ME3...What RPG Elements Got Cut Exactly?

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Yesterday I played up until you get to the Citadel and everything to me, seems to be the exact same way they left it in ME2. The distribution of skill/squad points, powers, classes, credits & purchases, conversation (paragon & renegade) points.

I had heard a lot of people complaining before the game was released that they were cutting a bunch of the RPG elements out of this game, but honestly I don't see it. Can anyone tell me, what if anything they changed in regards to the RPG aspect?

Also, on a side not I am playing on the PS3. Is any one else on the PS3 experiencing HORRIBLE frame rates when more than a few characters are onscreen at one time during cinematic portions?

Honestly, I only see more added. There is a lot more compared to 2. Such as weapons (there is A LOT of them), mods, more branches in skills, and so on.

I guess you could say that there is less choices, but so far as I am getting in further, I get more choices opening up and while there is only two for the most part a lot of time, they wiegh more then having more options.

Seems about the same as ME2. If anything, the skill trees got marginally more RPGish.

At first I thought there was a depressing lack of dialogue, and what conversations there were seemed to be stunted and forced, as well as painful to listen to.

Then I got to Sur'Kesh with some old pals of mine as squaddies and suddenly EVERYTHING WAS HILARIOUS and all was right with the world.

I think what people are talking about when they say stuff was cut is the neutral dialog options, you know, somewhere between a saint and a dick. I've never really used them before, but, from the few hours I've played there are some points where I'm thinking "I don't want to be mean to the guy, but all the nice dialog sounds like I'm hitting on him."

It feels like there's less dialogue choice, and less persuasion - I can count on one hand the amount of time I've used persuasion, and times where you have a significant choice in your reaction to something just seem to crop up less. Note, it's not a LOT less, they're still very much there, but less than they used to be (I'm fairly sure this is indicative of the entire game, as I've already clocked 18 hours or so). And the story seems to be more linearly oriented, although this isn't so much a departure from RPGs than BioWare's usual approach to them. There are also less squad members than there have been previously - I've got 5, and one of them is from the CE DLC.

That said, the STORY is more prominent than it's ever been, it really keeps you focused on what's going on at the moment, and in the big picture. The consequences of your actions throughout all of the games make noticeable and tangible impacts on what happens very frequently. The Citadel feels much more like it did in ME1, which is great, and they've trimmed a lot of the gameplay elements that were dragging it down.

I only really ever play RPGs right now, shooters all feel like they're bland and uninteresting and the same thing I've been playing for 7 years. So Mass Effect hasn't been downgraded from the things that make RPGs great. It is AWESOME.

Let's just sail the choice boat sailed, sunk, and was then plundered by EA for any last gold that sailed with it.
The boat was left there, though.

mikey7339:
Yesterday I played up until you get to the Citadel and everything to me, seems to be the exact same way they left it in ME2. The distribution of skill/squad points, powers, classes, credits & purchases, conversation (paragon & renegade) points.

I had heard a lot of people complaining before the game was released that they were cutting a bunch of the RPG elements out of this game, but honestly I don't see it. Can anyone tell me, what if anything they changed in regards to the RPG aspect?

Also, on a side not I am playing on the PS3. Is any one else on the PS3 experiencing HORRIBLE frame rates when more than a few characters are onscreen at one time during cinematic portions?

I'd imagine the biggest complaint is in regards to the conversations you have with your squadmates onboard the Normandy. While it is nice that they have something neat and unique to say after every mission, people are griping about the fact that conversations with squadmates between missions are handled the same way as Kasumi and Zaeed conversations were: no options, just click on them and they say their line (though in this game Shepard actually responds to what they have to say). I imagine people were looking for more the "talk to squadmates and get the whole "investigate" option to dig more into their personal lives" type of deal. I can definitely understand where they're coming from with that complaint, but at the same time it DOES remove the whole "keep going back to them to make sure they don't have anything new to talk about" type of deal that led to everyone in the Mass Effect universe (even the other characters in the game) questioning Garrus' rather unhealthy obsession with calibrations. :P

Other than that, this game's got everything you need in an RPG: lvls, exp, plenty of sidequests, inventories, upgradeable weapons, etc. Really I think this game functions perfectly as a RPG.

