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No. Gamers are not acting entitled enough. They are spending money on a product that they are dissatisfied with. Gamers need to understand that they are the consumers, the consumers are always right, and that the way to change an industry is to vote with your wallet. Shame on anybody who complained about a product but still bought it.

Frehls:
Basically what we have here are refutations of the "entitlement" bullshit gaming media and devs/publishers are slinging around like howling monkeys.

Total Biscuit on entitlement (starts at 10:49): "Stop thinking you can't make demands. This is how capitalism works."

I see a-lot of people adopting the 'it's their art, they can do as they please' but I can't really agree with that. Once you put something up for public sale as a product, it ceases to be just art. Your consumers have a right to criticize your product and ask for changes. It's up to you to give it to them, but they have a right.

If I were say the artist/writer of a popular graphic novel and I decided to kill off the main character in a chapter, sure it's my art and I have the right to do that. The people that purchase the graphic novel have the right to be upset and criticize my choices and even ask me to re-write it or non-canonize it.

Because in the end, I'm not making this graphic novel for myself, I'm making it to entertain and give pleasure. If I'm not doing that, what's the point?

Lucem712:
I see a-lot of people adopting the 'it's their art, they can do as they please' but I can't really agree with that. Once you put something up for public sale as a product, it ceases to be just art. Your consumers have a right to criticize your product and ask for changes. It's up to you to give it to them, but they have a right.

If I were say the artist/writer of a popular graphic novel and I decided to kill off the main character in a chapter, sure it's my art and I have the right to do that. The people that purchase the graphic novel have the right to be upset and criticize my choices and even ask me to re-write it or non-canonize it.

Because in the end, I'm not making this graphic novel for myself, I'm making it to entertain and give pleasure. If I'm not doing that, what's the point?

Tycho from Penny Arcade on the concept of the artist's vision being sacrosanct:

There's a countercharge now, in response to anger about the endings, that describes Bioware's output as sacrosanct in some way - beyond criticism. This is fundamentally batshit, or as noted "speculative fiction" author Harlan Ellison might say, bugfuck. I'm fine with the ending, which to my mind started as soon as I ran the executable - the whole game is denouement - but I revolt against the idea of Authorial Divinity almost at the molecular level. I bet Ken Levine would take a redo on Bioshock, for example. To hear them tell it, there is plenty about Deus Ex: Human Revolution the developer would change. Fallout's "Broken Steel" DLC actually does modify the ending considerably.

What do I think? This "entitlement" thing people are trying to spread is exactly what you said it is: bullshit. If I pay someone to paint a mural on my wall and 95% of it is, say, a tasteful and inspiring view of 1590s London and 5% is GIANT SPEWING DONGS, am I acting "entitled" if I complain?

Or if I have someone build me a house, and everything is absolutely perfect except for the fact that opening the bedroom door causes a spring-loaded boxing glove to punch me in the balls, am I being "entitled" if I think that part of the house needs some serious work before the whole thing is complete to my satisfaction?

Buzz Killington:

Or if I have someone build me a house, and everything is absolutely perfect except for the fact that opening the bedroom door causes a spring-loaded boxing glove to punch me in the balls, am I being "entitled" if I think that part of the house needs some serious work before the whole thing is complete to my satisfaction?

As an aspiring architect, that's going into all my future designs.

As I said many times, it seems it's easier to guilt trip your customers than it is to do actual work. But good luck keeping them with that attitude.

dreadedcandiru99:
Total Biscuit on entitlement (starts at 10:49): "Stop thinking you can't make demands. This is how capitalism works."

You know I saw TBs original video calling a boycott on ME3, and I thought he missed the mark slightly (as in, we shouldn't be uniting in or against anything at all - the whole group think is half the problem - but rather we should be seriously considering individually our rights to not purchase). But watching that vid you just linked, I see he's got the right position firmly nailed down. Good for him; he's spot on.

There is nothing wrong with the word "entitled", which probably has as much negative background as "morning". I am (personally) entitled to demand certain quality and certain level of treatment and if I don't get it, I simply move somewhere else. If gamers don't act like entitled customers they are just hurting the industry and probably have no clue what that word means.

