The Geth in Mass Effect 3 (ME2 Spoilers)

 Pages 1 2 NEXT
 

So, in Legion's loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2, you can destroy the Reaper's Geth, or re-write them. But isn't it possible that in ME3, if you rewrote the Geth, they could become evil again? It doesn't seem "safe" to me. Not a true solution. They could always change their minds again, or the virus could lose its effect, and if they do, they are right there in the middle of allied forces. What are your thoughts on this? And how did you solve Legion's mission?

I reprogrammed them. Maybe they'll come help me fight Cerberus.

I haxxed the Geth. If their decision was a simple logic error (as Legion Said), then re-writing it isn't really that unethical, especially given the stakes. Furthermore, if they were left unchecked, they might have remade the virus again and unleashed it on the other Geth without me being able to stop them.

So yeah, I rewrote the geth. I think it was both the best, and safest decision.

Put it this way:

Geth are sentient beings. Yes, they could change their minds. There really isn't all that much difference between the Loyalist and Heretic geth in the first place; one wants to decide how they should evolve by themselves, one wants to use Reaper assistance.

So yes they could change their minds. Probably won't though.

I hacked the geth; it made me feel super manly giving the command to program the thoughts of a large amount of sentient robots.../jk?

I just figured that if they turn on us, they'll just feel Mr Shepard's ironclad boot of superior renegade. At any rate, it'd be a highly illogical chose to go agaisnt renegade Shepard's command.

aegix drakan:
I haxxed the Geth. If their decision was a simple logic error (as Legion Said)

He didn't say it was an error. He said that while the normal Geth saw that two is one more then one, the Reaper!Geth saw that two is one less then three. Or something like that. He even said that not all of the Reaper!Geth's choices where bad ones.

If there's one thing I respect it's bad decisions. I let the Geth live and die with their decisions just like I would with any organic lifeform. They wouldn't listen to reason, but I'm not gonna fiddle around in their heads because I respect their rather terrible decision to fight Shepard in the first place.
Two other things to note though. The rest of the Geth could still be pals, and they're aiming for a Dyson Sphere. If you don't know what it is, it's a giant solar power station built entirely around a star and would take outrageous resources, which'll hopefully lead to some interesting decisions dealing with our Geth friends who can actually get immortality.
Quick Edit: Ironically I chose the Renegade option with Paragon reasoning. Go figure.

I rewrote the geth. I felt this was the lesser of two evils - though not by much. As was mentioned, the geth themselves were hacked by the reapers and therefore I felt like I was able to write a wrong...though the ethics of completely destroying a cultural identity of an entire group of intelligent beings kind of made me feel like crap afterward. However, having the geth as a united front to battle side by side with me against the reaper threat/possibly convincing the whole geth construct to leave the Quarians alone mitigated the problem for me - all's fair...right?

EDIT: Also, there seems to be a bug in my game: that decision seems to award paragon/renegade points at random in my playthroughs: the first time I played I hacked them and got the 30 renegade points - and it changes on all my playthroughs. Not that it really matters as I don't decide based on what the decisions will net me, but I thought it interesting enough to share.

I hacked them but I am worried about something. In the ME3 E3 trailer you can see Shepard fighting Geth. Is this Shepard good or bad? What decision did he make? God I HOPE THE Geth are on my side.

Explosions. Killed them. It was a choice between that and brainwashing them. Which isn't fair to do to a sentient being. Besides, they were the rogue faction, most have nothing against anyone.

And with the ease I could reprogrammed them, what would make it impossible for anyone else to do the same? Seems they were hacked before, if I recall correctly.

Having them on my side in the last battle would probably feel like involuntary triple agents, or so. Never sure where their allegiance lies.

I made Shepard rewrite the Geth. And in my envisioning of the Mass Effect Universe, it was a necessary evil that eats away at Shepard to this very day.

Because in the end, everyone should be free to choose, even if they choose wrongly. However, in this galaxy the game is have as many allies as you can or everyone, everything, dies in the wake of the reapers.

Sacrifices must be made. Crimes committed. Lives must be taken. Minds over-written. Shepard will not dwell in glory or pride when this is over. He is a murderer, and a dictator. He has indoctrinated just as the Reapers do. He has become the evil he hates out of the necessity of their destruction.

That's how I see it.

I don't think the Heretics (if you rewrote them) will turn on you in ME3; it doesn't concur with their logic. The Geth have no motive to return to their heretical ways, as the rewrite in ME2 wasn't a suppression of their original beliefs, but rather a complete overhaul of what is right and wrong to them. It's not as though the Geth have underlying programming or desires to be one way or the other, they accept their code however it's written. It would be like a computer rejecting a change in operating system, the computer does what it's programmed to, it doesn't prefer one way or the other. It's a matter of editing the programming to say "I like vanilla ice cream" instead of "I like chocolate ice cream".

