are cheaper games worth it? (used games controversy)

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Westaway:

Vault101:

Valanthe:
Isnip.

I dont know if its the case with any other industry...but when EVERYONE involved seems to have to be screwing each other just to survive..you know somthings wrong

I guess they figure its our time to bend over

I'm sorry, amd I can't believe I'm bothering to ask this, but why do you use "..." Instead of commas?

Bad habit mabye,

when I think of pauses I guess "..." seems much more effective than commas in my mind, I know I over-do it though.

Karutomaru:
You say you don't pirate on the PC. But does that mean you don't pirate at ALL?

no...not PC games

or even music anymore

HardkorSB:

Vault101:
are games THAT unaffordable? no seriously...I dont think they are, and Im Australian

I was born and raised in Poland. .

yeah, I think I read somwhere that it was bad over there (forgot the country)

I was talking about Aus/US in terms of affordability...not Poland and other places where its that rediculous

Vault101:

3. dont patronise me....I know what its like to game on a shoestring budget

You seem to have forgotten and needed reminding.

4. oh..ok then..if you can remove DRM or play games without alt hat crap then fine..but I doubt you'll be able to do that forever...or at least your options may get limited (doest matter if you care or not its all there in the fine print)

As long as websites like TPB exist I will be able to game on my rules. If they do somehow manage to shut the crackers down then I simply won't buy games that have absurd DRM. It's not my loss. I'm already doing that with the Assassin's Creed series.

TestECull:

Vault101:

3. dont patronise me....I know what its like to game on a shoestring budget

You seem to have forgotten and needed reminding.

.

how much should games cost? they arnt cheap to make

Vault101:

TestECull:

Vault101:

3. dont patronise me....I know what its like to game on a shoestring budget

You seem to have forgotten and needed reminding.

.

b
how much should games cost? they arnt cheap to make

I'd say something more in line with what a DVD costs, off hand. $20-30 million for an average AAA game may sound like a lot, but that's before you realize that $100 million is on the low end for a blockbuster Hollywood movie. They may not be cheap to make, but they aren't $60 a copy expensive, either.

Owyn_Merrilin:

I'd say something more in line with what a DVD costs, off hand. $20-30 million for an average AAA game may sound like a lot, but that's before you realize that $100 million is on the low end for a blockbuster Hollywood movie. They may not be cheap to make, but they aren't $60 a copy expensive, either.

hmmm....

Im not sure that the differences are..but isnt a movies main mony making scource the box office/theeatrs? (well I guess less so thewase days) and also tv rights and such...

..games just have the retail part as their money makers

TestECull:

TehCookie:

And I believe I should get games for free! I'm sorry what point were you trying to make?

The point I'm trying to make is that I should be able to buy a game used a week after release. I can buy a car used a week after release, I can buy a microwave that way, even movie DVDs and music CDs. It's a right of ownership to be able to sell it off if you're done with it regardless of how long it takes to get done with it, and it's a right of ownership to be able to buy that second-hand version instead of a brand new one.

I agree and you can, for $55 (in America). That's still expensive. I was asking the guy what he would prefer when gaming on a budget, being able to buy the game earlier at a cheaper price but have no rights over it or wait and own his copy. Yes it would be nice if you could get a game for $15 after release and be able to resell it, but I'm trying to be reasonable. If I wasn't being reasonable I'd like to game for free.

TestECull:

Besides if you buy a car that's only a year old it's going to be more expensive than when it's five.

And it's still cheaper than a brand new one. Also, buy one that's been in a slight rear-ender fender bender. Airbags will most likely be deployed given how sensitive they tend to be, so you just cut those with a box cutter, put a new plastic fascia on it, replace the lights and grille, beat the snot out of the hood, and you're done. Nearly brand new car for about half the cost of a brand new one.

Did you stop reading my post halfway though?

TehCookie:
I'm pretty sure the newer and better shape it's in will cost more (but still cheaper than brand new).

Vault101:

Owyn_Merrilin:

I'd say something more in line with what a DVD costs, off hand. $20-30 million for an average AAA game may sound like a lot, but that's before you realize that $100 million is on the low end for a blockbuster Hollywood movie. They may not be cheap to make, but they aren't $60 a copy expensive, either.

hmmm....

Im not sure that the differences are..but isnt a movies main mony making scource the box office/theeatrs? (well I guess less so thewase days) and also tv rights and such...