I'm a fking entitled customer and I'm proud of it! It's my money, deal with it. May sound arrogant, but that's the market's reality. If I don't pursue my demands (through wallet decisions) the companies will just sweep the floor with me.

Also I don't believe gamers are entitled enough and the current climate (where people who act as entitled are being shown in negative fashion) only proves that gamers as a whole aren't mature enough and deserve what they are getting from companies like EA or Activision.
You require a clean dish, fork and knife when you go to a restaurant (because you pay). Same principal.

Entitlement doesn't mean anything in the context of this ME3 debate anymore. There isn't even a debate anymore. It's just pissed off gamers and annoyed trolls parroting the same three or four arguments and the same half a dozen keywords.

Holy shit, Forbes guys know what they're talking about. And yes, I am entitled to complain. You can't just ignore your paying customers and plug your ears going "lalalala I can't hear you!". Too often, well thought out posts with deeply explained criticisms are shut out by the "stfu dud its there game n they can do wath dey wan" posts. And not listening to your fans has consequences, look at what happened to TOR. The failure of Bioware to listen to their fans caused a huge exodus of players.

WoW Killer:
No. Gamers are not acting entitled enough. They are spending money on a product that they are dissatisfied with. Gamers need to understand that they are the consumers, the consumers are always right, and that the way to change an industry is to vote with your wallet. Shame on anybody who complained about a product but still bought it.

So much of this.

There are many gamers who need to realize that paying $60 for a product does actually "entitle" you to a few things.
I am very glad to see that others are starting to get tired of the rampant misuse of the term which has plagued gamers lately. Some like to use it because they think it wins their argument but they don't understand that in the proper context, they're just making themselves look like idiots.

edit

I don't play games that I don't like or don't think are worth my money. It's worked great for years.

Gamers aren't 'acting entitled', by which I mean that they are ACTUALLY entitled to do what they're doing and there's nothing wrong with that. They're seeing something that is of evidently poor quality, and they are pointing that out. They may go a little far at times, but they're criticizing something for being bad, and shouting at the top of their lungs that it sucks, in the hopes that someone will take the hint and put a little effort into making something that doesn't suck that way. People do it with all sorts of other things, why make games any different? Would you PREFER that there was a universally enforced ban on criticizing anything, ever? Imagine the problems that would cause, not to mention how monumentally stupid of an idea it is.

Chemical Alia:
I don't play games that I don't like or don't think are worth my money. It's worked great for years.

But we did think it was worth it and except for the last 5 minutes it was. If they just change the ending the majority of us will be happy.

For $60 you're dam right I'm entitled! I'm entitled to a product that's worth my time and money.

I firmly believe we as consumers have a right to ask the creator of a product to change something we don't like. Then those creators have the right to decline our request. However, by us expressing our dislike of something we are letting those companies know that whatever they did was something we did not like and we would like it if they changed it.

Sure, it is their product but they are expecting to sell it and the best way to do that is to keep your consumer base happy. Just tossing out some "it's our product, we will do what we want" just doesn't cut it for me. Sure, it is your product but that doesn't mean I have to buy it from you or support future things.

Also, Forbes as a source for gaming news? Amazing. I've been sort of not liking this site too much recently (just come to support LRR mostly) so maybe that is a good alternative...

Plus maybe I can catch up on some stocks!

dreadedcandiru99:

Frehls:
Basically what we have here are refutations of the "entitlement" bullshit gaming media and devs/publishers are slinging around like howling monkeys.

Total Biscuit on entitlement (starts at 10:49): "Stop thinking you can't make demands. This is how capitalism works."

I <3 Cynical Brit. ^_^

Also yes, gamers are entitled, to an extent. But at the same time, we're consumers of a product. And beyond all expectations, keep buying utter garbage. Stop buying crap, people, and crap will cease to be made.

