EA/Biowares Exploitative Business Practices Made it to Forbes

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boag:

dobahci:

You don't see novelists trying to sell you additional chapters for a fee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_Books

Actually it's much closer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serialized_novel .

In either case the "base book" is sold at a AAA-book base price. BTW, i skipped a lot of the thread, just wanted to dispell the incorrections.

dobahci:

snip

I'm not going to respond directly to any of your points because you basically come across as a professional forum poster. Not professional in the sense that you get paid, but it's basically what you do. You're here to find every little thing to pick on in someone's post.

You have 13 posts on the 5th page of this thread alone. THIRTEEN. That is a lot.

And your attitude. It lacks civility.

boag:
snip

I agree with dobahci. I don't think I've ever seen a septuple post before, ever. That was bizarre. Try quoting multiple people in one post.

dobahci:

snip

I'm not going to respond directly to any of your points because you basically come across as a professional forum poster. Not professional in the sense that you get paid, but it's basically what you do. You're here to find every little thing to pick on in someone's post.

I get bored during downtime at work and I enjoy discussions, sue me.

You have 13 posts on the 5th page of this thread alone. THIRTEEN. That is a lot.
Yes that is a lot, I wish the forum design made it easier to quote posts to reply directly in a single post, but sadly this isnt the case and i have not become accustomed the system enough yet to be able collate all the quotes in the tiny reply space.

And your attitude. It lacks civility.

If it does, I apologize and I would love for you to point it out in detail so that I may refrain from doing it in the future.

boag:
Who said DLC is made to punish consumers?

I didn't. DLC is a legit business scheme.

boag:
PC Gamers are responsible for Shitty FPS flood

That depends. Which flood?
This one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first-person_shooters[/quote]

Because half of that list doesn't consist on console games, right?

And I can't just point at any genre and say "Well, wikipedia does have quite an extensive list!"

It started on PC, and they are good on the PC. They can be good on consoles if you're used to the control scheme.

However, if you mention a flood I am going to assume "shovelware". Which is kind of a console thing. We just get the ports.

Tanakh:

boag:

dobahci:

You don't see novelists trying to sell you additional chapters for a fee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_Books

Actually it's much closer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serialized_novel .

In either case the "base book" is sold at a AAA-book base price. BTW, i skipped a lot of the thread, just wanted to dispell the incorrections.

thank you very much the correction.

McMullen:

dobahci:

snip

I'm not going to respond directly to any of your points because you basically come across as a professional forum poster. Not professional in the sense that you get paid, but it's basically what you do. You're here to find every little thing to pick on in someone's post.

You have 13 posts on the 5th page of this thread alone. THIRTEEN. That is a lot.

And your attitude. It lacks civility.

boag:
snip

I agree with dobahci. I don't think I've ever seen a septuple post before, ever. That was bizarre. Try quoting multiple people in one post.

im sorry, its very hard with this system, if its against the rules I will stop doing it and try to format the replies several at the time.

i read the rules but there was nothing about Double posting and ive seen other people doing it, so i just assumed it was ok. i will be looking for a mod to ask though, can you point me in the right direction?

boag:
yep, console right? its not like they started on the PC right?

Halo predates both, it was made focused on Xbox and owes its success to it, features cinematic corridors, regenerative health and annoying teenage filled MP. Has a lot more in common with the current CoD than Battlefield 1942 (which was awesome and i am almost sure you have never played).

boag:
thank you very much the correction.

Fun trivia! El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha is commonly regarded as a serialized novel, and today i found out it is not according to the netz.

For mayor works of literature in that format i would need to think of Gargantua and Pantagruel now -.-

ElPatron:

boag:
Who said DLC is made to punish consumers?

I didn't. DLC is a legit business scheme.

It is legit, but it is also retarded and only punishes consumers, not that is made for that of course...

