I am so sick of TF2 and Valve

I can't stand to play Team Fortress 2 any more. Why? Here are my reasons:

1. The updates
Every update which adds new weapons makes the game more unbalanced. It didn't used to be so bad when the weapons rewarded skill. The ambassador rewarded players who could aim by doing more damage on headshots. The kritzkreig made the ubercharge more versatile but gave up the invincibility and made the medic vulnerable while the charge happening. But then Valve started making weapons like the backburner, which has a very small drawback but still gives you increased damage as well as crits from behind. There's the enforcer which is literally a pure buff when used with the dead ringer. There's no downside when you use it with the dead ringer and a crit can kill 3 classes in 1 shot (correct me if I'm wrong there). The manmelter doesn't use ammo, can't be deflected and the projectile travels 50% faster. It can extinguish friendlies and you get crits for doing so. I liked TF2 back when the classes were balanced and when Valve didn't cater to the newbs who can't aim, communicate or use strategy. The sniper and scout aren't meant to be specifically anti-spy classes, yet for some reason the scout has mad milk which makes the cloak useless, and the sniper has jarate which too makes the cloak useless, and then gives the sniper free crits if he's using the bushwacka. How does that reflect what the sniper is meant to be: Powerful at long range, but fairly useless in melee combat at close range and vulnerable to spies. There's the axetinguisher which gives the pyro the ability to pretty much instakill most classes from close up. The Pomson 6000 doesn't use ammo, drains cloak and UBERCHARGE, and still does damage. How is that in any way balanced? All the engineer needs to do is spam around his buildings and spies can't even get close, even when using the invisibility watch. In my opinion any weapon which is added to the game shouldn't impact on the vanilla set, so that the vanilla set remains the best set to use; the unlockables are meant to be "side-grades" not buffs or game changing weapons.

2. Hats
I don't get it. People actually pay as much as $1500 in real money for unusual hats in TF2. It's a game for christ's sake, in a few years no-one will even play it and your fancy expensive hat will be worthless and unseen. What's worse is so much of the community thinks that hats are an important part of TF2. It's an online fps, not The Sims, how you look is completely irrelevant. Here's an idea, if you want to look nice then do it in real life where you actually get to keep the hat forever. What's worse is Valve seems to be as oblivious to this as the community. Rather than fix bugs or improve the hit detection, they focus on hats. I think that is a skewed and unprofessional philosophy.

3. The Mann-Co store and set bonuses
I shouldn't have to pay money to get a class bonus. People say the items are not DLC because everything comes in random drops, but in the entire time I've had TF2 I've never once been dropped a hat which enabled a set bonus. Why should some players have set bonuses (like increased speed or decreased decloak volume) which completely unbalance the game and then the unlucky players have to pay money just to even the playing field. This is another example of how unbalanced Team Fortress 2 has become. The Saharan spy when used with the dead ringer is the epitome of this problem.

4. Broken replays
Every update causes whatever replays you have to become completely useless. And sometimes they just don't work. A few days ago I made some great replays, but when I tried to render then, all I got were error codes. Upon further research I discovered that the error codes meant the replays were useless and unrecoverable. Also unless I'm mistaken and it's been fixed since I last checked, Valve still hasn't addressed the problem of the smoke covering the screen for replays as spy.

5. Terrible players
Here's my theory. When a game is first released all the hardcore fans get it. For a while the servers are full of mostly good players. Then over time the game becomes more mainstream and popular and more people get it. This causes the quality of the players in servers to be diluted. Eventually the good players start to get tired of the bad players and begin to leave. This results in an increase in the number of good players leaving causing a snowball effect resulting in mostly bad players remaining.

6. Bugs and hit detection
As previously mentioned, the hit detection in TF2 sucks. There are so many times when I get killed by players who manage to shoot me through walls, around corners and when I'm behind cover. Perhaps it's the antiquated source engine or maybe it's just the mess that is TF2. Regardless I hate it and it should have been addressed YEARS ago. A bug I experienced today was one I've not experienced before. I stepped of the edge of some steps in koth_harvers (the ones leading to the windows); It's a 1m drop and I was on full health, but for some reason I died instantly. I've done it hundreds without taking damage and it takes a fall of considerable height to actually die on full health in TF2. But for some reason I died instantly. Other bugs include Razorbacks that you can't see until you stab (something which will kill even the best spies), some weapons not spawning (it's a lot of fun when you try to pull out your melee weapon only to discover it didn't spawn and now you're dead), and clipping in walls.

7. Random crits
I don't even know why Valve thought it would be a good idea to put them in the game. Random crits do nothing but destabilise gameplay. There have been so many times when I should have won a battle but then I didn't because my opponent got a random crit and killed me. Some weapons really shouldn't random crit but they still do, one example would be the aforementioned bushwacka: All you have to do is throw Jarate on the person and you get crits, it really doesn't need random crits too.

Who else is feeling the same way? I'm well aware this is going to get trolled but I don't really care I just wanted to put the thoughts that have been going through my head for months into words.

It sounds to me that you're annoyed that Spy "seems" to be underpowered based on your comments, but it sounds a lot like confirmation bias.

For a minute I thought I was back on the WoW forums when whatever flavour-of-the-month-is-OP thread would come up, Ret Pally, Rogues with Fan of Knives, Hunters with Big Red Pet, Warriors with bladestorm or MS/Cleave, then Death Knights with.. everything they do.

Balancing a game is tricky, and if you play the game primarily from one perspective (say, the Spy) you're going to feel like all the other classes are overpowered when they counter you. I'm willing to bet that you have at least as many kills as you do "losing to random crits or overpowered weapons". If your victory to loss ratio is about 50/50 then the game is balanced.

Even as a "nemesis" of a particular class it does not mean you're meant to just be able to waltz up and kill them with impunity - that would be no fun at all (for either party).

The discussion about swapping the game over to a free to play model with purchased weapons and set bonuses is a topic for another time.

The discussion about universally bad players joining the game and driving off all the good players sounds like a Hipster suddenly not liking a band any more because you've heard of it and thus they're now sellouts or too mainstream. I'm not sure it holds water - sure there will be a wider player base, but the overall proportion of good to bad players remains broadly similar.

I'm a Free2Player. I'm sorry, but that is what I am. However, I practiced alot in the offline-mode before I hopped in the fray, so I could carry my own weight. I can only apologize if that isn't enough.

But honestly, is purchasing the game what sets skilled players apart from scrubs? And can't you become better by, you know, learning the ropes? Or is the skill you need something you're just born with, or rather achieve when you purchased the game?

Although I do agree with the hat-issue. Seeing Team Fortress 2's excellent visual design being abused like that is not a pretty sight. It's like back in Battlefield Heroes, there were loads of costumes and pieces that looked great put together, but of course, everyone just thought black nazi pirates where hilarious...


Every update which adds new weapons makes the game more unbalanced.

Balance is a small issue in public servers. With plyers of such varying skill levels, you really can't expect a small boost to whatever arbitrary weapon to make the difference. If your team's skill is higher than the enemy team's, you win. Balance is only an issue in competitive play, and even there the imbalanced weapons are usually banned.
How many overpowered weapons are there in the game? The pomson, the wrangler, the enforcer, and the...?? Considering there's dozens of weapons, that seems like a small lineup. And notice how they're only weapons for some of the most underused classes in competitive play. That should tell you something.

I don't get it. People actually pay as much as $1500 in real money for unusual hats in TF2. It's a game for christ's sake

You either don't understand how humanity works, or how economy works. Pick one. Still, how does this affect you? If you have no interest in hats or virtual items, then you don't need to buy any. But if you get a hat drop, you sell it for a lot. So if it's just a game "for christ's sake" for you, then this should actually help you get the things that do matter. Or if you get an unusual, sell it for 400$ and profit from it because you don't care.

I shouldn't have to pay money to get a class bonus.

Beyond the initial 10$ someone else spent to gift me the game (thanks again, A random person), I have never spent a single cent on this game and at the state I'm currently in I could easily afford all the sets in the game. In fact I have some on me already. And no, they don't imbalance the game. The bonuses are weak and people will usually use either the stock weapons or some other combination which is better.

Here's my theory. When a game is first released all the hardcore fans get it. For a while the servers are full of mostly good players.

When a game is released there will be the highest number of unskilled players, because they didn't have the time to adjust to the game yet. As people keep playing, their skill increases. This is normal and not like your theory at all. But anyway, there are servers that don't allow f2pers, there are also servers that are full of only tryhard veterans. If that's your thing, you can easily play on those.

There are so many times when I get killed by players who manage to shoot me through walls, around corners and when I'm behind cover.

That is in fact client-server lag. Not much you can do against it other than find a server with less lag or try and work around it.

I don't even know why Valve thought it would be a good idea to put them in the game.

This I actually agree with. The crit mechanics are okay, but random crits suck. Thankfully, there are lots of servers that turn off random crits. The thing to note here is that the TF2 community is so large that you'll always find a server to play on that will suit your needs.


1. The updates

Balancing a game is hard work. Weapons which are imbalanced are still getting patched to the state where they fit perfectly.

5. Terrible players

Do you play on public servers? If yes then you are not in the postion to speak about "good" or "bad" players. You are merely average, you don't play in a team (TF2 is a game with focus on teamplay), you are just joining a bunch of casuals for some casual play.

Do you play in a clan? Then you have nothing to complain about as long as you put a little effort in finding enemies at your level.

Your theory is bollocks.

Ehh... I stopped playing TF2 when the Man-Co Update came out (Well shortly after, I tried out some of the new items and then decided I didn't like where the game was heading (Having hats give actual gameplay benefits))

The updates the game gets are actually very good in my experience, they change certain items to get them at a more balanced state. One of the good examples of this is when they released the Dead Ringer, a lot of people figured out that they could become invincible if they used it and ran around all the ammo drops, it was then nerfed to get less charge from ammo and metal pickups.

Hats are fine, I never did like them and even more started dreading the amount of time Valve where spending on bringing out more hats, it's okay that people are spending money on hats (You can be pissed if they are spending your money...)

You don't need the set bonuses to play, in fact you don't need any unlocks to play (Note that up until I left about 90% of my loadout was still vanilla weapons with the 10% being a secondary weapon I hardly ever use. I did well because I could play well and had hundreds of hours of practice with the vanilla weapons since I started playing when there wasn't unlocks (Well there was the Pyro ones out. Which when they were released only the Axtinguisher was any good (They eventually buffed the Flaregun to being a decent sidegrade and then buffed it more to being better than the shotgun (At least for me since I got used to it since it was the first item I recieved... Through achievements!))

I haven't played TF2 much (If at all) since it became FTP but I never really had trouble with the quality of the players, mainly because I avoided INTANTRESPAWN/RTD/OMGBOOBS servers and instead went on a few familiar ones that had normal spawn times and sometimes disabled random crits.

Most "Hit through a wall" times (If not all) are you having crappy ping and so you are actually not behind the wall according to everyone elses veiw. Since the game uses the attackers screen to determine hits its why you get killed behind a wall and also why "Facestabs" happen. Using the attackers screen instead of the defenders is actually a good thing, it keeps gameplay smooth while also keeping hitboxes as small as possible. If you play games using the defenders screen (Like Global Agenda) the movements are very jittery and players with high ping are invincible (Because the game tries to render where they are on the attackers screen and when they do the defender has already moved away). Sure you won't get as many BS deaths but you get people that don't get harmed by your perfect shot because they aren't actually where you see them.

Random crits are awesome, I like them since they mean that not so good players can compete with better ones and also separate this from other FPS games. The only bad thing is that crit rate is equal to the amount of points you got in your life, meaning good players get more crits (Which keeps them doing good and keeps their crit rate going up) and engineers that are building sentry nests get high crit rates (Thus having a seemingly 100% crit rate when attacking spies with the wrench)

Ehh... I stopped playing TF2 when the Man-Co Update came out (Well shortly after, I tried out some of the new items and then decided I didn't like where the game was heading (Having hats give actual gameplay benefits))

They stopped doing that after the first set, they realized it was a pretty bad idea.

OT: I usually have times where I don't play TF2 for months, and play the hell out of it for a few weeks and then forget about it. I don't mind many of the changes Valve has made to the game, there are very few weapons in the game that are really obviously overpowered, and most of those came out recently and are probably going to get nerfed pretty soon. (Cept for the damn Enforcer, seriously.)

I do wish there was a Vanilla option in the options that just made all of the cosmetics and such invisible to the player or something. The art style has been getting pretty crazy, and while I like hats, sometimes I would like to play with them off.

You're the first person I've EVER heard complain about the backburner being op. If anything, you should complain about the degreaser being a straight buff of the flamethrower (which it is... and it's fucking godly XD).

Sometimes I fire up TF2 and notice some really stupid looking new hats and guns that really detract from the polished style the game originally had. And I do wish they had higher quality control at times. But then I remember that Valve and the Mann Co. store more or less paid for my overwhelming grad school debt, and that's something they could just as easily not done.

I rarely have time to play TF2, maybe an hour or two a month, but even with all the updates, I've never found the game unplayable or unenjoyable. I also welcome new people to the community and couldn't care less what they paid for the game. I don't wear hats, not even for a "set bonus" (and I made the Saharan Spy), I don't care about trading, I just play the game a bit and have some fun.

A wise cartoon cat once said "It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools, Sharky." Perhaps you should consider going back to TF2 on the 360, it's still in prime 2007 condition.

That was a really strange rant.

If you honestly can't stand playing a game anymore, isn't the simple solution to stop playing the game?

The previous posters already raised some good points so I don't feel like I need to say very much.

I have no idea why you have a problem with the hats. They're just there. People like them. It really doesn't affect you in the slightest. xD

Also, on behalf of all of The Escapist I am absolutely appalled at the very idea of expecting people to "troll" you. Shows what you really think of the fine upstanding members of The Escapist forums and exactly how open you are to contrary opinion.

So to you sir, I say GOOD DAY!

You made this exact same thread on the Steam forums, didn't you (I lurk there from time to time)? You could at least get rid of the "I'm well aware this is going to get trolled" part. We tend to not be as idiotic as SPUF users.

Anyway, I still like TF2 after all these years (started playing in October 2007). Yes some of the unlocks are unbalanced. Yes there's been an increase in clueless players ever since it went F2P. Yes it can be aggravating to be killed by a lucky crit rocket. In spite of these factors, the game is still a blast to play, particularly if you're on a team that knows what it's doing.

My biggest complaint right now is the intermittent crashes I've been experiencing ever since the Manniversary Update. Valve needs to fix that pronto.

I can't stand to play Team Fortress 2 any more. Why? Here are my reasons:

1. The updates

Stop whining. There's two options. Option A: Acquire those weapons as well. Option B: Play on servers that enforce vanilla weapons only.

There's no option where you whine and moan about it.

2. Hats

If they want to buy hats let them buy hats. It doesn't take away from your game, and that towering pillar makes their heads easier to shoot at.

3. The Mann-Co store and set bonuses

They do randomly drop. The thing about random drops is they're entirely random. I get shit drops too. But you don't see me whinging about it.

4. Broken replays

FRAPS your gameplay. I don't know why people even bother with the replay system. Far too complex. FRAPS is simple, hit the hotkey once to record, hit it again to stop recording, plug that file into Windows Movie Maker, and bam. Instant youtube video, just add large upload speed.

5. Terrible players

Oh boo fuckin' hoo. Cry a river, build a bridge, and get the fuck over it. Not everyone plays competitively. If you don't like those players you can play on servers that cater to competitive players.

No. Seriously. Get over it. Not everyone cares about their KDR. Some people play TF2 just to blow shit up. They don't care if they're terrible or not, they're having fun! How dare they have fun!?

6. Bugs and hit detection

The hit detection in TF2 is identical to that of CS:S. It's a common trait of all source games, and if you want to play it seriously you need to get used to it.

7. Random crits

More competitive player whining now. Again, play on a server that caters to competitive play. They have crits disabled, as well as most of the update weapons off.

Who else is feeling the same way? I'm well aware this is going to get trolled but I don't really care I just wanted to put the thoughts that have been going through my head for months into words.

All I see here is someone taking it far too seriously and whining about things they can EASILY solve. Don't like the noobs? Don't like the random crits? Don't like the update weapons? Find a server with these things disabled. It isn't hard, there's hundreds of them out there. Don't play on 32 man madness servers and bitch about the random crits.If you're going to play on such servers, adopt a "Fuck my KDR, I just want to blow shit up for the lulz" mindset.

That's your two options. Either find a server that caters to competitive play, or stop playing competitively and just blow shit up for the lulz. Pick one and stop whining. /Discussion

Oh god, this is going to get real ugly real fast.

See, you wouldn't have any of these problems if you had decided to get Duels of the Planeswalkers instead.

TF2 used to be great before it went F2P. Now hackers are more prevalent than ever being unable to stay gone for good. And to make things worse the community has degraded a lot since. Before I would almost never see a rude or disrespectful player or not funny mic spammers. Since it is impossible not to be cursed out by some 12 year old or have someone Rickrolling everyone via the mic.
It has gotten to the point I rarely boot it up. TF2 is still my favorite shooter of all time and one of my top 3 games. But since the free to play update the game has turned into a steaming pile of shit. A shambling corpse no longer resembling the beautiful game I once loved.

And your argument against Jarate is flawed. It along with the Shiv gives Snipers a fighting chance vs Spies. (shame they nerfed the Shiv. it did not need it) However I agree the Bushwacka is an abomination and should not have been made. Or @ least make its effect work only if the Jarate is applied via the Sydney Sleeper not just generic Jarate. Would make it a tad more skillful.

Guys, he's a troll, he or someone else posted THE SAME thing on Steam's TF2 Forum.
Just ignore him and move on.


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