And You thought that 13 years old swearing in shooters are bad...

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It's e-sports. Honestly the whole thing is so niche that at least a part of this has to be freaking drama llama attention grabbing combined with stupidity. Laugh at them, pity them, move on.

Launcelot111:
"The beauty of the fighting game community, and you should know this - it's based around not being welcome. That's the beauty of it. That's the key essence of it. When you walk into an arcade for the first time, nobody likes you." said Aris Bakhtanians.

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my life. Fighting games have a high learning curve, and that's fine, but Aris here is confusing himself and the games he plays. You have to put in work to avoid being crushed within the game, but you shouldn't have to prove a goddamn thing to avoid being reamed out and harassed by some anonymous asshole you just met, even if he is better than you at some virtual competition. I guess if you scare away all the new people, then you and your two friends in the in-crowd fighting "community" will be without a doubt the kings of the arcade.

Seriously, free speech is a human right, but others are protected from harassment and other forms of fighting words by the law, and trash talking is fine, but this asshole is condoning systemic harassment and exclusion of a huge chunk of people.

Thats why I don't like fighters at all. Seriously, I rented SF4 when it came out, play online once and lose, telling the bguy "good game" his response? "f***** like you dont deserve to even hold a controller". Stopped playing fighters after that.

I saw the Video with Aris (with him and that miranda girl)

It wasnt so much agressive..but just creepy and uncomfortable, and just got so awkward...espcially how he just went on and on without letting up

like she goes to the toilet
"is it #1 or 2?"

guessed her bra size

theatens "Im gonna "small you.."

wouldnt shut up about her thighs

Yeah, a real ambassador for the fighting game scene. *rolls eyes*
And what I said in the other thread:

Okay, that Bakhtanians guy pisses me off. I guess sexual harassment is as important to the fighting game community as a basketball is to a basketball game?

NOOOO. NO. NONONONO. NOPE. NO CHANCE. NOOOOOooooOOOOooooOOOO.

Look, I love fighting games. I'm not a pro, far from it, but I love fighting games. BlazBlue, Tekken, Street Fighter, Guilty Gear, King Of Fighters, Marvel vs Capcom, me and my best bud own them all (We basically treat our separate gaming libraries as one since we just borrow games from one another all the time). But if being a pro means you grow a giant phallus where their face should be, then consider me a happy noob.

This Aris guy is spewing complete BS. "Sexual harassment and fighting games community are one and the same"? Are you high? Go back to the pits of Jersey Shore where you belong, ye douchey devil!

LOL

The fact that they're part of a community (and I use that term scathingly) based on a gaming genre... Well it just makes the misogynist, badass act all the more hilarious.

RaikuFA:

Thats why I don't like fighters at all. Seriously, I rented SF4 when it came out, play online once and lose, telling the bguy "good game" his response? "f***** like you dont deserve to even hold a controller". Stopped playing fighters after that.

Look, there are douchebags everywhere. FPS, RTS, even Party Games have them. I'm not defending the douche muzzle who offended you, quite the contrary, I just think that you should have the patience to find those who play to actually have good, challenging fun, and not to bully others and being a generall prick.

It's sad that the normal person to troll ratio bends more to the dark side, but I say you should give fighters

Aris (as much as I love him) is an idiot. It seems like a lot of the things he was saying were at least partially influenced by UltraDavid's article about the history of fighting games. The FGC has always been an openly hostile community. To people that didn't start their gaming career through the internet and are often from extremely varied economic and racial backgrounds, the trash-talk and berating of anyone who walks into their arcade is an imperative. But what they say isn't meant maliciously. It's just what they do. That's how it had always been done and the status quo is always going to be difficult for some people to handle.

Here's a link to UltraDavid's article explaining the history of the FGC. The difference between him and Aris is that, while David recognizes many of these aspects of the community, he also believes that at least one of the keys to growth is making becoming more approachable.

http://shoryuken.com/2011/12/12/guest-editorial-momentum-matters-a-historical-perspective-on-the-fgc-and-esports-communities-2/

EDIT: Oh, also Aris' misogyny has bitten him in the ass before. During last year's EVO Tournament, he was casting with KayoPolice, a Japanese model and extremely good Tekken and Street Fighter 4 player. He was hitting on her the entire time, even though she didn't speak English to any real degree. Kayo is actually a man though. In the sage words of Admiral Ackbar, "IT'S A TRAP!!"