The article is simply wrong in saying that the consumer is showing companies that we will pay $60-$70 for a brand new game. I look at steam and see many games selling ridiculously fast when released at the $20-$30 price range. What's more, is that the devs for these games are the last ones to complain about piracy and loss of profits and actually the first to happily claim that their launch was a huge success.

The market is speaking when that kind of thing happens and I can only assume that EA/Bioware is ignoring the subtleties of what the consumer is saying through increased piracy of their overpriced games and purchase of second-hand games (which is now apparently an issue despite being around since the dawn of video gaming). It's like EA/Bioware aren't able to catch on so instead they bludgeon the market with overpriced games and a ton of expensive and sub-par DLC in order to milk their cash-cow even more. They remind me of a confused child resorting to aggression to deal with a frustrating situation.

I've been impressed with Remedy recently with their PC release of Alan Wake at the reasonable price of $35 on Steam. They simply told Pirates to enjoy the game, made no fuss and released the complete edition of the game too. They made their money within hours of the release. This is why saying that companies know we will buy their game at any price because we, as the consumer have shown them we, will is simply untrue. We've just showed them the opposite is a much better, more viable option in the case of Alan Wake.

McMullen:

dobahci:

snip

I'm not going to respond directly to any of your points because you basically come across as a professional forum poster. Not professional in the sense that you get paid, but it's basically what you do. You're here to find every little thing to pick on in someone's post.

You have 13 posts on the 5th page of this thread alone. THIRTEEN. That is a lot.

And your attitude. It lacks civility.

boag:
snip

I agree with dobahci. I don't think I've ever seen a septuple post before, ever. That was bizarre. Try quoting multiple people in one post.

Bite us! I am wating on the delivery food. Normally i am here while uploading-downloading data, compiling or waiting on something, so... lots of chain posts.

Tanakh:

ElPatron:

boag:
Who said DLC is made to punish consumers?

I didn't. DLC is a legit business scheme.

It is legit, but it is also retarded and only punishes consumers, not that is made for that of course...

Yes becuase, at least for the most part, providing more content,faster, and cheaper punishes consumers?

xxcloud417xx:
The article is simply wrong in saying that the consumer is showing companies that we will pay $60-$70 for a brand new game.

He oversimplified obv, but it's all about profit, if you are EA and can increase the price of your product by 16.6% and lose only 10% of the customers, then you do it; if you lose 16.6% of your customers at launch, then you still do it, if you lose 20% then you still do it (because the game price will get slashed, the DLC wont and it gives the company better profit margins anyway). They are betting they won't lose 20% or more than buyers, and I reckon they are right, is good short therm buisness practice, it's also being a duche but whatever.

ElPatron:

boag:
Who said DLC is made to punish consumers?

I didn't. DLC is a legit business scheme.

boag:
PC Gamers are responsible for Shitty FPS flood

That depends. Which flood?
This one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first-person_shooters

Because half of that list doesn't consist on console games, right?
yes, but please notice how more than half, including those on consoles are on the PC

And I can't just point at any genre and say "Well, wikipedia does have quite an extensive list!"

It started on PC, and they are good on the PC. They can be good on consoles if you're used to the control scheme.

However, if you mention a flood I am going to assume "shovelware". Which is kind of a console thing. We just get the ports.[/quote]

oh please, direct me to a title of Shovelware that does not have a PC port.

Tanakh:

boag:
yep, console right? its not like they started on the PC right?

Halo predates both,
and castle Wolfenstein predates all, whats your point?

it was made focused on Xbox and owes its success to it, features cinematic corridors, regenerative health and annoying teenage filled MP. Has a lot more in common with the current CoD than Battlefield 1942 (which was awesome and i am almost sure you have never played).

You assume correctly, my enjoyment of FPS ended with unreal tourney, because it was the same fucking thing over and over and over again. Take a first person, grab the guns and shoot shoot shoot, if anything i would be a bit grateful to halo for actually forcing these games to have a story instead of just jumping into X period shoot them all scenarios, but hey, guess what, you allowed to like your FPS as I am allowed to not like them, they are both perfectly valid opinions for each.

