Mass Effect 3 will be incomplete

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SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Yopaz:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

You do know that the game was leaked in an xbox live screw up and since then the game has been playable, with a few subtitles and facial textures missing, right?

Because thats what happened, and a bunch of people have played it.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114063-Xbox-Live-Beta-Testers-Get-Accidental-Peek-at-Mass-Effect-3

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114242-Mass-Effect-3-Story-Leaked-BioWare-Accepting-Feedback

OK, you're clearly not reading my post. I KNOW that the story has been leaked. I have never denied it. All I am saying is that Bioware claims that the important story element connected to the character are intact, but you wont have him in your squad or get the sidequests. Neither of your links prove that wrong. Someone played the beta, sure, but a beta is not the same as the finished game. You got nothing that states the story will be incomplete so you are not being reasonable. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

So, we ignore the leaks because Bioware swore he wouldnt be central to the story, honest. Sounds alright. Not like Bioware has been untruthful before, right?

That is not what I have been saying. What I have been saying is that Bioware says that the important parts of the story containing him will be present, but you wont have him in your squad. Really, I wont bother to go on with this because I am repeating the same thing over and over here, but you don't seem to bother to read what I am saying.

Yopaz:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

Yopaz:

OK, you're clearly not reading my post. I KNOW that the story has been leaked. I have never denied it. All I am saying is that Bioware claims that the important story element connected to the character are intact, but you wont have him in your squad or get the sidequests. Neither of your links prove that wrong. Someone played the beta, sure, but a beta is not the same as the finished game. You got nothing that states the story will be incomplete so you are not being reasonable. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

So, we ignore the leaks because Bioware swore he wouldnt be central to the story, honest. Sounds alright. Not like Bioware has been untruthful before, right?

That is not what I have been saying. What I have been saying is that Bioware says that the important parts of the story containing him will be present, but you wont have him in your squad. Really, I wont bother to go on with this because I am repeating the same thing over and over here, but you don't seem to bother to read what I am saying.

Where do they say this?

So much stupidity coming from people about this.

I wouldn't get him either way.
Even if I happen to get the game new, it probably won't be the CE.
Otherwise, I'll more likely get the game used.

EcksTeaSea:
So much stupidity coming from people about this.

am i one of the stupid ones

A summarized treatment of a verbal dictation detailing updated From Ashes DLC (rewritten due to Nov. 2011 Plot Leak). Leak aquired from my half-brother's girlfriend's cousin who happens to work at the big office in Edmonton....

Mission Start:

Shepard recieves a transmission from Anderson via Normandy communications:
"Shepard, one of our codebreaker teams operating in secret outside of Citadel space has intercepted an encrypted Cerberus report sent through several different channels to the Illusive Man, marked high priority. It details the corrdinates of a previously excavated Prothean ruin deemed too badly damaged for further reseach...A small Cerberus splinter group acting as a private mining interest has made a request for immediate research and security support...It is unclear what this group has discovered, our team is still deciphering much of the report...However, recent intercepts on Cerberus troop movements suggest that the Illusive man has granted the request...I know you have other priorities right now Shepard, but if the Illusive Man has devoted resources to a remote planet while in the middle of a war, it must be important...I'm sending you the coordinates now, it's your call, Good Luck Shepard"

Shepard travels to the remote planet and infiltrates the Cerberus research site...After several firefights eliminating heavily armed Cerberus security forces, Sheperd uncovers a heavily damaged underground facility resembling the architechture found on Ilos. Shepard interupts a team of Cerberus scientists just as they open an ancient stasis pod. A figure emerges from the pod...emitting a paralysing biotic mind distortion. Shepard and his team, incapacitated, experience a vision similar in nature to the one seen on Eden Prime. The scientists are grusomely killed by the blast due to such close proximity. Shepard regains composure enough to see the figure in full view, revealed to be a Prothean. His contact with the Cipher allows Shepard to project a short broken sequence of visions and words toward the Prothean attempting to explain his intentions. The enraged Prothean pays no attention. With great effort, Shepard aims his pistol at the Prothean. A paragon intercept gives a coherent telepathic ultimatum ending the standoff (if no action is taken, Shepard mortally wounds the Prothean, unknown consequences).