If Anything the Game has evolved more into the Tactical side of things, I remember I could just grab soldier and steam roll the entire game in ME1 on Insane, try that on ME 2 and 3 and you are going to get fucked up fast.

boag:
If Anything the Game has evolved more into the Tactical side of things, I remember I could just grab soldier and steam roll the entire game in ME1 on Insane, try that on ME 2 and 3 and you are going to get fucked up fast.

Well, to be fair that's because Immunity was absurdly broken in ME1. Doesn't really have anything to do with tactics.

OT: ME3 has fewer dialogue options than previous games, but I honestly don't think it takes much away from the game as a whole. The character building is much more prominent than it was in ME2. More weapons, upgrades, armor, etc. You still run into the "eventually I have everything maxed" problem from ME2. I'm level 52 right now and have all but 1 talent maxed.

MetallicaRulez0:

boag:
If Anything the Game has evolved more into the Tactical side of things, I remember I could just grab soldier and steam roll the entire game in ME1 on Insane, try that on ME 2 and 3 and you are going to get fucked up fast.

Well, to be fair that's because Immunity was absurdly broken in ME1. Doesn't really have anything to do with tactics.

OT: ME3 has fewer dialogue options than previous games, but I honestly don't think it takes much away from the game as a whole. The character building is much more prominent than it was in ME2. More weapons, upgrades, armor, etc. You still run into the "eventually I have everything maxed" problem from ME2. I'm level 52 right now and have all but 1 talent maxed.

the fact that you cant just pick a skill and buff it to the max to push button win game does make tactics come into play.

I think they added more then they cut.

- Talent trees for the last 4 of any Power.
- Stats on weapons is back
- Weapon addons/upgrades are back

- They trimmed out the boring useless dialogue options. Now every time you speak it's to make a choice and the conversation goes on from there, no boring standing around looking dumb. Shepard moves and is much more animated about stuff.
- They did get rid of the middle ground stuff, but that was never really any good to begin with.

Seriously, made it to the Normandy and have access to the Galaxy now. I do not know what everyone was complaining about. If it was about the dialog, then good God this has to be one of the worst examples of fanboys raging over nothing. Even the dialog options don't seem cut back, they just seem changed.

undeadsuitor:
I think what people are talking about when they say stuff was cut is the neutral dialog options, you know, somewhere between a saint and a dick. I've never really used them before, but, from the few hours I've played there are some points where I'm thinking "I don't want to be mean to the guy, but all the nice dialog sounds like I'm hitting on him."

Actually, I found that the "mean" dialogue options in ME3 aren't always so mean. When dealing with Shepard's friends, they tend to lean more towards being direct and getting down to business, rather than just generally being a dick.

boag:

MetallicaRulez0:

boag:
If Anything the Game has evolved more into the Tactical side of things, I remember I could just grab soldier and steam roll the entire game in ME1 on Insane, try that on ME 2 and 3 and you are going to get fucked up fast.

Well, to be fair that's because Immunity was absurdly broken in ME1. Doesn't really have anything to do with tactics.

OT: ME3 has fewer dialogue options than previous games, but I honestly don't think it takes much away from the game as a whole. The character building is much more prominent than it was in ME2. More weapons, upgrades, armor, etc. You still run into the "eventually I have everything maxed" problem from ME2. I'm level 52 right now and have all but 1 talent maxed.

the fact that you cant just pick a skill and buff it to the max to push button win game does make tactics come into play.

Step 1: pick Vanguard
Step 2: max charge and nova
Step 3: win game

I barely use any weapons or powers besides charge and nova and I'm playing on hard difficulty. Vanguard = broken (but kinda fun)

Nothing really. In fact, they added to both the RPG elements with improved customization, lots of guns (and not boring ME1 reskin garbage guns), better dialogue that doesn't force you into going 100% Paragon or 100% Renegade, and some choices where both Renegade and Paragon options have much different consequences then what Shepard says. Myself, a hardcore Renegade made several Paragon options when I saw them needed. So yeah, ragers gonna rage. This game is pure win, and it by far a superior game then ME1 and ME2.