The only thing this whole conversation has helped to do is further show just how badly these arguments can get when brass stupid generalizations are used, because often time they will be opinion based and someone out there will not have the same opinion. thank you for contributing to the example.

SajuukKhar:

Tanakh:

ElPatron:

I didn't. DLC is a legit business scheme.

It is legit, but it is also retarded and only punishes consumers, not that is made for that of course...

Yes becuase, at least for the most part, providing more content,faster, and cheaper punishes consumers?

OMG! Sorry, i missread for DRM! lolz

DLC... i judge it on a case by case basis. Think ME 2 did it right and ME 3 is doing it right to earn money, but being too much in your face about giving a rat's ass about you, just caring about your money.

Tanakh:
OMG! Sorry, i missread for DRM! lolz

DLC... i judge it on a case by case basis. Think ME 2 did it right and ME 3 is doing it right to earn money, but being too much in your face about giving a rat's ass about you, just caring about your money.

Lol,

DRM is pretty stupid, I will agree with that.

I am glad Valve was able to make a program that functions like DRM but also has good stuff with it.

boag:
You assume correctly, my enjoyment of FPS ended with unreal tourney, because it was the same fucking thing over and over and over again. Take a first person, grab the guns and shoot shoot shoot, if anything i would be a bit grateful to halo for actually forcing these games to have a story instead of just jumping into X period shoot them all scenarios, but hey, guess what, you allowed to like your FPS as I am allowed to not like them, they are both perfectly valid opinions for each.

The only thing this whole conversation has helped to do is further show just how badly these arguments can get when brass stupid generalizations are used, because often time they will be opinion based and someone out there will not have the same opinion. thank you for contributing to the example.

Ohh... ok, but i was mislead due your use of "shitty FPS flood". Normally it is used to describe modern FPS and third person shooters which were historically popularized by consoles, it seems you use it to say multiplayer FPS in which case, yeah PC was the craddle of those.

Bad luck, as a TF2, SC2, DotA2, etc pvp junkie i enjoy the current MP with classic approach. Not so keen on CoD MP, and boy, if you dont like MP, Battlefield is indeed a shitty game, just as if you don't like plataformers almost every mario game is crap.

boag:
are you implying that EA/Bioware are going to charge for patches and modding that the community does?

First, let's clarify that EA does not release any modding tools for their Mass Effect games. Players have hacked together a few textures and tweaks, but this is nothing compared to giving players the tools that are used to make all of the game environments, cut scenes, and so on, totally opening the game the way Bethesda does.

With that said, no I was not implying that EA would charge players money for the limited tweaks that they allow players to make with no official modding tools.

Are you implying that the DLC that Bethesda is already finished developing and will launch soon, will somehow be exent from the "They should have released it for free" crowd?

No, my point is that we already know all about the Day-1 ME 3 DLC even though it hasn't launched yet, but 4 months after the launch of Skyrim we haven't seen any specifics about any DLC.

Are you implying that the Author of the Book is being payed by Bioware to state the blatantly obvious?

I'm not insuating a direct pay check, the links between EA and Forbes are much deeper than the need to pay for a one-off story. In 2007, 40% of Forbes was sold to the private equity firm Elevation Partners for $300 million. The founders of this equity firm are:

Roger McNamee, Marc Bodnick, Fred Anderson, John Riccitiello, Bono

Riccitiello just happens to be the CEO of Electronic Arts. I guess that's just a crazy coincidence.

If you are, you might have a future in the wonderful world of journalism, please send your resume here careers.foxnews.com

I made an easy to understand comparison with a very successful game that did not have launch DLC. To any neutral observer, this shows how biased the Forbes article is, to ignore the fact that one of the most successful games of last year has not had any DLC yet. But you dissected my obvious comparison into three Straw Man questions, asking me to defend propositions I obviously didn't assert. No wonder you know so much about recruiting for fox news.

