ME3 ending standing up against bioware.

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT
 

I'm going to go ahead and say this.

While I think ranting and raving about an ending that you can not do anything about is very immature in certain ways.

You guys have the right to say whatever you want, that is free speech,

It is however very immature to use a charity as a front to try to get them to change the ending.

Thats all I have to say on the subject

Here take this flame shield! quick you'll need it!

OP: So much i agree with dude. this whole things is just overblown. i mean its just an ending right? and the whole retake ME3 campaign reeks of self-entitlement of massive levels. But you can't demand writers to change an ending they thought was a fitting end to THEIR story, which THEY created and allowed the player to shape differently throughout the game. and in the grand scheme of things will it matter? because i reckon right around the corner oh wait Dragon Age III. looking forward to hearing about how some small insignificant detail sucks.

After playing as Sphess 'hesus and going through the games like an Arnold Shwartzenegger Action Hero. Romancing babes, shooting aliens, saying one liners, and not taking myself seriously, I suddenly get a dreary serious ending that offers no closure to my adventure and gives me absolutely nothing? Why am I expecting the endings were made that way so that EA could sell DLC to extend past it?

Its EA and Bioware's fault that the endings are bad. All the consumers are doing is offering EA to redeem themselves in the fanbase's eyes. If they don't then good luck getting their respect again.

It's more like if you commissioned a painting and you noticed a corner of it wasn't shaded, or featured a giant glob of paint, and the painter says "It's my artistic vision, it's supposed to look like that". The fact of the matter is games are a business first and an art second, in the publisher's eyes. Exploiting the consumer and then selling DLC afterwards is in their blood.

Also, stating they worked hard on the endings and finding out much of the content of them was copied from open source images off of Google, yeah not buying their excuse.

When I buy a video game I am buying a product that has been developed and published by large teams across multiple companies. It is marketed and sold to me as a consumer product, as such I am allowed to share my the issues I encounter with the product and inform those around me, as well as the company(s) who sold it to me. Game developers hire artists to contribute to the project and, in my opinion, video games can be considered a form of art. They are not however sold as art and consumers should not treat them as art when voicing their issues regarding it (when discussing it as a consumer product). There is no way to know if this was actually the ending that the writers intended/wanted for the franchise. There could have been a crunch, they could have run out of time, whatever it was the fact of that matter is: the executives and publishers call the shots. They want a functioning product out and are willing to release it to the market in an incomplete state.

You can look at this situation as people asking an author to change his story if you want. Though, in this industry it is far more complicated than that. In the end the companies want as much feedback as they can get to maximize profits in the future.

Also, its important to remember: the ME franchise was built on the premise of player choice and importance. This notion was betrayed in the end and doesn't deliver what was promised. Customers have just as much of a right to complain as Bioware has to ignore them.

And who are you to tell other people what they have a right to or not to? Technically in the western world we have the right to critize everyone for everything and they have the right to ignore everything from everyone. Saying that we "don't have the right" is just an arbitrary and reactionary statement without substance. We do have a right and since a lot of us pissed off with the ending, we express that right in every way possible, to get thing we don't like changed. And if Bioware feels that those critic might do damage to the brand Mass Effect and therefore future sales, has the right to change the endings.

I don't see how its a bad ending, its not great and they kinda backed themselves into a corner that they will have to pull out some fancy stuff to continue the series.

Adultism:
I don't see how its a bad ending, its not great and they kinda backed themselves into a corner that they will have to pull out some fancy stuff to continue the series.

thats why i like the ending. means that Mass effects over and bioware can move on to something new.

Adultism:
Woooow. I just realized something.

Creative work

That you did not make.

You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3, its a creative work that THEY worked hard on, you didn't do anything and raging about it on the internet is not going to change anything. Bioware said they won't change the ending I'm pretty sure as well, and starting a charity to CHANGE their mind? Thats a low blow. Hey we are donating for children if you don't change the ME3 ending you are against helping children is basically what is going on. If you buy a piece of art and don't like it, you don't go over to the artist and tell him to change it. They worked hard on it, so what gives you the right to spit in their face and tell them that they need to change the ending?

Note, I'm being realistic. Don't get upset and state your point validly. Otherwise don't post.