And yet there were lots more weapon models, mods and skills in ME1.

Yeah, I know, it was either broken or bland. But the system in place allowed for much more depth and variety if properly calibrated (Garrus knows what I'm talking about :) ).

So there isn't a lack of weapons in this game? That's one complaint that I had gone, what about Armour options? Is there more there too?

Stormz:
So there isn't a lack of weapons in this game? That's one complaint that I had gone, what about Armour options? Is there more there too?

Lack of weapons? Hell no. I think I have at least 3 different options for each weapon type at this point, and I've only been playing for about 15 hours. You can't carry heavy weapons anymore, though; now they're "find them, use them, throw them away" affairs, like any of the guns in Mirror's Edge.

Armor works pretty much exactly as it did in ME2, though now you mostly find armor pieces during missions instead of buying them at stores. In addition, alternate outfits for squadmates will now apply different armor bonuses, though you can't swap out individual armor pieces like you can with Shepard's.

You make it sound like Mass Effect was an RPG before they started cutting corners, well it isnt. The only thing RPG like in Mass Effect is that your Shepard is your own Mary Sue where you can insert yourself in to that universe and do what you will.

If you take out the Mary Sue bullshit of making your own Shepard, moral choices and dialogue options all you have is a sub par third person shooter no better than Gears Of War. Which is probably what the Action Mode is if you choose that option where you can skip all the choice.

None really.

I don't like the shooting controls, they flow like I'm on a grid. And the lack of much walking animation feels like I'm controlling a robot. Thats all forgiven for the much humorous writing and the actual feel like things are going to shit.

No idea, then again I'm fifteen hours in and still waiting for the lousy "lazy" writing.

I've got about 14 hours in the game by now, and the game feels like a mix between the best parts of the first two games. The new dialogue system took some getting used to, but I warmed up to it when I realized you never really had much choice in what Shepard said in the first two games anyway. Hell in the first game, all three dialogue choices would usually have Shepard say the same thing, just giving him Paragon/Renegade points depending if you picked the top or bottom response.

Dialogue choice gripes aside, the character interactions are amazing in this game. It really makes everything feel very personal. Like when I went to the Citadel and met with

Seriously, the writing so far in this is phenomenal... I don't understand where the complaints are coming from. It actually feels like the whole galaxy is just completely crumbling around me, and the only thing I can do is just keep pushing forward and hope I don't get everyone I care about killed. I also like that Shepard(well paragon at least)actually shows some actual emotion in this game!

EDIT

I'd also like to add, that the Citadel is freaking beautiful.

You are comparing it to ME2 which already had most RPG elements cut. the new mass effects are mor of some kind of choose your own story action shooters than an RPG in the classical sense.

Just beat ME3... I saw no RPG elements missing.

If you need to ask.........

Mass effect 2 cut a lot of the RPG elements out, it's still a RPG but it's more of a RPG shooter hybrid.
It's got more RPG than most shooter but also more shooter than RPG. It's a fun experiance but not as great as everyone is making it out to be.

Dandark:
If you need to ask.........

Mass effect 2 cut a lot of the RPG elements out, it's still a RPG but it's more of a RPG shooter hybrid.
It's got more RPG than most shooter but also more shooter than RPG. It's a fun experiance but not as great as everyone is making it out to be.

I actually tried to go through the whole "import your save games" motions because I wanted to play the full thing from the start and ME1 was 1 computer ago.

Let me tell you. Everything they cut made the game better. I was hating every second of ME1 now I knew the plot. Ill take scanning for minerals any day of the week as opposed to individually managing 6 different peoples equipment and mods while only being able to do so on 2 at a time or at base.

Combat was horribly broken due to specific skills being EXTREMELY overpower, only made worse by how clunky the whole thing was.
Everything "cut" made the game better IMO.

Draech:

Dandark:
If you need to ask.........