Whine I hear the word 'exploitation' connected to a company, I think third world sweatshops and child labour.

Not a bunch of gamers whining about how they don't get all the content that they want and how popular stuff sucks.

Wow these Mass Effect 3 DLC threads are spreading like an STD.

Here's a thought: Don't want to pay 70USD for this game with the Prothean DLC? Don't. Wait a few months, go on amazon, pay 30USD for the game, realize that you can enjoy it without paying 10USD for a sidequest. As much as I disagree with the Forbes article author, he has a point. YOU CAN LIVE WITHOUT THE DLC.

Also, cancel your cable subscription. There is never anything on that hasn't gone on for 16 seasons.

boag:
oh please, direct me to a title of Shovelware that does not have a PC port.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.... If shovelware games stayed on consoles, I would have no reason to complain that my favorite franchises have decided to sink to shovelware level.

Also, you seem convinced FPS are SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT and somehow a list full of FPS are the spawn of the Devil.

- You need to play more FPS games
- You need to check how many RPGs exist. Really. If FPS are a flood then RPGs are a plague.

Tanakh:

ElPatron:

boag:
Who said DLC is made to punish consumers?

I didn't. DLC is a legit business scheme.

It is legit, but it is also retarded and only punishes consumers, not that is made for that of course...

It is legit because "we" made it that way. That's my whole point, DLC and DRM are not comparable.

Tanakh:
Fun trivia! El ingenioso hidalgo Don Quijote de la Mancha is commonly regarded as a serialized novel, and today i found out it is not according to the netz.

For mayor works of literature in that format i would need to think of Gargantua and Pantagruel now -.-

Way off of the original topic now, but I can say that The Count of Monte Cristo by Dumas definitely was serialized. That's one I can name off the top of my head.

boag:
Last I remember Expansion packs were usually 15 - 5 dollars cheaper than the original game, show me an instance where it wasnt and ill concede the argument to you.

You remember wrong.

Battlefield 2: Euro Force and Battlefield 2: Armored Fury.

Maps, vehicles, weapons, new factions. It's like buying the multiplayer section of a Call of Duty game, and they were released for 12 bucks, I think.

The F.E.A.R. expansions were pretty cheap on launch too, but I can't find prices.

The FEAR expansions were god awful abominations so bad that Monolith denounced them and made them non-canon.

xxcloud417xx:
The article is simply wrong in saying that the consumer is showing companies that we will pay $60-$70 for a brand new game. I look at steam and see many games selling ridiculously fast when released at the $20-$30 price range. What's more, is that the devs for these games are the last ones to complain about piracy and loss of profits and actually the first to happily claim that their launch was a huge success.

Except in Mass Effect 3 we're talking about a game that's gone gold on presales alone. Modern Warfare 3 set sales records last year with a full-price release. Skyrim sold a boatload of copies on release too. So consumers are willing to pay $60-$70 if the game is right.

There's a big difference between AAA titles like those and the games that sell for $20-$30 on Steam, and it's no surprise that they're marketed and "milked" in different ways. And those $20-$30 Steam games may sell fast, but how many do they sell in total? Keep in mind that they have to sell at least twice as many to make the same revenue.

SajuukKhar:
The FEAR expansions were god awful abominations so bad that Monolith denounced them and made them non-canon.

Oh, they weren't that bad. They did kill off Jin and Holiday, which kinda ticked me off.

AD-Stu:

xxcloud417xx:
The article is simply wrong in saying that the consumer is showing companies that we will pay $60-$70 for a brand new game. I look at steam and see many games selling ridiculously fast when released at the $20-$30 price range. What's more, is that the devs for these games are the last ones to complain about piracy and loss of profits and actually the first to happily claim that their launch was a huge success.

