Metal Gear Solid - Why do people hate Raiden?

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Ever since Metal Gear Solid 2 came out I've heard nothing but bashing the character Raiden. I actually like this character. He is very dynamic and interesting and I can't wait for Metal Gear Solid Rising. I encountered a lot of people who say they dislike MGS2 simply because of him. What do so many people seem to hate this character?

I thought he was a sulky blonde pussy with an annoying girlfriend. Apparently he got a lot more badass in MGS4 but I've not played that.

He just seems like a whiny little brat to me. Haven't played MGS2 in probably eight years, but that's my memory of him.

I mean... they made him a cyborg ninja and he still wasn't cool.

In Metal Gear Solid 2 Raiden is a chump: green and inexperienced. Also after a long wait from the first Metal Gear Solid, fans were hoping to play as Solid Snake. I was disappointed that I only got to play as Snake for about a sixth of the game.

I will hand it to Kojima though. He turned Raiden in to a Mega-leet bad ass killing machine in MGS 4

He wasn't snake and mgs2 was the worst game of them all. They make him a ninja in 4 but he still isn't very interesting. He never got the chance he may have deserved because we got teased with playing as Snake then bam Raiden making you hate him.

I'm in the minority where I didn't mind him in MGS2. I definitely understand why people hate him in MGS2, but I'm not one of them and think he has some interesting qualities at least.

It's hard to deny that by MGS4 he became a certified badass though.

In MGS2, I think most people agree that Raiden was a shitty character. A whiny, confused, easily manipulated rookie, with a really jarring appearance.

MGS2 was a pretty good game, it brought great advancements in the gameplay. But to be fair, the story had many problems. And they did not start and end with just Raiden. I've played through MGS2 many many times, and I still barely remember what the hell the game was even about. The Big Shell was being held by terrorists with a nuke, but it it turns out that something about the Big Shell being a recreation of Shadow Moses to train another soldier to replace Solid Snake which was the purpose of Raiden, but then it turns out the entire thing was an experiment by an AI to control global human social consciousness and the progression of human historyFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF.

The story in MGS2 was just overwhelmingly full of shit, and poor Raiden was not up to the task of tying the hackneyed disaster writeup by Kojima together.

Raiden returns in MGS4 as a battle-hardened cyborg ninja, as a character he was just a lot better this time around. It was disappointing that there wasn't much interaction with him, I was at least pleased that he did seem to have made a turn around.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to rising too.

And to be fair, as long as I get another slice of stealth action, I won't mind playing as radian in the HD collection.

I don't get it either. Raiden was a really interesting case of a character as he'd practically been raised from childhood as a soldier but he's still a greenhorn and on that he's easily manipulated. He flipped shit and returned in Metal Gear Solid 4 with a full on psychosis forged in betrayl, deciept and dishonesty.

I really felt for Raiden at the end of Metal Gear Solid 2, because I'd been with him all the way and I was the one that controlled the chap I felt that I'd been taken along for a ride right with him.

In short; he's not Solid Snake. That is the only reason I can think of; aesthetically Raiden's androgynous appearance is the polar opposite of Snake's Western character.

Because we MGS fans wanted to play as solid snake in the second game and MGS2 has a very dastardly trick to not let you play as Snake AT ALL. At the beginning of the game it asks for an 'action level', including the question if you played the previous game. If you say you didn't, the game skips the Snake part and gives you a game with only Raiden and Snake as a support character.

I think that Raiden wasn't a very bad character in MGS2, but having him, a previously unknown character, to replace Snake altogether doesn't give him a good start. Then he has an annoying girlfriend and his boss has the worst twist in VG history ever in MGS2. In the end the character might not be bad, but the way he was presented was as if a sledgehammer smashed constantly against your head with the MLP:FIM quote from Fluttershy; "YOU WILL LOVE ME!"

Needless to say, yes, I hate Raiden too. Mostly, because he clearly tries to appeal to Japanese cool kids, though. That is why he is slender, has blond hair and has no redeeming features whatsoever in MGS2, not even a poster in his room.

Michael Brunson:
In Metal Gear Solid 2 Raiden is a chump: green and inexperienced. Also after a long wait from the first Metal Gear Solid, fans were hoping to play as Solid Snake. I was disappointed that I only got to play as Snake for about a sixth of the game.

