WoW's ingame economy is fucked.

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I mean, seriously. I remember back in the day, a piece of cloth would net you, what, 1 silver in the auction house? Maybe even less?

So a few days ago I started playing again. (Friend got me back into it, told me it helps stomaching ME3s ending. It does.) After hours of selling cloth to standard vendors, my friend told me to go look how much I can sell it for in the auction house.

Well, I shat bricks. One stack nets you a ridiculous 10 gold. What the fuck is going on? What happened? What did I miss? Did the world ending strategy that dragon employed consist of giving everyone a shit ton of gold coins? Did silk become a rarity? I cant wrap my head around it. 10 gold man. 10.

I read that as you put more money into an economy, you increase prices. I also heard that that happens in MMO's, so that's the issue. WoW is having an inflation problem. supply and demand may come into play as well. When was the cloth at 1 silver? as in, when it came out?

worldruler8:
I read that as you put more money into an economy, you increase prices. I also heard that that happens in MMO's, so that's the issue. WoW is having an inflation problem. supply and demand may come into play as well. When was the cloth at 1 silver? as in, when it came out?

Few months after Burning Crusade was released.

At a glance the problem seems to be that the world has a fuckton of level 85's and almost no low levels. That, combined with the severe laziness of those players drives the price of low drops up since no one can be fucked to go into a low level area to farm them.

Thats how I understand it anyway.

Sounds like inflation to me. Between all the the gold farmers, auction sharks and level 85's with epic drops, I can't say I'm surprised.

It's one of the reasons why I stopped playing WoW. I couldn't devote as much time to the game as my friends, which make it much more difficult to amass enough wealth to keep up with inflation (to say nothing of amassing enough XP). After a while it started to feel like a chore. In my experience, it's generally a good idea to take a long break when a game starts to feel like a second job.

Not much of a WoW enthusiast. Never got the liking of MMO's. Anyhow, it sounds like it's a case of little supply, and a lot of demand. Probably inflation as well. idk, I think the "85 level" thing is one of the reasons why I never bothered to get the game. I don't see the fun in getting a high level, as levels aren't very representative of skill, more "how much life I don't have" levels. But yeah, inflation and almost no supply, as doing things is hard. Hope your ME3 ending binge goes well. Didn't get the game, and even I'm depressed by it :/

No body wants to grind mats for old content professions. Least of all pre-tbc stuff so they'll just buy it off the AH so you can get some good money for it.

Lazy people + inflation = high prices.

I started leveling an alt this week and every single piece of low level green crap gear is 25+ gold. Some of them are 1500+ gold if they look pretty for transmog. It's pretty hilarious.

If you want a real laugh, have a look at Goldthorn prices. An herb that is absurdly easy to farm for a L85 is 300 gold per stack on my server. I can probably net 10 stacks in an hour, without really trying.

This was a problem that was on the rise ever since they introduced the Isle of Quel'Danis back during Burning Crusade. Before then, gold actually meant something, and people didn't have absurd amounts of it.

But then the Isle came along. It gave all players access to a large number of easily farmable daily quests that could net you a few hundred gold per day, per character. When the Isle launched, I sometimes farmed it with all of my characters and walked off with around a thousand gold per day.

And it's been getting worse and worse since then.

I stopped playing WoW back in like September or October. At the time I stopped playing I had about 280k gold across all of my characters, even after purchasing BoE epics in an attempt to hasten the raid-readiness of my alts. Making money in the game is easy, or at least was easy at the time, as long as you had the patience necessary to do so (or found the right market to exploit).

This is one of the reasons I don't play MMOs. I cant stand a game that is plagued by major issues the devs could solve in one day. What is this obsession with forcing all economy to be player driven. If all the needed items were sold by NPC vendors, you would have a stable economy that never fluctuated, never crashed, and has 0 inflation.

It just seems like most video game players today, especially MMO gamers, are a bunch of Luddites who have an irrational fear/hatred of computer controlled characters.

cthulhuspawn82:
This is one of the reasons I don't play MMOs. I cant stand a game that is plagued by major issues the devs could solve in one day. What is this obsession with forcing all economy to be player driven. If all the needed items were sold by NPC vendors, you would have a stable economy that never fluctuated, never crashed, and has 0 inflation.