Yeah I could not tolerate that Aris dude any more. He just seems like a moron. If you wanna shit talk and make off colour jokes amongst your friends who all know where the boundries are, go ahead. That is fine. I do the same with my friends and we all love it.
But we also don't make those same sorta jokes when we are playing with other people not of our group who may be offended.
This dumbass just wants to keep the entire thing very hostile and hate fuelled. He is the reason shit like fighting games will never be accepted as e-sports.
Let him go back and play with his 13 year old buddies. He should not be anywhere near any sort of professionally themed event.

Sperium 3000:

RaikuFA:

Thats why I don't like fighters at all. Seriously, I rented SF4 when it came out, play online once and lose, telling the bguy "good game" his response? "f***** like you dont deserve to even hold a controller". Stopped playing fighters after that.

Look, there are douchebags everywhere. FPS, RTS, even Party Games have them. I'm not defending the douche muzzle who offended you, quite the contrary, I just think that you should have the patience to find those who play to actually have good, challenging fun, and not to bully others and being a generall prick.

It's sad that the normal person to troll ratio bends more to the dark side, but I say you should give fighters

I'd like to but not with capcom fighters, seems its just not a nice community(I've gotton a few death threasts for not being good as others in Monster Hunter.)

I do own Arcana Heart 3 and plan on getting the Persona 4 fighter.

RaikuFA:
Thats why I don't like fighters at all. Seriously, I rented SF4 when it came out, play online once and lose, telling the bguy "good game" his response? "f***** like you dont deserve to even hold a controller". Stopped playing fighters after that.

Just to be contrary, I had a surprise experience in the online component of SSFIV - a few totally random people offered encouragement and showed good sportsmanship towards my clueless low level arse on several different occasions. That's the first time it's happened in any game on Xbox Live (for me, anyway)... hell, my player reputation has taken a beating from unwarranted negative player reviews for just being good at ranked UNO matches! Not to mention the abusive messages... UNO, ffs!

=))

That is terrible, how can people believe that being disrespectful bigots makes for a strong community with culture? Shouting racial and sexist slurs at people being called culture? That is really sad. These are people who I'm guessing have respect in their communities, great people to look up to and respect.

krazykidd:
Dammit does no one know how to use a search bar anymore ?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.352475-Cross-Assault-More-Like-Sexual-Assault#13971418

I mean really , i love how everyone think that their thread is SO important they assume no one made one like it OR the feel the need to make their own thread.

As for me ill cop past what i said in the other thread:

Ordinaryundone:
Here's the thing: It's trash talk. It's SUPPOSED to put you ill at ease and hurt your feelings. If it doesn't, then you aren't doing it right. I have no idea what this guy said, but chances are good that this Miranda took it way too personally. If I quit a game every time someone threw slurs or profanity at me, especially in competition, I'd never get anything done. In any competetive setting, you just have to learn to have tough skin. Yipes says shit that would make my grandmother faint on a regular basis (if she could understand half of it).

That said, just because it's standard practice (and not exactly wrong) doesn't mean its right. He probably could have chosen less offensive names or something, but the fact remains, its a competetive setting made all the more competetive for the large prize being offered. She had to know what she was getting into.

I have to agree with most of this , but what did he say exacly? Were what he said sexist ( i mean real sexism , not that bullshit extreme feminist call sexist) because if it was thats crossing the line . I'd be damn if i'd let someone say racist things to me during a competition ( i say racist because i'm black and i think that would be crossing the line ). But what does "sexual charged" mean . I personally would find it offensive if hed said something like " you can't win because you don't have a penis " as opposed to " are you boobs getting in the way".

All your posts are wrong. All of them. It's kind of fun to watch, actually.

OT: This guy's a total asshat. In fact, I'd wager LARGE amounts of money he's never actually been in a fight in his life.

Maybe an MMA fighter who also happens to be a gamer can teach him a little "lesson". :)

Fawxy:

krazykidd:
Dammit does no one know how to use a search bar anymore ?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.352475-Cross-Assault-More-Like-Sexual-Assault#13971418

I mean really , i love how everyone think that their thread is SO important they assume no one made one like it OR the feel the need to make their own thread.