I think it's more of a sometimes kind of thing. Games have gotten consistently cheaper if you account for inflation. At the same time publishers can be massive douchebags sometimes with their DLC and DRM. EULA's are also a fucking nightmare. Yet, we are extremely disconnected from the difficulties of developing games and sometimes are quite clearly in the wrong. We don't understand that DLC can be both a blessing and a curse, and we expect everybody to act like Valve when they only get away with it because hats are so damn addictive. At times gamers are entitled, at times they aren't. The ME3 controversies show this quite clearly.

spectrenihlus:

Chemical Alia:
I don't play games that I don't like or don't think are worth my money. It's worked great for years.

But we did think it was worth it and except for the last 5 minutes it was. If they just change the ending the majority of us will be happy.

Huh? I have no idea what you're referring to.

Once again, We pay to play content, We own a disk with content on it, but we don't own the content ourselves.

Just like we don't OWN a xbox360 we own the right to play it until we do something that warrants Microsoft disabling our system.

Consumer is only always right if the producer wants their product to sell. If a developer lets out a game and consumers demand changes then the developer would be wise to make them if he is in it for the money. If however, he is just making a game for the love of it then he does not have to cave in to the demands.
It was big reason I liked Notch for making Minecraft how he liked it.

Yes, people have the right to complain about a product but the owner(s) of the product have the right to ignore them.

Generally, I think that if you don't like a game, don't buy the game.If you don't like Coca-Cola, you don't buy Coke. If you don't like Volkswagen cars you don't buy Volkswagen cars. You don't ask them to change it. At least not in the same way some gamers voice their opinion.

You are not required to drop 60$ on it on day one without bothering to look at any reviews or anything. Shocking, I know. If you suspect you will not get satisfaction worth [cost of game] when buying a game, then maybe don't buy the game instead of complaining that you bought it and it wasn't worth the money.

Basically, I'm saying this.

Chemical Alia:
I don't play games that I don't like or don't think are worth my money. It's worked great for years.

And I don't mean gamers shouldn't complain ever. You can voice your opinion, that is fine. Don't bombard the Internet with it. That, I think, is abusing the privilege.

Adultism:
Just like we don't OWN a xbox360 we own the right to play it until we do something that warrants Microsoft disabling our system.

Oh god, please tell me this is sarcasm. With some of the things I've seen said around here, especially on this particular topic, I just can't tell any more.

(Just in case it's not: I own my XBox, lock stock and barrel. The only thing Microsoft has a "right" to do is cut off my access to XBox Live.)

Buzz Killington:
Or if I have someone build me a house, and everything is absolutely perfect except for the fact that opening the bedroom door causes a spring-loaded boxing glove to punch me in the balls, am I being "entitled" if I think that part of the house needs some serious work before the whole thing is complete to my satisfaction?

I think you've taken this thing entirely out of context. It's one thing to talk about a games ending, yet you've gone off on a whole other tangent. It's their game, they're allowed to make the decisions they want to.

HeatproofShAdOw:

I think you've taken this thing entirely out of context. It's one thing to talk about a games ending, yet you've gone off on a whole other tangent. It's their game, they're allowed to make the decisions they want to.

This is true, I would submit however that the consumer is also within their rights to complain about the product if they found it unsatisfactory. Of course the developer can ignore them, that's their prerogative, but there's nothing inherently wrong about a gamer requesting a change be made to the game through DLC or a patch.

If people want to take the time to lobby with a developer for a specific kind of change then so be it. If the movement gains enough momentum and the developer believes it should give into those requests/demands (for reasons financial or otherwise) then the lobbying effort of the consumers was successful, if the developer decides against it then also fine, the disgruntled can vote with their wallet next time.

Holy fuck yes. All these developers, and that means every single person on the team, the artists, writers, programmers, level designers, QA, all of them, put years of their life into one product to entertain us, and what do we say? "Fuck all of you, the last five minutes of your game were disappointing so I'm never buying from you again, you betrayed your entire fanbase", and then we accuse them of hating their customers and being corrupted by the "evil" publishers. For the love of god, every name you see in the credits of a game is a person just like you, be a little fucking grateful once in a while.

