Games where you are the bad guy (but don't know it)

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The Pikmin series.

In the first game you're upsetting the Earth's eco-system in order to escape the planet, in the second you're wrecking everything for profit! To top it off, there's something sinister about the Pikmin. I mean, their bonding with Olimar, someone with the tactical mind to direct them, allows them to crush most other species! Not to mention the onion bulbs produce more Pikmin when you feed them the dead bodies of your foes!

waj9876:
Well, it seems not many people are too keen to read anything passed the title. Because if they were, they'd realize they weren't supposed to name ANY game where you are the villain. Just the ones that are presented as good, and in hindsight are HORRIBLE people.

I'd have to say Heather Mason from Silent Hill 3. Even after the possibility that the monsters you've been killing are actually just random people she's murdering, does that stop her? No.

Yeah, it's all in the title. I may change the title but I can't think of a better way to phrase it in such a short way that still grabs people's attention. Can you think of one?

Another game that springs to mind is Metal Gear Solid 4. Now I have played through the game three times now and it's still not entirely clear what is going on but it seems to be that Ocelot is trying to destroy The Patriots.

The Patriots are apparently an all powerful secret society that has usurped democracy and force the world into a constant state of war... and Snake is for some reason trying to stop Ocelot rather than help him. Then the final act a deus-ex-machina virus does the exact same thing but somehow better.

After MGS3 created so much sympathy for Ocelot, I don't get why Snake can't just join Ocelot and say "yeah, those Patriots are assholes, let's stop them... whoever they are"

But more disturbing that than is the ending. It shows snake with a gun in his mouth, it fades to black and you hear a gunshot. Then suddenly in the next scene Big Boss is there and tells him everything is great and all his problems are solved, answering every question... or does he. What if Old Snake ACTUALLY pulled the trigger and the entire rest of the epilogue is just a fantasy concocted by his brain that has just been shattered by a bullet. It certainly makes more sense than the actual explanation.

DoPo:

Also, Prototype.

I mean, Alex eats people. And by eats I mean he completely murderizes them. That's in addition to him flailing his Lovecraftian limbs around.

this, cause i see no other way to see it, that whole game was just one evil git VS a lot of evil gits

daveman247:

Artorius:
Portal

Wait what? Unless you mean the coop then fair enough :P

Well in metal gear solid 3 and peace walker you play as big boss. So, yeah.

EDIT: Oh and pretty much any RPG in which the "hero" lets himself into a strangers house, interrorgates them for a bit and then proceeds to rob them blind "for the greater good of saving the land".

I fail to see how big boss is the bad guy in 3 as he's sent in to destroy metal gear (a nuclear device that evil people are going to use to terrorize the world)

Ummm i can't specifically think of any that haven't been mentioned already!

freaper:
Assassin's Creed anyone? (tough someone might have mentioned it) You slay hordes of guards, with each a family to feed, and more often than not for no apparent reason other than to test whether you can impale two brutes with one spear. Also punching beggars...

Punching Beggars? Hell no. In the first game they got the hidden blade because you could easily kill them and walk away before anyone noticed they were dead.

Superman 64. In the greatest twist of all, you, the player, are the villain, because you chose to play the game (and possibly even purchase it), thus helping justify the greatest evil the video game industry has ever released unto the world.

...Really guys? Really? Not a single mention of NieR? Which is probably the embodiment of the idea of playing the unsuspecting villain.

Dark Souls would be an interesting one to discuss, especially considering that the nature of the story leaves so much open to player interpretation. From what I gather:

The original Golden Sun... if you look at it in a reeeally obscure way. Your party tries throughout the whole game to stop the Elemental Lighthouses from being lit. Then you find out in the second game that they have to be lit otherwise the world will die an inevitable death. So in the second game the other party goes around lighting them all and it all ends fairly well, after you almost kill the world by STOPPING this from happening in the first game. Apart from the power-hungry dude gaining the power of Alchemy at the end and all, but ehh, you can't have everything.

ResonanceSD:
*looks around*

Can't believe I'm first to say this.

KOTOR! You're REVAN!

-Drifter-:
I feel that most of the people in this thread have missed the point. He's talking about games where the designated hero can, with a different perspective, easily be seen as the villain, not games where it's dramatically revealed or presented as a choice.

I Think that this--^ is why no one else said it.
OT: Civilization if you think about it. Your country is trying to take over the rest of the world. That seems pretty evil to me.

DaHero:
Wow, how has nobody mentioned S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl yet? Strelok!

But Strelok isint a bad guy, hes neutral, you make him good or bad yes, but the main quest doesn't exactly depend on that. The military attack you because thats what their told to do, you're only defending yourself (unless you just charge into a base for the hell of it).

Live-A-Live. No spoilers for you =p

L.A. Noire you don't find out until the end but once you get there it's freakin' crazy

Jazoni89:
Baten Kaitos, and this is a good one...

