Why so sephie

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Now i preface this with i am not posting this to start a flame war. I would like your opinion on why sephiroth is well liked? (my opinion) I feel any character that does not fight at full strength and loses about five times now cannot be as powerful as they keep on saying he is.

My friends keep on telling me that the ff creators say he is never fighting at full strength and that is why he is the most bad ass "because if he was fighting at his full strength he would not be beat. He is just bored with the fights." - friend at ohayocon.

Well he pretty much turns into a god purely by his own willpower, that should at least give him some badass points.

He also does the badass thing of permakilling one of the most important party members (your healer). Some people might think that is badass.

He rips his mom in half. What's that win him?

Your healer is taken out in the first third of the disk so that is null. And what is the point of being a god if the same type of ppl keep on taking you out.(which one happens to be a 10 year old kid(the type is spiky haired heroes))

The mom thing was the part left in the tube so it was more like he was taking her out of a tube.(If you are talking about another part IDK about please tell me which part.)

Adam Goetz:
Your healer is taken out in the first third of the disk so that is null.

Explain why it's null. Aeris had quite a lot of character development in that first third of the disk, more than some characters have in the entire game.

And what is the point of being a god if the same type of ppl keep on taking you out.(which one happens to be a 10 year old kid(the type is spiky haired heroes))

So a villain that is thwarted loses all his credentials? I beg to differ.

Anyway, those are my arguments. You don't have to agree with them. Whether someone thinks someone else is badass or not is mostly subjective really.

My problem is not the him being defeated many times. It was with the fact that he is not even trying "Acording to FF dev team."(that is in quotes because ppl tell me that but i have yet to find the article.)

I will admit that Aeris is a good plot character. But she is not a good story. She is a flat character like everyone who has no development past the hi I am stage of the game. her only reason for being is to die, and she is never that much help to the party. (mainly because you can make anyone your healer.)

The sad part is seven could have been the greatest RPG of all time if the characters weren't so bland.
(I am not trolling I am just putting out my opinion and thank you for giving me yours.)

He's an excellent example of an anti-Ubermensch as presented in videogame form.

As flawed as his ideology is, there is no denying the sheer amount of strength of character Sephiroth showed to get where he was. He went from being a soldier taking orders from a corporate oligarchy, to becoming a god-like figure manipulating world events and trying to attain immortality. He has the strength and prowess to be an Ubermensch, but is simply too sociopathic/batshit insane to rise to the challenge.

Cloud, in contrast, is the perfect example of an Ubermensch in gaming form: he is an outsider, one not constrained by the typical laws and morals of society. He does, after all, spend most of the game using his BFS to kill monsters and enemies. He is a hugely talented warrior, and as the game progressed can gain some truly frightening abilities.

However, despite his fighting prowess, Cloud spends the first chunk the game not really knowing what he is fighting for. He is fighting Sephiroth because others tell him that it is the right thing to do. It is only when Tifa rescues him that he is able to work out his own morality: he is going to fight Sephiroth because he believes that it is the right thing to do. This is hugely important: Cloud doesn't fight Sephiroth because it's what the law says he should do, or because his religions says he should. He fights Sephiroth because he decides that helping others and ridding the world of such a great menace is the right thing to do.

Sephiroth, therefore, stands as a contrast to Cloud. Cloud is the character who has both incredible physical prowess as well as the ability to live by his own moral code to the benefit of himself and others. Sephiroth, on the other hand, is a flawed Ubermench: he has nigh-unlimited physical strength and power, but lacks the emotional and mental maturity to be able to transcend his limitations and become the true Ubermensch. Where Cloud can see how his strength and prowess can be used to better shape the world, Sephiroth seeks only to destroy it and force it into his submission. Sephiroth is the typical Nietzxhe wannabe, whereas Cloud stands as a true example of what Nietzche was arguing about in the first place.

And that is why Sephiroth is a great villain.

I remember thinking when you play the flashback right after you leave Midgar (spoilers, I guess? Y'know what... it's 15 years old. I think the statute of limitations has run out on FF7 spoilers) that he didn't really seem that strong. I mean sure he takes out a dragon in like two hits, but you go to Mount Nibel at like level 25... that's kiddie stuff. I used to think it was just some weird oversight on the part of the game designers or laziness.