EDIT: The ending wasn't good, but I didn't think it was as bad as people are raving about, yeah it was copy pasted but the OVERALL ending wasn't bad at all, life sucks then you die. I knew something like that was going to happen.

Let me state my point and then I guess you can tell me if it's valid or not?

Thanks to folks who are WAY faster at playing these games than I (I just finished off ME2 at the end of this summer and was disappointed with it as many were.) I will not be buying ME3. Thanks to the business model that Bioware/EA now have adopted, I will not be supporting ANY of their products in the future. The same goes for other gamers I have talked to who aren't so upset as fans of games but as people who don't really want to be anyone's little bitch. As it turns out people don't like being screwed over. Fact is, they're kinda' tired about it and more than a little pissed off.

I don't believe we are the only group like this, also at least in my area, sales for ME3 are much lower than they were for 2. So I guess it's getting out that upsetting the base that you basically feed on isn't such a great idea?

Also this is not about changing the game or story. Forget that. Done is done and thanks to those of you who have beaten this game this fast we know what happens in the end and a Maplethorpe that's been wiped off is still pretty shitty.

NOTE: I'm being realistic too. If you feel that you've not gotten the value you paid for a product. (In my case ME2) You have a right to not buy that product any more. In other words you have a right to fire the greedy, stupid bastard that thought they could just cash in on earlier success with a bunch of promises, misleading b.s. (such as reviews), and flat out lies. So yes I'm calling EA a bunch of liars and I'm saying that the reviewers who are giving this game nearly perfect scores are either liars or they're just that stupid.

So you thought the ending was fine. Good for you. Lots of people didn't. Their opinion is no less wrong then yours.

As far as the Child's Play thing goes. Hey, guess what? No one's holding a gun to your head and telling you have to donate. If you disagree, then don't donate. What? You feel guilty because of the children that aren't getting money because you like (or tolerate) the ending? Well, fortunately, you can donate money directly to Child's Play through their official website!
Guilt averted! Children helped! No need to support the "change the ending" drive!

...but I get the feeling you'd rather just sooner keep your money.

As far as "you can't criticize this! It's someone's creative work!". Bull. People make a living criticizing people's work. This very website does it on a daily basis. Now with something like a book or painting, there's nothing you can really do, except apologize that you felt it didn't live up to their expectations, learn the lesson for your next series, and tell your supporters you're doing so, so hopefully they'll decide to stick with you. However, this is a video game in the 2010's, that have the ability to be altered through the internet. Hell, BioWare charged for this extra "DownLoadable Content" on the first day. By all appearances, it would seem that having an alternate ending DLC would be pretty popular. They probably could even charge for it. Hell, some people said they'd pay for it. Now, some have said that would piss them off more. Bet you that they'll buy it anyway. If it delivers, they'll probably even forgive them for it.

Besides, movies have done alternate endings for YEARS. I mean, hell. They completely re-edited Highlander 2 into a "Renegade Version" that removed all references to stupid aliens, purely due to fan "bitching". I Am Legend added an alternate ending to the DVD when the producers and writers were stupid and put in an ending that was not only a huge departure from the book, but made absolutely no sense, all due to people complaining. Just a couple of examples.

Want an example outside of movies. Hal Fricking Jordan. Go watch the Big Picture and listen to Bob's history lesson about the Green Lantern comic. Not only was the character brought back to life, but was absolved of all the atrocities he committed. This was done by a HUGE fanbase drive to do so. And one writer finally listened. As Garrus said in Mass Effect 3, sometimes to get people to act, you've got to kick and scream until you get their attention.

The thing is, we're not talking about "Some game that came out". If this was the original Mass Effect, people would have just shrugged their shoulders, not supported it, and the series would have died a quiet death. This is a series of games that people have become invested in for the last five years. Have developed emotional connections to the characters with. Wanted to know more about the universe it took place in. It was their passion for the series and their support that saw the sequels made, and all these people wanted was an ending that felt complete and was dependent of their actions as BioWare had promised MANY times, or at the very least, would make sense!

