Sheogorath and Skyrim (Question for Clarity?) (Spoilers)

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Jyggalag seemed unsure of what the Champion became after taking the mantle of madness, "you will remain here mortal. Mortal? King? ......God? It seems uncertain. This realm is yours. Perhaps you will grow to your station. Fare thee well Sheogorath, Prince of Madness."

So Jyggalag seemed to think the Champion becoming a Daedra was possible, didn't the Champion effectively disappear canonically too? That could have been down to the Grey Cowl also.

AgentLampshade:
You know, I just want to know what happened to Jyggalag. It's been 200 years and he never once let anyone else know he's back?

The most commonly believed theory is that Jyggalag was reabsorbed into Sheo, when the CoC became Sheo.

Here is the theory explaining it - http://www.imperial-library.info/content/arden-sul

To sum it up, basically, even though Sheogorath and Jyggalag are separate entities, they are connected at a metaphysicial level, like how the front and back of a coin are two different things, yet still ONE thing.

When the Champion of Cyrodiil became Sheogorath, he became the front side of the coin, HOWEVER, the front side of a coin CANNOT exist without its back side, aka Jyggalag. In becoming Sho the CoC became both Sheo, and Jyggy, and thus, Jyggy is back to being sheo.

You cannot be one without being the other, just like how Akatosh and Lorkhan are separate entities, yet are also one super entity that cant exist without the other.

I forget, Was Sheograth the one you had to wait till level 30 in Skyrim to do the quest and get the badass armor or was it the Wabbajack?

Theoretically, there were MANY Champions of Cyrodill. One of which became Sheogorath; one of which was killed by the annoying Arena fanboy, who was secretly Cicero of the Dark Brotherhood. Yet another performed the Ritual of Purification before Cicero even became a member. While Oblivion explained a lot of Morrowind into one continuity through time warp, Skyrim does so with Oblivion through the fact that the Champion is so generic and unimportant to the grand scheme of things that there's no reason there wasn't a whole party of escapees that went off and did different things when the Oblivion Crisis was averted.

J Tyran:
Jyggalag seemed unsure of what the Champion became after taking the mantle of madness, "you will remain here mortal. Mortal? King? ......God? It seems uncertain. This realm is yours. Perhaps you will grow to your station. Fare thee well Sheogorath, Prince of Madness."

So Jyggalag seemed to think the Champion becoming a Daedra was possible, didn't the Champion effectively disappear canonically too? That could have been down to the Grey Cowl also.

And killed by Cicero. And other things buried in Skyrim errata. I buy into the theory that there were many Champions of Cyrodiil, just one became famous.

Nieroshai:

J Tyran:
Jyggalag seemed unsure of what the Champion became after taking the mantle of madness, "you will remain here mortal. Mortal? King? ......God? It seems uncertain. This realm is yours. Perhaps you will grow to your station. Fare thee well Sheogorath, Prince of Madness."

So Jyggalag seemed to think the Champion becoming a Daedra was possible, didn't the Champion effectively disappear canonically too? That could have been down to the Grey Cowl also.

And killed by Cicero. And other things buried in Skyrim errata. I buy into the theory that there were many Champions of Cyrodiil, just one became famous.

Cicero killing the Champion could also explain why the Champ appears and acts a lot more like Sheogorath. If Cicero killed him after took the mantle of madness he wouldn't die, he would be reabsorbed into Oblivion and be reborn. Possibly closer to the first Sheogorath.

SajuukKhar:

wombat_of_war:

and i think we have a winner. makes more sense that the character just choses to appear as people have always expected the mad god to look like which cuts down on the "why dont you look like him"questions and gets straight to to messing with peoples heads bit

one cannot CHOOSE to change his form after he has mantled someone.

Mantling is the process of "walk like them until they must walk like you". It is a hijacking and replacing of a being's very mythic self.

Mortal belief alters reality, and when one has convinced other that they are Sheogorath, one becomes Sheogorath in all forms.

There is no Champion of Cyrodiil to transform and puppet Sheogorath's form, there only is Sheogorath.

In my understanding of it, the appearance of Sheogorath is as he CHOOSES to appear to mortals. Being a Daedra he is not bound to the physical world and thus could choose to appear as a pineapple upside down cake if he so wished, just as Hermaeus Mora chooses to appear as a mass of tentacles instead of anything remotely human-looking. Sheogorath chooses his appearance to resemble a well-dressed elderly gentleman, perhaps because it surprises mortals the most and lulls them into madness easier, or perhaps because that's simply what he wants to appear as. Whatever the reasons, if we assume that the Hero of Kvatch becomes Sheogorath in his entirety then we can also assume that he or she will continue to appear as the old Sheogorath chose to appear, for the very same reasons. Whether the Hero was initially an elderly female Dunmer or a young, spry Nordic male doesn't matter, once they become Sheogorath they will no longer have the mortal notion of "genders" and "bodies" and will choose to show themselves as whatever they wish.

Now this is not contrary to the notion that the player's traits can be incorporated into Sheogorath's when the Hero of Kvatch "becomes" him. The Champion of Cyrodiil and Sheogorath are one and the same, you can choose to imagine this as Sheogorath reborn, or as the Hero having become the Madgod, either way works fine in my opinion.

I know this topic is long-dead, but it's something that I find really interesting and I'd love to continue to hear people's thoughts on it.

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