..games just have the retail part as their money makers

The box office is the traditional moneymaker for movies, but that makes videogame prices look even more ridiculous; the absolute most I've ever heard of anyone being charged for a 3D ticket (the most expensive ticket type on the market) is $15, with an average being more like $11 or $12 for 3D. Most movies are able to turn a profit just on tickets, despite costing hundreds of millions before even factoring in costs that aren't directly connected to making the movie, such as advertising. There have (on rare occasion) been box office flops that eventually made up the difference through home video, but it's not like that makes them absolutely incomparable to games -- especially when you consider you can get a movie ticket, a blu-ray, and a DVD for about the cost of one videogame, and it's a rare individual that's going to buy all three.

Vault101:

TestECull:

Vault101:

3. dont patronise me....I know what its like to game on a shoestring budget

You seem to have forgotten and needed reminding.

.

how much should games cost? they arnt cheap to make

$50 should be the absolute cieling. This is an area reserved for things like Skyrim and Half Life 2: Episode 3. $40 is where most modern games with both SP and MP should launch at. $30 is where shit like BF3 and MW2, which are nothing more than tired-and-tested deathmatch shooters with a half-assed scripted Michael Bay movie tacked on the side, should be priced. Console and PC players should be equalized as well, I see no reason for console players to be paying $10 more than PC players solely because they're console players. I'm aware the hardware makers charge royalties on every game sold on their platform but the customer shouldn't be the one forced to eat that shit.

Valve has proved time and again that if you drop the prices you move more units, and ultimately, make more money. They found this out via Steam Sales. They dropped I believe L4D1 down to like 5 bucks and suddenly sales shot up 1400% or something crazy. They made more money during that sale than they did in the same time span before that sale, despite the price drop.

TestECull:
snip.

yeah, cheaper games are not a bad thing...and the current pricing systm (hell the whole friggen industry) isnt really the best thing right now

I just think that..why would publishers not charge you as much as they could? if they had all the control

and if games did get cheaper...whos says they wont start charging you to fill up your magazine?

Vault101:

TestECull:
snip.

I just think that..why would publishers not charge you as much as they could? if they had all the control

They will if we let them get that control. We, as gamers, need to grow a pair and tell the publishers to fuck off before that happens.

and if games did get cheaper...whos says they wont start charging you to fill up your magazine?

The PR shitstorm and the fact that nobody's going to buy it.

TestECull:

Vault101:

TestECull:
snip.

I just think that..why would publishers not charge you as much as they could? if they had all the control

They will if we let them get that control. We, as gamers, need to grow a pair and tell the publishers to fuck off before that happens.

and if games did get cheaper...whos says they wont start charging you to fill up your magazine?

The PR shitstorm and the fact that nobody's going to buy it.

1. thats my enitre point, they say the death of used games or physical copies is ok becaue it *might* make games cheaper..and as long as your games are a bit cheaper then having your options limited is A-OK..

2. hahaha.....don't ever assume, I bet they could lull people into buying anything if their only other option was not playng the game (I cant say Im any better really)

Vault101:

1. thats my enitre point, they say the death of used games or physical copies is ok becaue it *might* make games cheaper..and as long as your games are a bit cheaper then having your options limited is A-OK..

I'm actually fine with the demise of physical copies. I hate trying to keep track of CDs, and Steam is just made of pure awesome.

I do insist digital distrobution services start implementing ways to sell off unwanted games though. The transition to digital only should not come with additional restrictions.

2. hahaha.....don't ever assume, I bet they could lull people into buying anything if their only other option was not playng the game (I cant say Im any better really)

The only people stupid enough to buy a game like that are too young to have access to a credit card. Not even someone so devoted to MW3 that they have a shrine of the main protagonists in their closet would buy the next game if Activision put that sort of mechanic in.

Everyone has their breaking point. Everyone.

TestECull:

Vault101:

1. thats my enitre point, they say the death of used games or physical copies is ok becaue it *might* make games cheaper..and as long as your games are a bit cheaper then having your options limited is A-OK..

I'm actually fine with the demise of physical copies. I hate trying to keep track of CDs, and Steam is just made of pure awesome.

