Graphically updated classics and you

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After playing Halo CE Anniversary last Christmas, Pokemon Heart Gold in 2010 and the recent announcement of the Baldur's Gate Enhanced edition I've been thinking a lot lately about the topic of graphically updating classic games. On the one hand I am reminded of a comment Yahtzee made in his review of the Chronicles of Riddick 360 title that included a graphically improved version of Butcher Bay, that simply re releasing stuff that was good in the past does nothing to push the medium forward.

However, whilst I see his point here with regard to that game in particular (a re release of a game which wasn't all that old, still looked alright and whilst good wasn't quite in classic territory) I think in general they are a good thing, particularly with regard to games like the Baldur's Gate series which still play well and are fantastic experiences but now come with quite a formidable graphical barrier to gamers who weren't gaming when it first came out.

I got to thinking about what game I would particularly like to see get a shiny graphically updated re release and Morrowind instantly sprang to mind. Morrowind is my favourite game of all time and the things that made it great when it was first released are the things that still make it great now, the music, lore, architecture, landscapes and every other element of Morrowind's design that makes it so atmospheric, absorbing and memorable. However, graphically Morrowind has not aged well. I would love to see Bethesda breathe new life into this amazing game and perhaps lift the graphical barrier which stopped so many gamers who started with Oblivion or Skyrim from enjoying it.

So my question here Escapist is two fold, firstly, to those with more technical and/ or industry know how than me, How difficult and expensive would it be to give Morrowind a graphical facelift, and perhaps more importantly would it make money? Secondly, what old games that you love do you think could benefit from a graphical update and very much compete game play wise with the modern competition?

Modders, man.

And I definitely think a graphical upgrade to a game could be commercially viable - after all, MW3 was the top-grossing game for a while.

Any classic game really. All of them. I would play the shit out of them. KOTOR. Oh yeah.

If you are going to do an updated rerelease, then you should strive to go beyond just updating the graphics. The Morrowind 2012 mod is only one of several mods that brings Morrowind up to date with teh rest of gaming. There are dozens of other mods that affect gameplay and completely overhaul the combat system as well.

That's why I really don't care about the Halo Anniversary Edition, since all it is is a shinier version of a game I already have. And if it offers nothing new apart from visuals, then why would I shell out another 40 bucks for a game I've already played?

Now, if it brought in elements from the later games, such as armor abilities, dual wielding, and new enemies to shake things up, that would be pretty cool. You would be playing the same game except with an updated version of it to make the extra purchase worth it.

Don't care for them personally . I don't care for shine as long as the game is good . And i will never buy a hd re-release if i already have the original copy , and to date all the hd collection that have been released i already own the originals . But i see why people like them . And it's nice for people that missed them in the past .

Kahunaburger:

Modders, man.

And I definitely think a graphical upgrade to a game could be commercially viable - after all, MW3 was the top-grossing game for a while.

Ah, I wondered how long before this argument came up, getting a huge mod pack like Morrowind 2011 set up takes a long time, especially if you're not particularly computer savvy (I prefer to use my console when possible just for the sake of simplicity). Also, I'm not a huge fan of player made content for games like Morrowind, I would rather see the original creators vision for a game world, not some fans. However, I see your point and it is a valuable one, the hardcore fans who want a graphically updated Morrowind probably already have one via mods.

kman123:
Any classic game really. All of them. I would play the shit out of them. KOTOR. Oh yeah.

Absolutely, I would also love this. If they where to update KOTOR's game play I think the game play of Dragon Age II would fit perfectly. But just a graphical overhaul for KOTOR would be amazing.

Soviet Heavy:
If you are going to do an updated rerelease, then you should strive to go beyond just updating the graphics. The Morrowind 2012 mod is only one of several mods that brings Morrowind up to date with teh rest of gaming. There are dozens of other mods that affect gameplay and completely overhaul the combat system as well.

That's why I really don't care about the Halo Anniversary Edition, since all it is is a shinier version of a game I already have. And if it offers nothing new apart from visuals, then why would I shell out another 40 bucks for a game I've already played?

Now, if it brought in elements from the later games, such as armor abilities, dual wielding, and new enemies to shake things up, that would be pretty cool. You would be playing the same game except with an updated version of it to make the extra purchase worth it.

I agree with you here, although I enjoyed CE Anniversary having traversed that campaign many times made it somewhat boring at times even with nicer graphics. Hell, if it where a choice between a graphically enhanced Morrowind and Morrowind with Skyrims visuals and gameplay then of course I would choose the second, I was simply thinking in terms of what is within the realms of possibility. However I certainly wouldn't be adverse to tweaking Morrowind's gameplay if a remake where to ever happen, the combat is almost as dated as the graphics.

