I'm a bigger fan of western rpgs myself, just a preference of story narrative style.

TheVioletBandit:

NiPah:
Oh I love JRPGs, the Tales series, the Rune Factory series, anything by GUST and Atlus, if it's a JRPG on the PS3 or 360 I'll buy it.

I can't fault most people for disliking JRPGs, just like I can't fault people for disliking other series. I can even see why Yatzee uses them as the butt of some jokes, hell JRPGs make up some of my favorite Unskippables, but in the end I still love them just as much.

I do however get a little erked by the same people using the same old arguments against JRPGs, which leads me to write off any post using the the words "spiky haired angsty teenagers" to label all JRPGs.

Are there JRPGs that don't have any "spiky haired angsty teenagers"? < This isn't a snarky remark. I'm actually curious if there is or not.

Xenosaga, Hyperdimensional Neptunia, Altelier Rorona/Totori, Devil Summoner, Disgaea, La Pucelle: Tactics, Recettear, Dragon Quest 8, those are the ones I've played and can think off the top of my head. They all have the spiky hair thing going, but none of them have an angsty teenager. These days you're seeing a shift in most JRPGs to center around Moe character archtypes, but those are hardly advertised outside of the hardcore niche JRPG fans outside of Japan.

Here's some promotional art for three games NIS America just announced:

The classic angsty teenager character type is pretty much dead, you'll only see them pop up in 5 year old games getting brought over to the states. Hell even Square Enix is doing it (see FF13 X2's main character.

Not a big fan of them. The characters just aren't relatable to me and the general style of gameplay doesn't suit my needs. Love Tactics RPGs though, Tactics Ogre is one of my desert island games.

Some JRPGs are great like Chrono Trigger.

However most of them feel the same, and the characters are quite boring.

My favourite one ever is probably Crisis Core. I love that game.

I used to love JRPGs.
Every one of the Final Fantasies before 11, I loved (except for 9).
But then JRPGs became formulaic and cliched, and their mechanics became archaic or gimmicky.
Even acclaimed JRPGs, such as Persona 3, which had mind-blowingly good combat, was let down by its drawn out, cliched story, whose supposed twists were predictable.
I guess what I mean is that I love what JRPGs used to be, i.e. good stories and fun gameplay,
and despise what they've become (if someone used more than two fingers playing FF13, you're showing off)
That being said, I'm having a lot of fun playing Dark Souls, which is an Action JRPG.
Even though the story is nigh non-existant, the gameplay is so much fun and so engrossing that it doesn't matter as much since you play Dark souls for the gameplay and not the story.

EDIT:Captcha = words of wisdom. Huh. Looks like the captchas are sentient now.

JRPGs are what I've been playing since I was a kid and I prefer that play style over the western one. I like playing characters that feel alive to me. I don't mind being the angry little id/ delivery service whose because that is not what I play these games for. I like seeing the characters grow and evolve over time. I like seeing how their particular journey shapes and transforms them from what they were at the start to what they are at the end. I also like seeing how their interactions with the world shapes it for the better of worse.

I tend to dislike Western RPGs in general because I never get the sense that my choices in the game matter to the world. It seems like in most of them, what I do never seems to make any difference to anyone. This is something I noticed a lot more in Fantasy RPGs than in Science Fiction ones. Oblivion, Skyrim, Sacred 1, Sacred 2, and practically all of Bioware's games made me feel worthless, like I was doing next to nothing to change the outcome of the universe. It's all the same, I go into town, do everyone's bitch work then move onto the next town. When I come back to the town, everyone still act likes I've done nothing for them. I feel like a tool playing them and I really hate when games condescend me.

Fallout 3 and New Vegas gave me a different feeling because they make me feel like what I'm doing matters to the world.

The only JRPG I've played and liked is Lost Odyssey. Most of the others had annoying 12 year old characters and the rest had annoying adult characters. They all either had bad stories or annoying combat systems or were just annoying in general.

