Do you like the anthropomorph races?
Yes
52.1% (424)
52.1% (424)
No
23.1% (188)
23.1% (188)
Don't really care
24.1% (196)
24.1% (196)
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Poll: Anyone else hate the Skyrim animal races?

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Don't forget when the Lore and history of these games came about it was in the earlier days of fantasy gaming, if you look at the lore there are a lot of other beast races that we havn't seen as well, some that sound even more farfetched than the ones we have seen!

To be honest I don't mind them... The races are linked to personalities, which makes it easier to build an expectation from the characters, which also makes it easier for the game to trick you into liking or disliking certain characters, which allows for easier dislocation of expectation!

The only think I don't like about the beast races is playing as them... but mostly that is becaus I don't like a character with a tail! Other than that I don't mind them at all!

Argonians and Kahjiit are mah bros yo, don't u b dissin mah bros...

Nah but seriously I like the beast races and they are both interesting parts of the elder scrolls lore.

Plus the kahjiit in skyrim have a fucking sexy voice.

I will admit a few things.
I wish they looked a bit more beastlike, so not regular human models with scaly/furry textures. I thought the head models in Skyrim looked much more interesting and cool than the ones in Oblivion though. Of course Morrowind at least gave them different feat.
I also think it looks pretty silly to see them in the 'regular' human clothes as well (although that is true for orcs too).

That being said, lizard-folk are awesome, and anyone who says otherwise is just incorrect :P

Fiz_The_Toaster:

steampro:
I've got nothing against Argonians... But those backstabbing, thieving, murdering, drugsmuggling Kahjiit on the other hand.

Hey now, I take offense to that....my Khajiit hasn't smuggled any drugs thank you. You're a Nord aren't you?

I am infact an Imperial and every Khajiit I have come across sold Skooma, tried to kill me or was fighting an innocent person.

I'm suddenly reminded of an old thread here WAAyyy back about someone complaining that the skyrim Elves didn't look human enough like J. R. R. Tolkein portrays them, no matter how many times people said told him this was a different lore and more importantly,to grow a suspension of belief and allow designers to be creative for once and don't have to follow the formula of hippy superior elves, mining greedy dwarves and humans who hog the spotlight.

And with that rant over, Yes I do like the beast races, all the way from Morrowind. My brother always plays as an argonian with a bent for comedic sociopathy and though my main is an altmer war mage, playing as a prejudiced against Khajit healer/trader make for fun roleplaying.
And I like meeting them around the world. They add some much needed variety in the NPC's I meet even if they are such a minority.

And best of all, they look much better in comparison to Oblivion *shudder*

steampro:

Fiz_The_Toaster:

steampro:
I've got nothing against Argonians... But those backstabbing, thieving, murdering, drugsmuggling Kahjiit on the other hand.

Hey now, I take offense to that....my Khajiit hasn't smuggled any drugs thank you. You're a Nord aren't you?

I am infact an Imperial and every Khajiit I have come across sold Skooma, tried to kill me or was fighting an innocent person.

Hmm... I was sold Skooma once by some random person, but he was really shady about it so I didn't bother with him. Mainly because I was on my way to a thief mission and didn't feel like stopping and chatting.

Other than that, I haven't really seen anything like that, but I have gotta a lot of grief from the Imperials and the Thalmor, which I think is just about the norm for everyone.

Lilani:

Loop Stricken:

Lilani:
I'm more willing to let them slide on the assumption that they are simply other sentient races who evolved under slightly different conditions and ended up with slightly different physical traits, like the way we did. Yeah the orcs probably should be more mangled, and no specific reasons are given for why the elves look the way they do, but at least they aren't literally humans crossed with animals. There is absolutely no reason for them to have just evolved that way, at least without a huge "experiments gone wrong" storyline.

This world does not run on science, it runs on magic.
The various species didn't evolve. It was all magic. That's your reasoning.

The Dwemer tried science. To say it didn't go down well would be an understatement.

But that's not good enough for me! I like magic, but I also like a little reason behind it. It needs to make sense. It can't just be the glue they stick on anything to make it fit right.

