Microsoft Xbox needs to die.

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I've had my Xbox since release. Never Red ring'ed. Not once.

Microsoft has no more shady business practices than EVERY SINGLE GAME COMPANY KNOWN TO MAN. It's not a problem with them, its a problem with the industry.

here's where opinion and fact become eschewed. My opinion is that the xbox 360 sucks. The only redeeming quality is that they have the best library of exclusives FOR ME. I've owned a ps3, and the only time i used it was for a sony exclusive. Otherwise; it all boiled down to "do I play this on ps3 or xbox?" The latter was always chosen, simply to up my gamerscore. Now I've gone through 4 of these consoles personally. First two RRoD'd and the third went to an E74 error. I decided to test something with this last one. I refused to smoke around it, kept the area nicely ventilated and acceptably dust free. Lo and behold, it works still to this very day. It also doesn't hurt to install your games first. Oh, look. A wall of opinion.

The fact is that MS dropped the ball by bullrushing this console out as early as the did. This is probably why they're only just now revealing the consoles at next years E3 (rumored). Even then, it will be awhile till it gets released.

It damn well better be backward compatible...

Kingme18:

EcksTeaSea:

Shawn MacDonald:
What I hate about these threads is there is always one person who types this line. "This has not been a problem for me and my Xbox works just fine." Just fine and dandy random person on the internet who thinks that everybody else must treat their stuff like crap. Like how mine broke as well and is sitting in my closet never to be played again.

That one random person and bunch of other people. I have only had one 360 break down on me and that was 2 years after launch AND after being thrown down a flight of stairs. On my second 360 and it works perfectly since 2009.

And then that awkward moment where even more people back you up and say that I have owned a 360 for 4 years and it has never been a problem to me ever.... Yeah.

And possibly the most awkward moment that can be had on a forum, when yet another person says that he has owned a 360 Arcade since 2008 and has never had any issues with it.

I must be terribly lucky because my xbox never failed me.

Programmed_For_Damage:
I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

Battlefield 2 Project Reality (so.. much... content...)
Counter Strike
Day of Defeat
Team Fortress
Red Orchestra
Basically any well known mod for the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series
Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines (the game had to be modded by the community to work, lol)

Programmed_For_Damage:
I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

BTW I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've had with your 360's. I've got three in the house (2 Pros and a 360S) and none of them have had any problems.

While I'm fairly certain he's a troll, I agree. On my first xbox, and it's going strong.

One tip I have is keep it horizontal. It puts less pressure on the disc tray.

I'd say it's time for the whole console generation to move on, but I'd also say it's a good thing people have had time to get some real wear out of this generation. I'd hate it if they started trying to get people to shell out for a new console every couple of years (which some people really would do) I feel like we've really had a chance to explore their potential.

So while it is time for a new generation in the next couple of years, we've had a good run, and any outdatedness is hardly xbox exclusive... >_>

Hey, I'm still on my first xbox which I have owned for years, and from the sounds of it, you want an entire console to fail because you aren't satisfied with it. Ok then, I guess the millions of us that actually like it can go jump in a ditch then, apparently if you don't like it it has to go. Also an imperfect economic system, this has been a problem since the dawn of man, and it will be a problem when Humanity is snuffed out, even if that happens billions of years from now.

MrDeckard:
A couple of things.

1) Screw mods. Most are cheats of some kind and while I enjoy SOME mods, most just don't improve my game-play experience enough for me to make the switch to PC. And this IS NOT an invitation for you to suggest ANYTHING!!! I know about ALL the mods you are so dying to tell me about.

2) I, like many others, didn't have much of a problem with the RROD. One time about a year into use, sent it in, had it back for free in less than a month.

3) Power for price. A brand new 360 was $400. A laptop(I move too much to have a desktop) that could do the same thing would have cost around 1000-1500. And I REALLY don't feel like debating this one. In addition to this, PC just isn't as reliable. There is always a problem. With install, with the graphics card, with the in-game content, with the performance. And if you found some deal/computer that blows what I just said away, quite frankly I don't care. I am talking from experience.

4) Exclusive games and ease of use. Not only are there several games I LOVE that are only on 360, but I feel that Xbox LIVE is completely worth it for excellent service, good servers and great accessibility.

If you feel differently, that's fine. I however, will be playing my 360 for a VERY long time.

So...basically what I'm reading here is, "I'm a console fan who doesn't like someone talking trash about my platform. So here are my (ill-informed) thoughts on the matter and I don't care what you have to say because I'm right and don't want someone to prove me wrong."

That's just...just...wow. Not even sure how to respond to that.

Don't worry though, I'm not going to debate any of this with you. It's clear you've no intention on hearing anything but what Microsoft feeds you.

Also, to take a page from your book of 'posting rules', feel free to NOT respond as I'll be extending you the same courtesy you give to others. By that I mean ignoring you.