And just while people are talking about Japan/Anime, I watched the Futurama anime parody the other day and its awesome. I've only seen a few episodes of anime but it got all the things that are weird about it - the mental hair, the making weird noises to show emotions instead of just using facial expressions like an actual human, the using split screen and freeze frames instead of action scenes, the subtitles completely over simplifying what they are actually saying.

As Bob would say - JAPAN IS WEIRD.

Mostly. In most Jrpgs they tend to focus on the story and have turn based combat. I don't like there story's and I hate turn based combat. You might say it's a whole genre there is likely something in it you like. With might be true but that is like saying there might be an ice cream shop in the sewer, I guess but I am not going to go look.

At the risk of sounding cliche, some of my favorite games are JRPGs, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI (or 2 if you believe the label on the cartridge), and Earthbound are easily the best games in my SNES library. I'm even okay with the idea of turn based combat in theory since it lends itself to careful strategy.

But it seems like a lot of a lot of newer JRPGs emphasize style over substance. A while back a friend showed me FF10 to try to sell me on it but for the hour or two I played, at least half of it was gaudy cinematics.

This may be a stylistic thing but I'm definitely not a fan of the androgynous teenager character design, granted its no worse than the 'roided up slab of meat in say Gears of War but surely there's some middle ground to be had?

King of Asgaard:

That being said, I'm having a lot of fun playing Dark Souls, which is an Action JRPG.

Yeah, AJRPGs (lol) seem to do a pretty good job as a sub-sub-genre of remembering that gameplay should be deep/challenging. AWRPGs seem to fall into the trap of prioritizing the cinematic experience of combat vs. the gameplay experience of combat more than they should.

i love J-RPGs! i love the Japanese writing, characters and world design. J-RPGs are deciding factor when i buy new consoles.
Now i'm playing Tales of Graces F and it's so much better than any western game i played lately, notably skyrim.

No, I dont particularly like JRPGs. They are slaves to convention even more than Western games, and are symptomatic of the malaise in the Japanese game industry.

JRPs are content to be fan service rather than try to convert new gamers. And that way only leads to the death of a genre.

Oldschool 2D JRPGs: Play them all the time. The turn-based combat is annoyingly slow, but I grew up with it.

Newschool 3D JRPGs: Play em when I want more of a story & some eyecandy. The men are infinitely more attractive than in WRPGs, but the women are terribly annoying.

WRPGs: My default go-to games. Play them for well...gaming. Perfect for "I'm in the mood to hit things" therapy.

Alphavillain:
They are slaves to convention even more than Western games,

I wouldn't go quite that far haha. Haven't played that many WRPGs about running item shops, solving supernatural murder mysteries, or surviving the apocalypse using hacked demon-summoning computers.

Flailing Escapist:
I don't like what they've become, if that makes sense.

Definitely. And in my eyes, they have become stale. Unable to captive my imagination. What can I say, with age (and plenty of reading) come higher standards. So uhm Japan, I'm not a teen anymore...would you kindly make more mature JRPGs? Maybe something along the lines of Vagrant Story?

OP: Sure, tropes ARE tools. But tools can be mishandled, hurting the narrative as a consequence. There may be nothing wrong with the concept of JRPGs as such, but the actual execution/ performance can still be pretty fucked up.

I dont like to label all of one (sub) genre as good or bad because sweeping statements like these are usually used due to ignorance for example I would have to say I dont like sports games because I dont like sport really and it does nothing for me but I bet I havent played more than 10 sports games in my life which is a pathetically small amount, but I didnt like them so now I base all my knowledge of these games off of my own small experience and tar them all with the same brush which is a little stupid. The situation is unlikely to improve as im not going to play more of something I have disliked.

My ignorance on this carries over when someone mentions an awesome sports game I think what theres actually a decent one give me a break they havent changed at all its just the same crap year after year despite me having no grounding for such a statement.