It just seems like most video game players today, especially MMO gamers, are a bunch of Luddites who have an irrational fear/hatred of computer controlled characters.

I highly doubt it has anything to do with a fear or hatred of NPCs. It usually seems to be because a lot of people actually like to take part in an economy, and like to acquire their fake wealth.

Frankly, it's really not even that big of an issue in WoW. It used to be a problem exclusive for newcomers, but Blizzard revamped the old world's quests and now a lot of the rewards are just as good (if not better) than the stuff you can buy in the auction house. It's more than enough to get you to the upper levels without having to pay a cent in the auction house. And once that newcomer hits the upper levels, they have access to the same cash-cow dailies as everyone else if they feel so inclined.

Tuesday Night Fever:
I highly doubt it has anything to do with a fear or hatred of NPCs. It usually seems to be because a lot of people actually like to take part in an economy, and like to acquire their fake wealth.

Something I never wrapped my head around when it came to people who play MMOs... Why partake in a fake economy on the Internet by spending hours doing quests in order to obtain gold (A.K.A having a job) - when there's a real economy in real life in which you generally need to have a job (A.K.A Doing quests in order to get gold).

To each their own, obviously, but I do wonder sometimes.

It makes sense, really. The gold isn't a finite amount - killing stuff always brings new gold to the market. It would be like if in normal life you had the normal economy but then you could also wave your hands[1] and money would magically appear. And that's it - quest givers will always have 10 gold to give you, after killing stuff will always end in more assets (in one form or another) and so on. So the money flow to the players, from player to player and just some are burned off, i.e., go to NPCs of some sort. Especially when you have a high number of max levels who don't have as many expenses as a player that needs to train and stuff.

[1] Let's assume that you'll have to wave your hands really vigorously and for a long time to put some sort of limit.

Stu35:
Something I never wrapped my head around when it came to people who play MMOs... Why partake in a fake economy on the Internet by spending hours doing quests in order to obtain gold (A.K.A having a job) - when there's a real economy in real life in which you generally need to have a job (A.K.A Doing quests in order to get gold).

To each their own, obviously, but I do wonder sometimes.

I'm generally inclined to agree with you. When I started out in WoW, I'd generally only farm for gold if there was something I actually wanted. Time to get my character's epic mount (which was fuckin' EXPENSIVE back in the day)? Farm up the amount needed and get it. Is there a BoE epic item I want? Figure out what the average going rate is for it, farm that much, pick it up when I can.

It wasn't until raids started dropping absurd amounts of BoE epic gear that people were willing to drop 15k+ gold on that I started amassing huge amounts of expendable income.

But there are people out there who amass Gold for no other reason than to have more than everyone else. I can't claim to understand those people's motivations beyond that it's apparently what they find fun in the game. It's their own little meta-game.

/shrug.

I collected non-combat pets (had most of them, too!), which serve no actual purpose in the game other than aesthetic, so it's not like I didn't have my own pointless little meta-games within WoW.

cthulhuspawn82:
This is one of the reasons I don't play MMOs. I cant stand a game that is plagued by major issues the devs could solve in one day. What is this obsession with forcing all economy to be player driven. If all the needed items were sold by NPC vendors, you would have a stable economy that never fluctuated, never crashed, and has 0 inflation.

It just seems like most video game players today, especially MMO gamers, are a bunch of Luddites who have an irrational fear/hatred of computer controlled characters.

That doesn't make sense. Even when all transactions go through an NPC the amount of currency in the economy will constantly increase, because it comes from farming enemies.

Ironically I have been ignoring that fact. I got back into it only with a freidn and I tend to sell shit at about the same price as I would get it at the store, only like 5 gold more. I get sales all the time.

Stu35:

Tuesday Night Fever:
I highly doubt it has anything to do with a fear or hatred of NPCs. It usually seems to be because a lot of people actually like to take part in an economy, and like to acquire their fake wealth.

Something I never wrapped my head around when it came to people who play MMOs... Why partake in a fake economy on the Internet by spending hours doing quests in order to obtain gold (A.K.A having a job) - when there's a real economy in real life in which you generally need to have a job (A.K.A Doing quests in order to get gold).