But it is not out of hatred of BioWare that people are complaining (for the most part. It's not that they hate the game. On the contrary, its because of the sheer love for series for the reasons mentioned above. It could have been the Star Wars of this generation. Even more so. I mean, in Star Wars, you just got to watch Luke deal with situations he's dealt. In Mass Effect, you didn't just get attached to the character, you were the character. You got to make the decisions, whether for good, or for ill. And to have all the choices you made, all the benefits they gave, all the consequences you had to endure because of them, to have all that (to many people) taken away and made irrelevant in the last five minutes of an otherwise exceptional series, it should be understandable why people could be that upset.

"It's just a game!" I can hear. Why cry over a piece of music? It's just music. Why be excited when a kid wizard in a book gets the best of his nemesis? It's just a book. Why get upset when the villain in the TV series unexpectedly gets the upper hand of the hero? It's just a TV show. Why be passionate about any form of medium? Should just devour it unemotionally, no matter how trite it is. Should we not demand better?

I'm not trying to convince you that the ending is bad. If you find it tolerable, again, good for you. However, for people to dismiss the ones that feel that the ending did not live up to the series they are passionate about as bitching, or even self-entitled, I find these people at best, self-entitled themselves, and at worst, hypocritical.

This has gone far beyond tl;dr. That's my two cents. Take it or don't. I don't give a damn if you didn't ask for it.

42:

Adultism:
I don't see how its a bad ending, its not great and they kinda backed themselves into a corner that they will have to pull out some fancy stuff to continue the series.

thats why i like the ending. means that Mass effects over and bioware can move on to something new.

EA

Move on

Haha, oh that's rich

Maybe you don't have that right. However in my country we absolutely do have the right to use our free speech to try and convince someone to change what they have done or are doing.

Personally though I'm not trying to make them change the ending, its a terrible ending, life is full of little dissipointments and this is just one of them and I have accepted it as such.

Capcha: that hurts.

How dare those people have an opinion and how are they actully have the gall to oppose Bioware. We all know Bioware are the best and they could do no wrong, if someone dares to be unhappy about their work then i'll fling words like whiny and entitled at them. Yeah that will show them how much mature we are.

I somehow feel this is relevant.image

People who hate the endings are more than welcome to come on the internet and bitch about it as long as they do so within the rules of the forum. They also must not fall into the group that would be grouped and described under the above picture.

Adultism:
so what gives you the right to spit in their face and tell them that they need to change the ending?

Umm... Free speech? The fundamental concepts about how communication works? Nobody should need to be given the right to complain about something they don't like.

The only thing people don't have the right to do is physically force Bioware to change things up, and even that can be accomplished in the form of not spending money on shit if they feel strongly enough about it. Beyond that, people have opinions, get used to it.

Fappy:
There is no way to know if this was actually the ending that the writers intended/wanted for the franchise.

There could have been a crunch, they could have run out of time, whatever it was the fact of that matter is: the executives and publishers call the shots. They want a functioning product out and are willing to release it to the market in an incomplete state.

There's a contradiction in your statement. You have no way of knowing what went on in any specific amount of detail during the development of Mass Effect 3, but you still posit an assumption without evidence?

On your last point, the choices that I had made over the previous two games and throughout the third, informed my final decision at the end. I got to see the culmination of all the character arcs that mattered to me; I daresay that is the very definition of player choice within the constraints of a directed narrative. It was my version of Shepard story.

I don't begrudge you for disliking what was presented, but I don't see any breach of ethics which is what a lot of people are puffing into hyperbole. I would say that there has been a fundamental dissonance in expectation.

Mirrorknight:
Massive snip

I... I love you.

OT: I don't think you can stop people from expressing their opinions. I agree in that they worked hard on the game and that, since it's their IP, they could do pretty much anything they wanted with it, however that doesn't grant them protection from criticism. Also, while I'm one of the many that would like an official satisfying ending, I wouldn't try to force them into changing it.

Adultism:
Woooow. I just realized something.

Creative work

That you did not make.

You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3, its a creative work that THEY worked hard on, you didn't do anything and raging about it on the internet is not going to change anything. Bioware said they won't change the ending I'm pretty sure as well, and starting a charity to CHANGE their mind? Thats a low blow. Hey we are donating for children if you don't change the ME3 ending you are against helping children is basically what is going on. If you buy a piece of art and don't like it, you don't go over to the artist and tell him to change it. They worked hard on it, so what gives you the right to spit in their face and tell them that they need to change the ending?