I still have yet to completely beat that game (got distracted by other games) but I really want to go back and beat it one of these days. I was on disc three and was stuck in the cloud world with no idea where to go =|
I also remember getting to that part and going "wait... WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!"

OP: I'd say the Terran campaigns of Starcraft and Brood War count as "being the bad guys without knowing it"
In the first Terran campaign, everything you do is to bring down the "evil and corrupt" Terran Confederacy. In the name of righteous revolution, you: kill countless other Terrans that are just following orders, use the Zerg as a bio-nuke against an entire planet and a military force trying to stop you, kill a Protoss force that sets out to stop the Zerg from murderizing an entire planet, and when you finally bring down the Confederacy (when the Zerg brings them down really) what do you do? You say Mengsk is an asshole for leaving Kerrigan to die and run away.

In the second Terran campaign, you are a commander of the UED and your goal is to "restore stability in the sector for the glory of humanity". You basically go on another murder spree of a bunch of Terrans just following orders under the guise of "taking down the evil and corrupt" Terran Dominion, kill Vice-Admiral Alexi Stukov, the one guy who knew what was really going on with Duran, then put the Zerg Overmind on a leash. All of that in the name of humanity...

I'd include the Zerg campaigns, but I doubt anyone would say those are anything but being the 'bad guys'. The Protoss campaigns are the only ones that have you being the good guys throughout.

ELCTea:
snip

At the beginning yeah, but at the end he starts to go a bit funny :P And then on peacewalker he pretty much loses it.

Silent Hill 2, Homecoming and 0rigins.

WET. Although it's revealed half way through, and you spend the rest of the game getting payback for it.

Siren Bloodcurse

Minecraft. Think about it. You go around devastating the natural world, cutting trees, killing all sorts of animals and creatures, and the extensive mining is probably not good for the soil. For what? So you can have a tower.

A Satanic Panda:

DaHero:
Wow, how has nobody mentioned S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadow of Chernobyl yet? Strelok!

I was gonna but you beat me to it.

"Were here to protect you from The Zone, not The Zone from you." I'm all for mining The Zone for its scientific value, but leave it to the professionals STALKERS. The Zone is not a toy. Especially when they kill each other over it.

How 'bout Clear Sky?

The Darkness 1 & 2 ... you're a dude ripping, shredding and slaughtering with giant tentacles and a monster inside you, through a freaking city and Jackie has no bad conscience whatsoever doing all the horrible stuff, just to save his girlfriend... now there is straight A material for a badguy you are playing

Oh yeah, Of course, Modern Warfare 2

Mainly for the final act, just realise.

Just take a step back and think about this. Price has just spend the past few years in a horrible Russian prison, who knows if he has defected in that time. And what happens immediately after he is released and back in service? He hijacks a nuclear submarine and fires a nuke to detonate over the United States! That is fucking insane.

Then when Shepard attacks him Price suddenly assumes "oooh, Shepard is a bad guy" never stops to considerer they are trying to arrest him as they think he is compromised. This is after Price specifically disobeyed orders and deliberately cut communications. Yes, Soap gets killed by Shepard but how do we know Shepard doesn't just think that Soap is a traitor in a foiled attack at nuking the United States.

Makarov is responsible for framing America (totally implausibly) for the massacre and not only is Shepard never implicated but at no point are the key characters ever given any reason to think he is. They don't just abandon hunting Makarov, they actually cooperate with him saying they will HELP him by killing Shepard.

KILLING SHEPARD!!!

FUCKING WHY?!!??!!!
Go to the UK, send a message to the UK, tell them what you think this crazy general has done. Price is acting UTTERLY INSANE to think that it's a good idea to go and kill Shepard. And it's not a precision strike, it involves killing dozens of allied servicemen who were your friends! Killing so many of your own side just to kill Shepard.

just look at this and consider the dialogue based on the presumption you are playing crazed traitorous assassins who have been manipulate and Shepard is just a loyal soldier:

Notice Shepard never admitted to anything. He never said he started this war... he never said he staged or allowed the massacre... just stating the obvious that with this war there will be no shortage of volunteers. He is gloating to a vanquished terrorists! YOU ARE THE TERRORIST! the person leeding ALL of this is Price who just spent the past Half Decade being indoctrinated and tortured by the Russians likely polluting his mind with doubt and to betray his masters.

The Civilization series. You're tasked with taking over the world by whatever means you see fit. Not to mention that every time you run into a peaceful native village, they vanish off the map... and you don't always get settlers from it if you follow my meaning.

Torrasque:

Jazoni89:
Baten Kaitos, and this is a good one...

I still have yet to completely beat that game (got distracted by other games) but I really want to go back and beat it one of these days. I was on disc three and was stuck in the cloud world with no idea where to go =|
I also remember getting to that part and going "wait... WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!"