As for me ill cop past what i said in the other thread:

Ordinaryundone:
Here's the thing: It's trash talk. It's SUPPOSED to put you ill at ease and hurt your feelings. If it doesn't, then you aren't doing it right. I have no idea what this guy said, but chances are good that this Miranda took it way too personally. If I quit a game every time someone threw slurs or profanity at me, especially in competition, I'd never get anything done. In any competetive setting, you just have to learn to have tough skin. Yipes says shit that would make my grandmother faint on a regular basis (if she could understand half of it).

That said, just because it's standard practice (and not exactly wrong) doesn't mean its right. He probably could have chosen less offensive names or something, but the fact remains, its a competetive setting made all the more competetive for the large prize being offered. She had to know what she was getting into.

I have to agree with most of this , but what did he say exacly? Were what he said sexist ( i mean real sexism , not that bullshit extreme feminist call sexist) because if it was thats crossing the line . I'd be damn if i'd let someone say racist things to me during a competition ( i say racist because i'm black and i think that would be crossing the line ). But what does "sexual charged" mean . I personally would find it offensive if hed said something like " you can't win because you don't have a penis " as opposed to " are you boobs getting in the way".

All your posts are wrong. All of them. It's kind of fun to watch, actually.

OT: This guy's a total asshat. In fact, I'd wager LARGE amounts of money he's never actually been in a fight in his life.

Maybe an MMA fighter who also happens to be a gamer can teach him a little "lesson". :)

No idea how an opinion can be wrong but whatever, your entitled to your opinion. Also no idea what an MMA fighter has to do with anything. I don't know if you have ever been to a fighting game tournament but trash talking is quite common and isn't done to harm anyone, just to throw them off their game. Too bad this player ( who happened to be female) took it to heart. Had she been a man no one would have cared, no matter what was said.

As a gamer I'm aware that there is a pretty shitty part of our culture rooted in misogyny. I wish it wasn't there and encourage this by not being a misogynistic dick.

krazykidd:

Fawxy:

krazykidd:
Dammit does no one know how to use a search bar anymore ?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.352475-Cross-Assault-More-Like-Sexual-Assault#13971418

I mean really , i love how everyone think that their thread is SO important they assume no one made one like it OR the feel the need to make their own thread.

As for me ill cop past what i said in the other thread:

I have to agree with most of this , but what did he say exacly? Were what he said sexist ( i mean real sexism , not that bullshit extreme feminist call sexist) because if it was thats crossing the line . I'd be damn if i'd let someone say racist things to me during a competition ( i say racist because i'm black and i think that would be crossing the line ). But what does "sexual charged" mean . I personally would find it offensive if hed said something like " you can't win because you don't have a penis " as opposed to " are you boobs getting in the way".

All your posts are wrong. All of them. It's kind of fun to watch, actually.

OT: This guy's a total asshat. In fact, I'd wager LARGE amounts of money he's never actually been in a fight in his life.

Maybe an MMA fighter who also happens to be a gamer can teach him a little "lesson". :)

No idea how an opinion can be wrong but whatever, your entitled to your opinion. Also no idea what an MMA fighter has to do with anything. I don't know if you have ever been to a fighting game tournament but trash talking is quite common and isn't done to harm anyone, just to throw them off their game. Too bad this player ( who happened to be female) took it to heart. Had she been a man no one would have cared, no matter what was said.

The thing I find most interesting is that you state that you are black and would find it very offensive if someone were to say racist things to you, apparently failing to see a correlation between a woman finding a man saying extremely sexist things to her offensive.

I mean your post was so ironic that when I first read I thought it had to be a sarcastic joke, but then you defended it. Very interesting indeed.

RoBi3.0:

krazykidd:

Fawxy:

All your posts are wrong. All of them. It's kind of fun to watch, actually.

OT: This guy's a total asshat. In fact, I'd wager LARGE amounts of money he's never actually been in a fight in his life.

Maybe an MMA fighter who also happens to be a gamer can teach him a little "lesson". :)

No idea how an opinion can be wrong but whatever, your entitled to your opinion. Also no idea what an MMA fighter has to do with anything. I don't know if you have ever been to a fighting game tournament but trash talking is quite common and isn't done to harm anyone, just to throw them off their game. Too bad this player ( who happened to be female) took it to heart. Had she been a man no one would have cared, no matter what was said.