Uuh, yes it can. It totally can. That's the entire point of magic. Magic could be pretty well described as anything that cannot possibly be explained logically with science.

Also to note, they tried the whole backwards joints thing in Morrowind. It didn't really go down well. I don't know if they were tripping on acid or what at the time, but it just turned out horrible.

Also, I'd just like you to know, completely parallel to this argument, have you ever read up on the birthing cycle of the Kahjiit? It's totally fucked up. Basically, depending on the cycle of the moon in which they have their baby, the child can come out as anything between essentially an anime cat-girl (almost human/mer looking), to a big sabre-toothed cat mount.
Yes that's right, depending on the moon cycles you could either have a regular cat-person, or a big mentally retarded cat-horse-thing.

I enjoy the Khajiit, but the Argonians are... unsuited for skyrim. Not enough open water to justify playing them for the water breathing (which i did in Oblivion), and nobody uses poison. Similar issue with the dark elf. 50% fire resistance was fine in Oblivion, where everybody and their brother used it, but in Skyrim, everything that ever existed ever uses ICE magic.

So, to answer the question in the poll: I both like and dislike the beast races in Skyrim.

I like them, although it'd be nice to go back to the Morrowind leg design for the Khajiit.

As for the evolutionary argument, this is a world full of weird shit and magic. I'd imagine it takes more of a back seat.

Malyc:
I enjoy the Khajiit, but the Argonians are... unsuited for skyrim. Not enough open water to justify playing them for the water breathing (which i did in Oblivion), and nobody uses poison. Similar issue with the dark elf. 50% fire resistance was fine in Oblivion, where everybody and their brother used it, but in Skyrim, everything that ever existed ever uses ICE magic.

I've come across a lot of mages that use (some very fucking powerful) fire magic.

I have never played as an anthropomorphic in a TES game, but I don't hate them.

I'm quite fond of the Argonians in Skyrim. Hence why I took one look at the list of races and said "Heck yeah, I'm gonna be a freakin' awesome Lizard-man". And thus, I was. I'm playing Skyrim to role-play and I don't see why I'd force myself to be a human when I could be something far more entertaining. I even think they look pretty good, I prefer looking at them then to any given Nord.

The Khajit...well, I'm not too bothered about them. They're alright I guess.

Zhukov:

Note to self: Do not run a google image search for "argonian" with safesearch turned off. Yeesh.

I expected worse, but I see your point.

OT. I like the animal races, I didn't at first, I thought they looked silly and didn't really fit within any of the lore. But they grew on me and now I don't play anything else.

Who wants to be another boring elf or slightly varied human anyway?

Well I am all about the Khajitt but then again I am a furry and so am biased!

Wardy

Char-Nobyl:

Lilani:
Why are the changes in physiology restricted to the head and skin? Why aren't their joints reversed like animals legs?

Because nothing that walks on two legs has back-canted legs for a reason. They burn ungodly amounts of energy and they're basically pointless without a second pair to give you the speed advantage they're supposed to grant.

DressedInRags:
And yes, they used to have animal-like leg joints, until someone realised that legs like that would make nary a lick of sense for an upright creature because they wouldn't support their weight.

I am going to go out on a limb here and assume you have never seen a carnivorous dinosaur.


From where I am sitting those kinds of legs look pretty functional for a two legged animal. The real reason why they changed the legs is because they didn't want to make entierly separate armor/clothing variants for the beast races, they even came out and said this. You guys don't have to defend their lazy art design, they were happy admitting to it. You will also notice the werewolves have the legs the beast people should, which is relevant to what I just said because you conveniently don't wear anything in werewolf form haha.

DressedInRags:
As for the whole "Furry fantasy" thing, if you have difficulty seeing them in a non-sexualised light then that's your problem, not the developers.

I am also pretty sure OP wasn't saying they were sexy. The original furry comment was directed at the fact that Bethesda put as much effort (or lack there of) into the beast races as someone trying to fulfill a superficial sexual fantasy. People who make these kinds of these for that reason don't put any consideration into their design, they just attach animal heads to human bodies to meet their need quickly and easily. And so you get things like the Kahjiit and Argonians with perfect cookie cutter human shapes, rather then (the much better designed) werewolves in skyrim.

