Modding single player Mass Effect 3 bans you from Origin Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 . . . 15 NEXT | |
The entirety of this "licensing business" is. The only way to make sure their licenses are legally enforceable in every case is to make it clear to the customer that he doesn't own the product before the customer purchases it, and present them with the license agreement. Again, before the purchase. But then, some people will say "Fuck that" and we can't have that now can we?
They're welcome to, but I think it would be unprecedented to accept the reasoning that someone agreed to a contract before even looking at it. I mean, unless such a notion gets laughed out, something's really wrong with the legal system. Common law may have a bit of a bigger problem with it than civil law of course... | |
Alrighty, so I'm confused. If I'm ''buying a license'' to play the game, does that mean the publisher still owns the disc and the box? If so, does that mean I can't damage said objects in any way, since it's not my property? | |
They technically do still own the disk and box, hell Morrowind's EULA even claimed that breaking the EULA would result in the box being taken away, but I don't think publishers care about the condition of the box/disk only if you have the ability to play the game or not. | |
The current hate target? EA have been the "big bad guy" for well over 10 years. Activision briefly got some flack a little while ago... OK. So, the main reasons why EA has power over bioware with this? DRM and policies with regard to pricing, distribution etc are the domain of the publisher. There's no reason for Biwoare to be involved. We've already established it would be stupid for them to have some 'protest', I don't understand why you think the developers have any influence here. EA have let other games get published both with and without mod support. Likewise they have published both with and without origin, steam, secuROM etc. In this case, it apparently would have taken more funding to get the game out in such a way that it could be modded without compromising their DRM, DLC or multiplayer interity (possibly all 3), EA decided not to allocate the funding and instead release the game without mod support. Look, your second response didn't really make sense, but I'm guessing you're young, angry and don't like getting called out when you say something that's wrong. Just take a few minutes, actually think about it for a second, and realise that it doesn't fucking matter. At all. When someone is condescending or patronizing on the internet, it's not really a personal attack on you. It's an attack on the idea you've presented.
Under common law the EULA is legally inadmissable because you're never presented it until after you've already bought the game (they can't make you agree to additional terms after a contract, in this case a sale, has been completed). I assume that there are probably countrys where they can apply it, but I don't think they've even really bothered trying in many places. | |
I posted proof against that claim already. Here it is again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glider_%28bot%29 In that case it was established that Blizzard owned the code to WoW not only on their servers, but also the client coding + local game data on your hard drive. Even the game code loaded into RAM.
I'd like to see some proof of those so-called facts. Because from what I understand, copyright extends to a work in its given state, and the right to change it from that state must be granted by the holder. | |
State your source. Even some distros of Linux requires you to accept a licensing agreement. After all, this is, oh, I dunno... STANDARD In the damn industry! If any of you knew anything at all about these mystical machines we use every bloody day, this discussion would be about fucking around with modders, and not "OH MAI GAWD! I DUNT OWN DAH SOFTWAER?!!!11"
Since you paid for the game disc, manual, box, ETC, it's yours. Use it as a frisbee if you want, however, you are also paying to license the software, and what you can do with the software is outlined in the EULA. If the EULA states to Don't fucking Decompile the software, then don't fucking decompile it. I'm kinda against this, even though, legally the Modders may be wrong. (I don't know the EULA for Origin games.) I'm a pretty massive Valve Fan though, and giving your community the ability to mod your game, even giving them tools and praise to do so is a big thing in my books, and is generally the right thing to do. Unless you got a MMO. Which the ME series is not. | |
What fat, balding, overprivileged, suit-wearing, psychopathic troglodyte came up with those bass ackwards rules? Does the same apply to books? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if it did, what with insanity apparently ruling the world. | |
For some reason I read this as mocking. THAT would be scary... CAPTCHA: cliff-hanger DUN-DUN-DUUUUUUN | |
Actually for the past several years now Activison and Ubisoft have dwarfed the hatred for EA, it is really only in the case of Bioware do people normally flip shit over EA anymore. CoD yearly releases, and map packs tat resell old maps, and Ubisofts always online DRM have drawn more ire from the gaming community over a longer time then anything Ea has done recently. Barring the whole ME3 thing which he haven't seen play out all the way yet, though I wouldn't be surprised that after its over people are still ragging on Activision and CoD more then EA. Beyond that Bioware could easily threaten Ea with leaving to get them to do the things they want. Bioware makes EA big amounts of cash and if Bioware legitimately threatened to leave for treating the fans like shit EA would have to respond or else loose a big name, it isn't like Bioware couldn't get another publisher. Activison and Ubisoft would love ot get thier hands on them Your constant assertion that there is no possible way for anyone at Bioware to do anything beyond what EA tells them, which is illogical to no end, to speaks volumes about how far you will go to hate on something. Also I don't see how you can even attempt assume that I am angry when I have been exceedingly calm during the course of this argument. I suggest you try to base your arguments on facts and logic and not on assumption.