But when I got older I realized that that was actually totally appropriate because at the time (in the flashback) he is still way stronger than everyone, but there's no way Cloud would want to challenge him to a fight (uh... five years? I think it was five) five years later unless he knew he was stronger than Sephiroth had been back then. His old buddy would only be more powerful than ever.

My favorite Harry Potter book is the Sixth one (stay with me, I've got a point), and one of the things I like about it is that Voldemort is not in it. I could go check to be sure, but I'm too lazy. I'm fairly certain though that while he does appear in Pensieve memories, he never shows up in the flesh for the whole book, but nonetheless his presence is felt by all and he has his fingers in everyone's pudding (so to speak). I like that... a villain that can survive on menace alone is a good one, I think.

Sephiroth is much the same. After the events on the Great Glacier at the beginning of Disc 2, you don't see Sephiroth again until the final fight (again: except for flashbacks of course), but there's still a good sense of urgency and everything bad that's happening is because of his tremendous power and anger.

As an example of how NOT to do this, take Ultimecia from FF8. Yeah, she doesn't ever show up in person until the end, but you never really get to see a display of her power, so the player has no real investment in the threat she poses. You just have to take the characters' words for it that she is dangerous. We get to see Sephiroth kill a dragon, impale the Midgard Serpent, murder the whole crew of a ship, and pull a meteor out of the goddamned sky all while staying at least one step ahead of a team of (mostly) trained professionals. The stakes are laid out, and the challenge is laid out.

So that's why I like him, anyway.

I would like to thank the poster of this mainly the last two for their in depth analyses of the game overall. The main reason for this post, I have hidden until now, is how people perceive a villain in a video game. I am currently in school for game design, this is not for a paper this is for me. I am happy for the non-fan-boy flames that I was expecting.

With the last two I got perceived menace and the contrast that they can bring to the heroes. I personally did not like him. I viewed him as weak, sick, and having extreme Hubris. To me he was more of an inconvenience rather than a driving force. I have to kill this messed up guy, can't I just lock him in the loony bin. Maybe it was the flashback with him in the library and the part where he actually goes off the deep end that made me think of this. Advent children and crisis core did not help my view any. But that actually helped me get through the game. I have to stop the messed up guy because I am the only one who can. If I didn't see him in that light I may not have finished the game. (I was never attached to cloud, the game never gave me a reason to care about him.)

I look at the villains that I do enjoy Sin, Glados, Andrew Ryan, and Dromin to name a few, that have that presence in a game that draws you two them. Why is this god like entity destroying and roaming Spira; why did I make this devil's pact; why must I continue on to the next room? I feel they not only leave a presence but also a curiosity to the player. I know Sephiroth didn't do it for me but he did it for a lot of people.

I want to say that most people enjoy Sephiroth for his compelling character arc, but I honestly don't think that's the case. Certainly, there are people who feel that way (I count myself among those people), but I feel like the majority of Sephiroth's fanbase is drawn to him because he fits the "silver-haired bishounen" trope to a T. Even the nickname "Sephie" is indicative of how these people perceive him.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:
He's an excellent example of an anti-Ubermensch as presented in videogame form.

As flawed as his ideology is, there is no denying the sheer amount of strength of character Sephiroth showed to get where he was. He went from being a soldier taking orders from a corporate oligarchy, to becoming a god-like figure manipulating world events and trying to attain immortality. He has the strength and prowess to be an Ubermensch, but is simply too sociopathic/batshit insane to rise to the challenge.

Cloud, in contrast, is the perfect example of an Ubermensch in gaming form: he is an outsider, one not constrained by the typical laws and morals of society. He does, after all, spend most of the game using his BFS to kill monsters and enemies. He is a hugely talented warrior, and as the game progressed can gain some truly frightening abilities.

