Poll: ME3 - Aren't You Guys Rather Embarressed?

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I would like to start by saying I've no intention of upsetting anyone on these forums, nor am I criticising their oppinion. I'm genuinely wanting to understand the difference between what I see to be a similarity.

So I've noticed the gaming industry's come to a near complete stop surrounding the controversy of this ME3 ending, not that this is the first time a game has flooded the news and forums.

Throughout the years I've seen people pointing out the hypocracy or stupidity of politicians taking videogames out of context, parents raging video games are the fault for a multitude of social ills, people mis-enterpreting stories and symbolisms, with their actions far beyond logic, reason, and so forth. And then this happens.

A video game has an unsatisfactory ending, and it seems the entire gaming community cries in outrage. Petitions, hate against developers, filed complaints, talks about people never buying Bioware games again, people believing they've been robbed financially!

On the latest Jimquisition, he argues we should be proud of this - proud, that as gamers, we take the medium as seriously as film, television or books. That games contain the same level of artistic value. But isn't this more a reflection of the immaturity within our community, and that we shouldn't be taken any more seriously than the eccentric politicians we rebuke?

As he mentions, people were pretty upset about the ending to the Lost TV series. Or how George Lucas milked the Star Wars franchise for all its worth. But surely these aren't examples of the fans of the said medium showing sophistication, rather the latter, that in many ways people reacted pretty childish or overzealously?

Picture yourself as a non-gamer looking into this. Or even watching, from a distance, fans of a franchise you don't like making a fuss over a similar issue.

Imagine the final Twilight book ending on an unsatisfactory cliffhanger that had teenage girls worldwide go crazy. Would we respect them more for taking the same extreme actions than what's on display here? I suspect not. We'd probably be poking fun at them.

So my question is - what is the difference? Are people within the gaming community going too far? Or is this really a serious issue for the gaming community and industry?

Finally, I've decided to add a poll to see how many people, at least on these forums, really do care about this issue. As I'm not a fan of this franchise, I'm somewhat exhausted to see 80% of threads being solely of this one issue.

On a positive note, perhaps these reactions to endings might see companies interacting more proactively with fans. In the film industry, there are test screenings to see audience reactions to stories - should we see something similarly implemented in video games (I don't think play-testing counts as it's mainly for bug searches)?

you can either parrot other peoples statements as your own and make mass blanket generalizations to cover your points, but when you do both, dont expect anyone to take you seriously.

Understand that there are lots different types of people complaining about the endings, so are vocal and vociferous about it, some just feel cheated from a consumer perspective, others are completely fine with it just wished the ending had more closure.

Shit canning everyone into "THEY ALL JUST CRAZY FANS" makes you as dismissive and irrational as the most shit flinging fan.

I suggest you amend your OP Post if you want any replies that dont call you out on your statements.

No. The rage is justified, in my opinion. It all boils down to something very basic: people were told throughout the series they were getting X, and X was a major selling point, and they got Y instead.

Any consumer would rightly be miffed.

I thought it was being taken too far, before i finished the game.

Then when i experienced the ending myself, i felt the same rage and dissapointment that my colleagues feel.

It's definetly gone ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the ending(s) either, but what do you complain about? ME3 is an extremely good game, got the solid plot and character interactions from the first, while getting the characters, combat and gameplay from the second, it's basically the ultimate Mass Effect.

I mean, the ending is a big deal to a story, but you really can't force Bioware into making a new ending, you are certainly entitled to explain why the ending sucked, but Bioware may just as well ignore you.

Look, if you don't like the game, good for you. But please stop with the "false advertisement" crap, the world didn't end, it was just the ending to a videogame franchise that was kind of dissapointing.

No, Bioware didn't betray you, they just had a different vision of what the story needed than you had.

i played the game saw the ending. i didn't feel the pointless rage that everyone else and their dog is feeling. most of what i see is the game didn't have the ending they wanted so ragefest here we come

Yes, definitely. Most fans make too big a fuss over nothing. Other fans are entirely reasonable in their complains but it's like speaking and explaining calmly thing in a shouting tournament. Their voices are lost in the flood of shouts. I feel some gamers just hated ME3's ending because they wanted to hate ME3 for something.

CAPTCHA: case closed

Terramax:
snip

I'm not embarrassed, I'm quite pleased that for once, a group of people have stood up and said, "wait a minute, no, I won't accept this."

Is it getting out of hand? Maybe, but let me put it another way, if you don't want to talk about it, you don't have to. If you have no interest in Mass Effect in any way, shape or form then don't read a thread about it.