i think it applies to E-Books, and I know movies and music both have similar,but not exactly the same licensing BS on them. | |
Jesus christ, it seems like a lot of the big names in the industry need a good hard slap upside the head. Almost every mod that was available for ME 1 and 2 improved the game. God damn it. | |
Almost every mod really isnt something to hold high when there was like 3 of them per game. Not allowing modding is BS, but ME's modding past isn't exactly.......... there. | |
Fixed the typo you failed to fix. HINT: It was the letter "D" after purchase. My pro consumerism is showing. | |
No offense, but I suggest you learn what a contract is. | |
I'm not sure why this is a shock to anyone anymore. It's been mentioned before that this can happen. I think it's happened with other games (Though honestly, I'm not using origin and don't give a crap). If you don't understand that this is something they reserve the right to do, you kind of deserve the ban you get.
Well, yes, that's the only reason anyone would ever mod a video game. | |
Same license, yes. But when the license is presented matters quite a lot. With a physical copy there's no way to prove that the user knew what the terms were BEFORE purchase (and since refunds won't happen for opened software...yeah, you probably see the problem there). This casts doubt on if the user would have agreed to the terms at that time, if they knew them. Companies claim the user can view the license agreement on their website, but the knowledge of that option is not guaranteed either with this form of transaction, so the element of doubt remains. It's a Contract of Adhesion at that point, and its terms are not guaranteed to be enforced. However, if the game were purchased on Origin directly, the service agreement you agreed to to use Origin not only already includes most of the general terms of service, but any additional terms to the license are shown before the exchange is made. As for distinguishing between the two: Well, the box copy has a unique code; that is essentially what you're paying for after all. From there, it's a trivial matter to determine how it was purchased. That's an important distinction, even if it's the same license. | |
I do, and EULAs are valid contracts, for now at least. Lets hope some crazy/psychotic SOB is willing to take on the entire industry in the near future and the court rules in his/her favor.