However, despite his fighting prowess, Cloud spends the first chunk the game not really knowing what he is fighting for. He is fighting Sephiroth because others tell him that it is the right thing to do. It is only when Tifa rescues him that he is able to work out his own morality: he is going to fight Sephiroth because he believes that it is the right thing to do. This is hugely important: Cloud doesn't fight Sephiroth because it's what the law says he should do, or because his religions says he should. He fights Sephiroth because he decides that helping others and ridding the world of such a great menace is the right thing to do.

Sephiroth, therefore, stands as a contrast to Cloud. Cloud is the character who has both incredible physical prowess as well as the ability to live by his own moral code to the benefit of himself and others. Sephiroth, on the other hand, is a flawed Ubermench: he has nigh-unlimited physical strength and power, but lacks the emotional and mental maturity to be able to transcend his limitations and become the true Ubermensch. Where Cloud can see how his strength and prowess can be used to better shape the world, Sephiroth seeks only to destroy it and force it into his submission. Sephiroth is the typical Nietzxhe wannabe, whereas Cloud stands as a true example of what Nietzche was arguing about in the first place.

And that is why Sephiroth is a great villain.

Good point, well said. Also, the casual killer thing has always appealed to people in a bad-guy.

i have no idea, he's a poser far as I'm concerned, anything he's done some one else did, better, and to greater effect, and that's with out even leaving the FF games.

Killing player characters:
Exdeath, FF5: killed Gualf in a heroic last stand, where not even the most powerful of spells or attacks could harm him

Golbez, FF4: killed Tella indirectly, Tella used Meteo, which in Tella's old age he could not handle

FF2: LOTS of player characters die in this i'm told, never could get into the game but, there's a whole bonus section of the GBA release where you play as every one that died in the after life

Honorable mention, Lavos: he killed THE main character, Chrono, leaving you to finish the game with out one of the main party, unless you finished the side quest to bring him back, but that's be side the point.

also, note that all these characters are actually worth a damn in battle, and in most cases, also better over all characters

Killing Worlds:
Kefka, FF6: half way through, he destroys his world, and leaves it in such a state of ruin it's literally deing around him, not that he cares, its what he wanted.

Kuja, FF9: he dose it in a cut-scene, and its not the same world your on, but he dose, so it counts

Exdeath, FF5: technically, he actually remakes a world from two halves that where split, but it could also be argued, he destroyed those worlds to remake the old world as well.

Motivation:
Golbez, FF4: he's being controlled by a monster/demon/alien ... thing, called Zeromus, for his own resurrection/release but he was also jealous of Cecile (as stated in the DS remake)

Kefka, FF6: driven insane by the experiments done on him, i think .... i always chalked it up to him being FF's version of The Joker really ....

Exdeath, FF5: he wants the power of the void, for destroying everything? sorry, its been awhile since i played FF5, which is why Kuja isn't getting a spot here since i don't remember what his/her/it's deal was at all

compared to ....
Sepharoth.
player characters killed: one, and she wasn't really that good for anything anyway, even if you factor in Crisis Core it still only one player character
Worlds destoryed: LOL, moving on....
Motivation: but hurt about being 'a clone', except he's NOT a clone, he's genetically engineered, he has a mom, that carried him in her womb, a dad that knocked her up (FOR SCIENCE!!!) so his whole argument kinda falls apart. (not to mention FF7s whole idea of 'cloning' is fucked up anyway).

he dose how ever do one thing other FF villains haven't done well, stand around looking badass, cause... ya know, he's got nothing else going for him

Kitsuna10060:
i have no idea, he's a poser far as I'm concerned, anything he's done some one else did, better, and to greater effect, and that's with out even leaving the FF games.

Killing player characters:
Exdeath, FF5: killed Gualf in a heroic last stand, where not even the most powerful of spells or attacks could harm him

Golbez, FF4: killed Tella indirectly, Tella used Meteo, which in Tella's old age he could not handle

FF2: LOTS of player characters die in this i'm told, never could get into the game but, there's a whole bonus section of the GBA release where you play as every one that died in the after life

Honorable mention, Lavos: he killed THE main character, Chrono, leaving you to finish the game with out one of the main party, unless you finished the side quest to bring him back, but that's be side the point.

also, note that all these characters are actually worth a damn in battle, and in most cases, also better over all characters

Killing Worlds:
Kefka, FF6: half way through, he destroys his world, and leaves it in such a state of ruin it's literally deing around him, not that he cares, its what he wanted.