(Oh, and for the record, I'm NOT a PC elitist. I've owned one or two consoles from every generation since the NES era. So I don't hate consoles. Well, until this current generation that is.)

Char-Nobyl:
snip

For someone who calls into question the validity of someone's claims for lack of 'citations', you seem to make a lot of your own.

Regardless, I'm done with this whole "consoles vs PC" debate. It's beyond childish at this point. Not to mention the sheer level of condescension is just staggering. It's like watching a bunch of Russel Brand clones all arguing with each other.

However, I really must refute one of your "claims". Getting a PC that's at least twice as powerful as the 360 will actually cost you less than a 360. For that matter, building one that can play any game currently available will NOT cost you two grand. Good God man, what? Are you buying some top-of-the-line gaming laptop from Alienware? If so, then you deserve to have the thing die out in a year or two.

As I said in my previous post, I still have my gaming PCs from 2004 and from 1998. They didn't cost me an arm-and-a-leg to build, and they still work fine. I still use the one from '04, in fact.

Likewise, I've had FAR fewer issues with my PCs than I have with my 360. I constantly have to connect to Xbox Live to get my arcade games and DLC to work. I can't even recall how many times I've had to connect to Live just so I could access the DLC for Halo Wars or other games.

PC's don't 'magically' become outdated every few years. Unless your some techophile who just HAS to have the latest tech. Which, if you are, then you really wouldn't be playing on a console, would you?

As for "getting a virus", well, that's all user negligence. If you get one it's your own fault. Not the computers.

If anything, consoles are holding game design back. And I don't just me graphically. (which I'm not too arsed about anyway) Faster, more powerful CPUs and greater RAM/memory capacities would allow for larger, faster, smarter games and NPCs. Just for starters.

Zachary Amaranth:

Iron Criterion:

So I can't contribute to this discussion if my Xbox hasn't broken in the five years I've owned it?

You can, but your console working really doesn't mean much.

Oh so I'm only allowed to quote my personal experiences if they support the "we hate Microsoft" argument.

Quote mining for the win. I mean, his statement was only three sentences long, surely the middle one wasn't so confusing that you couldn't grasp it, or see the continuity involved.

Further, I always have to posit: So what if your system works? What does that mean to this thread?

It means a lot to the thread actually. It's called healthy debate, and for a debate to be successful and not just a flame-war you need differing opinions backed up by personal experience. If we only had a bunch of people with consoles that didn't work berating Microsoft it would paint a very inaccurate but dangerous picture.

And considering you have designated yourself 'intelligent' enough to be condescending toward me, than I hope you can see I was more pointing out how hypocritical and unfair his "your personal experience doesn't count but mine does because it bashes Microsoft" argument was. Really now.

Zeckt:
I am now on my fourth xbox where my first 2 had RROD and third had trouble with the huge bar thing continously turning off and the dvd driver not closing properly. My fourth xbox is the limited gears 3 one which comes with 2 gears of war controllers both of which are screwy. The one had its b button get caved in after 2 weeks and the second continously loses battery power over and over. This is my 5th xbox controller to mess up.

And just look at their live service, where it costs developers 40 thousand dollars for a simple patch on their games. They lured a bunch of small independent developers and with the new update beat them in a corner and charge developers huge amounts of money to put games on the arcade.

With the new patch we are bombarded with advertisements, and they have the guts to raise the price on live for something which really should be free. You have to have an active live account to have access to "perks" like netflix (thats a JOKE) and live ruined any communication with their community with their games. Just look at the sorry state of the dungeon defender dlc, microsoft acts like bloody money grubbing tyrants and just look at how it ruins games that thrive on dlc like l4d or team fortress 2. You cannot mod ANY game on the 360, which makes people who bought skyrim on the 360 insanely jealous of all the fun the pc community gets to have with user created content. Microsoft simply does not ALLOW us access to it because it contradicts their ideals.

Enough is enough! all microsoft accomplishes is strangling developers with their bullshit, and get away with releasing GARBAGE hardware so you have to re-buy the console and controller over and over and they actually have the guts to charge you almost 100$ a year to play games online.

Next gen microsoft NEEDS to lose the race because they are literally keeping gaming in the dark ages with their selfish tactics. In a perfect world everyone would buy games only for the pc so developers / consumers can enjoy freedom and the biggest hurdle for developers would not be the money to make the games, but only their creativity. Will microsoft ever have gems like Cave Story, SOL exodus which is trying to make a space combat comeback, or Terraria? NO, because they ask for way too much money. Microsoft is the equivalent of the church in the dark ages.

What is there to defend about the 360 other then brand loyalty?

4 consoles? that is either incredibly bad luck, or the environment where you put your console is high in salt and or dust.

Also, I understand your anger over the Company, but unless you had a very big and extensive title collection to being with, why in the hell would you buy 4 consoles from the same company if you have had such a dreadful experience?

As a consumer I would have stopped by the 2nd time the console quit on me, or I would have gotten one of those extended guarantees that so many stores want to sell to you these days.