In the past I would have put RPGS down as rubbish but I did keep trying them and I have enjoyed quite a number of them japanese and western but I have disliked quite a number from both sides as well. Whether a game is labeled as a JRPG or WRPG will not affect my buying decision I will just try and judge each game on its own I tend to find both have quite a variety of games but each has its own trappings as well and both continue to evolve and stay behind (they both have a lot of games each doing their own thing after all).

so yes I have enjoyed and continue to enjoy JRPGS I also continue to dislike them some I like some I dont simple as.

I prefer JRPG's to most WRPG's.

The only exception being the Elder Scrolls and Fallout games.

I like games that eat up hours of my life to get through. I really, really dislike games that take me 20 hours to finish.

Although I did enjoy the ME and DA series they are far too short for my liking. I managed to get through ME2 and ME3 in 35 hours played. That's 2 games gone through quicker than most other RPG's.

I don't hate them, but I feel kind of disappointed as of late - maybe I'm getting old and my expectations have reach unreasonable levels.

I feel they need to innovate their game mechanics more - I don't mind turn based; but I need it to be "interesting" - and get their story telling back up to a decent standard.

That said, WRPGs like Skyrim aren't my cup of tea either, so it's not really a case of JRPG vs WRPG.

The last RPG I had fun with was ... WoW. But even that has gotten old.

PS: I have considered getting Tales of Graces F, but why no Japanese voice track? WTH? Seriously, how hard can it be to include the Japanese voice track and English subtitles? From the trailer, the English dubbing is fucking horrible - not necessarily the VAs fault; but if the result suck, the results suck - and I have heard enough ear-bleed inducing dubbing from the 90s/00s to last me a lifetime, I really don't want to hear anymore.

double post somehow, stupid captcha, plz delete

Games are a great medium for story telling because you can have the player learn about your world through interaction. Many jrpgs stick to a formula of force feeding lore, characters, motives, events, and everything through monologing cutscenes that are too numerous and immersion breaking.

Turn based combat isn't a problem for me, there are pros and cons just the same as action combat. Actiony combat is more fun....WHEN EXECUTED CORRECTLY.

The art styles....I'm indifferent about. I'm no anime fan at all, and a lot of anime/manga/japanese games are just...for a lack of a better word, intolerable. Do all the males have to look like hipster scene kids? Some games have gorgeous art, but too many of them look the same and don't do enough new to make me want to pick their title over the sea of other jrpgs.

I think the stagnation of the genre's sameness just makes the games boring compared to other titles. And yes, they aren't derivative of Tolkien, but I would rather fight orcs than be another band of annoying half-dressed teens with superpowers that saves the world.

I don't play too many JRPG's but there are a few game in the genre that I really like. The Tales games are, for the most part, really good and actually are really fun to play. They play more like a Fighting game rather than an RPG. Vesperia would be my favorite, but I have yet to pick up Graces F. I liked the story in Abyss better, but Vesperia was much more polished and Abyss had some loading time issues. Besides, the way the characters in Vesperia played off each other was great, and while he does get a lot of good character development, Luke at the beginning of Tales of the Abyss just annoys the hell out of me. I also really liked The World Ends With You when I played it, though I haven't picked it up again in a very long time.

CrimsonBlaze:

370999:
No I quite like some JRPGs, In fact one of my favorite games of all times in a JRPG (Tales of Symphonia for anyone who cares)

I think part of the frustration with them is sometimes they don't really change the whole set up. The settings change but often the same character archetypes and plots are kept.

There is also the issue of them often lacking the ability of the player to have meaningful choice.

And I think some people just dislike the more outlandish style or settings.

As a somewhat minor point, sometimes the JRPG fandom can slip into the "glorious Nippon" mindset where the make JRPGs to be the sole bastion of good stories which can be infuriating.

I hear you, brother (for I, too, enjoyed Tales of Symphonia).