The thing I find most interesting is that you state that you are black and would find it very offensive if someone were to say racist things to you, apparently failing to see a correlation between a woman finding a man saying extremely sexist things to her offensive.

I mean your post was so ironic that when I first read I thought it had to be a sarcastic joke, but then you defended it. Very interesting indeed.

Well i said it depended on what he said . There a difference between saying something "sexist" and saying something " sexually charged" . If he said something belittling the fact she's a woman , thats obviously wrong . Now if he said something with a sexual meaning , thats different , thats not sexist .

And suddenly I have a newfound respect for SSX Multiplayer. Competing against the world without having to deal with other people. Especially not tools like Aris.

Have I shouted things at a television that I would never use in normal conversation? Yes (mostly during boss battles). Do I feel that shouting at the television is a necessary part of the gaming experience? No, of course not.

Being profane simply to be profane adds nothing to the experience. Not when you're teabagging in Halo, not when you're making gay porn as your player insignia for Black Ops, and not when you're being a sexist asshole in [insert fighting game here]. You want to pretend you're shocking people? Do that on 4chan, like every other teenage boy who discovered the internet. Leave multiplayer gaming for people who want to play games with other people.

RaikuFA:

Launcelot111:
"The beauty of the fighting game community, and you should know this - it's based around not being welcome. That's the beauty of it. That's the key essence of it. When you walk into an arcade for the first time, nobody likes you." said Aris Bakhtanians.

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard in my life. Fighting games have a high learning curve, and that's fine, but Aris here is confusing himself and the games he plays. You have to put in work to avoid being crushed within the game, but you shouldn't have to prove a goddamn thing to avoid being reamed out and harassed by some anonymous asshole you just met, even if he is better than you at some virtual competition. I guess if you scare away all the new people, then you and your two friends in the in-crowd fighting "community" will be without a doubt the kings of the arcade.

Seriously, free speech is a human right, but others are protected from harassment and other forms of fighting words by the law, and trash talking is fine, but this asshole is condoning systemic harassment and exclusion of a huge chunk of people.

Thats why I don't like fighters at all. Seriously, I rented SF4 when it came out, play online once and lose, telling the bguy "good game" his response? "f***** like you dont deserve to even hold a controller". Stopped playing fighters after that.

In which case I'll apologize for the total idiot that you had the misfortune to meet. Yeah, we have idiots like that. It may just be me, but our idiots are also much more pronounced than for other genres. See how quickly you get flamed for asking an innocent newbie question on a Street Fighter video. Also count the number of flame wars over trivial crap. I'm all for good natured smack talk, but sometimes they take it a bit far.

On the other hand, we do have some genuinely awesome people too who are willing to help out newbies. If someone asks around, I expect 1 idiot and 3 nice guys. Don't know if I can or should persuade you to come back to playing fighters, but it's something to keep in mind. I'm nothing if not competitive, but it's mostly in the sense that I keep trying to better myself at the game and don't believe in holding back if there isn't a massive difference in player skill. Fight as dirty as you want, since I can do the same. After the fight is over, then good game. Rage mail will always be for idiots.

OP: The Aris guy is a Grade A dumbass. That's all there is to be said.

Edit:

Wolfram01:
Trash talk should be about making fun of how a person plays. Calling them out on cheap moves, make fun of their character choice, taunt them when you pull off a good combo.

Attacking the actual player is definitely not acceptable behavior I think.

Oh, and this. Throwing actual insults to the other player is stupid. A lot of the smack talk doesn't even work properly if you're not sitting next to the person you're playing against. If you send a message after the game is over, it makes you sound like a jerk since the match is already over and non-hostile intent won't translate in text.

Rocklobster99:
On the one hand, Aris was a behaving like a dickhead.

On the other hand, shit talking is an integral part of fighting games, the key is knowing where to draw the line.

True. In all competitive games, my opinion is that you should be a refined and gracious gentleman/lady in the lobby, after the game, on the forums and when discussing the game in real life, but I have no problem with people spamming yo' momma jokes and "shit talking" their opponents when on the field/server/couch.