To each their own, obviously, but I do wonder sometimes.

Maybe because it wouldnt really be much of an MMO without player-driven economy?

Gold is pretty much worthless in the current day wow economy. It's only use is to buy riding skills, mats, mounts and the odd BoE epic that you might want and considering that an 85 can make several thousand gold in an hour I'm not surprised some people are willing to drop a couple of dozen on a stack of low level mats instead of farming it themselves.

Hell spread over 6 level 85's I have over 300k and I've not farmed for gold for even a minute.

Remember there are server differences in prices. Many servers have such inflation problems, others dont. Sometimes some weird guy puts up runecloth at 100g a stack, and lazy people buy it, so others see that and go "im gonna put about the same amount and undercut the guy slightly". Sometimes it isnt inflation, just people puting up weird prices.

10g would be too much, as you say, for silk cloth or some other low level crafting material(if you are at the level in which you are supposed to use it), but sometimes you just got good old fashion lazyness fueling the price hike. Also daily quests helped quite a bit with people getting gold, heck, you get 10-12 gold for most at 85, and can do 25 daily quests a day. This has been this way for a while now though, so I am guessing before this last session, you havent played in a while. Good luck in your questing, and remember, most auctioneers pray on other peoples lazyness.

pffh:
Gold is pretty much worthless in the current day wow economy. It's only use is to buy riding skills, mats, mounts and the odd BoE epic that you might want and considering that an 85 can make several thousand gold in an hour I'm not surprised some people are willing to drop a couple of dozen on a stack of low level mats instead of farming it themselves.

Hell spread over 6 level 85's I have over 300k and I've not farmed for gold for even a minute.

Its getting to the point where im questioning playing it further. I mean, yeah, I can probably get to level 85 in 2 weeks time - provided I purchase all the expansions I dont have - but is it really worth it? What do I do when I get there? Spend an eternity doing dungeons to raise my fucking equipment stats so a group of assholes will let me join them in raiding? (Although I guess most people on RP-PvE servers are bros, even though virtually no one actually role plays. And thank fuck for that.) I dunno man. Guess I will see when I get there.

Broderick:
Remember there are server differences in prices. Many servers have such inflation problems, others dont. Sometimes some weird guy puts up runecloth at 100g a stack, and lazy people buy it, so others see that and go "im gonna put about the same amount and undercut the guy slightly". Sometimes it isnt inflation, just people puting up weird prices.

10g would be too much, as you say, for silk cloth or some other low level crafting material, but sometimes you just got good old fashion lazyness fueling the price hike. Also daily quests helped quite a bit with people getting gold, heck, you get 10-12 gold for most at 85, and can do 25 daily quests a day. This has been this way for a while now though, so I am guessing before this last session, you havent played in a while. Good luck in your questing, and remember, most auctioneers pray on other peoples lazyness.

Gold is the least of my worries. Im level 28 and I have 10 gold, a mount and good gear (for my level). The game just keeps throwing more and more money at me. And once the game finally realizes that yes, I upgraded my account from starter to proper, I can put up those 15 stacks of cloth I have in the bank and make 250 gold or something.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

pffh:
Gold is pretty much worthless in the current day wow economy. It's only use is to buy riding skills, mats, mounts and the odd BoE epic that you might want and considering that an 85 can make several thousand gold in an hour I'm not surprised some people are willing to drop a couple of dozen on a stack of low level mats instead of farming it themselves.

Hell spread over 6 level 85's I have over 300k and I've not farmed for gold for even a minute.

Its getting to the point where im questioning playing it further. I mean, yeah, I can probably get to level 85 in 2 weeks time - provided I purchase all the expansions I dont have - but is it really worth it? What do I do when I get there? Spend an eternity doing dungeons to raise my fucking equipment stats so a group of assholes will let me join them in raiding? (Although I guess most people on RP-PvE servers are bros, even though virtually no one actually role plays. And thank fuck for that.) I dunno man. Guess I will see when I get there.

If that's seriously how you feel, just quit now because that pretty much sums up most MMOs these days.

Eh - gold rewards for various things has increased massivley with each expansion. When people have more gold prices go up in correspondence.