I do believe that companies should be expected to put a link to the EULA somewhere on the box in a similar way that Steam's EULA is given a link to go to on the box of most Steam required games. Still, the fact that software has a EULA is well known and one should be expected to look up a games EULA before buying it regardless if the box told them to or not. In the modern day of the internet it isn't unreasonable to expect people to do some research into the product they are buying. | |
hahahahaha... What in the hell could they have hoped to do with this? Who does this please? The gamers? NO! EA makes policies that hurt gamers, not help them. Customer is always right? Customers come first? NO! EA wants to sell you DLC and prevent gamers from making mods themselves. This has gone from me not buying Mass Effect 3 because I had no interest to me thinking about not buying any more EA products. I'm certainly not buying Sim City 5, shame because I actually wanted it, but I'll be stupid to believe Origin will do anything but hurt me. I will not support a company that doesn't view me as a customer as important, and right now all EA sees me as is dollar signs, as they have proven time and time again with each passing shit storm of a story. | |
that image made my day | |
That sounds pretty fucking stupid really. I hear about EA all the time on this forum, and all this bullshit just makes me glad I have had nothing to do with their games. | |
I agree, they are within their rights of being assholes. And if you continue to buy from them you are within your right of being his bitch. Curiosly enough I seldom if ever agree with you on perspective, but i must say that you are one of the few posters here that values facts over feelings. | |
Yes its your favorite neighbourhood conspiracy theorist here to say, "I told you so!" If you ever buy a game with an EA symbol on it. You've already made the worst mistake of your life. | |
While that was an egregiously stupid bit of legal finagling when it took place, (and a case that I think creates an extremely dangerous precedent) it applies to game code being actively accessed and transferred to and from the Blizzard servers. They do have claim to that. Also, it was in regards to a specific piece of code. That of the bot written by MDY. But any data on your local client not directly tied to their content servers is legally modifiable. So long as the modification does not directly alter or effect the content or services on their servers. Basically, what EA is doing is bullshit. I don't care what they claim in their EULA. This is exactly why I hate Always-On DRM so much and why I have zero interest in Diablo 3. | |
Na man, everyone knows I am just a troll. It just so happens that sometimes to troll people you have to use facts. It's one of those cosmic alignment things. It doesn't happen all the time but when it does.... it does. But I do agree with you on the "they are within their rights of being assholes and by buying from them you are withing your right to be their bitch" statement. | |
Well, you should probably pick up what a job is then, if you got contracts under your belt. I'm picking at this part.
Let's pretend i've got a similar situation at my workspace. The company I work for has rolled out a new program that I feel is not right for the customer. Let's take your example, and apply it, as your ideal good guy. I state that I refuse to use this new process that my new overlords have stated I am required to do and that it is not in the best interest if the customer. Where am I in a week? Handing my resume to Dave at superstore because I got sacked. Why? I signed a contract stating that in exchange for money, I am to do what my boss fucking tells me to do. Doesn't matter if I like it or not. No company would be retarded to setup that kind of relationship with a company they OWN. That's right, EA bought BW. BW works for EA, and when EA says "do this" Then BW "does this" and not "Does Something Else because they thought it was a better idea." Free will does not pay bills. Free will does not put food on your plate, and Free will will not work when you go for your 3rd screw-driver at the Toothy Moose Friday night. No, listening to your boss, and doing something, no matter how annoying and retarded it may be, generates a thing you'll acquire when your older called a Paycheque. Paycheques generate money, which you can use to Pay bills, put food on your plate, Money can even be used to pay for a cab-ride home and Money will be lost when you drunkenly buy Dungeon Defenders for you and 12 other people on Steam. I think I've gone well beyond my point, but you really needed to learn that. The top people at Bioware made a decision to agree that Bioware would run better under EA's wing, in exchange for better funding. The owners at Bioware has stated this to management, which in turn states this to the employees. Another thing you'll pick up on when your older is the Chain of Command, and that it doesn't just apply to the military. Note: Found a mistake after posting... Fix'd. | |
That was the entire pint I was making also, it was, and is, Bioware's choice to put themselves in the situation they are now. All of this "it is EA and EA only fault" BS isn't true, bioware made the choice. The funny thing is that in your attempt to invalidate my point you actually stated the very thing I was making a deal out of was true. Your attitude of "I work for them so all I can do is sit down and shut up" is defeatist at the highest levels. If Bioware really is that defeatist then they are wore off then people make them out to be now. | |
I liked Bioware when she was beautiful and quiet. Now she's got this thing I don't want to talk about. It's like Developer cancer. | |
Let's be honest here, you know...you just KNOW...someone's going to do it. Assuming they haven't already. Some people just love to hate on Steam. Even if it requires putting on the tin-foil hats and making stuff up. [edit] God, I'm really getting sick of the new Captcha. 90% of the time it's an ad being shoved in my face. This one in particular is kind of threatening. ~ "The all new Chevy Sonic! We've got you surrounded. Let's do this." o.0 | |
Steam has things it could improve, like fixing offline mode for a lot of people, and used game trading, and fixing auto-pdate so it stays off when you turn it off, but anyone who says it is as bad as Origin is silly. | |
NO! It's more akin to someone renting you a car with a stereo that only plays certain music, then objecting when you turn off the stereo and listen to music of your own (which may or may not be better) and maybe hanging some fuzzy dice from the mirror. But of course, it's not really akin to that at all because, and lets get this perfectly clear.... The idea that licensed software is in any way comparable to leasing or loaning a physical object is absurd. In most cases you can't even give a disc back if you wanted to, let alone be held responsible for keeping it in good condition. Digital distribution makes this idea even more laughable. I don't care if my copy of System Shock 2 is 'legally' still owned by EA, under no circumstances am I required to return a working copy of it or anything equivalent. The fact that I have more mods piled on that game than I have teeth shouldn't mean jack shit to anyone but me.
