Bioware forums explode as Mass Effect 3 ending details are leaked. *MINOR SPOILERS*

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SajuukKhar:

boag:

I know, I just kinda hoped that ME would be the exception to the rule :(

in retrospect this is classic Bioware Writting and I should not have been surprised by it.

It is nice to see that a few people do realize this is exactly the same stuff Bioware has been pulling for ages.

It is the same thing all games that supposedly have "choice" and diffrent endings based on "choice" do, the only difference is instead of telling you your decisions were meaningless in the next game they just cut to the chase.

My problem is that they keep emphasizing the diversity of the endings and the importance of your decisions.

The endings seem like a Molyneux bait-and-switch to me.

Also, if it's the end of Shep's story and the next game is X years in the future, I don't see what difference it makes in allowing us to determine the fate of the Normandy. There wouldn't be a need for a retcon.

Considering how 1,2, and 3 cribbed from Anachornox, I expect 4 will start with a new adventurer from the village... eerrr... Colony Shep founds to wander off into the stars on a quest to find a GECK...errr... prothean terraformer...

Well honestly? What were they expecting? Yes, the Reapers are beatable, but Bioware made it quite clear from the outset that even is you do everything right, there's only so much bloodshed you can prevent. Sacrifices will have to be made, people will die, maybe even entire races will be lost for the greater good, but that's the price you pay fighting a super-advanced dreadnought army species that is hell bent on your total annihilation. Quite frankly, it should be enough that there even is a way to win against the Reapers at all. It may be depressing, but what would be even more depressing would be to have all this build up, only for you to be able to turn the Reapers into your little bitches just by doing all the loyalty missions, thus removing all semblance of some balls from the plot.

I may change my mind if they turn out to cross the line from 'bittersweet no matter what you do' to 'total fucking cock slap no matter what you do', but if anything I think this is great news and I applaud the writers at Bioware for proving to us that they have a spine.

NinjaDeathSlap:
only for you to be able to turn the Reapers into your little bitches just by doing all the loyalty missions,

Interesting Choice of Words.

have you read the leaked endings?

boag:

NinjaDeathSlap:
only for you to be able to turn the Reapers into your little bitches just by doing all the loyalty missions,

Interesting Choice of Words.

have you read the leaked endings?

I am reading them now (probably won't go for THAT choice on any playthrough). So far the only thing that's pissed me off is...

Patrick_and_the_ricks:

undeadsuitor:

Patrick_and_the_ricks:
Most people seem angry because this effectively destroys the mass Effect Universe. There will never be another game like 1 or 2, they effectively butt-fucked the cannon into an inescapable hole.

Oh and almost all your actions are invalidated, all your choices don't play out at all. Just a crappy way to send out this series.

Cause they couldn't make a game set before Shepard's adventure!

Nope.

They could, but would you really enjoy it? Knowing the grim fate looming overhead?

Exactly why so many couldn't get into Halo Reach.

If that really is the reason why people couldn't get into Halo: Reach, then... wow.

Have these people not heard of Greek Tragedy? One of the most important forms of Drama that has ever existed. Basically the whole defining premise is that the Hero is fucked from the start. Hell, in most of them it even had a narrator come on and give a prologue that explicitly told you that the Hero was fucked from the start. On the surface it might sometimes seem like it was down to them making the wrong choices, but when you consider that the Ancient Greeks believed that all things were governed by fate, any 'choice' that there might have been was nothing but an illusion.

This isn't a bad thing at all. It might lead to some damn depressing endings. But if an ending really tugs at your heart strings, then surely that's a plus, so long as it moves you one way or another? Knowing the Hero's fate from the start doesn't stop them or their story from being powerful. In some cases it makes it more so, the tragedy of seeing someone so driven and so determined fall, because no matter how good they were, they couldn't escape their fate, sends a very powerful message about Humanities place in the wider scheme of things. Not a very happy message, but a powerful one nonetheless.