Wolfram01:
Trash talk should be about making fun of how a person plays. Calling them out on cheap moves, make fun of their character choice, taunt them when you pull off a good combo.

Attacking the actual player is definitely not acceptable behavior I think.

But this, yes. Unless it's a generic "fat, ugly basement dwelling computer geek" thing. Personal attacks are one thing, personally targeted personal attacks are another. I think.

What a bunch of wankers.

Obviously these morons aren't paying very much attention to Street Fighter. Have they learned nothing from Ryu?!

As a female gamer who's had to deal with a lot of that in WoW, this touches a sore spot. It's unbelievable that he would even think that "it's gaming culture" is an acceptable response. It's unethical to cut down on the offensive remarks?! What the-? Do you even know what unethical means?!

image

Let me know when they invent the device that lets you punch people over the internet.

Taunta:
Obviously these morons aren't paying very much attention to Street Fighter. Have they learned nothing from Ryu?!

As a female gamer who's had to deal with a lot of that in WoW, this touches a sore spot. It's unbelievable that he would even think that "it's gaming culture" is an acceptable response. It's unethical to cut down on the offensive remarks?! What the-? Do you even know what unethical means?!

Let me know when they invent the device that lets you punch people over the internet.

Now as a guy who used to be an officer in a WoW guild I can recognise this sort of behavior as well. Having to (trying to at least) be a an unbiased third party when the girls were getting harassed by some douchebag who were internet drunk. Not acceptable.

This guy is beyond douchebag thou and if he was ever to be permabanned from the internet the world would be better for it.

That being said I wanted to go off on a bit of a side track of the treatment of the female sex in the male dominated games environment.
Video games has for a long time (and to a large degree still is) considered to be a boys club.
Being female as you have already pointed out makes you a target for douchebaggery. However as an officer I have had to deal the opposite as well. Female players expecting to get special treatment (and getting it) because of their sex. The "flirt your way to loot" isn't unheard of. I even know a case of a guy who pretend to be female in order to keep the attentions as a raidleader (it sounds worse than it was. And who am I to argue when it worked).

The question I ask myself is, why did it come to this?

Draech:

Taunta:
Obviously these morons aren't paying very much attention to Street Fighter. Have they learned nothing from Ryu?!

As a female gamer who's had to deal with a lot of that in WoW, this touches a sore spot. It's unbelievable that he would even think that "it's gaming culture" is an acceptable response. It's unethical to cut down on the offensive remarks?! What the-? Do you even know what unethical means?!

Let me know when they invent the device that lets you punch people over the internet.

Now as a guy who used to be an officer in a WoW guild I can recognise this sort of behavior as well. Having to (trying to at least) be a an unbiased third party when the girls were getting harassed by some douchebag who were internet drunk. Not acceptable.

This guy is beyond douchebag thou and if he was ever to be permabanned from the internet the world would be better for it.

That being said I wanted to go off on a bit of a side track of the treatment of the female sex in the male dominated games environment.
Video games has for a long time (and to a large degree still is) considered to be a boys club.
Being female as you have already pointed out makes you a target for douchebaggery. However as an officer I have had to deal the opposite as well. Female players expecting to get special treatment (and getting it) because of their sex. The "flirt your way to loot" isn't unheard of. I even know a case of a guy who pretend to be female in order to keep the attentions as a raidleader (it sounds worse than it was. And who am I to argue when it worked).

The question I ask myself is, why did it come to this?

I agree. It unfortunately leaves my kind, the kind that really doesn't care and just wants to play the damn game in a tough situation. One side says there's no such thing as girls on wow and the other side says that girls are wow are whores.

I definitely know of some female guild RLs who pull some pretty dick moves and are let off the hook by virtue of having a vagina. There's a pretty well-known guild on my server that always kicks pugs before end bosses and/or ninjas loot, and yet no one says anything because the gm is a girl.

Draech:

That being said I wanted to go off on a bit of a side track of the treatment of the female sex in the male dominated games environment.
Video games has for a long time (and to a large degree still is) considered to be a boys club.
Being female as you have already pointed out makes you a target for douchebaggery. However as an officer I have had to deal the opposite as well. Female players expecting to get special treatment (and getting it) because of their sex. The "flirt your way to loot" isn't unheard of. I even know a case of a guy who pretend to be female in order to keep the attentions as a raidleader (it sounds worse than it was. And who am I to argue when it worked).

