How about you let me PLAY my game?

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So last night I started playing Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (from the HD collection) for the first time. I "played" for 1h50m (according to the save file) before calling it quits for the night.

Problem? Well, in that time, I spent no more than 25 minutes in actual gameplay. So basically, 75% of the first 1h50m of the "game", involves watching cutscenes and codec conversations (including the entire first 30 minutes or so). It would have been even worse if I didn't skip the silly movie stories para-medic tries to tell you after every single save attempt.

That's a terrible beginning to a "game", as far as I'm concerned. That's why the original MGS is still my favourite of the series... it's just a much tighter, more coherent package than the rest of the series' games.

Anyway, what do you think are the worst offendors when it comes to this sort of thing? Basically, games that constantly prevent you from doing your own thing, be it through cutscenes or constant tutorials or people who won't shut up, or whatever.

LookingGlass:
constant tutorials.

Elder Scrolls games.

Seriously, Bethesada, the intros were cool the first time around. But sometime around the 5th reroll, the start getting old.

Medal of Honor, Rising Sun is an okay game, but it started off well. You were thrust immediately into the game.

If there's one thing I don't like, it's the wheezing narrator for 90% of all fantasy games starting the story with "In the beginning -insert christian religious analogy, great darkness, last alliance, elves dwarves orcs etc.-"

Well, OP, THERE'S your problem - MGS is a MOVIE series, not a GAME series.

Joking aside: The latest zelda on Wii, Skyward Sword. It seemed fun, aside from the stupid hub city non-sense making me travel back and forth. I know I did a lot of back-tracking in the other console Zeldas, but I don't recall it being quite as.. noticeable? before now.

HOWEVER, the single greatest problem with the game is that STUPID. GOD DAMN. FAIRY REPLACEMENT. I will not touch that game again (stopped playing inside the first dungeon after the whole intro and princess getting kidnapped, etc.) unless Nintendo, or somebody, released a "patch" making it so I can both/either skip her conversations (as well as everyone else's, while we're at it) and make her GO AWAY.

I do NOT care about the stupid percent chance of me imagining myself stabbing you over and over. I just don't. And I KNOW that I need to solve a puzzle to get past this point: the game LITERALLY just told me the EXACT SAME THING 10 seconds before you stepped in.

Kahunaburger:

LookingGlass:
constant tutorials.

Elder Scrolls games.

Seriously, Bethesada, the intros were cool the first time around. But sometime around the 5th reroll, the start getting old.

Ahem. Skyrim gives an autosave that skips that five minute cinematic. Though I admit it could probably use one more, perhaps after you kill the bear.
In Oblivion, I saved before the sewer exit and used it when I made a new character.

Skyward Sword is a good one. I'm two hours into that one and put it in the "maybe later" pile. I just got so sick of running back and forth talking to uninteresting characters whose text scrolls so slowly. Funnily enough, I probably stopped playing right when I was about to get to actually do things (I saved at the first dungeon... at least I think it's a dungeon).

Knights of the nightmare! I played the ball-bustingly long tutorial and quit before getting into it, I heard it is good though so I might pick it up again someday.

MGS 4, it's just absurd, I was starting to wonder if I got the movie edition.

Final Fantasy does a whole bunch of that too, not just cutscenes but the combat animations, they get so absurdly long that you start planning nap times during gameplay.

LookingGlass:
Skyward Sword is a good one. I'm two hours into that one and put it in the "maybe later" pile. I just got so sick of running back and forth talking to uninteresting characters whose text scrolls so slowly. Funnily enough, I probably stopped playing right when I was about to get to actually do things (I saved at the first dungeon... at least I think it's a dungeon).

If it's any consolation, it picks up when you get into Faron Woods. The ground zones work like mini-dungeons in themselves before you get to the actual dungeon dungeon. (And the first dungeon has quite a learning curve. The first boss is the hardest one in most of the game.)

OT: I just hate needless padding. Yes, game, I appreciate how big of a world you have, but I don't appreciate twenty minutes of travelling sequences before I actually get to the game part of the game! All you're doing is adding arbitrary minutes to your gameplay count.