Kuja, FF9: he dose it in a cut-scene, and its not the same world your on, but he dose, so it counts

Exdeath, FF5: technically, he actually remakes a world from two halves that where split, but it could also be argued, he destroyed those worlds to remake the old world as well.

Motivation:
Golbez, FF4: he's being controlled by a monster/demon/alien ... thing, called Zeromus, for his own resurrection/release but he was also jealous of Cecile (as stated in the DS remake)

Kefka, FF6: driven insane by the experiments done on him, i think .... i always chalked it up to him being FF's version of The Joker really ....

Exdeath, FF5: he wants the power of the void, for destroying everything? sorry, its been awhile since i played FF5, which is why Kuja isn't getting a spot here since i don't remember what his/her/it's deal was at all

compared to ....
Sepharoth.
player characters killed: one, and she wasn't really that good for anything anyway, even if you factor in Crisis Core it still only one player character
Worlds destoryed: LOL, moving on....
Motivation: but hurt about being 'a clone', except he's NOT a clone, he's genetically engineered, he has a mom, that carried him in her womb, a dad that knocked her up (FOR SCIENCE!!!) so his whole argument kinda falls apart. (not to mention FF7s whole idea of 'cloning' is fucked up anyway).

he dose how ever do one thing other FF villains haven't done well, stand around looking badass, cause... ya know, he's got nothing else going for him

OH!! and one more thing :D

DANCING MAD IS BETTER THEN ONE WINGED ANGEL

I've never actually met anybody who actually liked Sephiroth. Fact.

Sephie's too much of a mummie's boy for me to like him.

Because he can kick the ass of one of the most overpowered characters in gaming history (Sora, of Kingdom Hearts), in the space of about 3 seconds, if you're not amazing at the game.

;_; I never managed to beat him.

....Ok, yeah, this has nothing to do with FF7, I realize. Sorry. >_>

Sephiroth is fine, but Kefka is about 200% more awesome.

To everyone who claims that Aeris is useless: She saved the world from meteor, singlehandedly, by casting holy right before she died. Also you can make her kick almost as much ass as Cloud if you equip her with asskick materia. Her limit breaks are the only thing that make her a healer/buffbot unless you equip her to be one.

I still think materia is the best levelling system in all FF's. Cover and 10 Counter materia maxed FTW.

Killertje:
To everyone who claims that Aeris is useless: She saved the world from meteor, singlehandedly, by casting holy right before she died. Also you can make her kick almost as much ass as Cloud if you equip her with asskick materia. Her limit breaks are the only thing that make her a healer/buffbot unless you equip her to be one.

I still think materia is the best levelling system in all FF's. Cover and 10 Counter materia maxed FTW.

You're forgetting 4x cut and flash =p

well I meet Sephiroth in Kingdom hearts 2 and I have to say that was a great dual. He was not a main villain so to speak but offered such a nice challenge that I really appreciate the fact he was there. That said, the fact that after beating him he was like "well only cloud can beat me *sigh*" made me feel slightly useless almost as if I was just substitute rival to cloud.

the alchemy between Cloud and Sephiroth seems artificial in KH, my theory is that Sephiroth is cloud's heartless and that would explain why Cloud is such a nobody... it makes sense in KH.

My take is a pretty simple one:

I don't think Sephiroth himself is a great villain, but the atmosphere he (And his actions) creates are what make a great villain. Remember in Nibelheim how he was reading through all of the books of the Shinra mansion as if possessed? That was in the flashback, but it wasn't the "insanity" itself that sells him as a villain (imo) it is the -atmosphere-. Remember the backing music of his insanity?