Halo: Reach's ending is in my top 5 video-game endings of all time for precisely this reason. I guess people will like what they like, and that makes this whole rant pointless, but really? If this concept is so unpopular, when how come it has survived all these years?

NinjaDeathSlap:
I am reading them now (probably won't go for THAT choice on any playthrough). So far the only thing that's pissed me off is...

It's actually

So don't worry about the last one, but the middle is a bit of a controversy right now...

Coldie:

NinjaDeathSlap:
I am reading them now (probably won't go for THAT choice on any playthrough). So far the only thing that's pissed me off is...

It's actually

So don't worry about the last one, but the middle is a bit of a controversy right now...

Actually the ME1 romances show up fine. so Liara, Ash, and Kiaden work.

There IS going to be a day 1 patch that most assume fixes it.

SajuukKhar:

There IS going to be a day 1 patch that most assume fixes it.

The running joke on the forums is that it unlocks decent endings.

BaronIveagh:

The running joke on the forums is that it unlocks decent endings.

I don't see why it would need to, the endings are good as is, and fit with the overall message and themes of the series.

SajuukKhar:

BaronIveagh:

The running joke on the forums is that it unlocks decent endings.

I don't see why it would need to, the endings are good as is, and fit with the overall message and themes of the series.

Oh, take your pick: public outrage, EA squeezing every last DLC dime out of it they can, the fact that the ending is practically written to be revised with DLC...

Where are people getting this info? I'm not saying it isn't true, but the only evidence people have offered are other forum post saying it's true. Not convincing IMO. I'm reserving judgement until the game is officially out.

edit: Also, though I would really like a happy ending, the endings make sense from a narrative perspective. I'm not too upset.

I actually think that's the bravest thing Bioware have ever done. Kudos to the and the spiky finger of reality to everyone who's bitching about it not being all puppies and sunshine.

This just made me interested, shame I'm still boycotting everything Origin.

BaronIveagh:

Oh, take your pick: public outrage, EA squeezing every last DLC dime out of it they can, the fact that the ending is practically written to be revised with DLC...

-Bioware fans rage at every announcement Bioware had made since ME1.
-EA hasn't even REMOTELY pushed the limits of DLC, when they start selling critical plot information as DLC then ill believe that EA is trying to squeeze money with DLC.
-Anyone who thinks Bioware would change the ending with DLC makes me lol, its pretty final, theres no real way to do DLC to go past it.

LHZA:
Where are people getting this info? I'm not saying it isn't true, but the only evidence people have offered are other forum post saying it's true. Not convincing IMO. I'm reserving judgement until the game is officially out.

edit: Also, though I would really like a happy ending, the endings make sense from a narrative perspective. I'm not too upset.

Well, you can download it from pirate torrents even now, and one of the regulars on BSN got one of the space copies and started mining it for data and putting it up on youtube. He's given three separate playthroughs so far, as well as a full list of the war materials you have to gather.

NinjaDeathSlap:
If that really is the reason why people couldn't get into Halo: Reach, then... wow.

Have these people not heard of Greek Tragedy?

Yes I have. HOWEVER, this isn't a Greek Tragedy it's a Space Odyssey. Two completely different types of stories. Second what works in film or a book may not work in a game, It may have worked in say God of War, but God of War had a specific theme and message designed for that type of story. This sudden tone shift just does not fit write with what has been established.

In a video game, if the player feels like his actions and effort have become pointless or invalidated then the player losses investment in the story. Mass Effect 3's ending are just a sad attempt to emulate Dues Ex, raise some sort of philosophical question. This wouldn't be a problem, but the issue is that the player feels like all the choices and actions they have taken have been for nothing, and with a series that's selling point is CHOICE, the fact that literally hundreds of variables have been boiled down to 4 or so endings is appalling.