It's funny that people mentioned Skyward Sword cause I was gonna mention that as my good example. The Zelda games are pretty bad for making you run across Hyrule Field (or in the most egregious example, the ocean) for forever if you want to get anywhere. I liked Skyward Sword because the Sky was a lot smaller than the Ocean in Wind Waker, and there wasn't much reason to fly around anyways. And the ground world had actual puzzle content, instead of a big field.

I hate how in some of the modern fighting games (well, beat-em-ups), the cut-scenes will show the main character kicking a bunch of ass. I think Dark Void had a couple of these. Instead of watching a video of the character kicking ass, why not let ME kick that ass?! Some of the Halo games did this too and it annoyed the crap out of me.

Xenosaga, a fuck-knows-how-many hour movie with a few gameplay elements thrown in to frustrate you in between...

Not gonna lie, I love The Witcher 2, but going through that prologue for the fifth time is just annoying me. Same with Flotsam and the Kayran.

Mr.K.:
MGS 4, it's just absurd, I was starting to wonder if I got the movie edition.

I'll second that one. MGS4 is definately worse than Snake Eater.

The first time I played it, watching cutscenes and listening to all codec conversations, it took me about a week to complete. The second time, skipping everything except gameplay, I completed it in an afternoon. There really is very little "game" going on there.

OT: I think most modern games are pretty good at starting the player off right away. A nice bit of In Medias Res usually sorts things out because then you can drop back to the more mundane beginning after an exciting battle, one that probably wouldn't have happened until several hours in.

That said, [Insert any fantasy game here] will take forever to get started because of all the heavy lore that needs explaining before the player will even have a chance of understanding what the hell is going on.

The best games of course explain the situation using the world you are playing in. Show don't tell. See Half Life 2, Metro 2033 and Bioshock for examples of this.

LookingGlass:
That's a terrible beginning to a "game", as far as I'm concerned. That's why the original MGS is still my favourite of the series... it's just a much tighter, more coherent package than the rest of the series' games.

Wow. I love the SHIT out of the original MGS but you are being far too kind with the words "tighter and more coherant." Sure, compared to the others it's much easier to wrap your head around, but there's still a hell of a lot of cutscene and codec. Most of it seems fine to begin with but after several playthroughs a lot of it feels like needless handholding. I mean a codec call from Campbell telling Snake how to climb a ladder? Seriously?

But damn, why do I still love MGS so much?

Star Ocean 4 had ok amounts of game play between cut scenes but the cut scenes were still horrendously long.During a scene that opened the final planet, I sat their for about 10 minutes,got hungry, made pizza rolls in the oven, ate them all,AND the cut scene still went on for another 20 minutes(for a total of about 45 mintues-1 hour).

You got that annoyed by MGS3? The least cutscene heavy MGS? Try MGS2 where every cutscene past the halfway point is an hour long.

I can tell MGS3 was better paced cutscene wise because I was stopping to call Para-Medic every time I found a new animal/item to hear some hilarious dialogue. I wouldn't be caught dead stopping to call anyone for optional dialogue in MGS2.

Is MGS4 worse than MGS2 in terms of cutscenes? I really don't think that's possible...

Anyway, tutorials, tutorials. Does the endless stream of activities posing as missions in Saints Row 3 count? Yeah the activities actually have story relevance and kinda unique dialogue now but it's obvious that they padded out the one third mark by forcing you to play the start of all of them.

Maybe the respect = missions in the other SR games wasn't so bad after all.

(sorry if this double posts, FUCKIN' LAG!)

Cry moar. There is nothing wrong with MGS series long cutscenes and dialogues. Story comes first then gameplay. Don't like it? Don't play MGS.

The Wykydtron:
You got that annoyed by MGS3? The least cutscene heavy MGS? Try MGS2 where every cutscene past the halfway point is an hour long.

I can tell MGS3 was better paced cutscene wise because I was stopping to call Para-Medic every time I found a new animal/item to hear some hilarious dialogue. I wouldn't be caught dead stopping to call anyone for optional dialogue in MGS2.