Now later in the game, you return to Nibelheim (5 years later) and in the same mansion it appears unchanged to what you see in the flashback, HOWEVER, the atmosphere dictated by the music and the apparent abandonment of the mansion just build on it and fill the place with Sephiroth's presence. The first time I returned there? I genuinely felt tension, expecting to meet Sephiroth and have to battle him at any moment.

Later in the game, it isn't Sephiroth's presence, but the presence of his act (Meteor) and the weight it bears on all of the people bearing witness to it and how various attempts continue to fail to prevent the act. Also, remember the post-meteor summoning music? That sets the theme behind the world again and makes it an oppressive presence (And you can't even SEE meteor outside of cutscenes/story dumps). If you've played LoZ: Majora's Mask, it's a similar concept there, there is evidently a villain behind it, but it is the act itself that has the presence and dictates the atmosphere.

As far as villains go, Sephiroth isn't bad, but nor is HE great. It is the acts and the -presence- he has that makes him memorable.

Hes a bishonen pretty boy, and its really kawaii and sexy to pair him up with Cloud to have hot sexy times.

You know, I have no f*ing clue. I hate the guy. I hate him because he's a douche, but I hate him even more because he's a douche that everyone and their dog fawns over like he's Jesus or something. Esp. considering from what I recall, he wasn't all that impressive.

Adam Goetz:
Now i preface this with i am not posting this to start a flame war. I would like your opinion on why sephiroth is well liked? (my opinion) I feel any character that does not fight at full strength and loses about five times now cannot be as powerful as they keep on saying he is.

You know it never occurred to me before but most of his supposed badassness is hearsay. Except for one fight with a dragon during a flashback the game never really shows you how badass Sephiroth is. Instead they just have Cloud and a bunch of other characters talk a whole lot about how badass he's supposed to be and we're expected to take their word for it.
Granted they fixed this somewhat with Advent Children and Crisis Core, but the bastard's popularity had already been cemented before they came along, so it still begs to question why the fu- fruit is this guy so popular when, in the original game, we actually see him in action he's pretty pathetic.

EDIT:
Disclaimer: No flaming intended

But he just looks so goddamn awesome... there is only one player that looks cooler, and that is Vincent! Then again, Vincent is also the best FF character through and through, The only one capable of being more awesome than Auron!

Ok I am not talking to the OP as much here but the people who have played played FF games(a lot) who should realise why Sephiroth is supposed to be good and yet have missed why is he is a good villain even if they do not like him.

I know I usually spoiler this stuff so even thought the game is old all plot points in here.


That is what sets him apart from some of the other villains. He manipulates and plans. Now given this I do accept that he does have his flaws as a character as do all villains and he is by no means a perfect one but he is not a bad one.

The problem with Sephiroth is his popularity and FF VIIs old popularity as I don't think it is fair to say it is "over rated" any more. Most people had too high expectations which brings him down. So this and the connotation of "emoness" of him and Cloud do ruin people's view of the game and characters. Despite that only Vincent is close to properly emoish in the games. Even then they all have fairly good reasons for being not 100% emotionally/mentally stable in FF VII.

Honestly, I never felt that his "change to the dark side" was ever well justified or motivated from what we saw in the original game. Hell, I never really thought much of him as a character (villain or not) until Crisis Core, which did far more for making us understand and sympathize with him that FF7 ever did.

Tenbob:
My take is a pretty simple one:

I don't think Sephiroth himself is a great villain, but the atmosphere he (And his actions) creates are what make a great villain. Remember in Nibelheim how he was reading through all of the books of the Shinra mansion as if possessed? That was in the flashback, but it wasn't the "insanity" itself that sells him as a villain (imo) it is the -atmosphere-. Remember the backing music of his insanity?

Now later in the game, you return to Nibelheim (5 years later) and in the same mansion it appears unchanged to what you see in the flashback, HOWEVER, the atmosphere dictated by the music and the apparent abandonment of the mansion just build on it and fill the place with Sephiroth's presence. The first time I returned there? I genuinely felt tension, expecting to meet Sephiroth and have to battle him at any moment.