Granted though, Legion seems to be a sore thumb on an otherwise healthy hand - he seems to have a further grasp on things (i.e. his ability to talk) than most other Geth we've encountered, and that perhaps might suggest Geth aren't as static as they appear to be.

The Geth are very adamant in their decisions, once something is decided on, that topic will no longer need to be considered unless there is significant change in the situation.

If you used the virus, then you now have a full contingent of Geth that are in consensus that the best thing for the Geth, would be to not take the Reapers up on any offers for their technology, and continue progress on their 'Dyson Sphere' alone.

The arrival of the reaper invasion will almost certainly force to Geth to come to our aid, because if the Reapers succeed, they will be unable to continue their work independently.

Tilted_Logic:
I don't think the Heretics (if you rewrote them) will turn on you in ME3; it doesn't concur with their logic. The Geth have no motive to return to their heretical ways, as the rewrite in ME2 wasn't a suppression of their original beliefs, but rather a complete overhaul of what is right and wrong to them. It's not as though the Geth have underlying programming or desires to be one way or the other, they accept their code however it's written. It would be like a computer rejecting a change in operating system, the computer does what it's programmed to, it doesn't prefer one way or the other. It's a matter of editing the programming to say "I like vanilla ice cream" instead of "I like chocolate ice cream".

Granted though, Legion seems to be a sore thumb on an otherwise healthy hand - he seems to have a further grasp on things (i.e. his ability to talk) than most other Geth we've encountered, and that perhaps might suggest Geth aren't as static as they appear to be.

Perhaps you have a point. I will consider this on my next playthrough.

I rewrote, as it is the lesser evil, I need the millions of Geth to survive the reaper invasion, and to (hopefully) stop the Quarians being idiots and make them not go to war with the geth (that would be my justification as well if I made the decision RPing as my IRL self). Survival, any means necessary, that's how my character's ethics work. Apart from helping Cerberus. I do anything to undermine them, for good reasons (she being a sole survivor, go figure). This being on my primary character which will be going into ME3 first of course. If you know what Cerberus is up to in ME3, don't reply to me without spoiler tags please, I want to go in completely ignorant.

I'm a bit suspicious about legion though - he said the same thing as Sovereign about humanity using the mass relays and whatnot - he said the paths we wanted you to follow, not the paths the reapers wanted humanity (and the other races) to follow.

Spectral Dragon:
Explosions. Killed them. It was a choice between that and brainwashing them. Which isn't fair to do to a sentient being. Besides, they were the rogue faction, most have nothing against anyone.

there were 13.4 million 'rogue' geth, and just over 1,100 'normal' geth.

personally i asked legion what the geth thought they should do with the heretics. legion stated that they have not reached a consensus however the vote was like 574 to reprogram and 572 against so i went with the majority since its not my place to make that kind of decision for an entire sentient "race"

They're robots. So I chose to do what people do with robots that don't work as desired, re-program. As "sentient" as they are they're still robots, not living creatures.

Richardplex:
there were 13.4 million 'rogue' geth, and just over 1,100 'normal' geth.

Nope. The 1,100-or-so were the ones operating with the platform Legion. The millions were the normal ones, with goals not interfering with any other races' goals. The renegade faction working with Nazara's numbers are to my knowledge unknown.

OT again: It wasn't the entire race, just that small faction. They'd chosen a path, and merely had to deal with the consequenses. Not to say I don't feel sympathy, but this was the most humane thing, in my opinion.

I've done it both ways, and the rewriting makes more sense. Geth have greater cognitive ability when together in large numbers, blowing them up gives more reason to the heretics to hate organics and paint Shepard as a terrorist, and, as Legion put it, treating the geth as your own species rather their own in terms of dealing with the issue is 'racist or benign anthropomorphism.'

As for those who say they commend them for fighting for what they believe in, consider this: their cause is to kill all organics since they find machine intelligence superior. They're called heretical because of this clash with mainstream geth belief that each sentient race should pave their own future. "True" geth would fight if provoked, heretics would provoke to make a fight. Also, blowing up their main base of operations rather than confronting every single heretic in the base is no more different than nuking an enemy stronghold rather than charging at them. You're not letting them fight for what they believe in, you're killing them for what they believe in so you can make an easy victory.

More geth against the Reapers equates to a greater chance of victory for the galaxy. In fact, it could even help mend the schism between the quarians and the geth as well. When the choice is between brainwashing or mass genocide, I think we can hopefully agree that neither decision is ethical in a real world application.

With the Geth and Rachni helping me kicking the ass of Cerberus and the Reapers, who cares?

Spectral Dragon:

Richardplex:
there were 13.4 million 'rogue' geth, and just over 1,100 'normal' geth.