Note, I'm being realistic. Don't get upset and state your point validly. Otherwise don't post.

EDIT: The ending wasn't good, but I didn't think it was as bad as people are raving about, yeah it was copy pasted but the OVERALL ending wasn't bad at all, life sucks then you die. I knew something like that was going to happen.

We funded it. That makes it right for us to voice our opinion.

Also: The SECOND the catalyst was mentioned I instantly thought: Fuck...Shepard is either going to have to be the catalyst herself...or is gonna have to direct/accept one of her friends to be it.

And a couple of handfuls of hours laters....LO AND BEHOLD. Uninspired as FUCK. Plus the lack of epilogue is jarring.

Adultism:
You have no right to try to make Bioware change the ending of ME3

Now I'll say up front I agree with everyone who thinks Bioware shouldn't have to change the ending. It's their work, they own it, and they have every right to say fuck you if you don't like it. Moreover, I'm not sure what make people think that if the unsatisfying ending was the one they went with after two years (maybe more) of development, why they believe that demanding they do better will produce anything that improves on it.

But the thing I dislike here, and with everyone else complaining about people demanding the ending be changed, is when you say people have no right to demand they change it. Last I checked free speech is still a right, and it's simply absurd to say that people have no right to demand they change the ending because they didn't like it. People have every right to demand anything they want from Bioware and to say anything they want about their game. Just as Bioware has the right to not listen.

People always have the right to complain.

And if Bioware chooses to change it's their choice.

If you like the ending, that's fine, different strokes for different folks.
But to say they/we shouldn't be allowed to request it be changed? That's just ludicrous.

Honestly at this point I don't care if it's changed or not,I honestly plan on trading in the game soon, and Bioware releasing some new ending ,whether planned all along or not would be stupid IMO.

But of course people have a right to request a change.
If they do a 'revised ending' and you don't like it....pretend it doesn't exist, you at least got an ending you liked.

I won't ask them to change it. I can still say it was shit though.

Mirrorknight:
snip

This is easily one of the best delivered rebutals to those who object to people complaining about the ending I've seen. I salute you

Mirrorknight:
snip.

Thank you good sir :3

Mirrorknight:
So you thought the ending was fine. Good for you. Lots of people didn't. Their opinion is no less wrong then yours.

As far as the Child's Play thing goes. Hey, guess what? No one's holding a gun to your head and telling you have to donate. If you disagree, then don't donate. What? You feel guilty because of the children that aren't getting money because you like (or tolerate) the ending? Well, fortunately, you can donate money directly to Child's Play through their official website!
Guilt averted! Children helped! No need to support the "change the ending" drive!

...but I get the feeling you'd rather just sooner keep your money.

As far as "you can't criticize this! It's someone's creative work!". Bull. People make a living criticizing people's work. This very website does it on a daily basis. Now with something like a book or painting, there's nothing you can really do, except apologize that you felt it didn't live up to their expectations, learn the lesson for your next series, and tell your supporters you're doing so, so hopefully they'll decide to stick with you. However, this is a video game in the 2010's, that have the ability to be altered through the internet. Hell, BioWare charged for this extra "DownLoadable Content" on the first day. By all appearances, it would seem that having an alternate ending DLC would be pretty popular. They probably could even charge for it. Hell, some people said they'd pay for it. Now, some have said that would piss them off more. Bet you that they'll buy it anyway. If it delivers, they'll probably even forgive them for it.

Besides, movies have done alternate endings for YEARS. I mean, hell. They completely re-edited Highlander 2 into a "Renegade Version" that removed all references to stupid aliens, purely due to fan "bitching". I Am Legend added an alternate ending to the DVD when the producers and writers were stupid and put in an ending that was not only a huge departure from the book, but made absolutely no sense, all due to people complaining. Just a couple of examples.

Want an example outside of movies. Hal Fricking Jordan. Go watch the Big Picture and listen to Bob's history lesson about the Green Lantern comic. Not only was the character brought back to life, but was absolved of all the atrocities he committed. This was done by a HUGE fanbase drive to do so. And one writer finally listened. As Garrus said in Mass Effect 3, sometimes to get people to act, you've got to kick and scream until you get their attention.