The Prothean stands down and questions Shepard telepathically, integrating sequences of words and images together. Shepard somewhat puzzled, answers as best he can, explaining the situation and asking follow up questions about the Prothean's origin and survival. The Prothean responds while attempting to access an information interface. Dismayed the Prothean states that a large cache of his research data has been lost. Shepard queries about the research and learns that the Prothean was researching a means to reverse the effects of Indoctrination.

He and his reseach team (deemed not important enough to be sent to Ilos) were forced to retreat to a stasis facility far underground following an initial Reaper attack 50000 yrs ago. While in stasis, the Reapers were unable to detect the Prothean and his research team. However, damage to the structure killed his entire team as well as destroying most of the data and VI protocols found within the facility. As the sole survivor, the facility possessed enough enegy reserves to maintain the researcher in stasis indefinitely. With no VI protocol to wake him, the Prothean slumbered in stasis for millenia.

The Prothean requests that Shepard escort him to Eden Prime, where a copy of his work was entrusted with his former mentor. With vengeful fervour, the Prothean vows to aid Shepard however he can in his fight against the Reapers. On the approach to Eden Prime, Shepard finds Cerberus has beaten them to the colony. The original Cerberus splinter group had accessed the surviving data caches, allowing the Illusive Man's agents to determine the location of an intact copy. Cerberus troopers terrorize the population as Shepard battles to an unknown Prothean ruin. After a protracted firefight with Cerberus forces, Shepard and the Prothean locate a second Vigil VI charged with maintaining the stasis facility hidden deep underground in Eden Prime. This facility while in far better shape, has become a tomb for the entire Eden Prime research team as the energy reserves had long ago failed to sustain life. The Prothean breifly mourns the loss of his mentor, then proceeds to access the underground data caches. Shepard is forced to fend off waves of Cerberus attacks as the Prothean downloads a copy of his research.

Shepard's team narrowly escape the underground facility as a massive Cerberus counter-attack converges on their location. With the Prothean and his data safely secured aboard the Normandy, the research to reverse Indoctrination can continue.

End Mission.

The loyalty of the Prothean is ensured. As well as becoming an available shore party member, he serves as a science officer aboard the Normandy. The Prothean makes a scientific breakthrough near the end of the plotline involving Cerberus. It reveals a third unique outcome during the final showdown between Shepard and now completely indoctrinated Illusive Man.

Did you believe this for a second..no I thought not.

<massive groan>

I swear... this industry is getting worse and worse. I wouldn't be surprised if I just quit games all together in the next few years.

Zeel:

Yopaz:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

So, we ignore the leaks because Bioware swore he wouldnt be central to the story, honest. Sounds alright. Not like Bioware has been untruthful before, right?

That is not what I have been saying. What I have been saying is that Bioware says that the important parts of the story containing him will be present, but you wont have him in your squad. Really, I wont bother to go on with this because I am repeating the same thing over and over here, but you don't seem to bother to read what I am saying.

Where do they say this?

A quote where Bioware says the story wont be incomplete has been posted in this thread. That is why I ignored you the last time you quoted me. Now I can link you to this thread, but I am certain you know how to find it by now.

ruthaford_jive:
<massive groan>

I swear... this industry is getting worse and worse. I wouldn't be surprised if I just quit games all together in the next few years.

I'd quit but video games are one of the only things keeping me sane

Yopaz:

Zeel:

Yopaz:

That is not what I have been saying. What I have been saying is that Bioware says that the important parts of the story containing him will be present, but you wont have him in your squad. Really, I wont bother to go on with this because I am repeating the same thing over and over here, but you don't seem to bother to read what I am saying.

Where do they say this?

A quote where Bioware says the story wont be incomplete has been posted in this thread. That is why I ignored you the last time you quoted me. Now I can link you to this thread, but I am certain you know how to find it by now.

That's a different claim than "Prothean character included, playability not".

I want something a little more tangible than some tosser going off about how complete the game is. You are claiming the only difference of the DLC is the playability. Is there confirmation of that? For as much as know, the prothean was hacked out only for your blessed DLC.

Zeel:

Yopaz:

Zeel:

Where do they say this?