Case in point: In TBC by doing the bare minimum to earn what I needed for raiding supplies and repairs I never had more than 300g, and thats after buying all mounts and recipies ect.

Now in Cataclysm I hovver around 12.000 doing, again, the bare minimum. Again this is after having bought all mounts, recipies, heirlooms ect.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

pffh:
Gold is pretty much worthless in the current day wow economy. It's only use is to buy riding skills, mats, mounts and the odd BoE epic that you might want and considering that an 85 can make several thousand gold in an hour I'm not surprised some people are willing to drop a couple of dozen on a stack of low level mats instead of farming it themselves.

Hell spread over 6 level 85's I have over 300k and I've not farmed for gold for even a minute.

Its getting to the point where im questioning playing it further. I mean, yeah, I can probably get to level 85 in 2 weeks time - provided I purchase all the expansions I dont have - but is it really worth it? What do I do when I get there? Spend an eternity doing dungeons to raise my fucking equipment stats so a group of assholes will let me join them in raiding? (Although I guess most people on RP-PvE servers are bros, even though virtually no one actually role plays. And thank fuck for that.) I dunno man. Guess I will see when I get there.

Well it doesn't take an eternity anymore to gear up. You will be heroic ready shortly after hitting 85 and then depending on how much you play you will be "new heroics" ready in 1-2 days and "looking for raid" ready in 1-2 days after that.

This is due to the increased levelling speed. Back in Vanilla it took a bloody age to get to level 60 and the materials required to level tradeskills were set accordingly. But now that you level much quicker, the tradeskills like Medicine only level as they used to. Hence, people can often find themselves at endgame before they bother with tradeskills; you don't usually find enough materials through levelling (dungeon levelling makes this even more prevalent). Low level materials are thus in hot demand for players just reaching cap, who usually have quite a hefty wallet by this point.

Here's the problem, look at how much quests gave you in BC: 3-3.5g for an Isle of QD daily.

Fast forward to Cata: typical daily is 25g+

It's inflation based on the amount of gold being pumped into the economy by dailies and farming old raids (although I think they nerfed that...I solo'd Magtheridon last summer on my DK and got 120g for my troubles).

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Well, I shat bricks. One stack nets you a ridiculous 10 gold. What the fuck is going on? What happened? What did I miss? Did the world ending strategy that dragon employed consist of giving everyone a shit ton of gold coins? Did silk become a rarity? I cant wrap my head around it. 10 gold man. 10.

Oh no, you want to hear a tale of shocking price change? An old guildy sent me a scroll of resurrection. I hadn't played since Cata came out and when I left I was still familiar with the running price of raiding gems being 150-200g. Kind of expensive, but manageable for the 5k-7k gold my character usually hovered around. So I grit my teeth, went the last two levels to 85 in the first day or so of free time, and purchased two of the t12 pieces with the points I'd been given when they converted badges to JP. Time to buy some epic gems for those bitches right? Wrong.

Dead. Fucking. Wrong.

5,000 gold. 5,000 god damn gold for One epic gem. How much did I have? Only a "paltry" 10,000 gold.(yeah I thought I was pretty bad-ass for saving 10k gold. HA! Was I wrong) I mean seriously, what the fuck? The effort to make them hasn't changed since Wrath but what has changed apparently is the size of people's wallets. I mean ffs, the random heroic dungeons are paying out close to 90gold a run. Really it has gotten out of hand, and it's because quests and dailies are paying out absurd amounts of money.

Though I suppose the counter argument is that if everyone is making absurd amounts of money then bullshit like a single epic gem being 5,000 mother-fucking gold is really just a drop in the bucket to most people.

People are just too lazy to get the materials themselves and people are capitalizing. When people were actively grinding levels and levels were harder to come by, materials, such as cloth as you describe, had a low value because there was an over abundance of it. I for one go out and acquire all the materials I need personally. Fuck if I pay someone for a price the borders on extortion.

Thats inflation with a side of gold farmers.