The question I ask myself is, why did it come to this?

Oh. That reminds me of the wonderful little bit of drama, back from my WoW days. There was a player on our server who farmed insane amounts of gold (not a gold seller, mind You, he just had way too much free time on his hands). He also had weakness for girls. Can't even count the number of times he tried to flirt with me.
One day however, someone decided to abuse his feelings, made a female toon and for weeks pretended to be girl, returning the flirts etc. eventually scamming the guy for several most expensive mounts including the shiny 25$ one, commonly referred to as That Retarded Horse.

The truth is however, good Guild Leaders don't fall for that crap, and know how to cut any gender-related drama short. Over my time in MMOs I had luck to have such ones. I generally keep my gender to myself rather than flaunt it. Most of the time I try to not reveal it until I know the guild better and after i prove my usefulness as a player.
Because that's what it should be about. Not skin colour, not Your gender or sexual preference. Sure if someone sucks at the game They should be aware They might be called on it , especially in stressful/competitive moments, but that's about it, and always people should look for constructive criticism rather than personal insults.

Still, long way before gaming community as whole matures up to those expectations, and while over last years, in part thanks to many of "pro" female gamers and commentators (Big <3 to Dodger here) who became popular thanks to their actual merits/skill and not flashing cleavage, situation seemed to improve overall, there still is a lot borderline/offensive attitude in some communities.

Taunta:
Obviously these morons aren't paying very much attention to Street Fighter. Have they learned nothing from Ryu?!

As a female gamer who's had to deal with a lot of that in WoW, this touches a sore spot. It's unbelievable that he would even think that "it's gaming culture" is an acceptable response. It's unethical to cut down on the offensive remarks?! What the-? Do you even know what unethical means?!

Hmm... In WoW I did my fair share of abuse of a female member... Well, I abused her class choice (healer :D ) and that we understood each other well because, unlike 90% of our guild, I didn't give a rats ass about her gender. What I heard from her (especially funny when it all happened while we were in TS) would've been sickening if she didn't had a raw hide (miner flirts were the most harmless ones).

Now she is one of the few WoW people I still have contact to and one of the very few I met in RL.

krazykidd:

Fawxy:

krazykidd:
Dammit does no one know how to use a search bar anymore ?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.352475-Cross-Assault-More-Like-Sexual-Assault#13971418

I mean really , i love how everyone think that their thread is SO important they assume no one made one like it OR the feel the need to make their own thread.

As for me ill cop past what i said in the other thread:

I have to agree with most of this , but what did he say exacly? Were what he said sexist ( i mean real sexism , not that bullshit extreme feminist call sexist) because if it was thats crossing the line . I'd be damn if i'd let someone say racist things to me during a competition ( i say racist because i'm black and i think that would be crossing the line ). But what does "sexual charged" mean . I personally would find it offensive if hed said something like " you can't win because you don't have a penis " as opposed to " are you boobs getting in the way".

All your posts are wrong. All of them. It's kind of fun to watch, actually.

OT: This guy's a total asshat. In fact, I'd wager LARGE amounts of money he's never actually been in a fight in his life.

Maybe an MMA fighter who also happens to be a gamer can teach him a little "lesson". :)

No idea how an opinion can be wrong but whatever, your entitled to your opinion. Also no idea what an MMA fighter has to do with anything. I don't know if you have ever been to a fighting game tournament but trash talking is quite common and isn't done to harm anyone, just to throw them off their game. Too bad this player ( who happened to be female) took it to heart. Had she been a man no one would have cared, no matter what was said.

You're still wrong. Keep trying.

If he had simply called her a "bitch", that would have been trash talking.

That's not what he did, however. He went on a tirade defending the (wrong) viewpoint that misogyny is not only ACCEPTABLE but an INTEGRAL PART of the fighting game community.

There is nothing defensible there. That is not trash talking, its being a misogynistic cunt.

Yes, I have been to fighting game tournaments. Yes, there was trash talking. HOWEVER: If ANYONE at ANY of these tournaments had done what this guy had done, they would have been instantly kicked out/had their ass kicked. Not sure what scumbags you've been hanging around where you think this isn't a big deal.

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