Loop Stricken:

Lilani:
I mean really, people who are EXACTLY like regular people but with animal hides and fur? REALLY? What is the evolutionary advantage to that? Why are the changes in physiology restricted to the head and skin? Why aren't their joints reversed like animals legs? Why aren't they more muscular, or more svelt, or taller or shorter or hunchback? It makes absolutely no sense. It's like they just said "Hurr derp, let's stick some random animal heads on our people and call it a day!"

Because this world isn't built on science, it's built on magic. Hence the gods, the dragons, the undead and ZE MAGICKS!

My first character was an Argonian warrior, tearing crap up with his mighty daedric mace.

That's kind of the main point right there. Complaining about how the races suck is fine, but complaining about the lack of realism in their theoretical evolution while simultaneously battling Dragons with demonic weaponry? Just.... No.

Argonians and Khajit had more animal-like legs in Morrowind, however that required a separate skeleton and animations.

If you don't like the aesthetic design, then why not try and find a modder to help you create 'better' argonians/khajit?

I might actually download a mod like that

Two things get to me, lizard women with boobs, and the cat people look like paper-mache dolls. I wanted to make a cat-girl assassin, but it just wasn't happening, so went with a red guard instead.

I loved playing a Khajiit, I had night vision and was less crap at sneaking than normal, I RP'd him like Cat from Red Dwarf

xPixelatedx:
I am going to go out on a limb here and assume you have never seen a carnivorous dinosaur.


From where I am sitting those kinds of legs look pretty functional for a two legged animal.

Alright, I'm not going to dwell the problems with using a video entitled 'Gigantosaurus' as evidence of the effectiveness of back-canted legs, nor that you're citing a CGI dinosaur made for a sci-fi show for evidence in an argument, nor even the fact that the video itself neatly condenses everything that's wrong with half the videos on Youtube (random video clips with someone else's music taste spliced over it).

Moving past those, you'll note that there was another half to my argument, specifically the "uses ungodly amounts of energy" part. How much does a creature with back-canted legs have to eat per day just to sustain normal activity? I mentioned neanderthals earlier, and that was one of their big issues: they were only slightly bigger than the average homo sapien, but required significantly more food as a result. And when you're almost exclusively a carnivore, a fast-breeding competitor can literally eat you to extinction.

Also note the gigantic tail. See, that's the thing about having back-canted legs: they aren't very good at keeping things that stand upright balanced. The T. Rex was originally thought to walk essentially upright, with the tail dragging behind it, but as it turns out, that sort of thing causes horrific joint damage over time. The gigantic tail was a counterweight to make up for the fact that you don't have forelegs to keep yourself balanced. You can't take one pair of legs off a table and still expect it to hold itself up.

Take a look at the body structure of everything bipedal with back-canted legs. Notice a pattern? Heavy front, counterweight in back, and constantly with their back parallel to the ground? There's a reason for that, and it's simple: back-canted legs provide shit balance for bipedal creatures. Every seen someone get taken down by hitting them behind the knees? Dinosaurs had all their dangerous bits jutting a fair distance in front of their legs, so it didn't matter for them, but put those joints on something bipedal that walks upright, and you've got an animal that crumbles like a house of cards if you kick them in the shin.

Or push them anywhere, really. If you've ever been shoved when your knees were locked, try and remember how you responded. Was it by moving your legs/joints in ways that would be impossible if your knees faced the other way? Probably. You can't brace yourself when your feet are kicking up in front of you while you topple over.

xPixelatedx:
The real reason why they changed the legs is because they didn't want to make entierly separate armor/clothing variants for the beast races. They even came out and said this. You guys don't have to defend their lazy art design, they were happy admitting to it.

Okay...so they made the right choice for the wrong reasons. I've no problem with that. The end result is still the same.

Besides, it's less about defending Bethesda's aesthetic choices and more about dismantling OP's complaints. That's the fun part for me.

I like them but I prefer how they appeared in Morrowind in terms of physiology, they were much more unique. Oblivion changed that and they've apparently chosen to keep it for Skyrim and presumably the rest of the series. Their facial structure is better than before though, they just need to stand out a bit more than the man and mer races.