But look at it this way, give me somethng you love, a book, a film, a game. Give me something you've invested over 100 hours in, something you're emotionally invested in, then watch as I change it, so it's a shadow of it's former self.

Let me quote Mass Effect 3's assistant producer, Mike Gamble,

"How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that..."

Now then, when you have been built up to the end of a story with promises like this (and many others from Casey Hudson) and then receive the exact opposite, I feel you're entitled to complain and make your voice heard.

Just beat the game again a few minutes ago (got meh Insanity achievement >.>) and I have got to say, "This is a cause worth dying for."

Sorry, I'm not that dramatic, its just fun to quote the game to make your points for you :P

You know why this crybaby whining annoys me, because you know that infantile child's toy view most people have of our mediu

SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHY.

So thanks so very much for degrading my passtime because you never learned that things don't always go your way.

Who gives a shit what other people think? I don't and neither should you. I don't even know how noticeable this is outside the gaming community, but I'd gladly trade some temporary embarrassment for a permanent improved ending.

I'm pretty much at a point where I think screw other gamers! I like the ending, and even if some people don't they are acting completely ridiculous.

The concept of gathering experiences on game elements before release through some sort of bèta is worth looking into, I think. You needn't really change much in comparison to the bèta testing we have now.

As for the whole ending drama, I got sick of it already. I haven't bought the game yet, as I'm taking the most cost effective route on this one, buying the GotY with all the DLC included. I haven't even properly finished the original Mass Effect, so I'm in no hurry.

I'm not really surprised, the gaming community at large is characterized by whinin self-important people who always claim to have the moral high ground.

Thankfully that's not everyone. :)

Holy shit yes this has been taken too far.

Hey, back in 2005 we were promised that the Houston Astros would totally beat the White Sox in the World Series. Unfortunately they really fell apart in the final inning.

You know, I ought to file a complaint about that sometime.

I'm other because, while the ending is full of plot-holes and doesn't fit with the tone of the entire series, it's not worth fighting for. Good for you if you think Mass Effect is the best game series of all time but if this is Bioware's vision for the end then it's Bioware's decision to make it that way and we shouldn't change that.

I would change certain things, some things I wouldn't though, that's just me.

While I believe that people do have the right to speak their opinion on the matter, I'm just disappointed how a decent percentage of its community handled the entire thing. The entire thing quickly turned into little more than a whine fest, destroying any possibility of discussion. It also showed the immaturity of the community in many different ways (such as the tendency to dismiss anything that isn't directly seen in the ending).

Terramax:
A video game has an unsatisfactory ending, and it seems the entire gaming community cries in outrage.

bahumat42:
You know why this crybaby whining annoys me, because you know that infantile child's toy view most people have of our mediu

SHIT LIKE THIS IS WHY.

So thanks so very much for degrading my passtime because you never learned that things don't always go your way.

You guys need to understand the consumer has the RIGHT not to be lied to. Biwoare has countless actual quotes in the press saying the ending was NOT going to be exactly what they ended up having it be. These press releases were made 2 months before the game came out. There was no "changed their mind and decided not to" bullshit, they straight up lied to anyone reading press about their game. They made it a point that the end of this game was NOT going to be exactly what it is. The spoke negatively about ending the game the way they did.

Petitions, hate against developers, filed complaints, talks about people never buying Bioware games again, people believing they've been robbed financially!

Hmm, makes more sense now doesn't it?

Picture yourself as a non-gamer looking into this. Or even watching, from a distance, fans of a franchise you don't like making a fuss over a similar issue.

Well considering how many gamers, people in the industry, gaming websites, etc. refuse to see it as anything other then "oh they must be upset the ending wasn't a happy one". Try to understand that marketing for this game lied, and you will understand the outrage. You can go look up the many quotes from publications endorsing the game which are all over the internet and included in the videos explaining why fans are upset. If you haven't bothered to even look into the reason why the fans are upset then what are you doing trying to mediate the topic as if you have insight. I am not saying this to sound aggressive, but honestly the idea behind this thread is essentially blowing smoke.

Imagine the final Twilight book ending on an unsatisfactory cliffhanger that had teenage girls worldwide go crazy. Would we respect them more for taking the same extreme actions than what's on display here? I suspect not. We'd probably be poking fun at them.

If you would poke fun at them without finding out why, you'd be in the same situation. When controversy is going on, my first reaction is to find out what the core argument is behind both sides. Right now it is a "hipster movement" to point at any consumer base that takes issue with something and call them whiners. Just because it has a tendency to be true often doesn't mean its true every time.

So my question is - what is the difference? Are people within the gaming community going too far? Or is this really a serious issue for the gaming community and industry?

