Nudity

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Impposter:

stukov961:

Impposter:
I think this is probably the first nudity thread that doesn't show any nudity on a forum.

buzzkill

I'm terribly sorry about that quite sad fact, good sir.
I was however mearly trying to avoid having to dodge the Banhammer.

Doh! banhammer..

Double buzzkill

Ah, I know. It's all good. It's not that kind of site.

Yeah I know, that's why I'm posting here. =)
I just saw replying to your post as a golden opportunity to sound quite brittish.

our culture is much more accepting of violence than of nudity because of where we come from. In the victorian age, western culture dominated the rest of the world, often through warfare, but forced sexualism to be a huge taboo topic. Also, because conflict, and by extension violence, defines our entire existance, sex/nudity only defines one important aspect of it. Still i agree and had almost this exact rant when i was playing dragon age, WHERE YOU GET COVERED IN TEH GORE OF YOUR ENEMIES, BUT CAN'T SHOW A LITTLE NUDITY?

stukov961:

Impposter:

stukov961:

Impposter:
I think this is probably the first nudity thread that doesn't show any nudity on a forum.

buzzkill

I'm terribly sorry about that quite sad fact, good sir.
I was however mearly trying to avoid having to dodge the Banhammer.

Doh! banhammer..

Double buzzkill

Ah, I know. It's all good. It's not that kind of site.

Yeah I know, that's why I'm posting here. =)
I just saw replying to your post as a golden opportunity to sound quite brittish.

ROFL

Impposter:

ROFL

I'm always happy to provide lol's.

I just beat Heavy Rain, and without any spoilers, my story led to a sex scene that wasn't just thrown in for giggles or for 12 year olds to finally see a breast, but it was actually a part of the development of the characters that a hug or handshake wouldn't convey.
So nudity doesn't always have to be graphic exploitation..it can be like it was hundreds of years ago, when it was considered beautiful and natural.

claw38:
I just beat Heavy Rain, and without any spoilers, my story led to a sex scene that wasn't just thrown in for giggles or for 12 year olds to finally see a breast, but it was actually a part of the development of the characters that a hug or handshake wouldn't convey.
So nudity doesn't always have to be graphic exploitation..it can be like it was hundreds of years ago, when it was considered beautiful and natural.

I felt the same way about the scene in the first Mass Effect. Tastfully done and part of the character development. But then Bioware just had to give in to the media and made it worse in the sequel.

stukov961:

Impposter:

ROFL

I'm always happy to provide lol's.

Well, I was trying to maybe encourage someone get the banhammer by posting something with some cleavage, but all I get is a british accent. ROFL

Well played. This is The Escapist forums alright.

Mr S:
Because everyone has accepted violence as a part of the day. You see violence everywhere.
But you don't see sex.
People are violent all the time, everywhere you go.
But you don't find a lot of people making love in the bus. (I wish)

It's just the way things roll.

Go to Japan or just watch some Hentai.

poiumty:

So this is something that always bugged me, why is it that violence is much more accepted than nudity in videogames?

Because when Uncle Jeremiah goes and cuts the cow's throat back at the farm so we can all have some beefsteak, that's perfectly acceptable and you should watch and learn.

But sex is the devil's temptation and you should be ashamed for doing it. Now go do 1000 Hail Marys and repent for your sins.

Slightly less serious answer, but you can see where i'm coming from.

What a lovely and chillingly accurate metaphor.

stukov961:

Kuchinawa212:
I suppose it's what they think they can do to our minds
nudity could lead to early experimentation (I saw them do it, so it's okay to do it too right?) which is bad.

Violence could lead to people getting a little irritable and maybe punch something. But I'm just pulling those out of thin air. So I may not be the go to guy =\

I disagree, by making nudity a taboo it becomes forbidden fruit, and gets absolutely blown out of proportion. By showing that it really isn't anything special it'll lose appeal for a lot of underage people, just the way as parents in sweden are thought to let their kids taste alcohol at home, thus showing it's nothing special, removing the overhyped forbidden fruit appeal.

You know I do agree with you to a point. But keeping it hidden, of course people want to know what it is. Then take it as a 'doing the unspeakable acts' type thing. Feel as they have accomplished something that is secret. But on the otherhand, if they kinda go into it dimly or get hooked at a young age it might be harder to break them out of a bad habit if one arises

Kuchinawa212:

stukov961:

Kuchinawa212:
I suppose it's what they think they can do to our minds
nudity could lead to early experimentation (I saw them do it, so it's okay to do it too right?) which is bad.