But that's my big issue with Skyrim now that I've played Morrowind: it's far too simple. There's less pressure placed on what sort of character you want to be and how you're limited by your choice. Now you can be a hulking tank of a barbarian Nord and still succeed in the thief, assassin and mage quest lines with little difficulty. You don't even have the same guild structure, you're either on par with everyone else or you're on top, which kind of takes out the importance of levelling skills specific to that guild and being actually good at your profession. There's more of how Skyrim is too simple but I think this is enough for now.

Char-Nobyl:

Moving past those, you'll note that there was another half to my argument, specifically the "uses ungodly amounts of energy" part. How much does a creature with back-canted legs have to eat per day just to sustain normal activity? I mentioned neanderthals earlier, and that was one of their big issues: they were only slightly bigger than the average homo sapien, but required significantly more food as a result. And when you're almost exclusively a carnivore, a fast-breeding competitor can literally eat you to extinction.

Also note the gigantic tail. See, that's the thing about having back-canted legs: they aren't very good at keeping things that stand upright balanced. etc.

I was just showing an example of how those legs could work, I did not say that the beast races should necessarily become dinosaurs. I also don't think it's right to assume they would need to meet the exact same requirements to have two legs like that, given that dinosaurs were creatures of gargantuan mass.
Here is a better video.

I am actually surprised that the dog is able to even hop and skip, and dogs aren't even designed to do this. I would have loved the Kahjiit to be a bit more like this (technically they were in morrowind). I do however acknowledge that an animal who has legs and walks like this probably would not be able to outright run this way. But if their overall body design is still very animal like, I don't see why they can't get on all fours and floor-it. Technically speaking, if that dog was somehow given working front legs, it could still walk upright if it wanted to, but then it would also be able to run alongside any other dog on all fours. That would have been a good design for Kahjiits.

they add diversity to a genera that needs it, seirusly, how many more RPGs do we need with JUST the human/elf/dwarf trio, screw that, gimme more races, fun races, the less they look like the 'big 3' the better.

also, your over thinking it

like

Lilani:
In exploring Skyrim this last week, I discovered something. I really, really hate the animal races, or anthropomorphs or whatever you want to call them. Conceptually and aesthetically. First of all, they make little sense as a race. I mean really, people who are EXACTLY like regular people but with animal hides and fur? REALLY? What is the evolutionary advantage to that? Why are the changes in physiology restricted to the head and skin? Why aren't their joints reversed like animals legs? Why aren't they more muscular, or more svelt, or taller or shorter or hunchback? It makes absolutely no sense. It's like they just said "Hurr derp, let's stick some random animal heads on our people and call it a day!"

Then they're just ugly and wreak of laziness in design. Because once you think about it, the reason their physiology is the same as regular people is obvious. If their bodies are the same, the same animations and scripts can be used to make them move can be the same as well. And then I just feel awkward looking at them. They're like a furry's wet dream come alive.

So please, somebody tell me I'm not the only one who really can't stand these things?

it dates back to older Elder scrolls games when they had to keep them roughly the same(disk space and such)

To be fair they did rework them a bit in Skyrim to make them diffident but id imagine they cant go too far due to fan boy rage and having to rework every clothing item(basically 4x as much work).
although i wish they did seeing my charter's tale pokes though the nightingale armor

That's what happens when you canonize different humanoid species and their appearances in 1993.

Anyways, you've probably inspired a modder to make them more animalistic, so give it a bit of time.

The beast races are very interesting, but only when you read into their lore and culture. Otherwise they're just furry bait, and I HATED them before I started reading all into Elder Scrolls lore.

The TES universe have these god-things, the Aedra, they're enititys of creation except they're technically mortal. If they want to make some sort of magical lizard race THEY DO IT BECAUSE SHUT UP I DO WHAT I WANT.
The Daedra are their opposites being immortal except all they can do is like, destroy and change things.