Later in the game, it isn't Sephiroth's presence, but the presence of his act (Meteor) and the weight it bears on all of the people bearing witness to it and how various attempts continue to fail to prevent the act. Also, remember the post-meteor summoning music? That sets the theme behind the world again and makes it an oppressive presence (And you can't even SEE meteor outside of cutscenes/story dumps). If you've played LoZ: Majora's Mask, it's a similar concept there, there is evidently a villain behind it, but it is the act itself that has the presence and dictates the atmosphere.

Don't forget the start of the game. The first few hours, possibly even the first dozen hours or so, you see the effect Sephiroth is having on the world without ever actually seeing him: the murder of the Shinra executive, the absolute massacre your party discovers on breaking out of captivity, the impaling of the Midgar serpent... even before you lay eyes on the guy, he's already murdered a corporate exec and a tower full of his cronies, and planted a hundred foot snake on a tree like a goddamn glove puppet.

There's a very certain kind of atmosphere that can be achieved in games where the player feels like the villain is always just ahead of them out of sight, and instead of them in person, all the player has to witness are their acts of cruelty and destruction. I'm not entirely sure what the technical term is, but when done well, it's a brilliant example of show-don't-tell storytelling: you learn all you need to know from the scenes the villain leaves behind, without even seeing the villain in person. As dates as it is in other areas, FF7 did this brilliantly: before you ever meet Sephiroth, you've come across enough destruction to know that he's one scary motherfucker.

canadamus_prime:

You know it never occurred to me before but most of his supposed badassness is hearsay. Except for one fight with a dragon during a flashback the game never really shows you how badass Sephiroth is. Instead they just have Cloud and a bunch of other characters talk a whole lot about how badass he's supposed to be and we're expected to take their word for it.

Again, not really. Before you ever meet Sephiroth, you've already broken out of jail only to find an entire tower of guards and soldiers slaughtered, and Jenova's entire headless carcass carried off singlehandedly. You've already ascended the Shinra tower, only to find the president has been murdered. You've already crossed the swamp, only to see the 100 foot snake guarding it nailed to a tree. The characters like to talk about how badass Sephiroth is, sure, but before you ever meet him, the game has made sure that you've seen with your own eyes just how destructive and unstoppable he is.

See I never had the problem of overhype for seven. I bought it the day it came out because I loved three on Snes. I am 24. I was happy for a 3d FF game. I would say I ruined the first game experience for my self, mainly I had an issue because of the meds I was taking at the time, I leveled up to level 70 before leaving Midgar. (I know it is hard to believe but my parents put me on Add meds when I didn't have add.) So I was walking around with an everything you can do I can do better mind set the first time around. So you see the snake on a pike, I just killed it. The guards die in one hit. I wanted to kill the fat ass. And the story was dull. I picked up my copy a few years ago, while I was in Iraq, and couldn't even make it to Red 13's home before putting it down for good.

I know I have not lost my love for the series (I still pick up 8, 9 and 10 all the time. If you have a problem with 8 please no flame war.) Here is a new question, Why did FFVII not stand the test of time? (Or did in your opinion.)

I would like to thank all the new posters, you are being very cool and helpful.

Adam Goetz:
See I never had the problem of overhype for seven. I bought it the day it came out because I loved three on Snes. I am 24. I was happy for a 3d FF game. I would say I ruined the first game experience for my self, mainly I had an issue because of the meds I was taking at the time, I leveled up to level 70 before leaving Midgar. (I know it is hard to believe but my parents put me on Add meds when I didn't have add.) So I was walking around with an everything you can do I can do better mind set the first time around. So you see the snake on a pike, I just killed it. The guards die in one hit. I wanted to kill the fat ass. And the story was dull. I picked up my copy a few years ago, while I was in Iraq, and couldn't even make it to Red 13's home before putting it down for good.

I know I have not lost my love for the series (I still pick up 8, 9 and 10 all the time. If you have a problem with 8 please no flame war.) Here is a new question, Why did FFVII not stand the test of time? (Or did in your opinion.)

I would like to thank all the new posters, you are being very cool and helpful.