Violence could lead to people getting a little irritable and maybe punch something. But I'm just pulling those out of thin air. So I may not be the go to guy =\

I disagree, by making nudity a taboo it becomes forbidden fruit, and gets absolutely blown out of proportion. By showing that it really isn't anything special it'll lose appeal for a lot of underage people, just the way as parents in sweden are thought to let their kids taste alcohol at home, thus showing it's nothing special, removing the overhyped forbidden fruit appeal.

You know I do agree with you to a point. But keeping it hidden, of course people want to know what it is. Then take it as a 'doing the unspeakable acts' type thing. Feel as they have accomplished something that is secret. But on the otherhand, if they kinda go into it dimly or get hooked at a young age it might be harder to break them out of a bad habit if one arises

As for the alcohol I can testify that it works, I have had very little interest in alcohol even before reaching legal drinking age. SO assuming logic works on this, the same principle should apply to nudity/sex too.

IT OFFENDS DAH LAWD!

Im kinda torn about this subject. I like female nudity, but in games like Devil May Cry 4 I dont like playing because its on a huge tv screen. Maybe if they had psp games that had nudity in them I can give an honest opinion but I cant.

Mr.Squishy:
IT OFFENDS DAH LAWD!

80% of the swedish population are atheists, including me, so yeah...
Besides, religious questions don't belong in the "gaming discussion" section

Interestingly enough, this is due to the values of society, which are still firmly based in the Victorian age, where it was perfectly acceptable to teach someone under the age of 18 to blow a native's head clean off with a maxim gun, but any display of sexuality was not to be discussed, period.

Prove me wrong, find one of these right wing nutjobs who'd think it's more acceptable to show a kid a "terrorist" being brutally murdered than a woman undressed. This isn't a challenge, it's a plee. I'd direly like to know I'm wrong, but for all I've seen, I have a feeling this isn't going to happen =(

Mr S:
Because everyone has accepted violence as a part of the day. You see violence everywhere.
But you don't see sex.
People are violent all the time, everywhere you go.
But you don't find a lot of people making love in the bus. (I wish)

It's just the way things roll.

This.

I can turn on the TV and see that people getting violently assaulted.
I have to pay extra if I want to see sex.

If I can recall it, all the God of War series had a nudity, even whole virtual interactive sex game, it seems there was not much reaction to it. Maybe people will be alright, if the game depicts both extreme violence and nudity. We live in the times when some games get banned, protecting children is not even relevant any more. Most kids under 16 already had been laid and saw 18+ movies, Saw, Hostel and all those teen movies. They would already have been desensitised, I still don't know why these issues get blown out of proportion. I do know I've never played any games where they pull the sex scene in a meaningful way than just for the fun of it.

Furious Styles:
Well, in movies and TV at least, the violence isn't real, the nudity is. That's the difference when it comes to censorship. Real violence is even more taboo, especially deaths and whatnot

How about on the news, when we see the scene of he latest terrorist attack, complete with a severed arm draped over a lamppost? Or the football game where a linebacker gets stepped on the wrong way and suddenly has a leg bone poking out of his skin? Or in car racing, where we are routinely treated to horrendous car crashes some of which result in the deaths of drivers? Such scenarios are rare, but they do happen, and there's never a hue and cry like there was for 2/3 of second of Janet's nipple.
"The logic of a censor is that a man shouldn't be allowed to eat steak because a baby can't chew it."
-Mark Twain

Shirokurou:
In Europe and Russia, such things are a lot easier to pull.
I guess the US is just too puritan towards it...

Yea, In the US we got dumbasses who say its inapropriate to display nudity on games but not when it comes to television, people in other countries are way more leniant.
BTW I love your avatar, Grimmjow, represent

stukov961:

Mr.Squishy:
IT OFFENDS DAH LAWD!

80% of the swedish population are atheists, including me, so yeah...
Besides, religious questions don't belong in the "gaming discussion" section

Dude, I'm Norwegian, I know - most people here are atheists too.

Mr.Squishy:

stukov961:

Mr.Squishy:
IT OFFENDS DAH LAWD!

80% of the swedish population are atheists, including me, so yeah...
Besides, religious questions don't belong in the "gaming discussion" section

Dude, I'm Norwegian, I know - most people here are atheists too.

Yeah I can spot irony when it's written in caps. =P
But you can never be too sure, there are plenty of nutjobs on the internet, alltho hopefully there are none here on the escapist.

poiumty:

So this is something that always bugged me, why is it that violence is much more accepted than nudity in videogames?

Because when Uncle Jeremiah goes and cuts the cow's throat back at the farm so we can all have some beefsteak, that's perfectly acceptable and you should watch and learn.

But sex is the devil's temptation and you should be ashamed for doing it. Now go do 1000 Hail Marys and repent for your sins.