There is a particular type of Aedra, Hist Trees.
Sentient god trees.
And some lizards ate the sap of this tree once and tada:
http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=conceptart§ion=15262
They become sentient and build a culture around these trees,
In fact as I understand it Argonians are still just lizards
In that these human lizard people have sex and then they poop out little tiny salamanders
And as a child they have to eat hist sap to grow up and become just like the abomination that is their daddy
The more hist the more human, the less hist the less human.
So maybe that's how the Geico Gecko was born
He had like a drop of the sap.

http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=conceptart§ion=15266
Then you have these cat people where their race is dependent on moon cycles,
Between the two moons and the different phases they are in different types of Khajiit are born.
So like, they can be anything from talking kitty things about the size of house cats
To like weeaboos
To Furrys
To GIANT FUCKING ELEPHANT SIZE MONSTER CATS, imagine having THAT come out of your wife.
CONGRATULATIONS MITTENS
IT'S FOUR TIMES BIGGER THAN YOU
Also your wife is dead

And it's never directly explained how they came to be,
But like, the Weeaboo version of Khajiit are supposed to look like Wood Elves
Except they have tails and stupid cat ears or something
But Wood Elves LOOVE to eat hem some Khajiit because they are crazy cannibal people
And Moon Sugar is like the best marinade ever
So you're finger lickin'-good when you eat it all your life because for some reason your race is resistant to it.
So the Khajiit don't talk about it.
And the Wood Elves don't talk about it.
And everyone just gets pissed when mentioned.

Now, I ain't saying this is ever stated anywhere, but this sounds mighty suspicious to me.
But Wood Elves have this innate ability where if a group of them came together
And sacrifice a plant or something to some blood god
Or maybe a chloroplast god
And perform the Rite of the Wild Hunt
That group would all turn into beast-things and they normally go on murderaperampages
And after that they all have a blood-orgy and then kill each other.
Sometimes.

My disdain from them stems from morrowind when they could not wear armour in certain slots because of their body shapes. They did remove this in Oblivion, but my dislike never really went away.
It's been a while, but if i recall correctly, khajit in morrowind did have reversed joints in their legs (they walked funny at least). They certainly didn't share a base character model with the other races.

I don't particularly hate them, but I don't like the way people create a 'nonhuman' race by taking a human, giving it fur and whacking an animal head on top. By all means make them humanoid, but they still need to feel like a different species.

Lilani:
First of all, they make little sense as a race. I mean really, people who are EXACTLY like regular people but with animal hides and fur?

Realisticly? If Khajit lived in colder climates then a fur coat would be more useful than human sweat could ever be. As Human sweat evolved for hot weather. Sure you could argue that's what clothes are for, but by the same token it's possible khajit only came up with clothes when Nords showed them how they work.

Lilani:
REALLY? What is the evolutionary advantage to that? Why are the changes in physiology restricted to the head and skin?

Not to mention tails, but in any case think about why a creature would need a cat like head. Pressumably I can think that it may have to do with a meat rich diet they may have had before encountering nords and technology like bows and swords. I already mentioned fur. And I think a tail helps with balance. Digitigrade feet give them more spring in their step and cat ears allow better listening to their surroundings.

Lilani:
Why aren't their joints reversed like animals legs?

*facepalm* I looked up a picture of a cat's hind legs and they are not "reversed" per say as it is that between the ball of their foot and their heel is longer. That is it. Same leg, just different length... and also lifted up to walk on the ball of foot, but the khajit have that too.

Lilani:
Why aren't they more muscular, or more svelt, or taller or shorter or hunchback? It makes absolutely no sense.

When you're an ambush predator with an emphasis on speed, stealth, dexterity and acuracy (attributes of theives as well, which many khajit are); it makes a lot of sense for you to be as lithe as a cat. And since they are cats, that's a given. Which explains all of that. And as for hunch-back; I can hardly picture a hunchback being stealthy, can you?

Lilani:
It's like they just said "Hurr derp, let's stick some random animal heads on our people and call it a day!"

Unlikely. design processes work more like "Hey you know what would be cool? animal people!" followed by another asking "Will it make sense? I mean, it needs to fit naturaly into the setting". Which khajit do quite well when you consider that their focal point is the fact they are treated as scum, theives, assassins. Which creates a self fulfilling prophecy that they will be forced to be theives. A tale of racism... Okay, it's not perfect, but Show me one thing that is perfect And I'll show you a fake.