The thing is, we're not talking about "Some game that came out". If this was the original Mass Effect, people would have just shrugged their shoulders, not supported it, and the series would have died a quiet death. This is a series of games that people have become invested in for the last five years. Have developed emotional connections to the characters with. Wanted to know more about the universe it took place in. It was their passion for the series and their support that saw the sequels made, and all these people wanted was an ending that felt complete and was dependent of their actions as BioWare had promised MANY times, or at the very least, would make sense!

But it is not out of hatred of BioWare that people are complaining (for the most part. It's not that they hate the game. On the contrary, its because of the sheer love for series for the reasons mentioned above. It could have been the Star Wars of this generation. Even more so. I mean, in Star Wars, you just got to watch Luke deal with situations he's dealt. In Mass Effect, you didn't just get attached to the character, you were the character. You got to make the decisions, whether for good, or for ill. And to have all the choices you made, all the benefits they gave, all the consequences you had to endure because of them, to have all that (to many people) taken away and made irrelevant in the last five minutes of an otherwise exceptional series, it should be understandable why people could be that upset.

"It's just a game!" I can hear. Why cry over a piece of music? It's just music. Why be excited when a kid wizard in a book gets the best of his nemesis? It's just a book. Why get upset when the villain in the TV series unexpectedly gets the upper hand of the hero? It's just a TV show. Why be passionate about any form of medium? Should just devour it unemotionally, no matter how trite it is. Should we not demand better?

I'm not trying to convince you that the ending is bad. If you find it tolerable, again, good for you. However, for people to dismiss the ones that feel that the ending did not live up to the series they are passionate about as bitching, or even self-entitled, I find these people at best, self-entitled themselves, and at worst, hypocritical.

This has gone far beyond tl;dr. That's my two cents. Take it or don't. I don't give a damn if you didn't ask for it.

boom exactly, there are so many reasons to care/want this, yet people refuse to see why.

honestly i don't care about spoilers and stuff, so i went and checked out all the stuff, and as soon as i saw/read the endings...i lost all motivation to want to beat the game, let alone go back and play me1 and me2...why? because apparently to bioware, it doesn't mean jack shit, nor does the tone/theme from the first two games, apparently that all went to shit in the shite endings that were released. (hell they can still be there, just do what fallout 3 did and do an expansion for the ending to give additional endings to those that go the extra mile in everything.)

Still Life:

Fappy:
There is no way to know if this was actually the ending that the writers intended/wanted for the franchise.

There could have been a crunch, they could have run out of time, whatever it was the fact of that matter is: the executives and publishers call the shots. They want a functioning product out and are willing to release it to the market in an incomplete state.

There's a contradiction in your statement. You have no way of knowing what went on in any specific amount of detail during the development of Mass Effect 3, but you still posit an assumption without evidence?

On your last point, the choices that I had made over the previous two games and throughout the third, informed my final decision at the end. I got to see the culmination of all the character arcs that mattered to me; I daresay that is the very definition of player choice within the constraints of a directed narrative. It was my version of Shepard story.

I don't begrudge you for disliking what was presented, but I don't see any breach of ethics which is what a lot of people are puffing into hyperbole. I would say that there has been a fundamental dissonance in expectation.

I think I may have gotten a little ahead of myself there, it was 2 am after all >.>

That last little quote of mine should have been a bit more generalized. The point I intended to get across was something along the lines of: in most cases executives and publishers (not specific to EA/Bioware) want to get their product out the door, even if it is an incomplete state.

Think I mentioned this in another thread somewhere too, but to a certain extent I think Bioware brought this upon themselves by making such a big hairy deal of taking fan feedback on board in the past. Let's look at just a few of the examples:

- Pretty much everyone hated the Mako sections in ME1, so they were pulled for ME2
- Absolutely everyone hated the planet scanning in ME2, so it was all but removed from ME3
- People complained we didn't get any planet exploration in ME2, so we got the Hammerhead DLC packs
- Fans raged over the inaccuracies in the latest spinoff novel, and within days Bioware had made a public statement saying they'd fix it and reprint the book (still waiting on that, BTW)
- People bitched and moaned that there weren't proper gay romance options in ME1 or 2, so they got added for ME3
- There was apparently a huge uproar over the leaked script to ME3, and again IIRC, Bioware came out and officially said they were taking the comments on board and changing the script

Given Bioware's history of doing things to please/appease fans of this series alone, is it really surprising that fans are turning to them again expecting them to do something?!?