Oh no, MGS3 is just the one in my head right now since I'm currently playing through it. I'm now 7.5 hours in and really enjoying it... when the controls cooperate. It's been a lot better since those first 2 hours (which I still say were ridiculous). Anyway, I hated MGS2. I hired it years ago and "played" it for maybe 5 or 6 hours and didn't bother to finish it. I'll give it another go via the HD collection at some point, but I don't expect great things.

Proverbial Jon:

LookingGlass:
That's a terrible beginning to a "game", as far as I'm concerned. That's why the original MGS is still my favourite of the series... it's just a much tighter, more coherent package than the rest of the series' games.

Wow. I love the SHIT out of the original MGS but you are being far too kind with the words "tighter and more coherant." Sure, compared to the others it's much easier to wrap your head around, but there's still a hell of a lot of cutscene and codec. Most of it seems fine to begin with but after several playthroughs a lot of it feels like needless handholding. I mean a codec call from Campbell telling Snake how to climb a ladder? Seriously?

Well, bear in mind I said tighter and more coherent. It's still Hideo Kojima wishing he made films instead of games, but he dialed it back a bit, possibly because they didn't yet know if anyone would buy a four hour long game with 10 hours of cutscenes.

Arina Love:
Cry moar. There is nothing wrong with MGS series long cutscenes and dialogues. Story comes first then gameplay. Don't like it? Don't play MGS.

If everybody started an argument like you, then we would get nowhere. "You don't like it? "Don't play MGS." I can play whatever the hell I want and then also bitch about it in a thread that encourages it.

The Wykydtron:

Anyway, tutorials, tutorials. Does the endless stream of activities posing as missions in Saints Row 3 count? Yeah the activities actually have story relevance and kinda unique dialogue now but it's obvious that they padded out the one third mark by forcing you to play the start of all of them.

Maybe the respect = missions in the other SR games wasn't so bad after all.

(sorry if this double posts, FUCKIN' LAG!)

Yeah, that's my biggest problem with Saint's Row 3, especially since i was exploring quite a bit from the start and playing missions very occassionally only to see that it teaches me something i already did an hour ago...

As for MGS3, other than the last half hour and the beginning of the last...third or so (won't spoil, but you'll know it...it also is i think the only point "mid mission" where you are offered to make a save between to cutscenes) is well paced in terms of gameplay. Yes, it's still an MGS Game, so it's still more on the story side, but if you played 1, 2 and 4 you'll be surprised of how many long stretches of uninterrupted gameplay the third game has.
That said, it takes a pretty long time before the game actually "starts". The introduction is pretty lengthy and it doesn't help that after walking for a minute you'll get one of the longest story-relevant Codec Calls of the entire game.

And well...it's still MGS, with the exception of Peace Walker (that still has some very long cutscenes), you have to expect a lot of story or you bought the wrong game.

The Battlefield 3 single player:
1. walk for 3 minutes
2. cutscene
3. shoot stuff for 2 minutes
4. cutscene
5. repeat step 1.

Arina Love:
Cry moar. There is nothing wrong with MGS series long cutscenes and dialogues. Story comes first then gameplay. Don't like it? Don't play MGS.

Gotta say, this. That's what MGS is all about really. It's not something inherently wrong with the series, it's just a different style.

Shawn MacDonald:
If everybody started an argument like you, then we would get nowhere. "You don't like it? "Don't play MGS." I can play whatever the hell I want and then also bitch about it in a thread that encourages it.

Then you have no one to blame but yourself if you're upset with the game. It's not starting an argument, it's trying to end one.

Kahunaburger:

LookingGlass:
constant tutorials.

Elder Scrolls games.

Seriously, Bethesada, the intros were cool the first time around. But sometime around the 5th reroll, the start getting old.

There is no intro dungeon for Morrowind. You can get out of the first area in >5 minutes.

Zydrate:
[quote="Kahunaburger" post="9.352614.13978837"]
In Oblivion, I saved before the sewer exit and used it when I made a new character.