Lilani:
Then they're just ugly and wreak of laziness in design. Because once you think about it, the reason their physiology is the same as regular people is obvious. If their bodies are the same, the same animations and scripts can be used to make them move can be the same as well. And then I just feel awkward looking at them. They're like a furry's wet dream come alive.

So please, somebody tell me I'm not the only one who really can't stand these things?

Sometimes the lazy people have a point. If they have a similar to human form and animation pattern it becomes more endearing. At least up to a point, which I don't think skyrim has crossed yet.

As for the "furry's wet dream" comment, I have to say: "stop thinking about what other people are into, it makes you sound like more of a pervert than them." Because not only is what one person considers attractive their buisness and their buisness alone, but that Beauty itself is subjective on a level so complex you cannot understand it; having a complex interplay between so many subconssious elements that it's a Miracle that there are any people at all who's attractions are fairly mundane.

In fact, I'm sure everyone on this forum has some unusual quirk that they are attracted to; Gothic, Punk, anime-style, buisness people, sports stars, formal wear, red-hair, Russian, Japanese, American, British, German, Polyneisian. Some of these seem mundane, but consider that some people choose only partners with any one of those traits (possibly more); then it becomes clear they have have a harder time than people with low standards. And Then You realise, ALL people have that kind of mindset of narrow, wildly varying standards. Some of which just happen to choose features only pressent in fantasy, such as "Furry" as you're defining it.

My Forum Arguing hand is getting tired...

Op, you leave my Khajit alone, or else I'll have to bust out the Sword of Omens.

"Thunder, Thunder, Thundercats HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"

Haha, couldn't help myself, any other Khajit fans like to do this?

I love both of them. They have cool lore. That's about all I need to like a fantasy race.

I love Argonians and Khajiiti! I'd never play as one, but that's because I prefer to play as the races of men.

And I think the problem with your argument about evolution is that you're looking at it the wrong way. Argonians hail from Black Marsh, a place where reptiles are abundant and there is a hell of a lot of water. Just as humans evolved from apes (and yes, evolution does exist in TES, all you 'magic' handwavers), they evolved from lizards. It's the same story in Elsweyr, where the Khajiiti evolved from the tigers and big cats that thrive in their province.

Plus, the whole OP reeks of someone not having looked that far into the lore. Khajiiti change their form based on the phases of the moon, from looking like normal humans to giant lions, but these other forms are rare outside of their home province. Argonians can be hive-minded by a giant tree, and are drawn to it - but again, its influence is weak outside of Black Marsh. They're not just animal people thrown in for the hell of it, they have a LOT of backstory.

xPixelatedx:
From where I am sitting those kinds of legs look pretty functional for a two legged animal. The real reason why they changed the legs is because they didn't want to make entierly separate armor/clothing variants for the beast races, they even came out and said this. You guys don't have to defend their lazy art design, they were happy admitting to it. You will also notice the werewolves have the legs the beast people should, which is relevant to what I just said because you conveniently don't wear anything in werewolf form haha.

I've got a better explanation for why beast legs were removed.
image

I like the way the Khajiit and Argonians look in Skyrim. They have evolved to be more 'human-like' than their predecessors.

worldruler8:
Morrowing did it better

At first I thought this was just a typo, but you wrote it twice. My OCD is forcing me to point out it's Morrowind.

Also, Orcs (Orsimer) are elves, descendent from the Aldmer as all the other elves were. Mer means elf. As are the Falmer and Dwemer (Dwarves).

djAMPnz:
I like the way the Khajiit and Argonians look in Skyrim. They have evolved to be more 'human-like' than their predecessors.

worldruler8:
Morrowing did it better

At first I thought this was just a typo, but you wrote it twice. My OCD is forcing me to point out it's Morrowind.

Also, Orcs (Orsimer) are elves, descendent from the Aldmer as all the other elves were. Mer means elf. As are the Falmer and Dwemer (Dwarves).

Oh, I guess I did. :/ I blame my dyslexia. But yeah, my point (and opinion) still stands.

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