It's fine if you don't want the ending changed, but can we please stop pretending that they actually worked hard on that ending? It was clearly thrown together because they couldn't think of anything. I don't care that Shepard died but I do care that every choice made up to that point is disregarded.

Also, didn't Bioware overhaul the script in November when it was leaked and the fans figured out it was crap? What's wrong with trying to do the same thing after release?

42:

Adultism:
I don't see how its a bad ending, its not great and they kinda backed themselves into a corner that they will have to pull out some fancy stuff to continue the series.

thats why i like the ending. means that Mass effects over and bioware can move on to something new.

Did you watch the easter egg after the credits? Did you know that Bioware has recommended that you keep your ME3 save file for some undisclosed reason?

80sGuy:

42:

Adultism:
I don't see how its a bad ending, its not great and they kinda backed themselves into a corner that they will have to pull out some fancy stuff to continue the series.

thats why i like the ending. means that Mass effects over and bioware can move on to something new.

Did you watch the easter egg after the credits? Did you know that Bioware has recommended that you keep your ME3 save file for some undisclosed reason?

Thanks for playing. BUY DLC! >:O

80sGuy:
Did you watch the easter egg after the credits? Did you know that Bioware has recommended that you keep your ME3 save file for some undisclosed reason?

Given the game dumps you back at the point right before the point of no return on the final mission (invasion of the Illusive Man's base) I think it's pretty safe to assume that DLC content will be intended to fit before the final mission in the game's chronology.

Pretty sure I remember reading something from Bioware to that effect as well: that there wouldn't be any post-ending DLC, but that doesn't preclude pre-ending or multiplayer DLC.

Of course, that could all change if they cave to fan pressure :P

In my days you couldn't even get bugs fixed, now people bitch about anything.

80sGuy:

42:

Adultism:
I don't see how its a bad ending, its not great and they kinda backed themselves into a corner that they will have to pull out some fancy stuff to continue the series.

thats why i like the ending. means that Mass effects over and bioware can move on to something new.

Did you watch the easter egg after the credits? Did you know that Bioware has recommended that you keep your ME3 save file for some undisclosed reason?

Yeah i know its EA and *sigh* DLC, but I just want to see this series put to bed. one can hope right?

esperandote:
In my days you couldn't even get bugs fixed, now people bitch about anything.

Yep. In my day a beloved RPG series that ran for 20 years completely fell apart in the final game, which was riddled with game crippling bugs, horrible game play, and bizarre character and lore breaking retcons. It was never fixed, and the series collapsed and fell into obscurity, later to be turned into an ambitious but troubled MMO and then later into a soul destroying Facebook game.

Man, am I ever glad we're not in those fucking days any more, and games with screwed up endings, like Fallout 3, sometimes get fixed.

As a writer when you write a story you have a duty to the work and to your audience to actually write an ending.

That's not what Bioware's writers have done. The available resolutions to the trilogy just smack of something being cobbled together. They are entirely throw away, do nothing to resolve any of the issues in the main narrative or character arcs and don't factor in anything to do with player choice throughout the trilogy. You can't create a story as vast as mass effects and then just end it with what boils down to "And then this happened, goodbye."

It doesn't even feel like the game has an ending yet just some weird dream sequence with the star child before you wake up in some rubble after being shoot by the reaper beam

I'm in two minds on this. One level I think authorial control should be respected and the OP has a point because it's their project and their story. But at the same time people have every right to explain why they didn't like the ending. Part of putting something up for public scrutiny is to get feedback and if you do that you should take the good with the bad.

The DEMANDING a rewrite however is just entitled childishness as far as I'm concerned and if people really want a new ending write your own. Bioware's responsibility IMHO is to take on board the criticisms and bear them in mind when working on their next project unless the ending is a product of time and budget constraints in which case fair enough.

 Pages 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT

Reply to Thread

This thread is locked