Finally, I understand that you want make people aware of these EVILZ of the company, but the best thing YOU can do as a consumer is just stop buying their products and go to their competition, and if you really want to stick it to them, instead of making a fuzz over it on an internet forum and leaving it at that, i would start talking directly with M$ customer support, recording the calls and posting them for all to see, these usually give you better results and often times free swag to try and shut you up about your nightmarish predicament.

To be honest, I think you've probably just been treating it badly. I've had a few problems with squashed buttons and such on my controllers, but I freely admit that they were all caused by my own hand - When I got overly aggressive playing CoD4 when I was a bit younger.

I've had my xbox for 4 years now, and it has even had the 3 Red rings - I managed to get it working again, and it's now working perfectly again.

Basically I think you've had very bad luck, or you've been treating your consoles badly.

MrDeckard:
A couple of things.

1) Screw mods. Most are cheats of some kind and while I enjoy SOME mods, most just don't improve my game-play experience enough for me to make the switch to PC. And this IS NOT an invitation for you to suggest ANYTHING!!! I know about ALL the mods you are so dying to tell me about.

2) I, like many others, didn't have much of a problem with the RROD. One time about a year into use, sent it in, had it back for free in less than a month.

3) Power for price. A brand new 360 was $400. A laptop(I move too much to have a desktop) that could do the same thing would have cost around 1000-1500. And I REALLY don't feel like debating this one. In addition to this, PC just isn't as reliable. There is always a problem. With install, with the graphics card, with the in-game content, with the performance. And if you found some deal/computer that blows what I just said away, quite frankly I don't care. I am talking from experience.

4) Exclusive games and ease of use. Not only are there several games I LOVE that are only on 360, but I feel that Xbox LIVE is completely worth it for excellent service, good servers and great accessibility.

If you feel differently, that's fine. I however, will be playing my 360 for a VERY long time.

Reading this has made my brain malfunction and given me a headache.

I have used my Xbox 360 almost every day for the past 5 years and after 2 years it red-ringed, since then i've made sure to look after it and the only problem it's had since was when the power brick broke recently and I got one off of a friend.

Do you try and break it? Sure their infamous for breaking but i'd buy a PS3 or something if they kept doing it.

Vigormortis:
For someone who calls into question the validity of someone's claims for lack of 'citations', you seem to make a lot of your own.

Indeed I do, save for the fact that I don't claim numerical data without citation.

Vigormortis:
However, I really must refute one of your "claims". Getting a PC that's at least twice as powerful as the 360 will actually cost you less than a 360.

Interesting. If you've got a place where you can buy a computer with "at least twice" the performance of a 360 for under $250, maximum, I'd love to see it.

Vigormortis:
For that matter, building one that can play any game currently available will NOT cost you two grand. Good God man, what? Are you buying some top-of-the-line gaming laptop from Alienware? If so, then you deserve to have the thing die out in a year or two.

Here's the thing: the only kind of computer I've used regularly for about five years now is a laptop. Having a desktop would be wasteful and inefficient, because half the time when I use my computer I'm not even at home.

That being said, I'm not being sarcastic when I say that if you know where to get a cheap laptop that can run Skyrim better than my 360, I'd love to hear where it is.

Vigormortis:
As I said in my previous post, I still have my gaming PCs from 2004 and from 1998. They didn't cost me an arm-and-a-leg to build, and they still work fine. I still use the one from '04, in fact.

*facepalm*

Okay. So you've been using a computer built with technology from eight years ago and never once, say, swapped out parts to upgrade it? Because that kind of renders the 'built in 2004' thing moot.

Vigormortis:
Likewise, I've had FAR fewer issues with my PCs than I have with my 360. I constantly have to connect to Xbox Live to get my arcade games and DLC to work. I can't even recall how many times I've had to connect to Live just so I could access the DLC for Halo Wars or other games.

Never had that trouble myself. Maybe I just got lucky.

Vigormortis:
PC's don't 'magically' become outdated every few years. Unless your some techophile who just HAS to have the latest tech. Which, if you are, then you really wouldn't be playing on a console, would you?

Or if you've got the know-how to Frankensteins your computer as needed.

Vigormortis:
As for "getting a virus", well, that's all user negligence. If you get one it's your own fault. Not the computers.

Clearly you've never lived in a place with more than one person and a desktop. Laptops at least have the automatic notion of being personal property, but for some reason, desktops are always perceived as communal.

Vigormortis:
If anything, consoles are holding game design back. And I don't just me graphically. (which I'm not too arsed about anyway) Faster, more powerful CPUs and greater RAM/memory capacities would allow for larger, faster, smarter games and NPCs. Just for starters.

That's true, but there are limitations beyond the hardware. Look at RAGE. Gorgeous, even on consoles. But how much of it was there, even put on two disks? Upgrade the hardware as much as you want, but if the delivery system is running out of space, you're just staving off the problem.