Well since I managed to miss all the greats on the PS2 (DMC, MGS, Okami, Persona 4 etc etc) it's nice to just get them re-released on current gen consoles with a reduced price.

I still say the Persona 4 HD remake looks worse than the original somehow. The screenshots look a little bit too... Bright? Something just looks off about them.

Oh is DMC HD out yet? It did have an April release date I think. BRB checking Amazon

Kahunaburger:

Modders, man.

So... Pretty... Must... Reinstall... Morrowind...

Anyway, there was a project which was called, I think, Morroblivion which aimed to use Oblivion's engine to render Morrowind. I've seen some pretty, well, pretty results. They had all the landscape just no NPCs, last I know about it. And then Bethesda made the community shut down the project. I know they continued unofficially afterwards but I don't know if they did anything or if the project fell apart for one reason or another. Anyone have news?

And OT: Yes, I'd like to see some things ported to better graphics but it's not a necessity for me. However, if somebody makes a Might & Magic re-release with better graphics (maybe even more 3D-ish), I'll get a nerdgasm.

In other words, if they make this

Anything like this

(I couldn't actually find any in-game screenshots of castle Gryphonheart)

While googling for those pictures, I found a really interesting website and now I'm intrigued.

You don't need to ask whether or not such a remake would make money. Gaming isn't about the money.

DoPo:

Kahunaburger:

Modders, man.

So... Pretty... Must... Reinstall... Morrowind...

Anyway, there was a project which was called, I think, Morroblivion which aimed to use Oblivion's engine to render Morrowind. I've seen some pretty, well, pretty results. They had all the landscape just no NPCs, last I know about it. And then Bethesda made the community shut down the project. I know they continued unofficially afterwards but I don't know if they did anything or if the project fell apart for one reason or another. Anyone have news?

Apparently Bethesda had to nuke it, otherwise other people could have just "stolen" their dialog and shit (like MorrOblivion) without them having a valid case against it. Such a shame.

Anyway, its still nuked, and its probably never going to be finished.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

DoPo:

Anyway, there was a project which was called, I think, Morroblivion which aimed to use Oblivion's engine to render Morrowind. I've seen some pretty, well, pretty results. They had all the landscape just no NPCs, last I know about it. And then Bethesda made the community shut down the project. I know they continued unofficially afterwards but I don't know if they did anything or if the project fell apart for one reason or another. Anyone have news?

Apparently Bethesda had to nuke it, otherwise other people could have just "stolen" their dialog and shit (like MorrOblivion) without them having a valid case against it. Such a shame.

Anyway, its still nuked, and its probably never going to be finished.

Ah, yes I remember when they were shut down. Bethesda just went "Trololo, fuck you". OK, maybe they had a better reason but I found it pretty stupid. And I know the guys then continued working on it "underground", so to say. The project was just not near to finish last I played Oblivion, so I didn't keep up with the news.

And apparently it's now gone. Such a shame. I'd understand if Bethesda wanted to do it, or if they planned a HD release of Morrowind or something, but completely obligating (pun...wasn't intended but works) the community work was still pretty bad. I mean, in order to get MorrOblivion to work you still needed to have the two games, so it's not like they were giving free stuff to people who only had Oblivion.

That project could have really used Notch in there. He would have challenged Bethesda to a round of CS or something and we'd be playing Morrowind with really better graphics.

Karutomaru:
You don't need to ask whether or not such a remake would make money. Gaming isn't about the money.

Well actually it is about the money.

DoPo:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

DoPo:

Anyway, there was a project which was called, I think, Morroblivion which aimed to use Oblivion's engine to render Morrowind. I've seen some pretty, well, pretty results. They had all the landscape just no NPCs, last I know about it. And then Bethesda made the community shut down the project. I know they continued unofficially afterwards but I don't know if they did anything or if the project fell apart for one reason or another. Anyone have news?

Apparently Bethesda had to nuke it, otherwise other people could have just "stolen" their dialog and shit (like MorrOblivion) without them having a valid case against it. Such a shame.

Anyway, its still nuked, and its probably never going to be finished.

Ah, yes I remember when they were shut down. Bethesda just went "Trololo, fuck you". OK, maybe they had a better reason but I found it pretty stupid. And I know the guys then continued working on it "underground", so to say. The project was just not near to finish last I played Oblivion, so I didn't keep up with the news.

And apparently it's now gone. Such a shame. I'd understand if Bethesda wanted to do it, or if they planned a HD release of Morrowind or something, but completely obligating (pun...wasn't intended but works) the community work was still pretty bad. I mean, in order to get MorrOblivion to work you still needed to have the two games, so it's not like they were giving free stuff to people who only had Oblivion.

That project could have really used Notch in there. He would have challenged Bethesda to a round of CS or something and we'd be playing Morrowind with really better graphics.