I live on Steam too, and almost every game I've played on it (including Bioshock), so far, has been improved by downloadable mods, edited configuration files, unofficial patches and intentionally vandalized files. Mass Effect 2, for example, is way less annoying now that I've downloaded the mod that replaces all the loading screens. Loading times have gone from 30+ seconds to 1 second. No artistic vision or anything defensible there. We're talking simple sloppy design that someone else fixed for them. I refuse to acknowledge anyone's right to tell me I can't do that. I have games that make me nauseous without FOV fixes, and plenty that don't have native widescreen support. | |
Yeah no. My statement refers to the present and the future.(not the past. I did not buy ME3) But the whole trying to correct my grammar thing was cute. Misguided but cute. | |
I wasn't saying that those games didn't have mods just that most people didn't expect to ever mod them. Also Bioshock had mods? | |
I actually agree. The offline mode could use some work, though turning off auto-updates on a game all but guarantees it'll work 100% of the time in offline mode. With a few exceptional cases, of course. The trading of used games is kind of a murky area, though. Valve could possibly do it with their own games, but doing so with 3rd party titles gets really complicated really fast. Still, you have to consider that trading a game, digitally, doesn't necessarily mean you're actually giving up your game. It's fairly easy to make a copy and store it locally. Since the files are already on your hard-drive. That said, with the success of the Steam Inventory and trade system, the possibility of trading "used" games may not be that far-fetched. | |
Well Gabe did make mention in a interview with Eurogamer back in august of last year that they were looking into game trade ins. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-25-valves-gabe-newell-interview?page=3 Gabe Newell: We need to hire an economist, because we keep bumping up into these issues. You're starting to look at weird issues like currency and inflation and productivity and asset values and liquidity of asset categories. We just wish we were smarter about this stuff. We're reading frantically. We're brushing up, and all we're doing is convincing ourselves that we're more stupid. Half the time people are saying, oh, well, illiquid assets inherently have a penalty, so this argues for trade-ability, that we're essentially becoming a Russian currency model in the 1970s. Everybody races off to try to read papers on the implications of that. We think we want to move in the direction where everything is an item of exchange. We just aren't totally sure how to do that right. We're sure there are economists out there who understand this really well. We feel like we're this third-world developing country. We've discovered rocks! And we've discovered sticks! And there's this other thing out there and we should move our economy in that direction. There must be somebody at the World Bank who can tell us what we ought to be doing. We just don't know what that is yet." It resets on Steam closing for a lot of people. | |
I'm not disagreeing with you, just casting my vote with the minority of people you know on Steam. I expect games to be moddable and modded, regardless of whether the devs or publishers meant to be. I don't know if Bioshock had downloadable mods, but I'm including file edits and stuff. Bioshock was virtually unplayable for me without manually fixing some mouse issues. | |
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Well what you believe is wrong (this isn't my opinion, this is a fact), the games you buy are bought and paid for, they are yours to do what you want with. Of course they place restrictions to make sure that you're not using your copy to give free copies to other people, or ruin the game for everyone else but that's not the same as renting.