A quote where Bioware says the story wont be incomplete has been posted in this thread. That is why I ignored you the last time you quoted me. Now I can link you to this thread, but I am certain you know how to find it by now.

That's a different claim than "Prothean character included, playability not".

I want something a little more tangible than some tosser going off about how complete the game is. You are claiming the only difference of the DLC is the playability. Is there confirmation of that? For as much as know, the prothean was hacked out only for your blessed DLC.

how much do you know and how much of it is really fact all we have right now is what bioware told us and some leaked script that may not be the whole thing anyway

How you define hacked out? The game is really only what they decide to give us. If they hacked out every character but Shepard and made the game 40 minutes long, that would be Mass Effect 3. It would be 40 minutes long, with 20 different pieces of DLC. The only thing you can really do is look at what is there, and decide "is this enough for X dollars". If the answer is no, you wait for it to go on sale, or a GOTY edition to come out, or you just don't get it.

Zeel:

Yopaz:

Zeel:

Where do they say this?

A quote where Bioware says the story wont be incomplete has been posted in this thread. That is why I ignored you the last time you quoted me. Now I can link you to this thread, but I am certain you know how to find it by now.

That's a different claim than "Prothean character included, playability not".

I want something a little more tangible than some tosser going off about how complete the game is. You are claiming the only difference of the DLC is the playability. Is there confirmation of that? For as much as know, the prothean was hacked out only for your blessed DLC.

There was a quote from Bioware and that is far more tangible than your statement based on nothing? Based on brief knowledge about the final game? Based on leaked information? I don't want to go on discussing this because at least I am willing to admit that I don't have the facts here. You don't have them either, but I don't think you will ever admit it. Bioware claims that the story is complete. I claim nothing. I know nothing. You know nothing. Thus the most tangible source is Bioware and we'll have to wait to find out of it's true or not.

The prothean doesn't even give you war assets!

I can perfectly understand the feelings of everyone who is very angry about this, my first reaction was anger. But then I stopped and thought about it for a bit and there is a really important point that people seem to be forgetting. Unless I'm completely mistaken it was stated early that the collectors edition would contain an additional squadmate and a mission for them. Bioware has simply made it in the form of free DLC for those who bought the collector's edition and as a bonus made it available for the rest of us right off the bat. The other important point that has been mentioned before is that it was made during gold time, so it wasnt cutting into development time at all and couldn't be released as part of the full game anyway. SO if some of you would rather they had included it as part of the full game and had to wait another month for the game to come out. Personally I am perfectly happy to pay for the DLC. The main reason behind all of the anger against it is simply the stigma against day 1 DLC along with the importance of protheans to the ME universe.

I really don't care about this DLC bullshit. Certainly it's a dick move from EA and BioWare, but it's not a deal breaker for me, I still am going to pick up the Digital Deluxe version of the game anyway. I'm far from being a fan of BioWare, but the demo (Especially the multiplayer) was actually a lot of fun and I'm totally willing to get the game after that.

I think you all need to calm down. At the end of the day, it's just a video game. Is it really worth getting so angry over? You have a problem with it (And I'm not saying the "boycotters" don't have legitimate qualms) don't buy it. Period.

Yopaz:

Zeel:

Yopaz:

A quote where Bioware says the story wont be incomplete has been posted in this thread. That is why I ignored you the last time you quoted me. Now I can link you to this thread, but I am certain you know how to find it by now.

That's a different claim than "Prothean character included, playability not".

I want something a little more tangible than some tosser going off about how complete the game is. You are claiming the only difference of the DLC is the playability. Is there confirmation of that? For as much as know, the prothean was hacked out only for your blessed DLC.

There was a quote from Bioware and that is far more tangible than your statement based on nothing? Based on brief knowledge about the final game? Based on leaked information? I don't want to go on discussing this because at least I am willing to admit that I don't have the facts here. You don't have them either, but I don't think you will ever admit it. Bioware claims that the story is complete. I claim nothing. I know nothing. You know nothing. Thus the most tangible source is Bioware and we'll have to wait to find out of it's true or not.

Oh send that ship down another river.