The 360's problems with updates through Live and XBLA, and the challenge of getting replacement power packs are the only issues I see with the console. There are plenty of stories of breakdowns, and breakdowns are VERY problematic, but I've never had those problems. My problem was that my power pack burnt out ( it had overheated as a result of my stupidity in placing it, not enough ventilation), and I had to go on a wild goose chase to find a replacement. Also note that the broken power pack had it's light glowing red (perhaps RROD Xbox's have overheated?).

It's alright to get angry at a console that seems ( and maybe even is) shoddily made, but then again, I recommend making sure the console and power pack have plenty of space for ventilation. That may solve most problems with the console breaking down.

LooK iTz Jinjo:
I'm on my 4th Xbox, I've had a release Pro and a 2nd Gen Arcade die on me (only paid $50 for the arcade and it served me well for over a year), I also had a MW2 console which I've subsequently sold and I'm now on a Gears of War 3 console. I've got 5 controllers (4 first party ones), only 1 of which doesn't work perfectly, but I attribute that to my idiot brother who used to use it before I moved out and took it with me. You're complaining about the price hike? It's like $100 for a year in Australia (unless you get in during one of their 'deals') and we don't even get half the features. No Netflix, no Indie Games and we have a total of 2 TV Channels from that new update. Seriously, how do we pay more than Americans for it? OUR DOLLAR IS WORTH MORE!

That all being said, they provide a damn good service and I love my Xbox. My Wii and 3DS sit tucked away collecting dust, but every day without fail I turn my xbox on for 10-15 hours...

'Tis true that your dollar is worth more, but as far to my knowledge, that's a fairly recent development. For the longest time, the Canadian and Australian Dollars were worth less than the US Dollar; recent economic conditions in America seem to have brought the dollar down compared to all currencies, leading the Canadian and Aussie dollars to be more valuable in comparison, if only by a miniscule margin.

Another thing I've noticed is that for most every console in all of gaming history released internationally, it always cost the same across all countries ( 600 US Dollars, 600 Euros, 600 British Pounds Sterling, 600 Canadian Dollars, etc., as an example), which means consumers in countries with stronger currencies always paid more... but I don't know why you guys are paying so much for everything; maybe it has something to do with having had a weaker currency the whole time, and then all the companies don't seem willing to change the prices to meet changes in currency... but it seems like an enigma. An unfair one.

captcha: Masonry, oppoper ... maybe the Freemasons are responsible! [joke]

Shawn MacDonald:
What I hate about these threads is there is always one person who types this line. "This has not been a problem for me and my Xbox works just fine." Just fine and dandy random person on the internet who thinks that everybody else must treat their stuff like crap. Like how mine broke as well and is sitting in my closet never to be played again.

Uh... Pot? You're kinda calling the Kettle black here.

This goes the other way as well, just because you had a problem with it and didn't get it fixed, doesn't mean that everyone else has. I can only recall one person I know in the passed few years who has had an Xbox 360 RRoD on them, out of at least 3 dozen.

I'll admit, at first, I had troubles with Xbox's. Within the first 3 years of launch, I had gone through 3 consoles. Each had died on me with an RRoD, and one of them also had an issue with the disc tray. I was furious at the time, but each one that broke, I was able to get repaired for free from Microsoft, and had my warranty extended even. Now, I've gone on 3 years with my current Xbox, almost 4, with near constant use on it, and it is showing no signs of any problems. The only console I've had longer than that was my second PS2 I believe because my first one I had of those broke, and I didn't have a warranty to cover it or number to dial to have it shipped and fixed for free.

Then again, I wish I could say the same thing about their damned headsets.

Char-Nobyl:

Got a citation for that number?

A recent interview with Tim Schafer. Not gonna find the link for you, the story is here on the escapist too.

Oh wait, you know what. I did it.

http://www.hookshotinc.com/interview-schafers-millions/

"But the indie community is now moving elsewhere; we're figuring out how to fund and distribute games ourselves, and we're getting more control over them. Those systems as great as they are, they're still closed. You have to jump through a lot of hoops, even for important stuff like patching and supporting your game. Those are things we really want to do, but we can't do it on these systems. I mean, it costs $40,000 to put up a patch - we can't afford that! Open systems like Steam, that allow us to set our own prices, that's where it's at, and doing it completely alone like Minecraft. That's where people are going."

Oh, it should? You mean like internet service? Because that's free, right?

I don't get my internet from them. And I don't have to pay for my multiplayer games, I also don't have to pay for Steam, Origins, GFWL, any other gaming platform.

Okay...so then whose fault is that? Those games are getting perpetually updated. While I see the problem with the limit to updates, you're complaining about a problem as valid as claiming the 360 ruined RTS games by not including a mouse with its keyboard.

When I buy a game, I usually expect it to be a complete product. With stuff like Skyrim or Fallout, I'll expect a fixer patch within a day or so, but then beyond that, any DLC will be what I choose to buy.