Slightly less serious answer, but you can see where i'm coming from.

XD Nice one.

stukov961:
As in a mature(I hope) discussion about it, not examples of it, you have google for that.

So this is something that always bugged me, why is it that violence is much more accepted than nudity in videogames?

If you have a shooter without any blood gore, or very low levels of it, the game is going to be rated T.
But if you have a 0.5 second glipse of a female nipple it's instantly a M rated game.

Consider for a while Dragon Age: Origins.
You have decapitations complete with bloodsplatter, but in the so called sex scenes the characters are wearing underwear, for some characters (read Morrigan) the bra covers more of her breasts than her default robe.
...seriously!?

To be clear, I absolutely do not want every woman in the game to run around with their breasts uncoverd all the time, but rather have nudity where it actually makes sense. It wouldn't even be that hard to do the cutscene in a way that doesn't show any actual nudity without adding a bra to Morrigan that clearly wasn't there before. The first Mass Effect did it right in my oppinion, it clearly showed that Shepard and the love interest of your choise wasn't wearing anything and having an intimte moment, without showing more than a bit of bare ass an a 0.2 seconds of sideboob.

Of course Dragon Age is far from the only game that does this, but it was the first that came to mind.
It seems to me that the US is most guilty of this, to take another example the US version of The Witcher is censored while the EU version isn't. I can't help but wonder why nudity would be thought of as harmful in a game that is already marked 18+.

That was my outburst of ranting in any case, please feel free to share your own oppinions on the topic. In fact please do, I'm curious as to what the rest of the escapist thinks of this.

so... you haven't played god of war have you? HELLA NUDITY.

also, our media seems perfectly fine with violence and a full range of gore. But for some reason, they get their panties up in a bunch when it comes to sex.

seriously, there is nothing wrong with sex. People are losing their v-cards at younger and younger ages everyday. (Guiness world record, pregnant and birthing at age 5, holy shit right?) I remember when Fallout 3 came out and their was so much bile floating around because you could hire a hooker. (they must have missed GTA3 i guess) That game has violent decapitations left and right. but nobody talks about that.

airports of civilians shot up in a video game, heard about it once.

sex scene in mass effect! *ominous music* fox news runs three specials about the seXBOX.

Bioware is so careful now because as Yahtzee once said, videogamers have about the same social standing as serial killers. They don't need any more bad press.

Once again, I thnk Yatzhee already hit the nail on the head: Once you stop censoring something people stop giving a damn.
So once people get this whole "Dur, sex is bad" idea out of their head and start being more accepting of it in media, nothing will change. Life will go on. Its just the things we have to live with in the flawed societies we live in to be comfortable. Im not bashing the whole idea of a socitey, but theres plenty of completely stupid sets of nonsensical rules we seem to make despite common sense.
Woops, gotta stop this rant before it goes too far.
Anyway, towards the OP: Your right. It should be where it makes sense, and only in moderation, but not restricted as it is now. I notice it has become a bit more and more present (god of war, dante's inferno, oh wait! They are the same game XD), but havent been used properly yet. Just gotta wait for devs to be more and more subtly sneaking it in until it will be as though it was always there.

TY7ERDURDEN:

so... you haven't played god of war have you? HELLA NUDITY.

No, due to the simple reason of not owning a ps3, or any other console for that matter.
And yeah the media are a bit inconsistent when it comes to what they're complaining about, to say the least.

Staskala:

Nouw:
Violence is everywhere. This guy on the Escapist had an excellent argument about exactly this.

You see violence everywhere. Fact. You also see violence everyday. Fact.
Of course it could be slightly less then 'everywhere' and 'everyone' but you get the point.

You don't see full frontal nudity in billboards, T.V. ads, School Hallways and etc. I wish .It's generally about Culture, violence is undoubtedly part of culture but nudity is not.

It's something we have to ease into. We survive on violence so it's taken as something more acceptable then nudity. After all, we didn't wear nothing to survive. We used violence.

Isn't it exactly the other way around?
We survive on procreation and you need to put at least something out to do it.
Violence against humans doesn't help us survive, if there wasn't any violence you would never even need to use violence to protect your life. If you kill/hurt someone to protect yourself, you decrease his chances of survival, so it's even anyway.

Christ, I sound like a goddamn hippie.

Yes you do. Not that it's a bad thing I meant violence towards anything. After all, we hunted animals to survive in our dawn. Also, that's sex, not nudity. Sure sex is about nudity but we don't see neither and both is hidden away. Whereas violence we see and it's practically everywhere.

OP, I hope you read my post.