I know "nothing". So all that footage, and information about the game is just total utter nonsense then, right? I mean the EA game trend of hacking off games for dlc's means nothing right? You are delusional. How much information do I have to see before it's "okay" to make a conclusion? Cause I'm seeing quite alot of it and its bad.

Bioware also claiming shit but then it turning out to be an utter lie means nothing right? I mean theres a first time for everythign, right,? right!?@? NO!
A company only goal is to profit: their word is HIGHLY suspect, and all the evidence only supports this.

lord Claincy Ffnord:
I can perfectly understand the feelings of everyone who is very angry about this, my first reaction was anger. But then I stopped and thought about it for a bit and there is a really important point that people seem to be forgetting. Unless I'm completely mistaken it was stated early that the collectors edition would contain an additional squadmate and a mission for them. Bioware has simply made it in the form of free DLC for those who bought the collector's edition and as a bonus made it available for the rest of us right off the bat. The other important point that has been mentioned before is that it was made during gold time, so it wasnt cutting into development time at all and couldn't be released as part of the full game anyway. SO if some of you would rather they had included it as part of the full game and had to wait another month for the game to come out. Personally I am perfectly happy to pay for the DLC. The main reason behind all of the anger against it is simply the stigma against day 1 DLC along with the importance of protheans to the ME universe.

Can I be honest with you and tell you that your freshly-registered account and single post reeks of poor shilling?

Zeel:

A company only goal is to profit: their word is HIGHLY suspect, and all the evidence only supports this.

If Bioware's word is suspect because they are a company out to make money YOUR word is EQUALLY as a suspect because your a random person on the internet trying to start hate against Bioware.

The ironic thing is YOU ARE EXACTLY LIKE BIOWARE just on the exact opposite side of the spectrum and your evidence is just as unjustifiable as theirs.

Zeel:

Yopaz:

Zeel:

That's a different claim than "Prothean character included, playability not".

I want something a little more tangible than some tosser going off about how complete the game is. You are claiming the only difference of the DLC is the playability. Is there confirmation of that? For as much as know, the prothean was hacked out only for your blessed DLC.

There was a quote from Bioware and that is far more tangible than your statement based on nothing? Based on brief knowledge about the final game? Based on leaked information? I don't want to go on discussing this because at least I am willing to admit that I don't have the facts here. You don't have them either, but I don't think you will ever admit it. Bioware claims that the story is complete. I claim nothing. I know nothing. You know nothing. Thus the most tangible source is Bioware and we'll have to wait to find out of it's true or not.

Oh send that ship down another river.

I know "nothing". So all that footage, and information about the game is just total utter nonsense then, right? I mean the EA game trend of hacking off games for dlc's means nothing right? You are delusional. How much information do I have to see before it's "okay" to make a conclusion? Cause I'm seeing quite alot of it and its bad.

Bioware also claiming shit but then it turning out to be an utter lie means nothing right? I mean theres a first time for everythign, right,? right!?@? NO!
A company only goal is to profit: their word is HIGHLY suspect, and all the evidence only supports this.

You have seen footage, you may even have played the demo. You know nothing of what we are talking about here. You don't know what parts of the story they will chop off, or if they will give us a complete story. It is quite possible they are lying when they say we will get the full story, read my post where I said that I know nothing if this is true or not. Also note my wording. I am not saying that we will get the full game. I am saying Bioware claims. I use the word claim because I can't prove we actually get it. Can you prove that Bioware is lying? Do you know more than the developers of the game? All I am saying is that we should complain if they actually chop out important story, but as of today we can't say for sure. I also repeat that if they do cut away story then they deserve the hate they are getting.

Okay, so this is the new thing to do then? Right. I'll make the next Batman movie (Move over, Mr. Nolan, I can take it from here). That'll be the price of a regular movie ticket. But see, while I don't want to detract from the core experience, I will be charging an extra 20 bucks for all the scenes with Batman in them. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?

Mr.Squishy:
Okay, so this is the new thing to do then? Right. I'll make the next Batman movie (Move over, Mr. Nolan, I can take it from here). That'll be the price of a regular movie ticket. But see, while I don't want to detract from the core experience, I will be charging an extra 20 bucks for all the scenes with Batman in them. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?

The difference is Batman is a integral part of a batman movie, the Prothean being a squadmate in Mass Effect 3 is not.