Wow, that is brilliant...I love that idea, wish I'd thought of that XD.

Shoggoth2588:
I hate how in some of the modern fighting games (well, beat-em-ups), the cut-scenes will show the main character kicking a bunch of ass. I think Dark Void had a couple of these. Instead of watching a video of the character kicking ass, why not let ME kick that ass?! Some of the Halo games did this too and it annoyed the crap out of me.

The Devil May Cry series is probably the worst for this. I was strongly tempted to call my mother so she could sternly tell the game to stop hogging the fun and share like a nice boy.

Proverbial Jon:
Wow. I love the SHIT out of the original MGS but you are being far too kind with the words "tighter and more coherant." Sure, compared to the others it's much easier to wrap your head around, but there's still a hell of a lot of cutscene and codec. Most of it seems fine to begin with but after several playthroughs a lot of it feels like needless handholding. I mean a codec call from Campbell telling Snake how to climb a ladder? Seriously?

But damn, why do I still love MGS so much?

It's simple, what "game" there is in the games is fucking awesome.

The story is convoluted and at times ridiculous, but it's better then most games (especially CoD clones, and CoD itself, but this isn't much since "somewhat coherent" is ALL it takes to beat the shit of MW2 and BLops "stories").

Asking that of Konami is asking for too much.

LookingGlass:
.

Having only played MGS2-4, I honestly don't mind the long cutscenes and the codec conversations. It's what I paid when for I bought a metal gear solid game. MGS2 was one of my first games and maybe because of it I started to think of cutscenes and codecs as rewards as I got for playing the game. I always wanted to see the story unfold, see what would happen next after playing the game for a while, put the controller down, sit back and watch something happen. I never really noticed how the long the cutscenes would actually end up being in all the MGS games until MGS4, but then again I didn't mind because thats exactly what I want out of my metal gear solid game.

I can skip all the scenes when I play the games again and then just focus on enjoying the gameplay.

The narrator in Bastion wouldn't shut up. As funny as he was the first hour of the game, he gets sickening quickly after that, and starts sounding like this in my head:

Arina Love:
Cry moar. There is nothing wrong with MGS series long cutscenes and dialogues. Story comes first then gameplay. Don't like it? Don't play MGS.

quoted for truth.

seirusly, its how MGS works, whining now is kinda pointless

LookingGlass:
So last night I started playing Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (from the HD collection) for the first time. I "played" for 1h50m (according to the save file) before calling it quits for the night.

Problem? Well, in that time, I spent no more than 25 minutes in actual gameplay. So basically, 75% of the first 1h50m of the "game", involves watching cutscenes and codec conversations (including the entire first 30 minutes or so).

I could not stand this about MGS4 or whichever one came out for the PS3. I quit after a day and even trying to give it a shot and see if the cutscenes would die down. They didn't they just would not stop.

To be fair, the MGS series has always had lengthy intros and long cutscenes breaking up the action. Is having to watch and not press buttons like a neurotic twitcher really that bad? Set down the controller. Go make a sandwich. Relax.

Arina Love:
Cry moar. There is nothing wrong with MGS series long cutscenes and dialogues. Story comes first then gameplay. Don't like it? Don't play MGS.

Gaming is an interactive medium. There is nothing interactive in cutscenes. You are basically defending a badly acted movie.

I rented Yakuza 3 and tried it out last night....big mistake. They wouldn't shut up, I ended up watching tv for a bit, then I turned the game back on and they're STILL talking. And all the beginning fights are all forced tutorials like do this combo X amount of times. GAH! Why do some games have to have cut scenes you can't skip? It's not as if not having the option to skip it means I'm going to watch it.

This is my favourite game of all time for a plethora of reasons, but the cutscenes are absolutely one one them. It's just different taste in what you want out of a game.

Eternal sonata is one of those games. I really enjoyed it but when a cutscene started it almost always takes a long time to end. my cordless controller shut down several times during the game due t the fact it took so long before i pushed a button again.

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