.

untill everyone has internet capable of that....I dont know
becaused fucked if Im going to wait 10 hours to play my game

Owyn_Merrilin:
The box office is the traditional moneymaker for movies, but that makes videogame prices look even more ridiculous; the absolute most I've ever heard of anyone being charged for a 3D ticket (the most expensive ticket type on the market) is $15, with an average being more like $11 or $12 for 3D. Most movies are able to turn a profit just on tickets, despite costing hundreds of millions before even factoring in costs that aren't directly connected to making the movie, such as advertising. There have (on rare occasion) been box office flops that eventually made up the difference through home video, but it's not like that makes them absolutely incomparable to games -- especially when you consider you can get a movie ticket, a blu-ray, and a DVD for about the cost of one videogame, and it's a rare individual that's going to buy all three.

A box office model would be an interesting option for games, you pay $12 and you can play the game for 2 hours but you have to share it with 100 other people, then if you really liked it you could keep paying for the 2 hour shared experience or wait a year to buy it.

Vault101:

untill everyone has internet capable of that....I dont know
becaused fucked if Im going to wait 10 hours to play my game

Impatience is a virtue possesed by many, yet required of very few.

I've got no problem waiting 12 hours for a game to download. I set it, go to bed, wake up, game's good to go.

TestECull:

Vault101:

untill everyone has internet capable of that....I dont know
becaused fucked if Im going to wait 10 hours to play my game

Impatience is a virtue possesed by many, yet required of very few.

I've got no problem waiting 12 hours for a game to download. I set it, go to bed, wake up, game's good to go.

NOPE

I dotn buy it...its bullshit..I should not have to do that

like I said "options" are a good thing

Vault101:

TestECull:

Vault101:

untill everyone has internet capable of that....I dont know
becaused fucked if Im going to wait 10 hours to play my game

Impatience is a virtue possesed by many, yet required of very few.

I've got no problem waiting 12 hours for a game to download. I set it, go to bed, wake up, game's good to go.

NOPE

I dotn buy it...its bullshit..I should not have to do that

like I said "options" are a good thing

I agree options are good but i think impatience if far more "bullshit" then patience. Also do you think having to go to stores is bullshit that the great and important you should not have to do?

Vault101:

anyway...personally, I am a good little comsumer

on PC I NEVER priate, I buy my games new at full retail price, I have no issue with this

As am I , I've never priated anything.

I'm also a proud comsumer yes sirreeeh.

So it's written Pirate and consumer, just wanted to pass that information on to you.

Darknacht:
[snip

I agree options are good but i think impatience if far more "bullshit" then patience. Also do you think having to go to stores is bullshit that the great and important you should not have to do? [quote/]

all Im saying is I should have the option to go to a store if I wish...if my internet isnt that great, if I enjoy going out, if I just prefer a physical copie for whatever reason

and if somone has the internet for it they should also be able to purchase somthing from thir own home

win win for everyone

(its beyond frustrating having to deal with downlaod times..not onyl time itself but if the downlaod stops then the whole thing ends up corrupted..on PSN anyway, and mabye you cant use the itnernet..or your godman playstation while you download..or it drops out..or you go over your cap)

Darknacht:

Owyn_Merrilin:
The box office is the traditional moneymaker for movies, but that makes videogame prices look even more ridiculous; the absolute most I've ever heard of anyone being charged for a 3D ticket (the most expensive ticket type on the market) is $15, with an average being more like $11 or $12 for 3D. Most movies are able to turn a profit just on tickets, despite costing hundreds of millions before even factoring in costs that aren't directly connected to making the movie, such as advertising. There have (on rare occasion) been box office flops that eventually made up the difference through home video, but it's not like that makes them absolutely incomparable to games -- especially when you consider you can get a movie ticket, a blu-ray, and a DVD for about the cost of one videogame, and it's a rare individual that's going to buy all three.

A box office model would be an interesting option for games, you pay $12 and you can play the game for 2 hours but you have to share it with 100 other people, then if you really liked it you could keep paying for the 2 hour shared experience or wait a year to buy it.

Be fair. If you really want to match up to the box office model, it would be $12 for one full playthrough of the campaign, $20-$25 a few months down the road for a copy you can play through as many times as you like. Honestly, I'd love that system.

Owyn_Merrilin:

Darknacht:

Owyn_Merrilin:
The box office is the traditional moneymaker for movies, but that makes videogame prices look even more ridiculous; the absolute most I've ever heard of anyone being charged for a 3D ticket (the most expensive ticket type on the market) is $15, with an average being more like $11 or $12 for 3D. Most movies are able to turn a profit just on tickets, despite costing hundreds of millions before even factoring in costs that aren't directly connected to making the movie, such as advertising. There have (on rare occasion) been box office flops that eventually made up the difference through home video, but it's not like that makes them absolutely incomparable to games -- especially when you consider you can get a movie ticket, a blu-ray, and a DVD for about the cost of one videogame, and it's a rare individual that's going to buy all three.