It's just bad unoriginal writing, and is all the more worse because it marks the end of one of the most beloved science fictions in history. I don't want a happy ending with my love interest like some many of the ragging fanboys, I just want a satisfying conclusion.

none of us have even played the game yet. why the hell is everyone basing their opinion on some dude who played and posted pictures or he says she says bullshit they read on the internet. very judgemental people geez. shit i wish the reapers were real and destroyed all these bitching bioware loathing pussies. i never post on forums but god the ignorance of some people is unreal.

At this point I became so numb, regarding the multiple shitstorms Mass Effect 3 generated all over the internet. It's quite sad. Ha. Maybe it is SAD?

In any case, stop worrying, everyone! There will be at least 2 bigass DLCs, just like LotSB and Overlord.

Here are my predictions on what they will involve. Spoiler'd, just in case I slip some of the leaked info in there.


And remember, I called it!

I'm mostly kidding, tho. It's crazy talk, I don't know shit. Except that I'm fairly certain there WILL be big content DLCs, after those crappy endings. No, I have no proof of that, I'm talking out of my ass mostly. But this is Bioware and EA we're dealing with. Believing there will be DLCs is just common sense.
I stopped being concerned about all this long ago, really, I'll just see what happens and then will judge the game and the company on what was delivered to me.

Yes I have. HOWEVER, this isn't a Greek Tragedy it's a Space Odyssey. Two completely different types of stories. Second what works in film or a book may not work in a game, It may have worked in say God of War, but God of War had a specific theme and message designed for that type of story. This sudden tone shift just does not fit write with what has been established.

So you're telling me that the game franchise that starts off with the player as supposedly the last of their kind, on the run from an unstoppable, genocidal force on an alien landscape that hides a even worse enemy, it a last ditch effort to find some way of saving what's left of your species was never meant to have a tragic element?

Halo: Reach might have had a slightly darker tone than the other games, particularly the first 2, but it allowed to due to the fact that it is a different game; and honestly, when people heard the name Halo: Reach when it was announced, what exactly where they expecting? If they knew anything about established Halo lore that is.

You can have elements of two different types of narrative, such as Greek Tragedy and Space Opera, mixed together these days. Writers don't have to rigidly stick to formula, and that's a good thing. If you want 100% Space Opera and 0% Greek Tragedy? Then let's look at how many 'happy' endings there are in actual Opera (tip: not many).

In a video game, if the player feels like his actions and effort have become pointless or invalidated then the player losses investment in the story.

Does it? All it tells me is that I don't get to activate fucking God Mode because I chose the right dialogue option. Now that is what I call "bad" writing.

Mass Effect 3's ending are just a sad attempt to emulate Dues Ex, raise some sort of philosophical question. This wouldn't be a problem, but the issue is that the player feels like all the choices and actions they have taken have been for nothing, and with a series that's selling point is CHOICE, the fact that literally hundreds of variables have been boiled down to 4 or so endings is appalling.

If a player feels that their actions meant nothing due to these endings, then I'm sorry but that is their problem, because it just not true. Your actions will shape the Galaxy for the rest of time, you can determine who lives and who dies. Your choices do matter, it's just telling you that sometimes, even a 'good' ending has to come at a high price, and I applaud them for having the guts to do that (although some other fine details I'm not too happy about).

There are also more endings than that. There are three final choices, but depending on other variables you can have several different actual endings.

It's just bad unoriginal writing, and is all the more worse because it marks the end of one of the most beloved science fictions in history. I don't want a happy ending with my love interest like some many of the ragging fanboys, I just want a satisfying conclusion.

because 'saving the frickin' galaxy from an armada thought completely unstoppable, that had previously wiped out the most advanced races know to time with great ease' doesn't satisfy you?

SajuukKhar:
The endings actually imply they start a colony and that it does survive.

What, the 5 of them make a colony?
Jacob's father says hello, you tiny gene pool fan you!

Loethlin:
I'm mostly kidding, tho. It's crazy talk, I don't know shit. Except that I'm fairly certain there WILL be big content DLCs, after those crappy endings. No, I have no proof of that, I'm talking out of my ass mostly. But this is Bioware and EA we're dealing with. Believing there will be DLCs is just common sense.