What makes JRPGs memorable is not so much the story or gameplay, but the characters. Whether some memorable JRPG characters deserve all their hype and popularity is completely subjective.

If I may be so bold I would suggest it's not just the characters, I mean they can be great, but rather how the characters can interact with each other. Take ToS, that game does a great job of not only showing how characters interact with the main character Lloyd, but how they interact with each other. Zelos and Sheena irritate each other but do have a genuine friendship buried underneath it, Regal looks at Genis' romantic ambitions towards Presea with a sense of mirth, Raine knows something is up with Kratos, etc.

It does a good job of making me feel like I'm actually with a group of friends, which quite a lot of western RPGs don't try to do.

DrVornoff:

NiPah:
Here's some promotional art for three games NIS America just announced:

Spoiler: Click to ViewPHA+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9pMzYucGhvdG9idWNrZXQuY29tL2FsYnVtcy9lMzgvTXJLaXR0aWVzL3dpdGNoaW1hZ2UxLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjxiciAvPjxpbWcgc3JjPSJodHRwOi8vaTM2LnBob3RvYnVja2V0LmNvbS9hbGJ1bXMvZTM4L01yS2l0dGllcy9tdWdlbnNvdWxzaW1hZ2UuanBnIiBhbHQ9ImltYWdlIi8+PGJyIC8+PGltZyBzcmM9Imh0dHA6Ly9pMzYucGhvdG9idWNrZXQuY29tL2FsYnVtcy9lMzgvTXJLaXR0aWVzL2xlZ2FzaXN0YWltYWdlLmpwZyIgYWx0PSJpbWFnZSIvPjwvcD4=

The classic angsty teenager character type is pretty much dead, you'll only see them pop up in 5 year old games getting brought over to the states. Hell even Square Enix is doing it (see FF13 X2's main character.

This unfortunately prompts a new question: Have any of those characters ever eaten or been out in the sun at all? The scrawny youth who is obviously still too young to buy booze is to Japan what the grizzled male with short brown hair is to the West.

Ok so no androgyny teens, but the characters I see are:

1. Teenage witch with tits, hat, and hair extremely out of proportion. Sexy fetish character
2. Cute 2-d loli girls with no defining differences (hair color is a common differentiating device in anime art...and its stupid)
3. Androngyny teens (wut?) and the boy is wearing a vest that my gay friend wouldn't ever wear because its that ridiculous. Why would anyone think someone would wear a vest that only is large enough to cover your nipples?

The bottom line about the whole "androngyny teens" thing is that some people just find the art design ridiculously silly for no apparent reason (besides the obvious fetish characters). Some may think its cool, but I think it looks like a tour bus crashed on its way to a fashion show. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

Oh, and 13-2's main characters are a meterosexual Jonas Brother and a submissive rape-bait girl, both japanese stereotypes I've seen numerous times before.

I don't dislike them.

I don't particularly like them either. I prefer my RPG to have a bit more character customization. I Do like the idea of well written self contained story that JRPGs offer, but there is a bit too much of a cultural gap for me to cross. There tends to be too much separation between gameplay and story and the art design really can get on my nerves.

The predication of really too young folks involved in heroic roles is just the icing on the cake. Don't these writers ever think kids should be kids? I am pretty much quits with menu based combat as well. That is a 25 year old gaming convention that really needs to be buried and forgotten.

Those are the big points, everything else too nitpickey to mention.

Like some, dislike quite a few others, there are a few that break the formula (usually those that mix up the combat) for me and just shine. Others, I can see why the stereotype came into being in the first place.

With all things, I will never write off a genre entirely, I will always give them a chance to surprise me.

Kingdom Hearts and Tales of Symphonia ranked very highly with me. (I think I might have a fetish for mashing buttons and getting beautiful sparkles in return though)

JRPGs will do some crazy stuff story or setting wise that I don't see WRPGs doing. Fighting Hitler and and his army of supersoldier Nazis and mechs using aspects of myself that manifest as mythological figures is just awesome.