Well, thanks to the limit of size for a patch, the costs for a patch alone and the time it takes to authorize a patch the Xbox kills community support for small games because the developer can't continue working on them. Nice to see that you support it.

And let me establish right now: I much prefer paying $400 for a console that can reliably play any game I feed it than sinking two grand into a computer that will be outdated and useless before I'm out of college. And that's assuming that it doesn't crash or get a virus or something.

If you sink a grand into a PC then you are an idiot. If you have regular problems with crashes, games and viruses you are incompetent.

I sank 400€ for a good PC now 3 years ago, I have no problems running Serious Sam 3 on ultra. And if you seen SS 3 on ultra you know this game takes a serious PC to run it.

Here's a Debating 101 tip: always consider what the opposing side might say. It makes building your arguments easier, and it'll help you realize that sometimes you have to provide evidence for your claims.

Sorry that he assumed he talked to people who 1: kept their ears and eyes open over the last few weeks especially after the kickstarter with Tim Schafer and 2: actually know what they are talking about.

Don't like Microsoft/X-Box anymore? Well, just don't spend any more money on it then!

I'm sure MS will cry tears of molten gold over losing out on your cash. Or not.

Programmed_For_Damage:
I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

BTW I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've had with your 360's. I've got three in the house (2 Pros and a 360S) and none of them have had any problems.

I beg to differ on the PC mods suck part. Counter Strike was a mod for Half Life and so was Team Fortress. Dear Ester started as a mod for Half Life 2. Mods for Bethesda games make the game so much better it's staggering.

Also these mods are probably going to better then the games there modding.

http://andoran.com/en/

http://blackmesasource.com/

TheKasp:
snip

You are my new favorite user.

Wolfram01:
Sure: http://www.videogamer.com/news/schafer_xbox_360_patches_cost_40k.html

Nothing against Tim Schafer, but are there any other sources? He casually mentions it, and then...nothing else.

Wolfram01:
Those services are free in PS3, Wii, and PC... Xbox is the only one charging

Oh, yes, PS3. A living monument to the quality you get from a completely free service. The PC is already designed to connect to the internet, so that's a non-example, and the Wii...

Sorry, I couldn't stop laughing at the idea of playing online Wii games.

Wolfram01:
Actually that's complete crap. I've used some huge overhaul mods on many games, in particular though STALKER: CoP and Skyrim, and the vast majority of mods do not and can not break because of the update. The exceptions are things like Skyrim Script Extender and SkyBoost which vastly improve game performance and the script library (Papyrus)

So they sometimes don't break with updates? And when they do, they're for stuff that are invaluable to game performance?

Great. How comforting.

Wolfram01:
...Ok. I disagree with the value assessments as well as the implication of huge instability, but we'll roll with it. Not like Xboxs ever break and need replacing. Oh... right.

I'd prefer a device that breaks over one that breaks and steals my personal data. At least I don't have any chance of fault in the former. Besides, when did a company ever extend a blanket warranty over a computer?

Wolfram01:
Implying that open source is the perfect world is vastly different than implying consoles shouldn't exist, but I'm not going to put words in his mouth

Sorry, I saw "In a perfect world everyone would buy games only for the pc" and understandably assumed that this would require the nonexistence of consoles. My mistake.

Wolfram01:
Sad, the way monopolies work. Want to play DirectX video games on PC? You need Windows. I personally await the day games are made on open source code like OpenGL and I can simply run Ubuntu or whatever free OS.

You act like games have an incentive to be produced like that. The most recent high-profile game release without any disc protection (a different issue, but a big one for PC gaming) ended up being one of the most pirated games in history. And then the producers of The Witcher 2 had the gall to cry that the internet was being mean to them by not buying their easily-downloaded game.

The internet (and the people who inhabit it) so consistently screw developers across the entertainment industry that it's sheer luck that a few of them still cater to us from time to time.

Wolfram01:
Anyway, my personal opinion is that consoles are good. They get more people into gaming, and as they mature games get better across the board (including PC ports). It's pretty simple to get away from consoles, really. You can get gaming on a PC for as little as $400-500 (plus a monitor, but same goes for a console). Sure, it will be outdated compared to the most modern tech in a year as new GPUs and CPUs get released, but compared to the software it will not be struggling any more than when it was new. Games just aren't really getting any more demanding on the minimum specs side of things.

But I commute really regularly. That plan would require me to buy a second computer that I can't use anytime except when I'm at home.

Wolfram01:
Sure, on PC you might need to troubleshoot an issue here and there (10 minutes on Google... less time than you spend reading this forum. Or Facebook) but otherwise, keep you PC in good condition and it'll last a long time. I think the slight inconveniences are vastly, vastly out striped by the benefits - but of course not everyone feels that way and I'm ok with it.

Now that is how you end an argument. Kudos, man. Not a lot of people can say something as reasonable as that while on the internet.