I will hand it to Kojima though. He turned Raiden in to a Mega-leet bad ass killing machine in MGS 4

This anserw is 100% correct!

Because no one bought Metal Gear Solid 2 to play as Raiden...They wanted to play as Snake. I mean if they had changed the name of the series to Metal Gear Raiden then fine, I can understand why some people would be all for it but it's like making the next Sonic or Mario game with a different main character. It doesn't matter how cool you try to make that character, everyone will hate him/her and hate the game as a whole if they've played any of the games in the series that came before.

I don't know, I didn't hate him.

It may just be his effiminate design, but it probably has something to do with that level where he was doing naked cartwheels. That, and his girlfriend wouldn't shut up.

Don't tell anyone, but I liked him.

Snake was kind of a jerk in the end there where he used him to get onboard their airship or whatnot. His girlfriend was flipping out, I'm still not sure if it was her or the computer talking to him at the end, and he's just out there doing his thing. Then he reappers in MGS4, all pimped out, and who do they put him against? Vamp. Sad.

What are you talking about? Everybody loves characters like Raiden and Nero.
Everybody lovessss it when they bring in new, young characters to replace the old, dull characters in video game francises. (seriously, old guys are such fags)
And they don't have little girl feelings, TEA TIME!, at all.
So siree, no faffing about with these newbies! (or their skirts)
.....
I'm kidding.
.....
Nobody likes it when video game companies introduce somebody new when the old guy we all came to know and love is right there! But we have to be the new blood instead.

Which is pretty much what everybody else said:
We had already established the Snake was a bamf before MGS2 and then we barely got to be him and we got handed this kid with 12yro feelings.

Oh well, they learned what NOT to do in the next game. Win Win

It's pretty simple: when a character is forced on you in place of the much-loved original character who still has plenty of mileage and generally just no reason to replace, and you have no choice but to stick with him for the rest of the game, the chances are you'll have a very negative first impression which you'll stick with for a long time. Of course, him being a whiny little brat didn't help either...

Oh, so we're not talking about Raiden from Mortal Kombat? Damn.

Because he wans't Snake and I had to play him in MGS2.

Liked him better in MSG4 though.

Simple, he isn't Snake. Practically the whole game is spent trying to turn him INTO Snake. After years of playing MGS1 and waiting for a sequel, we finally get one, and instead of the hero we were waiting years to play as, we get some white-haired annoyance >_<

....not to mention Raiden comes OUT OF NOWHERE. Then he whines. Then his support team is annoying as hell itself(rose is a bitch cough cough). But whatever, I felt I could rest easy knowing they wouldn't pull something stupid with him again.....

Then in MGS4 they tried turning him into GRAY FUCKING FOX. >:(

In short, I dislike raiden because he was put into positions he should never have been in, in the first place. And that, boys and girls, is why I dislike raiden.

Because even though he looks badass in MGS4 the gameplay footage of MGS Rising looks like an HD version of Afro Samurai's gameplay. Carbon Copy pretty much. I didn't mind him much in MGS2 because Snake was always there to back him up, but I can't say I wouldn't have like playing as Snake better. MGS Rising has none of Hideo Kojima's approval nor insight which worries me, and the fact that the gameplay is a blatant rip off of a mediocre game doesn't help.

But Snake was in MGS2, throughout the whole game. You didn't play as him much because he didn't have much to do, and what Raiden was doing was far more interesting.

And if controlling Snake on-screen is the sole reason others buy and play MGS, why hasn't anyone had a go at MGS3? You don't play as Snake and you don't see him whatsoever.

I just started playing MGS2 again. I think it's not so much Raiden himself, but more so what he's up against. Come on, who can match Solid Snake? Maybe it would be okay if Snake wasn't around anymore. But we got to play as him for a while, and he's even present in Raiden's mission. Having the two side-by-side doesn't do Raiden any favours. And he just doesn't seem to be a suiting protagonist. I find him very irritating - especially in his discussions with Rose. And in his first interaction with Pliskin, he's all to eager to answer his questions, and even gives him his gun back. It doesn't seem very prudent for someone on a mission of that importance.

I think what it comes down to is that he's not a bad character - he's just no Solid Snake.