I really doubt that any DLC will take place after the endings. Before the endings, sure, there's gotta be a ton of DLC coming up with side plots, but don't expect to be able to play after the finale.

PingoBlack:

SajuukKhar:
The endings actually imply they start a colony and that it does survive.

What, the 5 of them make a colony?
Jacob's father says hello, you tiny gene pool fan you!

Don't forget Garrus and Tali can't eat normal food, so they starve to death, all alone!

If you romanced one of them, then they truly are alone as well.

Thank you for playing Mass Effect 3, have a good day now, buh bye!

You want them to live? Well MAYBE, if you give us $7 for this DLC....

I love raging fanboys. They are so adorable when they want to burn the world over the most trivial things (such as their favorite franchise not ending like they want it). It's a good thing there is a medium like the Internet where you don't have to keep up a vague semblance of sanity and you can just fling your verbal shit at everything while flipping out in a most spectacular fashion.

I'm still getting the game, and if it's not as good as the previous ones... ah well. Shit happens and all that.

Coldie:
I really doubt that any DLC will take place after the endings. Before the endings, sure, there's gotta be a ton of DLC coming up with side plots, but don't expect to be able to play after the finale.

You're right for all I know. Like I said, I was talking out of my ass. Considering the spoiled endings I wish you weren't. Really, tho, all we're left to do is wait and see. :)

Canadish:

PingoBlack:

SajuukKhar:
The endings actually imply they start a colony and that it does survive.

What, the 5 of them make a colony?
Jacob's father says hello, you tiny gene pool fan you!

Don't forget Garrus and Tali can't eat normal food, so they starve to death, all alone!

If you romanced one of them, then they truly are alone as well.

Thank you for playing Mass Effect 3, have a good day now, buh bye!

You want them to live? Well MAYBE, if you give us $7 for this DLC....

Honestly this pisses me off more than anything, and considering that it seems Tali fans vastly outnumber all other fans combined, I sense a shitstorm of epic proportions that has not even yet begun to rear it's ugly head.

I read the spoiler link and ya know what.. I didnt really feel as if Bioware would do that. Though I do know, but if it's true, it better be a

situation if ya know what I mean!

Kind of glad that the lack of Steam availability already got me to bail out from this purchase.

I knew after ME2 that the next game would likely suffer from the same poor writing the first sequel suffered.

Everyone on earth is either being killed or turned into husks, an you're trying your best to collect an army to fight off the reapers.... even if you get this army super fast, the bast majority of earth's population is already dead.

NinjaDeathSlap:
Your actions will shape the Galaxy for the rest of time, you can determine who lives and who dies.

I agree with most of what you stated except this, your actions do not matter for the endgame, no matter who lives or who dies, the relays get fucked.

Even if the repears had survived to continue the cycle of extinction, the Relays getting fucked prevent them from ever carrying it out ever again.

If you kill the reapers and everyone dies, the next cycle will not have relays.

If you control the reapears and send them back, The Galaxy still has no relays.

If you merge with the Reapers and uplift all species, then you still have to rebuild the Relays.

Do you understand now?

Luckily Paddlefish seem to be the Key for a True Happy ending, so I hope you bought them for 8k credits in ME2 and had them survive till the end of the game, for the import.

PingoBlack:

SajuukKhar:
The endings actually imply they start a colony and that it does survive.

What, the 5 of them make a colony?
Jacob's father says hello, you tiny gene pool fan you!

If Liara survives ....

Blobpie:
Everyone on earth is either being killed or turned into husks, an you're trying your best to collect an army to fight off the reapers.... even if you get this army super fast, the bast majority of earth's population is already dead.

Dude, Earth is such a Tiny piece of the equation its not even worth mentioning, and it isnt even the reason why people are pissed at the ending.

boag:

I agree with most of what you stated except this, your actions do not matter for the endgame, no matter who lives or who dies, the relays get fucked.