Ive seen it in Runescape too, only it never became that bad before things started going into a depression.

cthulhuspawn82:
This is one of the reasons I don't play MMOs. I cant stand a game that is plagued by major issues the devs could solve in one day. What is this obsession with forcing all economy to be player driven. If all the needed items were sold by NPC vendors, you would have a stable economy that never fluctuated, never crashed, and has 0 inflation.

It just seems like most video game players today, especially MMO gamers, are a bunch of Luddites who have an irrational fear/hatred of computer controlled characters.

And you would lose a lot of subscribers. Playing the economy is FUN. Lots of fun, actually.

Secondly, it would be impossible to have a completely NPC-based economy in a game like WoW. The game is designed with a player-based economy in mind, and it works very well for the most part.

Its a good point and I can point you where it starts. Bindable items. Or what I like to think of as the MMO equvilent to a digital distribution market.

Bindable gear sells on a pricing scale equivalent to the stats of which it holds. When someone crafts a piece of gear they are going to price it to equivalent statted gear. However, that gear has diminished value because there is no ability to resell it once you are done with it. So what happens? it gets vendor trashed.

So, crafters have a perpetual workload and thus a perpetual need for materials. However the consumers are stuck in a locust like all consumption mode. So despite the overall server populations invariably decreasing, there is still an inflated demand for gear to be crafted because nothing can be resold once its worn. If you could sell your gear to other players, it would diminish the need for crafters as the market becomes saturated with goods that can be sold and resold, but it would also stabilize the economy and as such the need for materials because you decrease the number of crafters, decrease the need for materials and the cost for materials will remain plentiful enough to keep at a reasonable amount.

Look at the real world equivalent to this. Goods that are considered consumable such as food, fuel, etc are always the first to go up, whereas items that retain intrinsic resell value such as homes or vehicles take a much greater amount of time to shift upwards or downwards

So.. the problem is actually intentionally created. Its not just WoW. Given how the structure is identical in ToR you will eventually see the exact same thing. (prolly about the same time it started with WoW, right around the first expansion.)

KeyMaster45:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Well, I shat bricks. One stack nets you a ridiculous 10 gold. What the fuck is going on? What happened? What did I miss? Did the world ending strategy that dragon employed consist of giving everyone a shit ton of gold coins? Did silk become a rarity? I cant wrap my head around it. 10 gold man. 10.

Oh no, you want to hear a tale of shocking price change? An old guildy sent me a scroll of resurrection. I hadn't played since Cata came out and when I left I was still familiar with the running price of raiding gems being 150-200g. Kind of expensive, but manageable for the 5k-7k gold my character usually hovered around. So I grit my teeth, went the last two levels to 85 in the first day or so of free time, and purchased two of the t12 pieces with the points I'd been given when they converted badges to JP. Time to buy some epic gems for those bitches right? Wrong.

Dead. Fucking. Wrong.

5,000 gold. 5,000 god damn gold for One epic gem. How much did I have? Only a "paltry" 10,000 gold.(yeah I thought I was pretty bad-ass for saving 10k gold. HA! Was I wrong) I mean seriously, what the fuck? The effort to make them hasn't changed since Wrath but what has changed apparently is the size of people's wallets. I mean ffs, the random heroic dungeons are paying out close to 90gold a run. Really it has gotten out of hand, and it's because quests and dailies are paying out absurd amounts of money.

Though I suppose the counter argument is that if everyone is making absurd amounts of money then bullshit like a single epic gem being 5,000 mother-fucking gold is really just a drop in the bucket to most people.

Yeah, it just sucks if you return to your level 82 character that used to be rich to find he is now poor because everyone else made ton of money in the meantime. Thats the situation my friend found himself in.

The price of alot of stuff in game, even the really low end things is atleast partially relative to the average income of a level 85, since there's just so damn many of them.

By this point someone who doesnt have a max level character seems like a minority. Combine that with the fact that most of the low end cloth on the AH it used by high levels trying to rush first aid or tailoring and the cost makes alot more sense.

Typically someone within the appropriate level range just grinds cloth themselves, partially cus its easier since they are questing anyways, and partially because all the cloth on the AH costs so damn much.

..I guess that's a sort of catch 22.