Ug, I'm having major troubles with my Xbox right now, the disk drive won't read disks, the controllers work about 50% of the time and it's noisy(er than usual) as crap right now.

But I won't replace it, since I might as well just stick to the PC. I've got steam, I've can play multiplayer games for free, I can sample delicious indie goodness from a much broader range and I prefer the controls.

Frybird:
Trollin', Trollin', Trollin'
Though the threads are swollen
Keep them fanboys trolling
Flamethreeeeeeeaaaad

Watch the posts a'stackin'
Wise we be a-crackin'
Talkin' 'bout the xbox 360.
My opinion is that these folks
Won't accept what we say as jokes
There's nothing we can do to change
Their minds.

OT: I've had my elite since Halo 3 came out, and it still works just fine. In fact, it's outlived my brother's arcade, despite having been acquired a year before it. I'd say the problem is that people are buying the cheapest model, and then complaining when they get the lowest quality parts. An extra $100 up front has already saved me $100 on the back end.

Also, If your controllers broke within a month of purchase, why the hell didn't you return them? The 30 day return policy and 90 day warranty are your friends.

TheKasp:
A recent interview with Tim Schafer. Not gonna find the link for you, the story is here on the escapist too.

Oh wait, you know what. I did it.

http://www.hookshotinc.com/interview-schafers-millions/

"But the indie community is now moving elsewhere; we're figuring out how to fund and distribute games ourselves, and we're getting more control over them. Those systems as great as they are, they're still closed. You have to jump through a lot of hoops, even for important stuff like patching and supporting your game. Those are things we really want to do, but we can't do it on these systems. I mean, it costs $40,000 to put up a patch - we can't afford that! Open systems like Steam, that allow us to set our own prices, that's where it's at, and doing it completely alone like Minecraft. That's where people are going."

lol, nice job ripping it from someone else's post.

TheKasp:
I don't get my internet from them. And I don't have to pay for my multiplayer games, I also don't have to pay for Steam, Origins, GFWL, any other gaming platform.

Except that Steam and Origin are about as lenient to their user base as the guards at a concentration camp. It's no secret that Steam is only licensing you use of the games, but Origin goes the extra mile by having the alarming tendency to disable players from using the game discs that they physically bought.

TheKasp:
Well, thanks to the limit of size for a patch, the costs for a patch alone and the time it takes to authorize a patch the Xbox kills community support for small games because the developer can't continue working on them. Nice to see that you support it.

I guess the "I see the problem with..." statement sailed right over your head. As did the "I enjoy my games being complete at time of launch" part.

TheKasp:
If you sink a grand into a PC then you are an idiot. If you have regular problems with crashes, games and viruses you are incompetent.

I sank 400€ for a good PC now 3 years ago, I have no problems running Serious Sam 3 on ultra. And if you seen SS 3 on ultra you know this game takes a serious PC to run it.

Jesus tapdancing Christ, does no one here ever think that some people prefer laptops? Because I do. Because I'm not at home half the time and still want to be able to user a computer.

Programmed_For_Damage:
I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

You're obviously not looking hard enough.

It's like any major title on, say, the Wii. There are some gems out there, but they are encased in layer upon layer of absolute crap.

Char-Nobyl:

lol, nice job ripping it from someone else's post.

Heh, I got to it literally through just typing it in google. Haven't read the whole thread, found your post through a quite.

Except that Steam and Origin are about as lenient to their user base as the guards at a concentration camp. It's no secret that Steam is only licensing you use of the games, but Origin goes the extra mile by having the alarming tendency to disable players from using the game discs that they physically bought.

Big news: All games are licenses. Always were. Software is ALWAYS just licensed.

I guess the "I see the problem with..." statement sailed right over your head. As did the "I enjoy my games being complete at time of launch" part.

Then you should not be gaming. Bugs and such were always there. "Complete games at launch" never existed.

Community Support after release is also more than just DLC and simple bugfixes. Witcher 2 offered extra content to all when they release Witcher 2 on Xbox 360, also they patched another difficulty mod. TF2 gets patched around every week to keep a proper balancing. Espeically MP titles need community support to not die.

Again: Nice to see that you support this and just want to see big titles to have any kind of longliving support on consoles. I prefer my PC where indie devs can patch without paying for it.

TheKasp:

Jesus tapdancing Christ, does no one here ever think that some people prefer laptops? Because I do. Because I'm not at home half the time and still want to be able to user a computer.

Let me rephrase that: If you sink a grand into a gaming laptop then you are an idiot. If you have regular problems with crashes, games and viruses you are incompetent.

But on the other hand I won't go out and say that you can find a gaming laptop or even PC capable of running modern games better than the 360 for 250$. 400$ for PC, maybe ~600$ (most likely 700$) for a gaming laptop should do it.

Char-Nobyl:
Steam is only licensing you use of the games

All software is licenses, you don't own your Xbox games either. Get over it.