Hope that Bioware will deliver a free DLC ending. Otherwise, you are setting a precedent that it is ok to shove a game out the door before it is finished and then charge consumers for the ending. You can decide which of these two are the best case scenario:
1) Game gets released where the ending is completely randomized and not congruent with the rest of the story. It makes NO sense, just random crap thrown together with no clear structure to the story. Best guess is they ran out of time to wrap it up.
2) Game has no ending.

Then you can buy an proper ending.

Like you, I don't mean to ruffle feathers but people that plan to provide a solution to the issue should probably look into it more than just the industry's side of things. Right now they are saying "I don't get what the problem is" and many uninformed are following suit. Consumers are putting the problem for everyone to see out there loudly but no one is listening to their argument because they are too busy calling them whiners. People like Zeel on these forum isn't helping matters, though.

No, and the fact you (and others) feel that way boggles the mind. People complain about movies, television, books, music, and every other kind of media. Yet when it comes to games we are "entitled" and "childish." It is our right to complain when a product doesn't live up to expectations or even the advertisement. Nobody is forcing the writers to redo the ending just like nobody forced George Lucas to redo the prequels.

Even if nothing comes from all these complaints this becomes a lesson in what not to do in the future. Perhaps developers will avoid making such stupid decisions in the pursuit of "art" next time. If that comes to pass then every single piece of these complaints is valid.

Veldt Falsetto:
I'm other because, while the ending is full of plot-holes and doesn't fit with the tone of the entire series, it's not worth fighting for. Good for you if you think Mass Effect is the best game series of all time but if this is Bioware's vision for the end then it's Bioware's decision to make it that way and we shouldn't change that.

I would change certain things, some things I wouldn't though, that's just me.

When you actively state that you are making your game to "be more accessible to a wider demographic", you just threw your "artistic integrity" out the window. If you want to "make the game the way you see fit" then it is of no consequence the demographic. If you try to claim the artist's vision is to appeal to a wider demographic, considering how the demographic doesn't like it, you failed - unless you fix it. The "artistic integrity" claim doesn't work here. It's double talk. It's simply them trying to dodge responsibility.

The people who are cursing the name Bioware over the ending are a bit silly, but people like Angry Joe and many others who are making rational, well thought-out cases against it are proving to be far more mature than other fans who have felt the sting of...

Personally, I am in the "This ending sucks" Camp, but it's really manifested itself in a different way for me: I'm never supporting Bioware again. From the launch of Dragon Age 2 until now, there's been a mountain of evidence built that Bioware has been destroyed just like my beloved Pandemic Studios by EA, and I am therefore not supporting them after the end of Mass Effect 3's existence. I'll buy new DLC, but never another game.

I've taken a similar stance on consoles: Sony and Microsoft have both proven themselves unable to protect my personal information, so I'll never buy another console from them. I'll keep buying 360 games, but never another console.

Meh.

The FTC thing is out of control.
Challenging a Bioware developer to a katana duel is out of control.
Building a life size walking Harbinger model that blares his lines from ME2 every step it takes and using it to attack EA's corporate headquarters is out of control.

Using the internet to vent bile and turning communities into rivers of flame happens every day. Donating to Child's Play in rage is... Still just donating to Child's Play. The Escapist regularly been turning into an echo chamber upon new game release until everyone goes back to talking about how old games and Dwarf Fortress are better than our shiny new triple-A games.

Until I see Casey Hudson holding a naginata or my ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL! kickstarter gets funded, I find the reaction to the reaction more puzzling than the reaction itself. Only guess is that it seems like no one was out in front of the story and a tiny minority of review copies called any kind of attention to the ending at all. Since when do people take things we say on the internet seriously? Even saying "I'm not buying their DLC", or "their game", or "any of their games ever again", or "I am building a time machine to stop younger self from getting Knights of the Old Republic" is still just saying things on the internet.

I haven't even said those things. I'll still pick up ME3 eventually and maybe even the DLC. When Dead Space 3 comes out, I'll probably buy that too. If Bioware makes a new game I'm interested in, eventually yeah that too. I knew KOTOR2's ending was going to fall apart on me before hand. And yep, it surely did. Didn't really ruin the rest of the game since I knew it was coming though. Hilariously, my biggest problem with it other than being a pretty disjointed mess from a technical perspective was basically the same problem as ME3's lack of closure and explanation of what happened to your carefully assembled squad of emotional wreckage.