Mass effect 2 cut a lot of the RPG elements out, it's still a RPG but it's more of a RPG shooter hybrid.
It's got more RPG than most shooter but also more shooter than RPG. It's a fun experiance but not as great as everyone is making it out to be.

I actually tried to go through the whole "import your save games" motions because I wanted to play the full thing from the start and ME1 was 1 computer ago.

Let me tell you. Everything they cut made the game better. I was hating every second of ME1 now I knew the plot. Ill take scanning for minerals any day of the week as opposed to individually managing 6 different peoples equipment and mods while only being able to do so on 2 at a time or at base.

Combat was horribly broken due to specific skills being EXTREMELY overpower, only made worse by how clunky the whole thing was.
Everything "cut" made the game better IMO.

You see, you say that yet I found ME1 to be a more fun game. I didn't care about the combat much at all and actully found myself enjoying the ME1 combat quite a bit. It wasn't that great but I enjoyed it as more of an addition to the game rather than the main focus.
Yes it was broken, yes it was awkward, I still enjoyed it and im guessing that several other people did too.
I have no problem with them changing the game to have better combat and to focus on it more, especially since it will make them more popular but I wish people would stop going on about how ME1 was inferior in every way possible.

No it wasn't. It may have been to most people but there are still those who enjoyed it more than the path they started taking the series down. It was inferior in the way most people compare it, however it wasn't just inferior in every way, there were many parts of it in which they simply took a different approach to ME2.

Dandark:

Draech:

Dandark:
If you need to ask.........

Mass effect 2 cut a lot of the RPG elements out, it's still a RPG but it's more of a RPG shooter hybrid.
It's got more RPG than most shooter but also more shooter than RPG. It's a fun experiance but not as great as everyone is making it out to be.

I actually tried to go through the whole "import your save games" motions because I wanted to play the full thing from the start and ME1 was 1 computer ago.

Let me tell you. Everything they cut made the game better. I was hating every second of ME1 now I knew the plot. Ill take scanning for minerals any day of the week as opposed to individually managing 6 different peoples equipment and mods while only being able to do so on 2 at a time or at base.

Combat was horribly broken due to specific skills being EXTREMELY overpower, only made worse by how clunky the whole thing was.
Everything "cut" made the game better IMO.

You see, you say that yet I found ME1 to be a more fun game. I didn't care about the combat much at all and actully found myself enjoying the ME1 combat quite a bit. It wasn't that great but I enjoyed it as more of an addition to the game rather than the main focus.
Yes it was broken, yes it was awkward, I still enjoyed it and im guessing that several other people did too.
I have no problem with them changing the game to have better combat and to focus on it more, especially since it will make them more popular but I wish people would stop going on about how ME1 was inferior in every way possible.

No it wasn't. It may have been to most people but there are still those who enjoyed it more than the path they started taking the series down. It was inferior in the way most people compare it, however it wasn't just inferior in every way, there were many parts of it in which they simply took a different approach to ME2.

Could you give some direct examples?

I mean I hated the micromanagement of gear. Worst part being it had to be done over 6 different people and you couldn't do so on more than 2 at a time.

The different skills bound made combat flow like a river of bricks. Having a guy who could heal, then you medigel had its own key like the grenade. I spend more time in pausing to make micro manage my damm companions than I did running and gunning. This is not how you have good combat.

And the skills. Dont get me started on the damm skills. Immunity broke combat completely and specific biotic powers could make combat a cakewalk (lift+zero gravity = easy mode). Deus Ex should have thought developers a lesson. How you tie rpg elements to shooters should only affect if you should fight, not how you should fight.

Mass Effect 3 is a step up from Mass Effect 2 in almost every possible way. Including the RPG elements.

Draech:
GLORIOUS SNIP

Your missing the point. The combat in ME2 was supirior to ME1 in pretty much every way. Im not disputing that. The only things I liked better in the first game were being able to use one ability without initating a global cooldown and have guns that overheated rather than needing to reload, even then it's more a matter of opinion.