Even if the repears had survived to continue the cycle of extinction, the Relays getting fucked prevent them from ever carrying it out ever again.

If you kill the reapers and everyone dies, the next cycle will not have relays.

If you control the reapears and send them back, The Galaxy still has no relays.

If you merge with the Reapers and uplift all species, then you still have to rebuild the Relays.

Do you understand now?

Luckily Paddlefish seem to be the Key for a True Happy ending, so I hope you bought them for 8k credits in ME2 and had them survive till the end of the game, for the import.

Yes, because destroying the relay automatically negates the fact that you can kill off entire species, cure the genophage for the Krogans, reclaim the Quarrian home-world, letting the Rachnai live, etc. etc.?

Just because you don't get a little pop-up message like in BG or DA saying

"The quarrians lived happily on their reclaimed homeworld yada yada"

doesn't mean that many bigger actions will affect the galactic map for some time even if the relays are destroyed.

The Relays are incredibly important to the function of the mass effect universe. Because of that, the effects of the bigger actions (that Shepard made) won't be seen for at least another 1000+ years. Your choices were pointless in the end.

SajuukKhar:

boag:

I agree with most of what you stated except this, your actions do not matter for the endgame, no matter who lives or who dies, the relays get fucked.

Even if the repears had survived to continue the cycle of extinction, the Relays getting fucked prevent them from ever carrying it out ever again.

If you kill the reapers and everyone dies, the next cycle will not have relays.

If you control the reapears and send them back, The Galaxy still has no relays.

If you merge with the Reapers and uplift all species, then you still have to rebuild the Relays.

Do you understand now?

Luckily Paddlefish seem to be the Key for a True Happy ending, so I hope you bought them for 8k credits in ME2 and had them survive till the end of the game, for the import.

Yes, because destroying the relay automatically negates the fact that you can kill off entire species, cure the genophage for the Krogans, reclaim the Quarrian home-world, letting the Rachnai live, etc. etc.?

Just because you don't get a little pop-up message like in BG or DA saying

"The quarrians lived happily on their reclaimed homeworld yada yada"

doesn't mean that many bigger actions will affect the galactic map for some time even if the relays are destroyed.

1.- its relays, all of the relays

2.- in the end game it doesnt even matter if you kill or save any species, because at long term their possibility of survival will be determined if they can be self sufficient. Something you will have no hand in, your decisions matter jack shit. In the end all the species become closed off from each other, you no longer know nor care what happens to the others because you will have no interaction with them again.

Lastly what big decisions will affect the Galactic map at all?
Say the Krogans start wanting to rape and pillage the galaxy after the Genophage is cured.

Its no longer an issue because they cant go anywhere.

Geth wants to exterminate all life, no relays so its going to take a heck of a long time for them to do anything.

you see where im going with this?

"How far can Bioware/EA go to completely alienate their fans?"

I don't think this is Bioware/EA's doing. An employee breaching protocol does not represent the company as a whole

They could have easily made the ending be impacted by a key decision you made all the way back in ME1.

Rachni.
They still owe Shepard a great deal and do not need mass relays, which means there is no reason a happy ending is possible.
Unless the Rachni attempt to become the new galactic overlords.

But then again I might be wrong and all the Rachni might very well drop dead in the first minute of ME3.

Random thought of five -- 'leaked' content does not necessarily constitute 'all' of the content, unless it's verified and stated. One thing I've noticed is BioWare has come out very quiet about this, and the fact someone mentioned that the 'good' endings, the genuinely good endings will show once the game is officially patched and released. Given the patch already set to land? Yeah.

I remember someone saying that the fans have been pretty terrible, and after seeing the ravenous hordes on both sides (the ones who go 'lolol biodrones' and the ones who get too much of a ragefit over RUINED FOREVER.. yeah. Just. Yeah) I applaud BioWare for this unintended or perhaps intended slugging.

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