My xbox has never broken down, because i don't use it! I'm a PC elitist douche bag!

OT: Yea, i don't use it, so I can't really help....

Programmed_For_Damage:
I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

BTW I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've had with your 360's. I've got three in the house (2 Pros and a 360S) and none of them have had any problems.

Need i hang a lampshade on Team Fortress or Counter Strike? DotA?
Mods that spawned video game franchises that dominate multiplayer leader-boards.

Mods enhance the longevity of any game they are in, yes sturgeon's law is in effect just as it is for any Video Game Console.

when you make a comment based on limited experiences you invalidate any opinion you might have.

lapan:

Programmed_For_Damage:
I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

BTW I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've had with your 360's. I've got three in the house (2 Pros and a 360S) and none of them have had any problems.

Then you simply haven't looked good enough.

Fair enough, I'll cop to that statement. Given I don't play on the PC much anymore I'm not as well versed on mods as others. As I said, I'm purely going on what I've seen and subjectively speaking what you might think is good just doesn't do it for me.

And I used to play Counter Strike and Team Fortress a lot and the majority of the mods I played were shite in my opinion. Some were ok.

LordDPS:

when you make a comment based on limited experiences you invalidate any opinion you might have.

Dude, you don't even know me, or how much experience I've had with games. I've been gaming for a long, long time.

Veylon:
All that and yet you bought four of the things and continue to pay for their internet services? When you keep throwing money at them like this, you are giving them every reason to think they are doing a fantastic job.

My thoughts exactly, this is starting to sound like Battered Wife Syndrome.

Char-Nobyl:

Wolfram01:
Sure: http://www.videogamer.com/news/schafer_xbox_360_patches_cost_40k.html

Nothing against Tim Schafer, but are there any other sources? He casually mentions it, and then...nothing else.

Well, nothing official. Still, seems pretty outrageous. I guess it's the same/similar on all consoles, but at least on PC a dev can just throw a patch up on their website. Free minus the cost of the server space.

Wolfram01:
Those services are free in PS3, Wii, and PC... Xbox is the only one charging

Oh, yes, PS3. A living monument to the quality you get from a completely free service. The PC is already designed to connect to the internet, so that's a non-example, and the Wii...

Sorry, I couldn't stop laughing at the idea of playing online Wii games.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you mean about the PS3 jibe. Granted, I don't play a lot of PS3 games online, used to play a fair bit of CoD and Gran Turismo though as well as Demon's Souls, and didn't have any issues. I suppose the hacking thing was sucky but fortunately it didn't affect me.

Also, aren't all the consoles also designed to connect to the net? I mean they have ethernet ports just like a PC, and even include wireless which goes beyond most PCs. Basically, I don't see why exclude it from the list. Most PC game apps like Steam, Origin, Impulse, GFWL are totally free - although some of them suck some serious donkey you know what.

And well, the Wii... yeah... but, at least you can get Netflix on the Wii without a subscription to "Wii Live" lol.

Wolfram01:
Actually that's complete crap. I've used some huge overhaul mods on many games, in particular though STALKER: CoP and Skyrim, and the vast majority of mods do not and can not break because of the update. The exceptions are things like Skyrim Script Extender and SkyBoost which vastly improve game performance and the script library (Papyrus)

So they sometimes don't break with updates? And when they do, they're for stuff that are invaluable to game performance?

Great. How comforting.

Well... sort of. I suppose I put that very badly. Most mods are things like new textures and meshes, or simple edits of in game items - things that are not changed on a patch to patch basis. The likelyhood of a mod that adds a new armor or weapon or house breaking the game are extremely low.

The two examples I listed are literally the only two I know of right now. Neither of them will break the game if they aren't working and so far have been pretty quick to get updated after a patch.

Wolfram01:
...Ok. I disagree with the value assessments as well as the implication of huge instability, but we'll roll with it. Not like Xboxs ever break and need replacing. Oh... right.

I'd prefer a device that breaks over one that breaks and steals my personal data. At least I don't have any chance of fault in the former. Besides, when did a company ever extend a blanket warranty over a computer?

Well I guess the obvious thing to state is that nobody is stealing person data if a PC dies. I assume you mean you lose all your stored photos and other personal effects if a hard drive dies, and yes that is unfortunate. There are ways of mitigating that, though, from using cloud storage to backing up your own stuff on an external drive or just using RAID 1 (mirrors data between multiple drives).

Depends on the PC, a lot of them like Dells and HPs have limited warranties for a couple years. But, if you build your own, you generally get pretty good coverage. Most of my parts came with 2-3 year warranties, some are lifetime. It's really not that different from a console, though. Once the warranty is up you gotta pay to send it out and get it fixed.

Wolfram01:
Implying that open source is the perfect world is vastly different than implying consoles shouldn't exist, but I'm not going to put words in his mouth

Sorry, I saw "In a perfect world everyone would buy games only for the pc" and understandably assumed that this would require the nonexistence of consoles. My mistake.