DOOO IIIIT! Srsly. That game, it's magnificent. Very epic OST, artwork is gorgeous as it's a GameCube game(!) and the combat is very, very awesome. There is something in trying to make the best deck possible, with the cards that you have. The aging system is brilliant!

And in regards to Baten Kaitos and this thread; You don't actually play as Kalas. As seen from the intro, and the way he interacts with you :o. The game might make you feel like that though.

EVIL GENIUS, you actually build a base and do stuff, but governments and other agencies always comes to blow it up !

Yggdraz0r:

Torrasque:

Jazoni89:
Baten Kaitos, and this is a good one...

I still have yet to completely beat that game (got distracted by other games) but I really want to go back and beat it one of these days. I was on disc three and was stuck in the cloud world with no idea where to go =|
I also remember getting to that part and going "wait... WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!?!"

DOOO IIIIT! Srsly. That game, it's magnificent. Very epic OST, artwork is gorgeous as it's a GameCube game(!) and the combat is very, very awesome. There is something in trying to make the best deck possible, with the cards that you have. The aging system is brilliant!

And in regards to Baten Kaitos and this thread; You don't actually play as Kalas. As seen from the intro, and the way he interacts with you :o. The game might make you feel like that though.

Baten Kaitos was awesome. It was the only card battle type game that I've ever enjoyed the combat.

OT: Half-Life. Black Mesa's experiments rip a dimensional hole to Xen, a refuge for a wide variety of species who fled their enemies, where they send heavily armed researchers to "collect" the local flora and fauna. The Resonance Cascade rips an even bigger hole in the dimensional fabric, and when the Nihilanth sends forces to try and stop whatever's happening, they're met with a crowbar wielding theoretical physicist who seems to have woken up on the wrong side of the bed. The Vortigaunt's just want the portal closed so they won't be found by their enemies. But fuck that, it's crowbar time!

Rather easy to become a pretty big bastard in the Galactic Civilization series. If you're playing as a neutral race and everyone likes you, you'll eventually have people asking you for support in many things. Generally they ask for money, easy. However, if they're in a war with someone, and you're friendly with their enemy, you can end up funding a war on a galactic scale without notice.

Gottesstrafe:
Jack from Bioshock. Yes, you end up saving Dr. Tenenbaum and the little sister (or not), but before that you're a mafia-trained assassin bred to take down countless human lives in the process of accomplishing the singular mission of destroying one of the few sane people left in a fairly isolated landscape that poses no threat to the world at large.

Luigi from Luigi's Mansion. After being round up and trapped in a small box like a stamp collection by a mad scientist, the souls of countless people trying to make their peace with the world are finally freed by a chance of fate. Gathered by revolutionary freedom fighter King Boo, they proceed to build a mansion far away from the rest of humanity to act as a boarding house of sorts where they can rest until they're ready to pass on and let go of their earthly desires. Suddenly, a tall mustachioed stranger kicks open their front door, kidnaps them in a small cramped vacuum cleaner (women and children first I might add), rummages through their rooms and steals their belongings, then traps them in portraits and sells them to the same sick pervert they tried to escape from earlier as part of his new "collection".

Pacman from... Pacman. C'mon, giant guy running around eating stuff he finds off the streets? He then finds a "power pill", which grants him the ability to shrug off pain and eat the people around him? People that turn "blue" when he goes on his cannibalistic rampages, their only crime being trying to corner and detain him? It's f*cking PCP!

Mario, just... Mario. Red guy who invades a sovereign nation and kills countless soldiers and civilians on the way, destroys infrastructure, and takes over "capitol buildings" all the while replacing their flags with his own Red star? A singular Red force aggressively expanding its sphere of influence further and further?

triggrhappy94:

I always play as an Argonian and as an act of good role-playing, I always think I'm in jail due to racial profiling.

Imperials always tryin' to keep the scaly man down, brother.

I'm with you on mario

Let me think.

Crackdown: you are working for someone trying to make an authoritarian dictatorship.

Killzone: the Hellghast are banished to a shit planet while the other people get to live on the nice world. So when they decide to fight back against their oppressors, you get to play as a group of marines who kill them and spout racial slurs at them.

Shadow of the Colossus: You make a deal with the devil to set him free.

Burnout Paradise: You are a murder bot that thrives on murdering other robots after all the humans besides one DJ were killed.

Metropolismania: You are working for Hitler trying to build utopian societies, later on you get the ability to evict anyone you want, by sending in special group of people to "convince them to leave" at the cost of your popularity.

Blablahb:
[quote="DoPo" post="9.351931.13936044"].
Overlord, obviously. You literally play an evil overlord.