The US drives the game market. The US leadership and media has a history of turning a blind eye to language and violence and it's availability to youth or even those under 18. Nudity, sexuality, and suggestive imagery those are a major no no in the eyes of the controlling parties in media and politics. Many of whom grew up with one war or another on the nightly news, but whose hair is long ago turned gray.

We can watch Joe Theisman (insert any other terrible injury) get his leg completely snapped till you are literally nauseous on "family" television. But a millisecond flash of a nipple at the superbowl and we have nipplegate. Leading to more extreme censorship on broadcast networks as one small part of the backlash.

The mighty WalMart might not carry a game if it gets an M/adult rating or any negative publicity for sexual content. So since nudity is an instant M developers lose a potential distributor that can make or break the success of a game. So they aren't the media (given other negative backlash) that will push the envelope of acceptance. Leave that to shows like Sopranos and True Blood and the like. The popularity of which points to a greater acceptance by the people of the US of nudity and sexuality than their governing bodies will give them credit for.

Where I live women can be topless in public (not very many choose to be) so I find it mystifying the stance taken in the US.

I am certainly no expert simply an outside observer.

Nouw:

OP, I hope you read my post.

Yes I did, it was quite interesting.
It is (imho) indeed a flawed world we live in where kicking someone in the groin is more socialy accepteble than seeing a woman's nipple on TV.

Mr S:
Because everyone has accepted violence as a part of the day. You see violence everywhere.
But you don't see sex.

Clearly you have never watched television.

stukov961:

DemonicVixen:

Nieroshai:

(assuming you're a straight guy) When's the last time you looked at a naked woman for more than a second and NOT gotten turned on?

Erm, i know a straight guy who cant get turned on by 1 or more glances at a naked woman. Depending on the guy and his frame of mind, it isnt always just the woman being naked thats needed to turn them on...

Im a woman with a small amount of experience in that field... and friends who've been there.

How about a naked woman beeing tortured?
I as a straight guy would most certainly not not be turned on by that.

Well, in the means of blood, pain and proper torture resulting in traumatising the woman, then no I should hope guys dont get turned on by that (though some sick ones do >.>)
But many men enjoy bondage and bondage fetishes. It all depends on the people i guess, both men and women alike.

DemonicVixen:

stukov961:

DemonicVixen:

Nieroshai:

(assuming you're a straight guy) When's the last time you looked at a naked woman for more than a second and NOT gotten turned on?

Erm, i know a straight guy who cant get turned on by 1 or more glances at a naked woman. Depending on the guy and his frame of mind, it isnt always just the woman being naked thats needed to turn them on...

Im a woman with a small amount of experience in that field... and friends who've been there.

How about a naked woman beeing tortured?
I as a straight guy would most certainly not not be turned on by that.

Well, in the means of blood, pain and proper torture resulting in traumatising the woman, then no I should hope guys dont get turned on by that (though some sick ones do >.>)
But many men enjoy bondage and bondage fetishes. It all depends on the people i guess, both men and women alike.

Yes, I was refering to actual torture.

Wolfram01:

Hollock:
Last year in my Current Events class we were watching a video that featured a guy beating an seal to death, about half the class laughed and cheered. 30 seconds later they show a picture of Adam and Eve, they voiced their dissapproval. So the answer is simple violence is good, nuditys bad. Ed good, Rocko bad.

What the hell? Who laughs at seeing a baby seal get beat down? That, to me, is a bad sign...

As for Adam and Eve, well, if they don't like the bible reference then that's one thing, but if it's something related to the nudity...

Where is this happening? South east USA?

They definently weren't mad about the christianity and this is Northeast United states (Massachusetts)

Hollock:

Wolfram01:

Hollock:
Last year in my Current Events class we were watching a video that featured a guy beating an seal to death, about half the class laughed and cheered. 30 seconds later they show a picture of Adam and Eve, they voiced their dissapproval. So the answer is simple violence is good, nuditys bad. Ed good, Rocko bad.

What the hell? Who laughs at seeing a baby seal get beat down? That, to me, is a bad sign...

As for Adam and Eve, well, if they don't like the bible reference then that's one thing, but if it's something related to the nudity...

Where is this happening? South east USA?

They definently weren't mad about the christianity and this is Northeast United states (Massachusetts)

Your classmates are terrible human beeings.

Son, I am dissapoint. This thread had so much ban potential in its name.

Arawn.Chernobog:
Because Soccer Moms fail at logic

So do over-zealous religious lunatics and everyone else that holds "THINK OF DA CHILDREN!" as an obstacle for accepting such thematics.

This.

As well, get mods on PC games. Nudity becomes a non-issue.

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