There are times when gamers act too entitled, and make a big deal out of the tiniest things that would make any reasonable developer alienated with their players.

Then there's a point where people SHOULD be entitled. Such as import gamers like me who have to import ridiculous amounts of games because they never get an English localization.

You have no idea how long it took to get Tales of Graces, and how ill the possibilities are for Tales of Xillia, especially if Graces doesn't sell insanely well. If you Dark Souls fans don't get your game for PC, you'll have just a taste of what us Tales of fans have been putting up with for years.

Speaking of which, go get Tales of Graces f right now if you can. It's an important purchase and title. And will do loads for supporting other important titles.

Why does this topic have so much Mass Effect in it? Time for Tales of Graces discussions, right now.

Gamers are not entitled to any additional content just like Bioware is not entitled to any future game sales. At this point, Bioware risks alienating their fanbase and potentially sabotaging any future customer loyalty. If I was a new gamer who just picked up ME3 for the first time (as the game was advertised) I wouldn't be inclined to buy another Bioware game after the shoddy, ramshackle ending and the incredibly poor response from Bioware.

See, Bioware can't damage control to save their lives. Their PR policy is one of brutal censorship on the forums and juvenile back talk to their critics. They're response of "la la la, not listening you dirty trolls!" has shielded the the writing team from any legitimate criticism, the Jennifer Hepler incident being the prime example of poor Bioware PR.

Does Bioware have to change the ending? No. But the majority of Mass Effect fans are unhappy and Bioware cannot afford to stick their heads in the ground. If nothing else, they need to sit up, take notice and actually listen to what their fans have to say. Bioware is almost exclusively built on multi-serial franchises and they cannot afford to not listen to their fanbase.

PS: If EA PR is reading this, for the love of God, shut down the Twitter accounts. You're only digging yourselves deeper.

Yes, some of us are too entitled. Sure, I agree that we have the right to complain when a products isn't satisfactory, but we should leave it at that. When we start acting as if a developer/publisher is doing something to us personally, when we get pissed at a publisher for wanting to make money, then we are going too far. Don't tell me this doesn't happen, it does. Day 1 DLC and The ending of Mass Effect 3 are not personal attacks on our intelligence or freedom. Bioware wanted to stir things up with the ending and they did. Missions fucking accomplished.

So to summarize here. We have the right to complain, we have the right to choose what we buy. We should not take personal offense when a game disappoints.

dreadedcandiru99:

Frehls:
Basically what we have here are refutations of the "entitlement" bullshit gaming media and devs/publishers are slinging around like howling monkeys.

Total Biscuit on entitlement (starts at 10:49): "Stop thinking you can't make demands. This is how capitalism works."

This, a thousand times this. I was about to post this video, and you beat me to it, so kudos to you.

We are the consumers, if we can not make demands, then no one will. No one. I really hate the short post for this, but that is just a fact. Watch the video.

Are gamers acting entitled as a whole? No. Just every once in awhile a vocal minority of gamers raise their voice about some perceived transgression against them. Sometimes this is appropriate. Sometimes it's mind-numbingly retarded.

I think it sort of falls on both sides. There are plenty of times where people call others entitled because someone is bitching and moaning about something, which they have every right to do. But at the same time, there are some that come off as entitled when they pose an argument that effectively falls to "What, a company made something and dared to charge me money for it? The nerve!"

Though, I guess it must be said as well.. The customers of a product have the right to criticize the product, pose suggestions, and the like. They are paying money to use it, and if there is any semblance of a service involved (or a repeating purchase), the developers of the product should (as a good business practice) at least take the criticism and suggestions into consideration. BUT (oh no, the caveat!) when the customer crosses that line where they begin to demand, whether it is a change in something that currently exists, the addition of something extra, etc., etc... That is when the customer has crossed the line into the realm of entitlement. And this follows for every industry, every sector, not just games.

In fact, that is the definition of entitled - they feel they are entitled to something, they are making demands.

So, I guess you aren't entitled, unless your being entitled? Shit, there goes my sane argument.

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