If you're talking about Overlord 2, yeah, but the first is actually the reverse. At the start of the game you're raised from a tomb, given a helmet and made into the next Overload and preform evil acts left and right but you're actually

-Drifter-:
I feel that most of the people in this thread have missed the point. He's talking about games where the designated hero can, with a different perspective, easily be seen as the villain, not games where it's dramatically revealed or presented as a choice. At least, that's the impression I got.

I think the OP is trying to say that you spend most of the game thinking you're the hero when it later turns out you really aren't, at least that's how I understand it. If you're talking about that the hero of a game can be considered a villain from another prospective, it's hard to find a game where that isn't the case.

As mentioned the first Terran campaign in Starcraft. You think you're freeing the sector from the corrupt Confederacy just to hand it over to Mengsk, who turns out to be a total space-prick, and just as bad. You and Raynor quit when you find this out, but the damage is already done.

Fiz_The_Toaster:

Vegosiux:
Amnesia: The Dark Descent? There's a reason you wiped your memory...okay, it was not a big reveal at the end, was easy to see it pretty soon, but...it's not presented as "villain protagonist" from the start.

In the same vein, Amnesia: Justine where you are the villain, but you wiped your memory just for giggles and as an experiment.

The reveal was huge and shocked me because you are lead to hate Justine, and SURPRISE!!

Ya know, I haven't gotten around to playing Justine yet, but thanks for the spoiler. I'm sure the game will be just as enjoyable now that I know the end. This game isn't all that old. Spoiler tags: They're there for a reason.

What about Drakengard? Ok, so you start off as a guy who's fighting against an evil empire in a battle to save his sister? Ok, yeah, i can get behind that...decent motivation and all tha- Wait, why are you murdering child soldiers? ....Wait, you seem to be a little bit TOO into this whole 'killing soldiers' thing. Hold on, did you just bring a Child murdering Cannibal into the Party!?

In Drakengards Defense though, morality was so fucked up in that game that it was literally a battle of: Evil vs Evil vs EVEN WORSE.

TheMann:
As mentioned the first Terran campaign in Starcraft. You think you're freeing the sector from the corrupt Confederacy just to hand it over to Mengsk, who turns out to be a total space-prick, and is just as bad. You and Raynor quit when you find this out, but the damage is already done.

Fiz_The_Toaster:

Vegosiux:
Amnesia: The Dark Descent? There's a reason you wiped your memory...okay, it was not a big reveal at the end, was easy to see it pretty soon, but...it's not presented as "villain protagonist" from the start.

In the same vein, Amnesia: Justine where you are the villain, but you wiped your memory just for giggles and as an experiment.

The reveal was huge and shocked me because you are lead to hate Justine, and SURPRISE!!

Ya know, I haven't gotten around to playing Justine yet, but thanks for the spoiler. I'm sure the game will be just as enjoyable now that I know the end. This game isn't all that old. Spoiler tags: They're there for a reason.

In my defense, I didn't feel the need to since the thread title did hint at how games end, so my bad. Didn't mean to ruin the ending for ya.

Andaxay:
The original Golden Sun... if you look at it in a reeeally obscure way. Your party tries throughout the whole game to stop the Elemental Lighthouses from being lit. Then you find out in the second game that they have to be lit otherwise the world will die an inevitable death. So in the second game the other party goes around lighting them all and it all ends fairly well, after you almost kill the world by STOPPING this from happening in the first game. Apart from the power-hungry dude gaining the power of Alchemy at the end and all, but ehh, you can't have everything.

The lighthouses in Golden Sun are kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, if you will. I could go into larger elaboration, but that would probably derail my entire comment, and possibly part of the thread. x,x

Saints Row would be my contribution. The Third Street Saints were founded as a solution to the gang wars. For all intents and purposes, you're being portrayed the good guys, taking up a noble cause as the solution to gang wars and stopping them. But in reality, all you're actually doing is the exact same thing every other gang is doing: Murder the other gangs and dominate Stilwater.

Tales of Symphonia can also be looked at in a similar way. Colette's journey of world regeneration would not only save the world of Sylvarant from total destruction, but damn Tethe'alla to fall down that road until Tethe'alla's Chosen of Mana performs the same process. And thus both worlds damn one another to ensure their own survival and prosperity, so the Chosen can be looked upon both as a savior and a harbinger of death. Of course, they find a way to save both worlds later, but that is neither here nor there. You get the gist of it.

Heavy Rain:

other than that, not any i can think of at the moment.

Fiz_The_Toaster:
In my defense, I didn't feel the need to since the thread title did hint at how games end, so my bad. Didn't mean to ruin the ending for ya.

Eh, fair enough. That's a valid point. I'm actually not that butt-hurt; it was free DLC anyway. Now, on the other hand, if anyone ruins the end of Bastion, or the new-to-PC, Alan Wake for me, I will reach through the internet and employ my Fist of Doom. Don't make me get out the fist. (Besides, Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs looks to be awesome.)

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