Except in Mass Effect 3 we're talking about a game that's gone gold on presales alone. Modern Warfare 3 set sales records last year with a full-price release. Skyrim sold a boatload of copies on release too. So consumers are willing to pay $60-$70 if the game is right.

There's a big difference between AAA titles like those and the games that sell for $20-$30 on Steam, and it's no surprise that they're marketed and "milked" in different ways. And those $20-$30 Steam games may sell fast, but how many do they sell in total? Keep in mind that they have to sell at least twice as many to make the same revenue.

Well there's this data by Valve from back in 2009: http://www.shacknews.com/article/57308/valve-left-4-dead-half

Valve co-founder Gabe Newell announced during a DICE keynote today that last weekend's half-price sale of Left 4 Dead resulted in a 3000% increase in sales of the game, posting overall sales that beat the title's original launch performance.

Newell also mentioned that new Steam customers jumped 1600% over the same weekend, according to G4TV. Retail sales remained constant.

Sales of Team Fortress 2 went up 106% following a free update to the game. Retail wasn't left out in this case, with sales jumping 28%.

The massive Steam holiday sale was also a big win for Valve and its partners. The following holiday sales data was released, showing the sales breakdown organized by price reduction:

* 10% sale = 35% increase in sales (real dollars, not units shipped)
* 25% sale = 245% increase in sales
* 50% sale = 320% increase in sales
* 75% sale = 1470% increase in sales

Furthermore, Valve has hired an experimental psychologist to maximize the excitement of Steam sales and other marketing opportunities. According to Newell, one suggestion by the psychologist was to provide one free copy of a Valve game to every 25th buyer of Left 4 Dead.

I'm buying the game still I just wont be buying the DLC. If I want to play it their are other ways of obtaining DLC than buying it... Just sayin.

Tanakh:

boag:
You assume correctly, my enjoyment of FPS ended with unreal tourney, because it was the same fucking thing over and over and over again. Take a first person, grab the guns and shoot shoot shoot, if anything i would be a bit grateful to halo for actually forcing these games to have a story instead of just jumping into X period shoot them all scenarios, but hey, guess what, you allowed to like your FPS as I am allowed to not like them, they are both perfectly valid opinions for each.

The only thing this whole conversation has helped to do is further show just how badly these arguments can get when brass stupid generalizations are used, because often time they will be opinion based and someone out there will not have the same opinion. thank you for contributing to the example.

Ohh... ok, but i was mislead due your use of "shitty FPS flood". Normally it is used to describe modern FPS and third person shooters which were historically popularized by consoles, it seems you use it to say multiplayer FPS in which case, yeah PC was the craddle of those.

Bad luck, as a TF2, SC2, DotA2, etc pvp junkie i enjoy the current MP with classic approach. Not so keen on CoD MP, and boy, if you dont like MP, Battlefield is indeed a shitty game, just as if you don't like plataformers almost every mario game is crap.

Well I dont really find much appeal for the multiplayer FPS, even though Surprisingly ive enjoyed the ME3 Multiplayer Demo. It just goes to further show how bad generalizations are, there will always be exceptions.

isometry:

boag:
are you implying that EA/Bioware are going to charge for patches and modding that the community does?

First, let's clarify that EA does not release any modding tools for their Mass Effect games.

Agreed.
Players have hacked together a few textures and tweaks, but this is nothing compared to giving players the tools that are used to make all of the game environments, cut scenes, and so on, totally opening the game the way Bethesda does.
Completely Agree

With that said, no I was not implying that EA would charge players money for the limited tweaks that they allow players to make with no official modding tools.

Are you implying that the DLC that Bethesda is already finished developing and will launch soon, will somehow be exent from the "They should have released it for free" crowd?

No, my point is that we already know all about the Day-1 ME 3 DLC even though it hasn't launched yet, but 4 months after the launch of Skyrim we haven't seen any specifics about any DLC.

Are you implying that the Author of the Book is being payed by Bioware to state the blatantly obvious?