Nope. The 1,100-or-so were the ones operating with the platform Legion. The millions were the normal ones, with goals not interfering with any other races' goals. The renegade faction working with Nazara's numbers are to my knowledge unknown.

OT again: It wasn't the entire race, just that small faction. They'd chosen a path, and merely had to deal with the consequenses. Not to say I don't feel sympathy, but this was the most humane thing, in my opinion.

...That makes so much more sense why they could have consensus' but there was no individual for Shepard to refer to by name. Thank you sir, you've made me less ignorant.

Tilted_Logic:

Granted though, Legion seems to be a sore thumb on an otherwise healthy hand - he seems to have a further grasp on things (i.e. his ability to talk) than most other Geth we've encountered, and that perhaps might suggest Geth aren't as static as they appear to be.

Remember that Geth share a connection, and as they grow in numbers locally, their ability to rationalize and examine and react grows. Legion isn't named "Legion" because it sounds fancy. His body is a mobile, self-sufficient platform that hosts thousands of individual Geth processes or "souls", all working at once.

Essentially, Legion is like having 1200 individual Geth soldiers sharing one body. It allows him to think, react, speak, and everything else we have seen. Its also the only Geth specifically designed to interact with organic sentient beings. He's unique because the Geth collective designed him specifically to be.

Doragon Shinzui:
If there's one thing I respect it's bad decisions. I let the Geth live and die with their decisions just like I would with any organic lifeform. They wouldn't listen to reason, but I'm not gonna fiddle around in their heads because I respect their rather terrible decision to fight Shepard in the first place.
Two other things to note though. The rest of the Geth could still be pals, and they're aiming for a Dyson Sphere. If you don't know what it is, it's a giant solar power station built entirely around a star and would take outrageous resources, which'll hopefully lead to some interesting decisions dealing with our Geth friends who can actually get immortality.
Quick Edit: Ironically I chose the Renegade option with Paragon reasoning. Go figure.

Don't worry, you're not the only one. Many players are of the opinion that the choices in this instance are back to front.

OT:
Silly answer: depends if they ret-con Norton in.

Serious answer: the choices are the greatest strength of the game. I want to see what happens with the various choices. I'm really hoping they make a better job of making them count in ME2->ME3 than they did for ME->ME2.

I hacked them, because while you may call it brainwashing or unfair to a sentient being, peacefully and harmlessly changing ideals is more ethical than mass genocide. Killing an entire race when you have a better peaceful option is just kind of cruel. Plus, having a huge group of geth is a HUGE help.

The thought of outright genocide didn't appeal to me. That is why I rewrote them. If they do turn evil again I will just have to kick their asses again.

You're destroying their perspective either way, but one way you're sparing their lives.

Legion made the difference sound rather trivial anyways, like whether you round 5 up or down since its in the middle. It's more of creating a universal standard than brain washing, like making everyone use Metric as their measurement system.

Richardplex:

Spectral Dragon:

OT again: It wasn't the entire race, just that small faction. They'd chosen a path, and merely had to deal with the consequenses. Not to say I don't feel sympathy, but this was the most humane thing, in my opinion.

...That makes so much more sense why they could have consensus' but there was no individual for Shepard to refer to by name. Thank you sir, you've made me less ignorant.

All in a day's work. And hey, we all have misunderstandings.

Back OT, because I feel I have to add something meaningful: I wonder if the decision there affects what the geth as a whole think of you. Or, since they're no longer part of the collective, does it even matter? ME3 has some interesting situations to deal with...

TheDarkEricDraven:
So, in Legion's loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2, you can destroy the Reaper's Geth, or re-write them. But isn't it possible that in ME3, if you rewrote the Geth, they could become evil again? It doesn't seem "safe" to me. Not a true solution. They could always change their minds again, or the virus could lose its effect, and if they do, they are right there in the middle of allied forces. What are your thoughts on this? And how did you solve Legion's mission?

In Legion's Loyalty mission I choose the Paragon option or Renegade option depending on which playthrough I'm doing. So I've done both. But to finish the story properly, I'll be doing all Paragon.

However, I see it like this:

Legion rewrote them with his own information, essentially connecting them to HIM directly through the hive mind. Now, given that, and given that Legion had essentially one man against the world turned to not believing that Sheppard is evil and needs to die, his programing being put into a hive mind would make the rest the same way. It would be an army of Legion clones. So the thought that a Reaper would be able to just change it, or that the could change themselves.

In one playthrough I rewrote them, in another I destroyed them. I'm hoping ME3 gives me the choice to merge the saves, in effect breaking the entire game before I even got the chance to play it.

TheDarkEricDraven:
So, in Legion's loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2, you can destroy the Reaper's Geth, or re-write them. But isn't it possible that in ME3, if you rewrote the Geth, they could become evil again? It doesn't seem "safe" to me. Not a true solution. They could always change their minds again, or the virus could lose its effect, and if they do, they are right there in the middle of allied forces. What are your thoughts on this? And how did you solve Legion's mission?