Unless your referring to embersilk cloth, in which case that price is actually kind of low. Embersilk doesnt drop as much as most people would like it to, so getting a stack of 20 does take a little work. I mean hell, I can sell whiptail on my server for 1G each and get a sale within 5 minutes, and my farming route yields like 300 of those little bastards an hour, not even counting all the volatile life, which goes for 11G each, stuff's just worth alot of money these days xD.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
I mean, seriously. I remember back in the day, a piece of cloth would net you, what, 1 silver in the auction house? Maybe even less?

So a few days ago I started playing again. (Friend got me back into it, told me it helps stomaching ME3s ending. It does.) After hours of selling cloth to standard vendors, my friend told me to go look how much I can sell it for in the auction house.

Well, I shat bricks. One stack nets you a ridiculous 10 gold. What the fuck is going on? What happened? What did I miss? Did the world ending strategy that dragon employed consist of giving everyone a shit ton of gold coins? Did silk become a rarity? I cant wrap my head around it. 10 gold man. 10.

Erm, inflation and old content materials that you need to level, coupled with the fact gold's been easy to get since TBC, especially for those who play the AH. There's nothing even remotely new here.

Vrach:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
I mean, seriously. I remember back in the day, a piece of cloth would net you, what, 1 silver in the auction house? Maybe even less?

So a few days ago I started playing again. (Friend got me back into it, told me it helps stomaching ME3s ending. It does.) After hours of selling cloth to standard vendors, my friend told me to go look how much I can sell it for in the auction house.

Well, I shat bricks. One stack nets you a ridiculous 10 gold. What the fuck is going on? What happened? What did I miss? Did the world ending strategy that dragon employed consist of giving everyone a shit ton of gold coins? Did silk become a rarity? I cant wrap my head around it. 10 gold man. 10.

Erm, inflation and old content materials that you need to level, coupled with the fact gold's been easy to get since TBC, especially for those who play the AH. There's nothing even remotely new here.

Considering the last time I played WoW until 2 days ago it was what - somewhere around 2007-2008, its new to me.

If you think that's bad, wait until you see how much Cataclysm material is selling for. I auctioned off a stack of Elementium ore (Level 85 metal) for 350 gold, undercutting the other sellers by 150.

1 Stack. It took me all of 3 minutes to farm up 6 stacks. The biggest problem is everything gives you fuck-tons of gold now, so all the 85s have enormous amounts of disposable income.

I'm not exactly objecting that people are willing to pay shit-tons of cash for easy-to-farm materials (I have a lot of alts who need 310% flying), but it does get a bit ridiculous when I can charge vastly inflated prices and still get it sold within an hour of putting it up.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
I mean, seriously. I remember back in the day, a piece of cloth would net you, what, 1 silver in the auction house? Maybe even less?

So a few days ago I started playing again. (Friend got me back into it, told me it helps stomaching ME3s ending. It does.) After hours of selling cloth to standard vendors, my friend told me to go look how much I can sell it for in the auction house.

Well, I shat bricks. One stack nets you a ridiculous 10 gold. What the fuck is going on? What happened? What did I miss? Did the world ending strategy that dragon employed consist of giving everyone a shit ton of gold coins? Did silk become a rarity? I cant wrap my head around it. 10 gold man. 10.

You call that fucked up? You can make thousands by selling cold milk during winter holiday. Yup, the thing you can buy from a vendor. Sells for ~1-5g per 5 pieces. Not even a whole stack.

Edit: But the problem lies more in two parts;

1: Gold is worthless. In classic 1k gold was a load of gold you worked long for to get (or abused the AH and got it in few days without spending much time). Now you get it in 2 days from daily quests and stuff you find during those or you spend 1h in the AH.

2: Most people are lazy idiots. Cloth sells good because it is needed to push professions with twinks but people are way to lazy to farm it themselfs. It is actually less hassle to get 100g than 10 stacks of any cloth.

I abused both things during my last year and got every twink of mine a chopper and epic flying as soon as they hit the level to learn it. I even have some lvl 1 twinks on some servers which did nothing else but sell and buy stuff. No other chars. With 2 I got over 1k in a day, then got really lucky and got them over 10k in the next week. Now those were just "timesinks" when I was bored. Think about the load of gold I had on my main server where I had high level chars with maxed gathering professions.

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