count? do you hit them for making stupid characters?

There's always one in a group of players. Sometimes the best bet is to quit playing until another campaign starts up with better or at least less obnoxious players.

I played in a long term campaign and we had all kinds of issues with a couple of people who played. Most of it was typical stuff - a fair amount of min maxing went on and all of us were pretty convinced one guy was using a loaded d20. One person in particular was a gigantic dick to everyone, both in and out of the game. Not sure why he was tolerated as long as he was, we really didn't need him because he wasn't even that good of a player. But he got his comeuppance...he rolled a natural 1 on a fort save when a boss fight was going down. The spell was flesh to stone. The DM said, and I quote, "<douchebag's name>, give me your character sheet". The boss then used Forceful hand or a similar spell to shove the statue down the flight of stairs we'd just gone up to get to him. Hilarity ensued as the DM ripped up the confiscated character sheet.

He sounds like a good roleplayer.

If anything is shitty, it's when people play cliche goodie old shoes/ generic bwahahah villain roles.

Whatever is in game, stays in game.

Gormourn:
He sounds like a good roleplayer.

If anything is shitty, it's when people play cliche goodie old shoes/ generic bwahahah villain roles.

Whatever is in game, stays in game.

I kinda agree here. I mean you just joined the party, hadn't proved your worth to his character and you are walking around with a wolf while you guys are hunting werewolves. And you are upset because he didn't give you big hugs when you join the party? And even the insults you describe were in character.

Isn't there a point where you type 'I rolled a female half-elf druid' where you just want to jump off the nearest bridge?

beholdmycape:
Isn't there a point where you type 'I rolled a female half-elf druid' where you just want to jump off the nearest bridge?

I know.

What kind of idiot rolls a Half-Elf? Their racials are no where near as good as rolling a Human or an Elf.

Amnestic:

beholdmycape:
Isn't there a point where you type 'I rolled a female half-elf druid' where you just want to jump off the nearest bridge?

I know.

What kind of idiot rolls a Half-Elf? Their racials are no where near as good as rolling a Human or an Elf.

ahaha that made me laugh

Amnestic:

beholdmycape:
Isn't there a point where you type 'I rolled a female half-elf druid' where you just want to jump off the nearest bridge?

I know.

What kind of idiot rolls a Half-Elf? Their racials are no where near as good as rolling a Human or an Elf.

*Raises hand*

I like to play Half-Elves. And while I almost always play Female characters in MMOs, I have never played one in a PnP.

Next time I can actually FIND a D&D group, I think I will have to try that.

gmacarthur81:

Amnestic:

beholdmycape:
Isn't there a point where you type 'I rolled a female half-elf druid' where you just want to jump off the nearest bridge?

I know.

What kind of idiot rolls a Half-Elf? Their racials are no where near as good as rolling a Human or an Elf.

*Raises hand*

I like to play Half-Elves. And while I almost always play Female characters in MMOs, I have never played one in a PnP.

Next time I can actually FIND a D&D group, I think I will have to try that.

I was being facetious, just so you know. Seemed like the best way to respond to someone who seemed to be pulling the very, very old "LOL YOU ROLEPLAY AS A FEMALE!?" card.

I guess I am just so used to hearing that card mentioned that I just automatically tune it out and answer as though a legitimate question was asked.

Dave Arneson was an instructor at the college I attended. He used to tell us about when he DMed games. He's favorite way of dealing with stupid players was "A meteor hits your character and kills it. Roll another." No mercy Dungeon Master.

If that's how his character would react, how would yours? Depending on the amount of PCs its viable, and healthy, to have a small amount of distrust or in-game bickering. I'm sure that if your character was berated they wouldn't have killed themselves, the equivalent of you quitting. If I was in the same situation I probably would've given him the proverbial business. If the situation presents it self... target him for shenanigans. Tell him the DM gave your character an inside tip but you need his help, then stab him in the back. Jump through hoops to please "his character" and at the last second don't heal or don't attack when it could save him... and then ask him what he's learned. That's the game outside of number crunching.

Personally I don't see anything wrong with running a character like that, as long as it's done right. If the guy mentioned by the OP was doing this both in character and in real life, then yeah, he's being a dick and the DM needs to step in. If, however, he was simply being this way in character, then that's something else entirely. If it's kept in character, then the question comes up of whether it's disrupting the group, if it is, then somethign needs to be done, if it's just the two players involved, then it's between them really.