Your first experience with the game probably ruined it for you. Seriously I think the first time I finished FF7 was at lvl 50 or so. The flashback in Kalm shows you how sephiroth does 3k damage per hit while you yourself do like 40. That snake is extremely hard if not impossible to kill the first time you get there if you play it normally (lvl 10-15 instead of 70). Also ADD medicine makes everything boring, so not the games fault :P

I used to play FF 7-9 at least once a year when I was younger and 7 was by far my favourite. Haven't touched them lately, but I still think 7 is the best FF ever (and everything after 10 should be killed with firaga). I played 7 and 8 on PC (640x480 ftw). Especially the battles look much better on PC than on the PS.

I found it fascinating during the add meds, without it was dull. And even at lvl 15 the game was not challenging me.

aegix drakan:
Because he can kick the ass of one of the most overpowered characters in gaming history (Sora, of Kingdom Hearts), in the space of about 3 seconds, if you're not amazing at the game.

;_; I never managed to beat him.

....Ok, yeah, this has nothing to do with FF7, I realize. Sorry. >_>

He's hard in KH 1, in KH 2 I slap him around as if I were fighting a Toddler, I can easily take him down in under a minute. xD

_______________

Because One-Winged Angel is awesome. I don't know, I haven't played FF7 for years, I can barely recall the main themes of it xD In my mind it is really One-Winged Angel and the way he is presented in Cutscenes in KH2.

I'd say Sephiroth was a better villian than kefka. Why? He was better developed and felt like he influenced the world around him/you a hell of a lot more.

The flashback sequence in Kalm was all the character development he needed. Even in the mock battle with the dragon (where Cloud was normally 1 shotted), Sephiroth proceeded to obliterate the mob with a rather large sword. You got to actually measure his strength relative to yours. And with that, he makes you feel weak. Couple that with actually getting to watch him driven to insanity by the research he does, he creates a very specific atmosphere.

Kefka? People say he destroyed the world. He didn't do shit but push some statues around. His backstory? "I'm crazy cuz I am." His effect on the world? prior to the world of ruin he was an absolute joke. He had a great personality though, which is his only redeeming factor. Also Dancing Mad.

Kefka was great because he was controlling the empire. you knew it from the second he walked into the game. He even poisoned a town of people for fun and killed their most powerful general on a lark. But @Aeonkight why IYO did 7 last.

IMO the battles were too simple, the characters cardboard cutouts, and for the first part of the game you are chasing a mad man with no real reason other than he is messing things up for the people we don't like lets get him.

The cardboard cut outs problem occurred to me at the golden saucer, Barret has a life changing mement with his best friend and has to kill him. Yet at red XIII's place he is back to normal Barret. He could start to change but he is stagnant. This goes for the rest of the cast as well. Cloud never has a true character change he is just the same lines over and over until he gets his story straight

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

canadamus_prime:

You know it never occurred to me before but most of his supposed badassness is hearsay. Except for one fight with a dragon during a flashback the game never really shows you how badass Sephiroth is. Instead they just have Cloud and a bunch of other characters talk a whole lot about how badass he's supposed to be and we're expected to take their word for it.

Again, not really. Before you ever meet Sephiroth, you've already broken out of jail only to find an entire tower of guards and soldiers slaughtered, and Jenova's entire headless carcass carried off singlehandedly. You've already ascended the Shinra tower, only to find the president has been murdered. You've already crossed the swamp, only to see the 100 foot snake guarding it nailed to a tree. The characters like to talk about how badass Sephiroth is, sure, but before you ever meet him, the game has made sure that you've seen with your own eyes just how destructive and unstoppable he is.

Ok first of all the Shinra soldiers were pathetic so that's hardly impressive. Secondly the Shinra President was a fat-ass, so that hardly means anything. Also if I really wanted to be nitpicky I could point out that the only evidence that Sephiroth had even been in the building was that his sword was stuck in the president's back, the same sword he shows up with later. How and when he got it back is anyone's guess. And about that snake, there was no indication that it was actually Sephiroth that killed it, we were all just supposed to assume it was. "OMG there's a giant snake on a spike! Sephiroth must have killed it. OMG there's some graffiti on a wall! Sephiroth must've done it. _

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