I reprogrammed them, under the understanding that if I didn't, they and I would fight each other until either or both of us were dead. reprogramming them allowed them to live through the coming Reapocalypse, and possibly aid me in addition.

As for you concerns with the Heretics coming back: It's a possibility, however, I don't think it will happen as it is overshadowed by the long hinted at Quarian/Geth war.

Waitaminute..... That could be the trigger. Imagine that during negotiations for the Quarians to get their home back, the generally peaceful Geth suddenly attack the Quarian fleet, all because those reprogrammed Heretics revert back! Oh wouldn't that be a twist!

And it would be a fitting situation. If you were to kill the Heretics, The genocidal-minded Quarians would be the ones who would instigate the fight because the Geth would be in a weakened state (and would coincide nicely with Renegade-minded Shepherd who would most likely support the Quarians by either destroying the Geth or enslaving them). However, if the Heretics were to be reprogrammed, then they'd break free of the "brainwashing" and try and instigate a war to help their gods (Which would force a Paragon-minded Shepherd to support the Geth by either defeating the Quarians or by making them see that the Heretics do not represent the Geth as a whole, and bring peace).

Either situation has a singular-side victory situation (which would be considered a weakened state for the victor i.e die because of the Reapers) and a "co-operative"-side situation (As both forces are still around to fight ie. survive the Reapers)

You sir, are quite sharp in pointing that out, and have given me quite a lot to ponder upon.

The Heik:

TheDarkEricDraven:
So, in Legion's loyalty mission in Mass Effect 2, you can destroy the Reaper's Geth, or re-write them. But isn't it possible that in ME3, if you rewrote the Geth, they could become evil again? It doesn't seem "safe" to me. Not a true solution. They could always change their minds again, or the virus could lose its effect, and if they do, they are right there in the middle of allied forces. What are your thoughts on this? And how did you solve Legion's mission?

I reprogrammed them, under the understanding that if I didn't, they and I would fight each other until either or both of us were dead. reprogramming them allowed them to live through the coming Reapocalypse, and possibly aid me in addition.

As for you concerns with the Heretics coming back: It's a possibility, however, I don't think it will happen as it is overshadowed by the long hinted at Quarian/Geth war.

Waitaminute..... That could be the trigger. Imagine that during negotiations for the Quarians to get their home back, the generally peaceful Geth suddenly attack the Quarian fleet, all because those reprogrammed Heretics revert back! Oh wouldn't that be a twist!

And it would be a fitting situation. If you were to kill the Heretics, The genocidal-minded Quarians would be the ones who would instigate the fight because the Geth would be in a weakened state (and would coincide nicely with Renegade-minded Shepherd who would most likely support the Quarians by either destroying the Geth or enslaving them). However, if the Heretics were to be reprogrammed, then they'd break free of the "brainwashing" and try and instigate a war to help their gods (Which would force a Paragon-minded Shepherd to support the Geth by either defeating the Quarians or by making them see that the Heretics do not represent the Geth as a whole, and bring peace).

Either situation has a singular-side victory situation (which would be considered a weakened state for the victor i.e die because of the Reapers) and a "co-operative"-side situation (As both forces are still around to fight ie. survive the Reapers)

You sir, are quite sharp in pointing that out, and have given me quite a lot to ponder upon.

Gosh dang it, now I'm paranoid again.

The Heik:
That could be the trigger. Imagine that during negotiations for the Quarians to get their home back, the generally peaceful Geth suddenly attack the Quarian fleet, all because those reprogrammed Heretics revert back! Oh wouldn't that be a twist!

That especialy is exactly what I'm scared of. The Reaper!Geth are right there in the middle of our own friends. Alas.

I killed them because I don't want bioware to pull some deux ex machina with them in ME3

fuck help, I'll kill erry single reaper with the power of quicksave and regenerating health.

I destroyed them on all playthroughs. As Renegade because if they arrived at this logical decision to stand against me once, they would likely do so again at some point. As Paragon because killing their uniqueness and skewing their perception of the world to suit my purposes just seemed cruel.

I just wish this had been accounted to in the paragon/renegade points...both solutions are possible from both personalities, it's a matter of weighing the arguments and individual perspective. It's a dilemma, not a good/evil or hero/badass choice, if it is to be put into a points system, it ought at least ask for an explanation and judge our decision by that. In this thread alone we've seen loads of good paragon and renegade reasons to take both courses of action.

I blew them up. I'm a bit of a pyro, and why would I want the geth to have numbers? If the quarian/geth thing isn't sorted out the quarians would instigate them, and the geth would wipe them out. And with Tali as my love interest, that just wouldn't do.

I hacked, but I wonder, if you destroy them does that mean the Quarians get their homeworld back?

 Pages 1 2 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked