Steam vs Origin (EULA, privacy and whatnot)

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Hello,

Is thee really much of a difference between Steam and Origin's EULA and privacy agreements. I was hoping that one could simple analyze their "Agreements" and see if there is much of difference between em.

Steam asks for permission before looking through your system.
Merely installing Origin opens your computer up for EA to look through (spyware).

I myself personally trust Gaben more than EA.

Why does it matter? it's the same corporate bullshit with different styles of language.

Ffs, Mircosoft and Google probably knows what kind of shit I've got on my computer, does origin or Steam knowing make any difference? doubt it, the EULA/privacy policy does not stop them performing checks.Why don't I say that laws stop crimes completely.

Pro tip: if you want your local data to be secured,encrypt it.

When Steam first came about it was quite invasive and gradually changed! People are against Origin because Steam has had a monopoly over digital distribution for years(not to mention the main reason people don't like it is because its EA).
I remember how frustrating it was having Steam when it started! Half-Life 2 was a nightmare to play, you had to be connected to the internet to play it and had to have steam (I know cos its Vavle).

Aircross:
Steam asks for permission before looking through your system.
Merely installing Origin opens your computer up for EA to look through (spyware).

I myself personally trust Gaben more than EA.

Got it in one. Steam's EULA, and Valve's privacy policy in general, does not have the broad privacy-killing clauses that Origin's does. As noted above, Steam also asks first. Origin doesn't. That's a huge difference.

mad825:
Why does it matter? it's the same corporate bullshit with different styles of language.

Ffs, Mircosoft and Google probably knows what kind of shit I've got on my computer, does origin or Steam knowing make any difference? doubt it, the EULA/privacy policy does not stop them performing checks.Why don't I say that laws stop crimes completely.

Pro tip: if you want your local data to be secured,encrypt it.

Think their lawyers would let them do it without putting it in the EULA and forcing people to agree to it? Think again. Even spyware has this shit in its license agreement.

evilneko:

Think their lawyers would let them do it without putting it in the EULA and forcing people to agree to it? Think again. Even spyware has this shit in its license agreement.

Why don't you think again? It's sure as hell not the first time it has happened especially for EA. So many of us put so much trust into software that we presume to be safe which in fact could quite as well be malicious.

Unless you like the spying age of the modern WWW, then you might as well be paranoid. I'll say it again, Why don't I say that laws stops crime completely? It doesn't, and we don't know that a crime has been committed until someone opens the box [schrodinger's cat].

Just to throw some material into the discussion Here's Valve's privacy policy

"Valve® respects the privacy of its online visitors and users of its products. Valve recognizes the importance of protecting any information collected from users and has adopted this privacy policy that guides how Valve gathers, stores, and uses information from the use of Valve products and online sites by users.

This policy is current as of its last revision date. However, please note that this policy may be amended from time to time to reflect changes and additions to the privacy policy. Please check back for the most current version before relying on any of the provisions in this privacy policy.

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.

"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.

Valve may use customer contact information provided by users to send information about Valve, including news about product updates, contests, events, and other promotional materials, but only if the users agree to receive such communications. Except in the cases described below, Valve will not share personally identifiable information with any third party unless the user agrees to such disclosure in advance. "Personally identifiable information" consists of a user's name, email address, physical address, or other data about the user that enables the recipient to personally identify the user. While Valve collects personally identifiable information on a voluntary basis, for certain products and online sites, Valve's collection of personally identifiable information may be a requirement for access to the product or site. Personally identifiable information will be processed and stored by Valve in databases situated in the United States. Valve may allow third parties performing services under contract with Valve to access stored information but such access shall only be to the extent necessary to provide those services. In those instances, the third party will be bound by the terms of this privacy policy. In some situations, personally identifiable information you input in connection with Steam may be made available to other users of Steam. For example, during registration of Steam, Valve collects a user's email address and nickname, and at the user's option, first and last name. Some of this information is searchable and available to other users within Steam. Valve has no obligation to keep the privacy of personally identifiable information that a user makes available to other users via Steam or other Valve software, such as in multiplayer or other public functions.

Personally identifiable information protected under this privacy policy and collected from users may be done in conjunction with associates under agreement with Valve. If an associate of Valve is collecting such personally identifiable information within one of our products or online sites, Valve will make users aware of this at the time the information is gathered. For example, product registration data for Half-Life is collected by Sierra Entertainment. If a user does not want to provide this information, the user may choose to opt out of providing this information. Additionally, if providing the information is a requirement of usage, the user may decline to use that particular service or product. When possible, Valve will make a reasonable effort to direct users to the privacy polices of these associates. Valve's privacy policy does not extend to associates of Valve.

Furthermore, external websites and companies with links to and from Valve's online sites and products may collect personal information about users. Valve's privacy policy does not extend to these external websites and companies. Please refer directly to these companies and websites regarding their privacy policies.

Valve may release personally identifiable information to comply with court orders or laws that require us to disclose such information"

And here's EA privacy policy

"2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.
EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and
shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly.
Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA
would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it
ever use spyware or install spyware on users' machines. We and agents acting
37683v1
on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your
consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to
enforce EA's legal rights.
In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally
identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our
products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of
software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as
communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.
As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as
improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise
enhancing your user experience.
This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in
connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used,
stored and transmitted in accordance with EA's Privacy Policy located at
www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is
inconsistent with the terms of EA's Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy shall control."

I have to admit, both look vague and non-threatening, of course that might be due to a good lawyer.

i don't mind either or think of origin as the devil incarnate some make it out to be

survivor686:
I have to admit, both look vague and non-threatening, of course that might be due to a good lawyer.

Yes, but we like Steam, so it's good.

We hate EA, so Origin is bad.

survivor686:
I have to admit, both look vague and non-threatening, of course that might be due to a good lawyer.

No, no, look again. EA's is dripping with evil toxins and black magic.

Pfft.

I have no problem with the EA Privacy Policy, the original wording was vague, and did mention that EA could transmit non-identifying information to third parties, after the ensuing shit-storm they re-wrote the agreement to its current form.

Of course I always, ALWAYS check the EULA to see if it has changed before I agree to an update. You have a legal right to continue to use the service with your original agreement.

octafish:

I have no problem with the EA Privacy Policy, the original wording was vague, and did mention that EA could transmit non-identifying information to third parties, after the ensuing shit-storm they re-wrote the agreement to its current form.

A shame most people are insisting it as though the original wording still applies.

Well, I can't make an argument regarding the EULAs of either service since I didn't read 'em, nor would I actually understand any of it (understanding them means understanding the legal implications)

But in my opinion there are 2 major reasons people (me included) prefer Steam over Origin

1) People hate bloatware, and since people already have (in some cases quite massive) game libraries on Steam, if they have to choose, they will automatically choose Steam

2)EA has a history of being MAJOR dicks, Valve does not. In fact Valve's reputation is some of the best in the videogame industry. This trigger's the "siding with the lesser dick" instinct in people, since lesser dick means lesser chance of getting screwed over.(yeah, it's so late that it's early, so here come the bad jokes)

Let's not forget that EA had the nerve to have a "can't sue us" policy.

I mean really, how much more defensive can you get? If you have nothing to fear, then you won't need a "can't sue us" policy.

Aircross:
Let's not forget that EA had the nerve to have a "can't sue us" policy.

I mean really, how much more defensive can you get? If you have nothing to fear, then you won't need a "can't sue us" policy.

You're going to see more and more of that, because it's become permissable. Two of the three console producers have also done it.

But seriously, are you really going to go with "only guilty people have something to hide?"

Aircross:
Let's not forget that EA had the nerve to have a "can't sue us" policy.

I mean really, how much more defensive can you get? If you have nothing to fear, then you won't need a "can't sue us" policy.

You can still sue EA. You just can't bandwagon onto a class-action lawsuit. The only person that benefits from a class-action is the lawyer.

That said, the general idea is that Valve makes an effort to make people like them. They're two years ahead of EA on their digital distribution platform and it works great.

EA's Origin is forced on us, they blame valve for their own greed, and their digital distribution platform is still buggy. Not only that, but EA permabans you from games arbitrarily, and you're at the mercy of a company with horrid reputation.

The worst Valve will ever do to you is ban you from their forums and prevent you from joining VAC-protected multiplayer servers. The worst EA has ever done is permaban people and lock them out of their games forever because their forum's mod-bot slipped up.

Zachary Amaranth:

octafish:

I have no problem with the EA Privacy Policy, the original wording was vague, and did mention that EA could transmit non-identifying information to third parties, after the ensuing shit-storm they re-wrote the agreement to its current form.

A shame most people are insisting it as though the original wording still applies.

The fact that they would even try to pull crap like that is what pisses me off. Sure they changed it, but that won't stop them from actually collecting all the data they want, until someone catches them and the whole legal process runs its course.

At that point, they'll easily be able to cover their legal fees with the personal info they've sold to 3rd parties.

Absolutionis:
You can still sue EA. You just can't bandwagon onto a class-action lawsuit. The only person that benefits from a class-action is the lawyer

You can't exactly fight a multi billion dollar corporation by yourself. Unless you've got lots of money, something which the average consumer does not, it's impossible. Since corporations are notorious for abusing consumer rights, class action lawsuits are a necessity to keep them in line.

Digital distribution is a direct attack on consumer rights since it gives companies even more control over how you play your games. Origin is much more upfront with its policies and is just another attempt by a major company to exert more control over the product their selling.

Zachary Amaranth:

Aircross:
Let's not forget that EA had the nerve to have a "can't sue us" policy.

I mean really, how much more defensive can you get? If you have nothing to fear, then you won't need a "can't sue us" policy.

You're going to see more and more of that, because it's become permissable. Two of the three console producers have also done it.

But seriously, are you really going to go with "only guilty people have something to hide?"

I agree, this is the U.S. we're talking about, where people sue people over really, really, really stupid things. They even win sometimes. A "can't sue us" policy just makes sense in such an environment, as abusive as it is for users.

I despise Origin for the same reason I despise Silverlight and the .NET framework: it's just not f***ing necessary.

In all three cases, there was already something that did the job perfectly well (usually better) and whose only "flaw" (at least in the eyes of the knockoff artist) was that they didn't make it. So they go and create a buggy, poorly optimized, poorly laid out version of it that installs parts of itself to twenty different folders just to clutter up my file system, and whose only real purpose is to make me install another piece of bullshit to run in the background and eat its little slice of my resources.

I know full well that EA pulled the overt BS from its licensing agreement, and that was enough to get me to buy BF3... but only because I was desperate to justify it. Even with Origin already installed, they are not selling me ME3 or anything else with it.

*EDIT* Double post.

Palmerama:
I remember how frustrating it was having Steam when it started! Half-Life 2 was a nightmare to play, you had to be connected to the internet to play it and had to have steam (I know cos its Vavle).

....Isn't that still applicable? I know third party launches in offline, but I thought it had to be connected for Valve's proprietary titles.

Aircross:
Steam asks for permission before looking through your system.
Merely installing Origin opens your computer up for EA to look through (spyware).

I myself personally trust Gaben more than EA.

Well EA is a bit nicer about it than before.
Taken from Origin's EULA:
EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly. Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it ever use spyware or install spyware on users' machines.

From what I understand, EA fixed up their EULA when the Germans screamed at them, but it still steals information from you without consent. At least Steam asks politely first.

But, here's the difference that I care about:

Valve is cool and has never done anything to piss me off. Sure their co-op experiences are seriously lacking in replayability, but at least they don't really try to screw with their customers. Also Steam is the most convenient thing that has ever happened to my PC gaming habits.

EA... umm... yeah. Does anything else need to be said? These guys are MASSIVE wankers that have done enough to piss me off that i've pretty much decided never to buy anything from them again. Origin being spyware and making ME3 require it pretty much is the last straw.

So yeah... even if EA had the best EULA in the world, they are still assholes who I want nothing to do with.

I think that apart from EA's spyware debacle, people prefer Steam over Origin for several reasons,

1. Valve has a long history of being nice and friendly to their costumers, EA DOES NOT.

2. As a result, people trust Valve more

3. Tieing in to point two, Valve has more of a trustworthy, 'small company' kind of feel to it, EA is viewed as a big evil faceless money munching corporation.

4. Steam works fairly well and is convienent, initial issues aside, and actually has some very sweet deals and discounts. Even if Origin worked well or whatever, they are still run by EA. Who are, well to be frank, dicks.

I'm sure there's more, but I just cant think of them yet.

octafish:

survivor686:
I have to admit, both look vague and non-threatening, of course that might be due to a good lawyer.

No, no, look again. EA's is dripping with evil toxins and black magic.

Pfft.

I have no problem with the EA Privacy Policy, the original wording was vague, and did mention that EA could transmit non-identifying information to third parties, after the ensuing shit-storm they re-wrote the agreement to its current form.

Of course I always, ALWAYS check the EULA to see if it has changed before I agree to an update. You have a legal right to continue to use the service with your original agreement.

EA's basically gives them the right to look at anything they want on your computer.

Valve's...doesn't.

The non-personally identifiable information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.

Palmerama:
When Steam first came about it was quite invasive and gradually changed! People are against Origin because Steam has had a monopoly over digital distribution for years(not to mention the main reason people don't like it is because its EA).
I remember how frustrating it was having Steam when it started! Half-Life 2 was a nightmare to play, you had to be connected to the internet to play it and had to have steam (I know cos its Vavle).

You don't know what a monopoly is do you?

I've got a question. Why is it that when these discussion pop up people talk like we should all be jumping ship to Origin as if it's the second coming of Raptor Jesus? Steam does what I want it to do and does it well. I don't see a need for Origin, why in god's name do I need two digital distribution platforms on my computer? Especially when Origin isn't selling any games I want or that I don't already have on Steam.

The reason I like Steam and won't use Origin has nothing to do with their EULAs, it's because of the reputation that EA has built with me personally. Specifically, many EA games I've bought in the last few years have irritated me with DRM and advertisement nagging, like being forced to sit through an extra load screen so they can tell me about DLC.

I haven't ever had a problem launching my games due to Steam, in years of use, but I've had DRM issues with EA games like the game freezing because it can't contact the DRM server.

So, by making Origin "spyware" EA is just helping to make a decision I should have already made a while ago, stop buying games from them. Pulling their games off steam and requiring Origin makes it easy to let them go.

KeyMaster45:
I've got a question. Why is it that when these discussion pop up people talk like we should all be jumping ship to Origin as if it's the second coming of Raptor Jesus? Steam does what I want it to do and does it well. I don't see a need for Origin, why in god's name do I need two digital distribution platforms on my computer? Especially when Origin isn't selling any games I want or that I don't already have on Steam.

The only reason to use Origin is if you want to play the various games that require the service. The store experience might, one day, make it worth the trouble to install just to shop around but as it stands, if you don't want to play Star Wars or Battlefield, you probably don't need Origins at the moment.

Thus, since I play Battlefield on a console (because my friends play on console), and because I have no interest in MMO's at this point, I see no reason to install Origin.

Eclectic Dreck:

KeyMaster45:
I've got a question. Why is it that when these discussion pop up people talk like we should all be jumping ship to Origin as if it's the second coming of Raptor Jesus? Steam does what I want it to do and does it well. I don't see a need for Origin, why in god's name do I need two digital distribution platforms on my computer? Especially when Origin isn't selling any games I want or that I don't already have on Steam.

The only reason to use Origin is if you want to play the various games that require the service. The store experience might, one day, make it worth the trouble to install just to shop around but as it stands, if you don't want to play Star Wars or Battlefield, you probably don't need Origins at the moment.

The Star Wars MMO doesn't require origin to play it, unless of course one were to buy it digitally, then you're forced to use it. It does ask during installation (I say ask but it really is this fucked up trick to get less attentive users to install and sign up for origin) but I just laughed and hit "No".

its just the latest version of their download manager. personally i dont see it as much of a threat since the huge stunk that was kicked up when origin was first released

I'm a bit paranoid of scary governments, with people making things like Rule of Rose illegal in Europe, oh so many other games being banned in Australia. And almost everything under the sun made illegal in Germany. The SOPA issue. And such and such. But not enough so that I'm actually truly worried about some people knowing that I'm doing on my computer. Trolls and people who would send malware, yes. But I haven't seen too many consequences. And I fear the snooping more of internet trolls than I do companies. I've seen what internet trolls can do, steal youtube accounts and post personally defaming things, delete videos, send you malware. They can definitely do more than spam you with gore pictures once they find out you once posted on a furry fandom board.

Companies don't have quite such a horrible track record. Surprisingly enough. We may reach that stage, but until that time comes, I don't really need anonymity. I'm enough of an attention whore that I don't really care if most people know personal details about me if they're not planning to elaborately use it against me. In a lot of case, people just don't care. Not unless someone is a hardcore troll and has latched onto you, and wants material to publicly humiliate you. Or as the trolls would put it, finding your "docs".

Most of the times companies want to snoop for information about you so that they know what you like and what people in general want to buy. Most of the time trolls want to do it so that they can do as much damage to you as a person as is possible over the internet.

Rocket Taco:
I despise Origin for the same reason I despise Silverlight and the .NET framework: it's just not f***ing necessary.

In all three cases, there was already something that did the job perfectly well (usually better) and whose only "flaw" (at least in the eyes of the knockoff artist) was that they didn't make it. So they go and create a buggy, poorly optimized, poorly laid out version of it that installs parts of itself to twenty different folders just to clutter up my file system, and whose only real purpose is to make me install another piece of bullshit to run in the background and eat its little slice of my resources.

I know full well that EA pulled the overt BS from its licensing agreement, and that was enough to get me to buy BF3... but only because I was desperate to justify it. Even with Origin already installed, they are not selling me ME3 or anything else with it.

Luckily I learned from using origin during the BF3 beta. No ME3 money from me either.

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