I'm not insuating a direct pay check, the links between EA and Forbes are much deeper than the need to pay for a one-off story. In 2007, 40% of Forbes was sold to the private equity firm Elevation Partners for $300 million. The founders of this equity firm are:

Roger McNamee, Marc Bodnick, Fred Anderson, John Riccitiello, Bono

Riccitiello just happens to be the CEO of Electronic Arts. I guess that's just a crazy coincidence.
Dude, Carlos Slim Owns a percentage of every industry on the Planet, that doesnt make him king of the world.

If you are, you might have a future in the wonderful world of journalism, please send your resume here careers.foxnews.com

I made an easy to understand comparison with a very successful game that did not have launch DLC. To any neutral observer, this shows how biased the Forbes article is, to ignore the fact that one of the most successful games of last year has not had any DLC yet.
But you dissected my obvious comparison into three Straw Man questions, asking me to defend propositions I obviously didn't assert. No wonder you know so much about recruiting for fox news.

Indeed, A strawman for a strawman, You are hardly neutral on the topic, you compare Skyrim A game that is solely developed by Bethesda, that has development cycle longer than the project Development of ME3 and play up against the hatred for the Bioware with the Fact that Bethesda are pretty cool people.

Comparing business practices just to get your point across, is not neutral at all.

but Lets get back on topic, Bethesda already had planned a DLC for Skyrim, just like it did for Fallout, the release dates were already in the production schedule and its pretty much a given that there will be 4 DLC packs available.

Just because Bioware is releasing theirs early doesnt make them thieves, scammers, or what have you.

ElPatron:

boag:
oh please, direct me to a title of Shovelware that does not have a PC port.

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude.... If shovelware games stayed on consoles, I would have no reason to complain that my favorite franchises have decided to sink to shovelware level.

Tell me, how are you absolutely certain it isnt the other way around? And what favorite Franchises are being debased by this move to shovelware?

also please point out what you mean by shovelware, just to acertain we have the same definition.

Also, you seem convinced FPS are SHOOT SHOOT SHOOT and somehow a list full of FPS are the spawn of the Devil.

Re read my post

- You need to play more FPS games
No i dont

- You need to check how many RPGs exist. Really. If FPS are a flood then RPGs are a plague.
I carefully select what I play, maybe if you did the same you wouldnt be in such a predicament

Tanakh:

ElPatron:

I didn't. DLC is a legit business scheme.

It is legit, but it is also retarded and only punishes consumers, not that is made for that of course...

Please detail how it punishes consumers, in fact provide an example of how a specific DLC for a specific game punished you.

It is legit because "we" made it that way. That's my whole point, DLC and DRM are not comparable.

you missed the whole point about generalizations didnt you?

ElPatron:

boag:
Last I remember Expansion packs were usually 15 - 5 dollars cheaper than the original game, show me an instance where it wasnt and ill concede the argument to you.

You remember wrong.

Battlefield 2: Euro Force and Battlefield 2: Armored Fury.

Maps, vehicles, weapons, new factions. It's like buying the multiplayer section of a Call of Duty game, and they were released for 12 bucks, I think.

The F.E.A.R. expansions were pretty cheap on launch too, but I can't find prices.

I would help me see your POV if you did find sources, the last Expansion I bought for a game was Brood war for SC, and that cost me like 45 bucks on launch date.

SajuukKhar:

Mad World:
I my opinion, it's pretty pathetic. EA knows that people really enjoy Mass Effect, so they decide to take advantage of people. Yes - people could simply choose not to buy it, but I still consider it to be a selfish money grab. Companies (like EA) want money - and that makes sense. But it still seems immoral; they're simply going too far.

How is completely optional, totally unnecessary, non-plot critical bonus content going too far?

You act like they cut out the ending of the game and are selling it to you.