Sapient Pearwood:
I thought he was a sulky blonde pussy with an annoying girlfriend. Apparently he got a lot more badass in MGS4 but I've not played that.

Yeah, he's a lot less of a little puss if MGS4, but all his whiney-gayness was replaced by emoness, so it's not much of an improvement.

Let me see. He's a pussy, he's like an anime character and he looks completely out of place in MGS2. His story sucks and nobody cared for it. He's not as awesome as Snake. He's not Snake. He was better in MGS4, but his story still sucked and he was still an emotional wreck. That's why I'm still on the fence about MGS Rising. I don't like that dude.

Mostly it's because they pulled a fast one on us gamers and gave us Raiden(who is not Snake) instead of Snake in MGS2 after making it look like we'd play as Snake. Pissed me off because, while I like Raiden, he is no Snake. He did get cooler in MGS4(Gray Fox is still more awesome) but it did seem like they were just trying to play off Gray Fox.

Snake and Big Boss were always more entertaining to play as. And David Hayter's sultry(okay raspy) tones are music to my ears.

edit: And Rose sucked.

edit 2: I gotta track down MGS2 and give it another go.

Moromillas:
But Snake was in MGS2, throughout the whole game. You didn't play as him much because he didn't have much to do, and what Raiden was doing was far more interesting.

And if controlling Snake on-screen is the sole reason others buy and play MGS, why hasn't anyone had a go at MGS3? You don't play as Snake and you don't see him whatsoever.

I found the problem less that "We play as raiden" and more that Konami went out of their way to deliberately hide from the player that we would play as raiden. The trailers make no mention or sight of him, nor the opening cinematic of the game. He's mentioned 3 times in the whole manual and if you aren't looking you'll miss it.

At least in MGS3 they were more or less straight up about not playing as solid snake.

captaincabbage:

Sapient Pearwood:
I thought he was a sulky blonde pussy with an annoying girlfriend. Apparently he got a lot more badass in MGS4 but I've not played that.

Yeah, he's a lot less of a little puss if MGS4, but all his whiney-gayness was replaced by emoness, so it's not much of an improvement.

I can forgive the emoness for what he does later in the game.

Moromillas:
But Snake was in MGS2, throughout the whole game. You didn't play as him much because he didn't have much to do, and what Raiden was doing was far more interesting.

And if controlling Snake on-screen is the sole reason others buy and play MGS, why hasn't anyone had a go at MGS3? You don't play as Snake and you don't see him whatsoever.

Snake and Big Boss are similar characters in appearance, attitude, back story, and have the same voice actor.

Mainly cause it was a bait and switch. While everybody knew, and Konami was quite forthcoming, with the fact that MGS3 would centre around Big Boss, literally up to the day that MGS2 released, people thought it was all about Solid Snake. They expected to see Solid Snake, and Snake even took us through the Tutorial, and then we were left with Raiden. People felt a little short sold on the experience - they felt lied to.

That, and Raiden and Rose have a tendency to have huge awkward conversations whenever you want to try and save.

I kinda liked playing as Raiden, I got what Kojima was doing, preserving Snake's badassery without my clumsy fingers controlling him...

Actually I see Raiden more as a parody of Yourself, the player who thinks he can be as good as Snake by just playing video games (hence the whole simulation thing).

But its more likely they all hate Raiden because of the bait and switch thing... its not MGS if its not Snake kinda thing.

Michael Brunson:

I will hand it to Kojima though. He turned Raiden in to a Mega-leet bad ass killing machine in MGS 4

This.

In MGS4 Raiden was all bro'd out.

Breakdancing with a sword between his toes an $hit, just cutting brehs up as if they were swiss cheese.

MGS2: Whiney girly dude.

MGS4: Slightly more badass, but a sulky emo kid. Not much better.

Fans of the series couldn't accept that Raiden is a representation of how Kojima sees them, a bunch of whiny fools who hero worship Solid Snake and clamour to see him do some badass something or other.

Raiden is easily one of the most interesting characters in Metal Gear Solid 2. Far more interesting than Snake was, at the very least.

Sapient Pearwood:
I thought he was a sulky blonde pussy with an annoying girlfriend. Apparently he got a lot more badass in MGS4 but I've not played that.

This. I hated Raiden in MGS2, but suddenly Kojima turned him into a serious badass in MGS4

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