Im not sure how to explain. I just liked the first game better. Outside of combat I liked pretty much everything better. ME2 added those Paragon and Renegade interruption things that I enjoyed but other than that I much preferred the first game.
I suppose it just had more to it. The second game was pretty much just spent recruiting party members for one mission and I felt it lost some of the atmosphere that I liked in ME1 for a lot of the places in 2.

Im not sure, I just know that I preffered the first game as it seemed more of an RPG with shooter elements as opposed to the second game which seemed like a shooter with RPG elements.

It's been a while since I played either of them so I can't really think of direct examples but I enjoyed the first one more.
Also the second game. All of dat DLC -_- damn it EA.

Also I swear if anyone breaks out the "Oh it's optional" line, im going to rage.

70R4N:

boag:

MetallicaRulez0:

Well, to be fair that's because Immunity was absurdly broken in ME1. Doesn't really have anything to do with tactics.

OT: ME3 has fewer dialogue options than previous games, but I honestly don't think it takes much away from the game as a whole. The character building is much more prominent than it was in ME2. More weapons, upgrades, armor, etc. You still run into the "eventually I have everything maxed" problem from ME2. I'm level 52 right now and have all but 1 talent maxed.

the fact that you cant just pick a skill and buff it to the max to push button win game does make tactics come into play.

Step 1: pick Vanguard
Step 2: max charge and nova
Step 3: win game

I barely use any weapons or powers besides charge and nova and I'm playing on hard difficulty. Vanguard = broken (but kinda fun)

Did you mean Veteran or Insanity?

Dandark:

It's been a while since I played either of them so I can't really think of direct examples but I enjoyed the first one more.

I suggest you go and try to replay the first one. I swear I cant go back again anymore, the amount of time WASTED on walking from X to Y just to initiate something makes the FIRST game irritating and Tedious.

boag:

Dandark:

It's been a while since I played either of them so I can't really think of direct examples but I enjoyed the first one more.

I suggest you go and try to replay the first one. I swear I cant go back again anymore, the amount of time WASTED on walking from X to Y just to initiate something makes the FIRST game irritating and Tedious.

hey! I loved the first game, it was Kotor in space. I even beat it 5 times in a row over the course of a couple weeks to get all the achievements. although the elevator scenes made me want to gouge my eyes out, especially the ones on the normandy.

ME2 was alright, the set pieces were much more interesting and I liked the new characters and expanded story. However the RPG elements in ME2 were kind of a joke, for the most part there were only a couple skills and a couple ranks of each Not exactly the most compelling RPG experience.

ME3 looks like they added more, or at least the skills seem to have more depth than they did in 2. I haven't picked up a copy yet though and only played the demo once but those are my first impressions

Dandark:

Draech:
GLORIOUS SNIP

Your missing the point. The combat in ME2 was supirior to ME1 in pretty much every way. Im not disputing that. The only things I liked better in the first game were being able to use one ability without initating a global cooldown and have guns that overheated rather than needing to reload, even then it's more a matter of opinion.

Im not sure how to explain. I just liked the first game better. Outside of combat I liked pretty much everything better. ME2 added those Paragon and Renegade interruption things that I enjoyed but other than that I much preferred the first game.
I suppose it just had more to it. The second game was pretty much just spent recruiting party members for one mission and I felt it lost some of the atmosphere that I liked in ME1 for a lot of the places in 2.

Im not sure, I just know that I preffered the first game as it seemed more of an RPG with shooter elements as opposed to the second game which seemed like a shooter with RPG elements.

It's been a while since I played either of them so I can't really think of direct examples but I enjoyed the first one more.
Also the second game. All of dat DLC -_- damn it EA.

Also I swear if anyone breaks out the "Oh it's optional" line, im going to rage.

But it IS optio-...just kidding, I agree with everything you've said completely.

"Im not sure, I just know that I preffered the first game as it seemed more of an RPG with shooter elements as opposed to the second game which seemed like a shooter with RPG elements."

Well said. And as far as shooters go, it's not really that good. It's certainly not bad, but if I feel like playing a shooter I don't think "Mass Effect"...

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