Name ONE Bioware DLC that was NEEDED to get a FULL game? I will tell you now you wont be able too, because It hasn't been made.

contrary to the Illuminati level conspiracy people try to make EA out to be..... they aren't.

Arrival Is kind of needed for the full game. The people that have not bought it or read spoilers online aren't going to know why the defense committee took away Shepard's ship. It is technically not needed but it does help explain the beginning of Mass Effect 3 a bit more.

gof22:

SajuukKhar:

Mad World:
I my opinion, it's pretty pathetic. EA knows that people really enjoy Mass Effect, so they decide to take advantage of people. Yes - people could simply choose not to buy it, but I still consider it to be a selfish money grab. Companies (like EA) want money - and that makes sense. But it still seems immoral; they're simply going too far.

How is completely optional, totally unnecessary, non-plot critical bonus content going too far?

You act like they cut out the ending of the game and are selling it to you.

Name ONE Bioware DLC that was NEEDED to get a FULL game? I will tell you now you wont be able too, because It hasn't been made.

contrary to the Illuminati level conspiracy people try to make EA out to be..... they aren't.

Arrival Is kind of needed for the full game. The people that have not bought it or read spoilers online aren't going to know why the defense committee took away Shepard's ship. It is technically not needed but it does help explain the beginning of Mass Effect 3 a bit more.

How certain are you that Shepard will not detail to whoever he meets why he was relieved of duty?

How certain are you that shadow broker is needed to understand why Liara is on Mars?

you have either read the spoiler dialogue which details exactly the stuff you are complaining about, or you havent by which you are making a fools assumption.

boag:

gof22:

SajuukKhar:

How is completely optional, totally unnecessary, non-plot critical bonus content going too far?

You act like they cut out the ending of the game and are selling it to you.

Name ONE Bioware DLC that was NEEDED to get a FULL game? I will tell you now you wont be able too, because It hasn't been made.

contrary to the Illuminati level conspiracy people try to make EA out to be..... they aren't.

Arrival Is kind of needed for the full game. The people that have not bought it or read spoilers online aren't going to know why the defense committee took away Shepard's ship. It is technically not needed but it does help explain the beginning of Mass Effect 3 a bit more.

How certain are you that Shepard will not detail to whoever he meets why he was relieved of duty?

How certain are you that shadow broker is needed to understand why Liara is on Mars?

you have either read the spoiler dialogue which details exactly the stuff you are complaining about, or you havent by which you are making a fools assumption.

I wasn't complaining. I was just saying that people that didn't play or read about Arrival aren't going to know right away why Shepard had his/her ship taken away. Unless that is one of the conversations cut from the demo that will be put back in for full release. No, I haven't read the spoilers since this is one of the rare things I don't want spoiled for me.

From the way you are talking about the spoilers it sounds like Bioware has Shepard explain why he was relieved of duty. Which is awesome.

Liara is on Mars? Hopefully she is paying people to do the work for her instead of doing it herself.

I fail to see the arguement in this article. It seems to be; we buy it therefore it's our own fault... but we weren't. Go back a few years and people were taking full advantage of thew used games market. The only reason people buy these overpriced, sparkly add ons now is because you either pay through the nose to play it or you don;t play it at all.

This concept of essentially overspending to get every aspect of game, is a result of companies trying to undermine the used game market. Not because people are perfectly happy to pay for 10 map packs. (Seriously, I have nothing personal agaisnt people that do... but c'mon. Even people that buy these things have to admit it's a little extortionate.)

As I have said before Bioware could have EASILY removed Arrival and put Shep on trial for working with a pro-human terrorist organization and nothing would be different.

It would require changing all of like 5 lines from "killing Batarinas" too "working with Cerberus" and the story would have worked out THE EXACT same way.

I love how people continue to defend Bioware/EA, but it's not my business if someone wants to be exploited. I for one am through with Bioware. I'm done buying there games, not that it really matters. There is still tons of other people willing to be screwed over again and again just because of what company logo is on the box.

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