One of my favorite characters that I've run has been a human Spellthief that hated arcane magic, and anybody that practiced it. He styled himself as a sort of bounty hunter of mages, and justified his own abilities with arcane magic as being evil, but necessary tools to hunt down the people that would wield the same energies to do harm to others. All of this made things interesting when I was grouped up with a friend who was running this hardcore wizard that lugged around dozens of spellbooks, books on the arcane, and various bits of magical trinketry. His mage was constantly experimenting, and treated magic as a high art or rather more as a concrete science that he studied and perfected. His character was initially fascinated by my character's abilities, but the two quickly developed a sort of hatred of one another when my character burned all of the spellbooks and research of a villianous wizard that we had defeated. After that he would research for ways to counteract my spell stealing powers, while I would do stuff like stand over him with a dagger drawn, just watching him sleep. We kept begrudgingly saving one anothers lives, and eventually our characters became pretty good friends, and we both learned something from one another, my character learned that magic was simply a tool and that it was only the ones that twisted it for evil purposes that were actually evil. His character learned that one couldn't simply trust that doing whatever it took for a magical breakthough would actually benefit everybody.

So yeah, we kept the rivalry between us, kept it in character, and it ended up being fun for both of us. That being said, I've also been in groups with characters who would try to kill kids for pickpocketing them, and who made the whole group miserable by trying to kill every shopkeeper we met.

So, really, it all boils down to how the person handles it.

Frankly, I've never had your problem, namely because the group I used to D&D with were horrible roleplayers. Outside of the DM, none of them really tried to have their characters show any real personality beyond their skillsets even when the both of us blatantly tried to get them to at least attempt it.

I've only played DnD once, though to be honest I really want to take it up. TT Warhammer 40k has gotten a bit stale, mostly from the exorbitant prices for the models and my friend's Rule Lawyering and trouncing me regularly. Friggin Khorne berzerkers...

Anyway, on topic: I think that acting like a character can be a good thing, but there's a line between a good RPer and staying in line with the character and being a total fucktaco. I say if someone politely asks you to either stop or tone it down, that's when one should take stock of just how important being a dickbag is to you.

Same with 40k - it's a social game with the goal of enjoyment for all parties involved. Dickbaggery is generally counter-productive to this. It's one thing to have character rivalries and such, but when it becomes harassment to the other player then it's just poor sportsmanship.

Also, I think the DM should do a lot to mediate things and keep things civil.

I'd advise those of you suffering from jerkass players to remember the RPG.net Mantra:

"No roleplaying is better than bad roleplaying."

...Or is it "Kill them and take their stuff"? They both work here.

All the best PnP campaigns I've played have all shared one element: a member of the party who was a liability. Someone who could royally screw things up for everyone. Someone who is, say, a drug addict, or is mentally ill. It removed the expectation that the party would always succeed, led to some great situations, and opened up all sorts of potential for great roleplaying.

I was going to respond directly to certain posts here. I've decided not to do so in the interest of avoiding a flame war. But I will respond to some of these posts in general.

I've already stated that I wouldn't have had a problem with this player's behavior if I wasn't being needlessly harassed. If he wanted to roleplay this way and was just doing it to add color, that's one thing. He was being an ass for it's own sake and no other reason. If this is some kind of stupid group hazing crap, then I made the right decision by choosing not to continue. I don't need that fratboy shit from other D&D players, I get enough of it at work.

This happens to me ALL OF THE TIME. I have roughly 10-15 friends who play D&D, and I have to adjudicate for EVERYTHING they do. We always have these people at our games, so we just don't invite them back next time we play.

johnx61:

I would be lying if I said I hadn't run into players who acted this way before. Always stating that their own behavior is what their character would do and thus continue to act insulting and disruptive. For some reason I seem to notice this a lot in Paladin players, I think this comes from a mistaken notion that paladins are super powerful and can do everything.

had this problem in the last game i was in. dwarf paladin was in the group and had to reroll so made dwarf cleric that worshiped an elf god cause i didn't really think beyond usefulness. he took it on him self to be a douche cause of that stating he is in character and thats what paladins do when someone is not like them. he didn't get the idea of a paladin caring more about doing the good thing then just being a complete bastard

I'm currently DM'ing a game where all the PCs are continually on the verge of breaking into factions and offing each other as I cackle with glee. In fact, in my old circle, it was a time-honored tradition to have a to-the-death brawl at the end of every campaign for whatever artifact of power I tossed their way.

They never seem to mind the occasional snark gone too far, and I think it keeps things realistic as opposed to "OH HEY WE'RE ALL THE BEST FRIENDS EVER FOR NO REASON AND NEVER EVER HAVING CONFLICT". It also helps that most of my group are actors, so they can separate character and reality with ease.

I am usually one to state the golden rule of staying in character.

However.

If the indicated character is being a douche, well, the other characters can only take so much of it. Threaten to leave his sorry ass in the next dungeon, so he'll shape up. Nothing says desperation dragon's chomping on your arse.

Or you could kill him, and reply it's something your character would do. If he was a big enough douche, then no other characters should really mind. Follow this up by giving the player a middle finger, and then makign a 'V' shape with your index finger and thumb, and proceed to stick your tongue out in between these twofigners, and dangle it around a bit.

^^