And finally, being an old school stereotype of an introverted gamer, I find it impossible to be personally embarrassed by just about anything done by a person who also happens to buy video games. Seriously, what? I've got my own problems to be embarrassed about, like my inability to identify with the wider community. I don't have time to be embarrassed over this. Even if it were totally wrong or inappropriate. Like if the entire audience of a movie were spilling their drinks and talking on their cell phones... In another state. I wouldn't be embarrassed about going to the same chain of movie theaters to see the same movie as them. I feel no social guilt for people I don't know making a mess somewhere only vaguely related to me.

As for if the media is watching: HI MOM!

It's completely absurd and disproportionate. I do understand people's rationales for not liking the endings, although I don't agree with everybody, but seriously?

You don't like the endings? You know what to do. Do what I do when I want endings.

STFU and play Chrono Trigger. In the middle of the Undersea Palace at the moment people!

I've seen worse. Last year we had an actual riot complete with random property damage, looting, and injury over the loss of the Stanly cup. As much as it might cost my Canadian citizenship to say it, I'll point out the absurdity: 4.2 million in damages over a fucking hockey game. I'll take internet whining and charitable fundraising any day over that.

That said, as much as I'd like this nerd rage focused on something of real importance, it's nice seeing people not be apathetic about something other than Han shooting first. I mention that to point out that all this isn't new and won't go away. Heck, the existance of DLC has probably worsened things as now, we can conceivably compalin our way to a different ending. For me, there's also a happy foreward thought behind it all: a message that while me make consider games art, that doesn't mean we are willing to let the writers run over us with some artistic idea rather than continuity, logic, advertised features and fan wishes.

Silly, probably. but from the villification of used game sales, abuses of day one (and other) DLC, online passes, and other ways we as gamers have been inconvienenced or made to feel like criminals, some kind of massive blowback was inedivable. The idustry has had some serious entitlement issues about what it can expect from us, I guess some blew back on what we expect as gamers in return.

There is a very, very, damn-fine line, and it was crossed. Hell it was lept over.

The rage is not only justifiable, its encouraged.

bioware outright stated no A,B or C endings, no bespoke endings where everyone gets the same ending.

what makes this different from other products like movies or books or from other games is that the mass effect series was always toted as your shepards personal story. you created it, your descisions created the story and the world

If video games want to be judged by the same standards as cinema, books and art, then it's creators should be able to accept the criticism and outrage when their product is unsatisfactory. If ME3 was a movie in a theater, I would have walked out during the end and demanded my money back. Since that isn't an option, I will take the next best step and let my displeasure be known where ever it is applicable.

Sadly my opinion is based solely on me unable to play ME3 yet (no money ATM) but I do plan on buying the game soon and I think people have gone on about it for a while now, Bioware has already made posts about the topic so it is time to move on.

I have never been so impressed with the gaming community. We aren't all gullible sheep after all!

I think it is entirely justified. Consumers were lied to about the product, simple as that. That amounts to at best false advertisement, and at worst downright fraud. The fact that the ending (imo) was completely terrible only makes this worse! Sure some people take it too far, but better too far than not far enough. As has been said already:

Silly, probably. but from the villification of used game sales, abuses of day one (and other) DLC, online passes, and other ways we as gamers have been inconvienenced or made to feel like criminals, some kind of massive blowback was inedivable. The idustry has had some serious entitlement issues about what it can expect from us, I guess some blew back on what we expect as gamers in return.

BASICALLY yes. While this is totally worth fighting for, there are a number of factions that go WAY too far.

The test audience did not like the original ending for Terminator 2 so Cameron shot a new ending and that's the one we got.

The entire last chapter of "A Clockwork Orange" was cut by American publishers because it was deemed inconsistent with the rest of the book. Pretty much everyone agrees and that's what Kubrick went with in the movie adaptation.

Sherlock Holmes died battling Professor Moriarty. Fans did not like that. Arthur Conan Doyle brought Holmes back.

Fappy:
Just beat the game again a few minutes ago (got meh Insanity achievement >.>) and I have got to say, "This is a cause worth dying for."

But it is a cause to help children.

I think the endings are massively, massively flawed and I would be supremely ecstatic if say the Indoctrination Theory panned out to be true or BioWare simply fixed/changed/whatevered the ending, but about $80,000 (and going) have been raised to help out Child's Play and you cannot deny that is awesome. If nothing else good comes from this whole thing, that will at least be enough of a beacon to prove the whole damn thing was worthwhile.

And if you're a cynic who thinks it's a petty measure to twist BioWare's arm and scoffs at it, please take the service elevator straight to hell.

OP, you are asking the right question on the WRONG website. You really think the people that frequent this site are going to say "Yes, it's out of control"? Not a shot against the users here, just an observation.

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