Well, no. And I was perfectly fine with them taking it down.

Can you not understand it? If they had just let it slide I could have made a game called "MorroLind", copy pasted all quests, texts and dialog from Morrowind or Oblivion and released it for 5 bucks on Steam. It was perfectly reasonable of them to stop that from happening. Theres also a big difference between calling your game "Scrolls" and straight out copying something down to the last letter, even if you dont want money for it.

I am usually the last guy to defend Bethesda but to flame them for this... Very unreasonable.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Can you not understand it? If they had just let it slide I could have made a game called "MorroLind", copy pasted all quests, texts and dialog from Morrowind or Oblivion and released it for 5 bucks on Steam. It was perfectly reasonable of them to stop that from happening. Theres also a big difference between calling your game "Scrolls" and straight out copying something down to the last letter, even if you dont want money for it.

I am usually the last guy to defend Bethesda but to flame them for this... Very unreasonable.

Perhaps you are right. I'm just feeling butthurt I didn't get to see Vivec in Oblivion graphics plus graphic enhancement mods. Both the person and the city.

EDIT: Hey, 1k replies. Um, congratulations me, I suppose.

Not every game needs to push the medium forward.

SmashLovesTitanQuest:

DoPo:

Kahunaburger:

Modders, man.

So... Pretty... Must... Reinstall... Morrowind...

Anyway, there was a project which was called, I think, Morroblivion which aimed to use Oblivion's engine to render Morrowind. I've seen some pretty, well, pretty results. They had all the landscape just no NPCs, last I know about it. And then Bethesda made the community shut down the project. I know they continued unofficially afterwards but I don't know if they did anything or if the project fell apart for one reason or another. Anyone have news?

Apparently Bethesda had to nuke it, otherwise other people could have just "stolen" their dialog and shit (like MorrOblivion) without them having a valid case against it. Such a shame.

Anyway, its still nuked, and its probably never going to be finished.

Surely if they were just shielding themselves, the best thing to do would have been to give that project specific permission. It'd win points with the fans.

Unless we can be expecting an HD Morrowind release at some point, there is NO validation for crushing the project.

Zachary Amaranth:
Not every game needs to push the medium forward.

This. We need things that are willing to just chill while new stuff happens. Takes a while to work out the kinks in these things.

Plus, as with dodgy effects in old TV shows, bum graphics can ruin the immersion of a new player. These rereleases (done faithfully) can really help introduce someone to a legendary franchise.

I think its great. So many new gamers this generation. They deserve a chance to see what they were missing ^_^

Plus its convinient for me because i dont have to go hunting in the attic for older consoles/ setting it up on the tv.

plusplus sometimes the extra power makes the game what the devs wanted back in the day, but didnt have the technology to do so. Perfect dark XBLA is masterful and runs like better, like it was meant to.

DoPo:

SmashLovesTitanQuest:
Can you not understand it? If they had just let it slide I could have made a game called "MorroLind", copy pasted all quests, texts and dialog from Morrowind or Oblivion and released it for 5 bucks on Steam. It was perfectly reasonable of them to stop that from happening. Theres also a big difference between calling your game "Scrolls" and straight out copying something down to the last letter, even if you dont want money for it.

I am usually the last guy to defend Bethesda but to flame them for this... Very unreasonable.

Perhaps you are right. I'm just feeling butthurt I didn't get to see Vivec in Oblivion graphics plus graphic enhancement mods. Both the person and the city.

EDIT: Hey, 1k replies. Um, congratulations me, I suppose.

I know how you feel, I was pretty distraught when I first found out. Im over it now though.

And yeah, congratulations on 1k posts. May your social life suffer further ;)

I was actually really hoping the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Editions would be in full 3D. Exploring the Wilderness with it looking like Skyrim, going down into the Underdark, the full scale and glory of Amn would be awesome.

Sadly they're not doing this which is a bit of a bum :(

daveman247:
I think its great. So many new gamers this generation. They deserve a chance to see what they were missing ^_^

The chance is there right now. Take BG for instance. No need to wait for an 'enhanced edition' to play it. Besides, from what I've seen so far, it just looks like they added MOAR BLOOM. Looks like a quick cash grab to me.

kman123:
KOTOR. Oh yeah.

Indeed, give me a KOTOR with TOR's gameplay and graphics and I'd be all over that like Chobot on a PSP!

My interest in "remastered" games varies depending on the game.

There are some old titles which are very impractical to play on the PC nowadays because of how old they are - Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines is one of those which requires a lot of system tweaking before it's happy to run on Windows 7. Admittedly, that's why compatibility options exist, but with the older of those titles it's something I'd rather not have to do every time I want to sit and play for a while.