SajuukKhar:

Mr.Squishy:
Okay, so this is the new thing to do then? Right. I'll make the next Batman movie (Move over, Mr. Nolan, I can take it from here). That'll be the price of a regular movie ticket. But see, while I don't want to detract from the core experience, I will be charging an extra 20 bucks for all the scenes with Batman in them. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?

the difference is Batman is a integral part of a batman movie, this Prothean in Mass Effect 3 is not.

Yeah, I know, I just got frustrated and felt the need to mock the concept. But hey, who's gonna stop BioWare from going 'oh by the way guys, Tali, Garrus and Wrex will be DLC for ME3 too. You can complete the game without them, they're not directly integral to the plot after all, but long-time fans will get a chance to see them again for only 29.99$. Plus you get a new gun!'
That might sound unrealistic, but I see this whole thing as a dangerously slippery slope.

Mr.Squishy:
Yeah, I know, I just got frustrated and felt the need to mock the concept. But hey, who's gonna stop BioWare from going 'oh by the way guys, Tali, Garrus and Wrex will be DLC for ME3 too. You can complete the game without them, they're not directly integral to the plot after all, but long-time fans will get a chance to see them again for only 29.99$. Plus you get a new gun!'

That might sound unrealistic, but I see this whole thing as a dangerously slippery slope.

I don't even know why it's a slippery slope. It just means they're charging more for what you consider to be "the complete game". And then you just decide if X dollars is too much for "the complete game", and if it is, you wait for the price to come down.

Seriously, slippery slope? EA was charging us $1 for a new hat in Sims like 10 years ago. You are at the BOTTOM OF THE SLOPE ALREADY.

Mr.Squishy:

Yeah, I know, I just got frustrated and felt the need to mock the concept. But hey, who's gonna stop BioWare from going 'oh by the way guys, Tali, Garrus and Wrex will be DLC for ME3 too. You can complete the game without them, they're not directly integral to the plot after all, but long-time fans will get a chance to see them again for only 29.99$. Plus you get a new gun!'
That might sound unrealistic, but I see this whole thing as a dangerously slippery slope.

Because despite the constant demonization that people throw onto Bioware they have yet to exclude anything from their games and sell it as DLC that made said game incomplete.

Despite the fact that NWN1, ME1, DA1, DA2, and ME2 ALL had DLC each one of them was ALSO a full game without them.

The slippery-slope fallacy that "they did it THIS far means THEY PROBABLY WILL GO FARTHER" is BS, it is in this argument and every other argument it has ever been used in. If you have to play the slippery slope card then your argument is fundamentally broken.

Bioware's track-record of not cutting out important things speaks for itself. They aren't this demonic Illuminati like origination whose sole drive is to scam you out of money, they aren't angels who do things solely out of the good of their hearts either, but they dont have the malicious intent people try to throw on them.

Mr.Squishy:

SajuukKhar:

Mr.Squishy:
Okay, so this is the new thing to do then? Right. I'll make the next Batman movie (Move over, Mr. Nolan, I can take it from here). That'll be the price of a regular movie ticket. But see, while I don't want to detract from the core experience, I will be charging an extra 20 bucks for all the scenes with Batman in them. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?

the difference is Batman is a integral part of a batman movie, this Prothean in Mass Effect 3 is not.

Yeah, I know, I just got frustrated and felt the need to mock the concept. But hey, who's gonna stop BioWare from going 'oh by the way guys, Tali, Garrus and Wrex will be DLC for ME3 too. You can complete the game without them, they're not directly integral to the plot after all, but long-time fans will get a chance to see them again for only 29.99$. Plus you get a new gun!'
That might sound unrealistic, but I see this whole thing as a dangerously slippery slope.

If they do that, who cares? Just don't buy it and let them suffer for making such a stupid decision.

Oh come on now. It's just a Prothean. Here's the part where I'd go on about the plot significance this character could have. But no. He follows the same archetype of the super powerful/awesome/ancient guy who was put into stasis while his race was wiped out/lost/turned evil/etc. I honestly feel that he will be even less entertaining than Zaead.

this is why i kind of want to wait until they get all of the dlc out of their systems.

the me2 dlc was bullshit, you had to wait almost a year to get the whole story.