Well Disgaea is cool!

As for JRPGs in general? I dunno, so far most that I played were tolerable at worst, so they can't be all that bad. I mean, stereotypes are present in both JRPGs and WRPGs.

J vs. W
15 year old kid vs. a grizzled veteran
Lots of unresolved sexual tension vs. lots of unresolved sexual tension
Story runs on drama/innuendo vs. story runs on contrived coincidences
Lots of level grinding vs. lots of mook zerg rushing
Obvious beef gates vs. Obvious locked doors and inexplicably destroyed bridges
Ragtag bunch of misfits for a party vs. ragtag bunch of misfits for a party

Stuff like that, both sides are guilty of stereotypes, and I've grown jaded enough to just accept the presence thereof, and only go "Wow, this one was awesome" when they are either downplayed, or overshadowed by what makes the game truly stand out (Aforementioned Disgaea where there's less drama and a lot more snark-to-snark combat for JRPGs - it also has prinnies, dood! - PS: T with a completely different protagonist and story type for WRPGs, for example)

Don Savik:
Games are a great medium for story telling because you can have the player learn about your world through interaction.

Really, this is something that both WRPG and JRPG devs need to understand. There are some good examples of both (in JRPGs: I like how Shiren and Recettear tell stories through mechanics, and Atlus and From Software are really good at teaching you about their worlds in a natural way) but there are also a lot of bad examples (Bioware and Squeenix, I'm looking at you.)

370999:

If I may be so bold I would suggest it's not just the characters, I mean they can be great, but rather how the characters can interact with each other. Take ToS, that game does a great job of not only showing how characters interact with the main character Lloyd, but how they interact with each other. Zelos and Sheena irritate each other but do have a genuine friendship buried underneath it, Regal looks at Genis' romantic ambitions towards Presea with a sense of mirth, Raine knows something is up with Kratos, etc.

Also this.

It depends.

I'm an odd bird in that I play JRPGs pretty much purely for the combat systems, since the genre is much more diverse in that record than...anything, really.

All I need is a good combat system, and the story that's good enough to at least hold my attention, and I'm set.

So, FF13 and FF13-2 are pretty damn good in my eyes because I find the combat brilliant, but I know better than to suggest them to the more "classic" RPG player.

Now, NIS America just manages to put out horribly localized games that usually have combat systems that I feel are atrocious, while also having really boring plots. And Atlus...Well, let's just say I'm not a big Persona fan. Or SMT fan in general. It's the modern Japanese setting that makes me dislike them, honestly.

As for the Tales series, the only one I really enjoyed was Vesperia. I just got rid of Graces F after hating it. The combat was good but the story was too bad and generic for me to put up with it just to get to the combat.

I don't like most Japanese games in general. Can't say why really..

I like a few, Golden Sun, Xenosaga, Tales series, and some of the Final Fantasy games, but those are an exception to the rule. Usually it's the story and characters that bother me, they are either too weird, too fantastic, too cookie cutter and cliched, or just impossible for me to like.

And also (and this is the main thing putting me off from playing more JRPGs), the same plot twists and themes used over and over get really old. "But he was just a pawn for the REAL bad guy" or "She/he has amnesia that will conveniently be cured in an emotional epiphany at an ideal plot point" or perhaps "man/woman who keeps their face hidden and is really really powerful turns out to be your long lost father/brother/sister/friend/lover/etc."

I dislike the vast majority of JRPGs because I don't like the art-style, I hate the combat style when it feels incredibly stupid, and the characters are usually extremely unlikable. Yeah, this basically describes Final Fantasy from my point of view, but also many other similar JRPGs. The ones that are good are the ones that solve these issues. Pokemon is a good example of making the combat fun, the Mother series has really good storytelling, and Paper Mario is the best JRPG of all time because it has interesting characters, a simple and enjoyable combat system, and a perfect story that always makes you want to push on.