No, I realize that's what he said. I agree with you that it is a bad sentiment overall. However, I think he may have meant something a little different than what he actually said. That was just my interpretation, like I said, I'm not trying to put words into his mouth.

Wolfram01:
Sad, the way monopolies work. Want to play DirectX video games on PC? You need Windows. I personally await the day games are made on open source code like OpenGL and I can simply run Ubuntu or whatever free OS.

You act like games have an incentive to be produced like that. The most recent high-profile game release without any disc protection (a different issue, but a big one for PC gaming) ended up being one of the most pirated games in history. And then the producers of The Witcher 2 had the gall to cry that the internet was being mean to them by not buying their easily-downloaded game.

The internet (and the people who inhabit it) so consistently screw developers across the entertainment industry that it's sheer luck that a few of them still cater to us from time to time.

Well first off, no I don't. I know there's little to no reason for games to be made on opensource code. The only big release in a long time to be made on OpenGL is RAGE. Pretty high profile game, but it's a rare one. All I'm saying is I'd like for that to happen. Or, hell, even for Linux to be able to run DirectX (though I'm sure Microsoft would never allow it). I don't hate Win 7, I mostly hate that there are good alternative operating systems that I can not game on.

DRM is a different issue for sure, not one I really see the need to get into here. Personally I'm mostly ok with it. Mostly. Not entirely.

You're right that it's surprising devs still cater to the PC crowd sometimes. From a pure business standpoint, for a big dev they would lose out on potentially huge sales by not going multiplatform, but it's not like PC gaming isn't profitable. Plus like I alluded to with the $400-500 PC, the minimum specs for gaming aren't really changing much so people who buy decent PCs now will still be able to game in several years. Sadly, people on old tech right now are out of luck, but basically as we move forward more and more people will have capable machines.

Wolfram01:
Anyway, my personal opinion is that consoles are good. They get more people into gaming, and as they mature games get better across the board (including PC ports). It's pretty simple to get away from consoles, really. You can get gaming on a PC for as little as $400-500 (plus a monitor, but same goes for a console). Sure, it will be outdated compared to the most modern tech in a year as new GPUs and CPUs get released, but compared to the software it will not be struggling any more than when it was new. Games just aren't really getting any more demanding on the minimum specs side of things.

But I commute really regularly. That plan would require me to buy a second computer that I can't use anytime except when I'm at home.

Well... yeah, that's unfortunate. I mean you could transport a small form factor PC around, but it's for sure more hassle than a console that fits into a backpack.

Wolfram01:
Sure, on PC you might need to troubleshoot an issue here and there (10 minutes on Google... less time than you spend reading this forum. Or Facebook) but otherwise, keep you PC in good condition and it'll last a long time. I think the slight inconveniences are vastly, vastly out striped by the benefits - but of course not everyone feels that way and I'm ok with it.

Now that is how you end an argument. Kudos, man. Not a lot of people can say something as reasonable as that while on the internet.

Um... thanks. I swear I'm not trying to be super argumentative here, rather just clear up (what I feel are) a few misconceptions.

I still have an original model 360 that works. If I leave it running to long it will die, but it always starts back up after a break.

I spend most of my time on my PC anyway so it doesn't matter.

I am still on my 1st gen PS3. I agree our online section could do with a little improvement, being hacked and taking what felt like years to fix. But as far as hardware, my 1st gen still works like fresh out the box. I feel I made an excellent choice.

Yet you're on your 4th Xbox. They must be doing something right or you would have never gotten the first one fixed. I don't love the Xbox 360, I prefer retro gaming myself, but I've had some fun on it. And all your arguments sounded like you want to love them but they make you hate them. Brand loyalty is not the reason people defend them. It's just that they also have had a lot of fun but without as many problems.

Somonah:
And you will blow up your first gaming PC

Only if you're a fucking idiot!

Me, I have consoles dating back to the Master System that are all played and still running perfectly. I build my own PCs. I own and use four grands worth of camera gear regularly and also build large car audio setups, none of which have ever failed.

I've also had five 360s die on me over the years, all of which are kept well ventilated and are even treated to good, clean power. Only one ever lasted more than eight months, and one lasted under an hour before the DVD drive started making grinding noises.

So, looking at the above evidence, and also adding that I've opened up 360s for the RROD fix and can confirm the awful design, whos fault is it?!!

Here's what happened to me: my xbox RROD, my ps3 YLOD, and my PC's hard drive randomly died. I had to fall back on my DS until they were all repaired. With an experience as awful as yours, of course you wouldn't like it; you didn't have a good experience. Which isn't to say you aren't biased, you are, but it's not necessarily a bad thing.

Take one of my friends for example: Prerelease, he was selling up the 3ds like mad. He loved it like it was his baby. then, it got stolen on a train, and now he bashes nintendo at every possible turn.

*edit* my point being that your experiences can affect the way you slant your opinons.

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