I dont want to have to replay a game to play dlc.

But Shale was just a golem, the only significance they had was the Anvil, a Prothean is mysterious and is the only reason why Shepard is so special (he absorbed data from a Prothean device) EA kind of trapped themselves here where if they don't make the companion have significance, than the guys who got it will rage since it was a disappointment, and if they make it important, the guys who didn't get the Collecters edition will rage since something that important should be free

ruthaford_jive:
<massive groan>

I swear... this industry is getting worse and worse. I wouldn't be surprised if I just quit games all together in the next few years.

How is it getting worse?

Look back ten years ago. What do you see?

Now look today. What do you see?

You should see a substantial increase in great games added upon the great games from back in the day. To me, Mass Effect 3 will be a great game. So what if it has "Day One DLC" (Please people, stop calling it dayonedlc), which is something most games that are any good have now. The only time it was completely fuckin' asinine was back in Arkham City where those got shafted on something vital to the actual story (Catwoman) where here it is only a bloody squadmate. If that is your cup of tea/scotch/whatever the hell you drink, then buy it. If it isn't, don't. What do you want them to do when the game goes gold? Twiddle their thumbs until it is released and THEN work on DLC? Or just not work on DLC at all?

Seriously, you people are so bloody confusing.

Loop Stricken:

lord Claincy Ffnord:
I can perfectly understand the feelings of everyone who is very angry about this, my first reaction was anger. But then I stopped and thought about it for a bit and there is a really important point that people seem to be forgetting. Unless I'm completely mistaken it was stated early that the collectors edition would contain an additional squadmate and a mission for them. Bioware has simply made it in the form of free DLC for those who bought the collector's edition and as a bonus made it available for the rest of us right off the bat. The other important point that has been mentioned before is that it was made during gold time, so it wasnt cutting into development time at all and couldn't be released as part of the full game anyway. SO if some of you would rather they had included it as part of the full game and had to wait another month for the game to come out. Personally I am perfectly happy to pay for the DLC. The main reason behind all of the anger against it is simply the stigma against day 1 DLC along with the importance of protheans to the ME universe.

Can I be honest with you and tell you that your freshly-registered account and single post reeks of poor shilling?

May I ask what "shilling" is?

I want you to play the game, without the DLC, and tell me how "incomplete" it really is. No, go ahead. I'll wait.

Capitano Segnaposto:
May I ask what "shilling" is?

That means someone is endorsing a product for a fee while pretending they weren't paid at all.
But basically, what Loop Stricken said was, "you're new so your opinion doesn't matter".

Zhukov:

00slash00:

Zhukov:

Fucking gamers, man. Most entitled pack of whiners I've ever had the misfortune to encounter.

and here you are on a website filled with nothing but gamers. must be your own personal hell

At times. A certain attitude is required to make it bearable.

Besides, as always, there are a few grains of wheat among the mountainous piles of chaff.

you anger demonstrates that you fail to see the grand scheme of things. If you don't act immature and bitch about things like this , then the publisher will think it is ok and then will continue to find more things to screw us with.

You can see this everywhere. why did ww2 happen? because no one got the balls to slap Germany down while they were conquering the weaker nations.
I remember when games were 50 dollars, then cod posted at 60 dollars and now lookie lookie , every freaking publisher is starting to post at 60 dollars what a shocker.

I remember when dlc was free and real content were expansion packs with legit amounts of content , but then people started buying 15 dollar map packs and now look where we are.

I am hard pressed to remember the last real expansion pack to any of the the main stream games I play.

make no mistake , publishers are fundamentally EVIL. If you give them ground on anything they will take it and then try to claim more. I don't even think they have a conscience. To them the only thing that matters is the bottom line and whether or not that line is higher than last year.

This reminds me of that time when I saw that ME2 would have a Geth squadmate.

"Oh wow! A geth squadmate? The entire first game was about geth! We must be super important to the story!"

and then he wasn't.

At all. Sure, he provided an insight into the Geth logic, but him joining my team and fighting the collectors was completely optional and eventless.

So..yeah. Just because he's a Prothean, doesn't mean he has any significance on the plot at large. It's extra fluff, and I will treat it as such.

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