Graphics aren't something which tend to attract me to a game, anyway - so upgrading them is pretty moot, in my opinion. If a game is pretty, that's great, but no game can sell me on aesthetics alone. After all, I'm there to play, not to look at things! If I wanted to look at things, I'd go to an art gallery or to the cinema.

I know we got an HD remake of GOW and GOW2 but it would be nice to see them retextured to look as good as GOW3.

kman123:
Any classic game really. All of them. I would play the shit out of them. KOTOR. Oh yeah.

There is a patch for playing the PC version of KoTOR in 1080p resolution, it still looks quite good, I was just replaying it a few months ago. In many ways it looks better than TOR, except the mouths don't move.

The Wykydtron:
Well since I managed to miss all the greats on the PS2 (DMC, MGS, Okami, Persona 4 etc etc) it's nice to just get them re-released on current gen consoles with a reduced price.

I still say the Persona 4 HD remake looks worse than the original somehow. The screenshots look a little bit too... Bright? Something just looks off about them.

Oh is DMC HD out yet? It did have an April release date I think. BRB checking Amazon

It's not an HD remake but a vita port with a few extras, kind of like P3P. Also the DMC HD is out at Gamestop, capcom gave them the okay to release it a week early. Not like it matters that much now since the official date is tomorrow.

OT: I like HD remakes because it gives other people the chance to play the old games I loved even though they don't have an old console. I don't care that much about graphics and I already owned the originals to most of them. Though I did just spy news for Sengoku Basara and Zone of the Enders so I probably will start.

edit

Any game that has ever offered mod support has had people improve the graphics.

I guess for consoles, you're welcome to wait a couple of years and buy the game again, but, PC seems to have it better for graphics updates.

Karutomaru:
You don't need to ask whether or not such a remake would make money. Gaming isn't about the money.

Maybe not to gamers, but to those who make games it is.

As long as the update is graphics and UI I support rereleases. Very rarely are actual game changes good things, so it is best if they are just avoided. Graphics and UI, however, can make an old game much more playable.

Anthraxus:

daveman247:
I think its great. So many new gamers this generation. They deserve a chance to see what they were missing ^_^

The chance is there right now. Take BG for instance. No need to wait for an 'enhanced edition' to play it. Besides, from what I've seen so far, it just looks like they added MOAR BLOOM. Looks like a quick cash grab to me.

Well, making them work on a hd tv is a good start ^_^

Remind me what BG is :P

Not worth it. Usually you end up ruining the distinctive feel of the original that you loved.

I think most of the games that get an HD makeover, are there as a sort of fan appreciation dealy. The developer says "you know what, since players loved the original so much, we'll give this a re-skin so they can play it with newer graphics!" Halo CE was like this, and they even remastered the amazing music! Halo CE is a perfect HD remake because the game is the exact same game with no changes, just a graphics upgrade. Hell, you can even go back to old graphics instantly with a click of a button :D

Conker's Bad Fur Day HD remake for the 360, was an epic failure. They modified the gameplay, the campaign, the multiplayer, and it was overall really gross. Sure the graphics were much nicer, but I am not the kind of person that sees polygons and goes "EEEEEEWWWWWWW POLYGONSSSS". I still play my N64 from time to time :P

I don't think Morrowind would require much work to "pretty up". I still want them to just make an expansion to Skyrim that lets you explore Morrowind and Oblivion's worlds :D

As always when I see these threads: an online capable F-Zero X game that allows vehicle customization like it did in GX. An online competitive capable Advance Wars game that has the exact same gameplay (maybe a couple new units) with customizable COs, CO powers, unit skins, and much more intricate battle cinematics. A new Ogre Battle game with the same sort of gameplay, but much better graphics. TIME SPLITTERS 2 ON XBLIVE.

daveman247:

Anthraxus:

daveman247:
I think its great. So many new gamers this generation. They deserve a chance to see what they were missing ^_^

The chance is there right now. Take BG for instance. No need to wait for an 'enhanced edition' to play it. Besides, from what I've seen so far, it just looks like they added MOAR BLOOM. Looks like a quick cash grab to me.

Well, making them work on a hd tv is a good start ^_^

Remind me what BG is :P

Huh ? I play BG on a hd tv. It's called a high resolution mod. Ever heard of it ?

Anthraxus:

daveman247:

Anthraxus:
The chance is there right now. Take BG for instance. No need to wait for an 'enhanced edition' to play it. Besides, from what I've seen so far, it just looks like they added MOAR BLOOM. Looks like a quick cash grab to me.

Well, making them work on a hd tv is a good start ^_^

Remind me what BG is :P

Huh ? I play BG on a hd tv. It's called a high resolution mod. Ever heard of it ?

Well, sometimes high res mods work a little. But its never going to be as good as some developers doing it.

What does BG stand for? I actually dont know :P

EDIT: Do you mean baldurs gate? If so, d'oh.

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