A box office model would be an interesting option for games, you pay $12 and you can play the game for 2 hours but you have to share it with 100 other people, then if you really liked it you could keep paying for the 2 hour shared experience or wait a year to buy it.

Be fair. If you really want to match up to the box office model, it would be $12 for one full playthrough of the campaign, $20-$25 a few months down the road for a copy you can play through as many times as you like. Honestly, I'd love that system.

Yes this would be true if a full play through took 2 hours and could be shared with an entire theater full of people.

Vault101:

Darknacht:
[snip

I agree options are good but i think impatience if far more "bullshit" then patience. Also do you think having to go to stores is bullshit that the great and important you should not have to do? [quote/]

all Im saying is I should have the option to go to a store if I wish...if my internet isnt that great, if I enjoy going out, if I just prefer a physical copie for whatever reason

and if somone has the internet for it they should also be able to purchase somthing from thir own home

win win for everyone

(its beyond frustrating having to deal with downlaod times..not onyl time itself but if the downlaod stops then the whole thing ends up corrupted..on PSN anyway, and mabye you cant use the itnernet..or your godman playstation while you download..or it drops out..or you go over your cap)

You should have whatever options the company publishing the game wants you to have if people don't like what they do and don't buy the game then they wont to that again. Publishing physical copies of games is expensive and brick and mortar store take much more of the sale price than digital distribution companies do so it we can get better games for cheaper buy eliminating physical copies than that is a win win for everyone.

Darknacht:

Owyn_Merrilin:

Darknacht:
A box office model would be an interesting option for games, you pay $12 and you can play the game for 2 hours but you have to share it with 100 other people, then if you really liked it you could keep paying for the 2 hour shared experience or wait a year to buy it.

Be fair. If you really want to match up to the box office model, it would be $12 for one full playthrough of the campaign, $20-$25 a few months down the road for a copy you can play through as many times as you like. Honestly, I'd love that system.

Yes this would be true if a full play through took 2 hours and could be shared with an entire theater full of people.

Except movies aren't locked down to a 2 hour model; that's an average. "Feature length films" run anywhere from an hour to four hours, with one famous art film lasting something like 14 hours. The ticket price is not and never has been based on length.

Owyn_Merrilin:

Darknacht:

Owyn_Merrilin:

Be fair. If you really want to match up to the box office model, it would be $12 for one full playthrough of the campaign, $20-$25 a few months down the road for a copy you can play through as many times as you like. Honestly, I'd love that system.

Yes this would be true if a full play through took 2 hours and could be shared with an entire theater full of people.

Except movies aren't locked down to a 2 hour model; that's an average. "Feature length films" run anywhere from an hour to four hours, with one famous art film lasting something like 14 hours. The ticket price is not and never has been based on length.

OK, so the play through could be up to 4 hours art films don't count as they are not typical played in large theaters for a profit, so you could have a low budget art game that isn't worried about profit and would only be played all the way through by very few people be as long as you want. This actually could be kind of interesting you could have some sort of game that people show up in the theater play the game for a bit and then wander off and others would join in, like some public art MMO.

Darknacht:
snip.

internet wise we arnt up to that point yet

thankfully its all rumours at this point anyway

Vault101:

Darknacht:
snip.

Internet wise we aren't up to that point yet

thankfully its all rumors at this point anyway

Look at all the game that require an Internet connection for their DRM, the publishers believe we will be their very soon.

Vault101:

TestECull:

Vault101:

untill everyone has internet capable of that....I dont know
becaused fucked if Im going to wait 10 hours to play my game

Impatience is a virtue possesed by many, yet required of very few.

I've got no problem waiting 12 hours for a game to download. I set it, go to bed, wake up, game's good to go.

NOPE

I dotn buy it...its bullshit..I should not have to do that

like I said "options" are a good thing

So impatient. So very very impatient. Instant gratification is part of why our entire society is in such a shambles, nevermind the game industry.

TestECull:

So impatient. So very very impatient. Instant gratification is part of why our entire society is in such a shambles, nevermind the game industry.

I disagree..I dont belive Im unreasonably inpatient

there is a line between "instant gratification" and "mind numbing inconcinience" I already get that tyring to buy anything digitally

I dont see why I should jump through a million hoops just to play a game

and somtimes its not just a case of "wait 12 hours" mabye suring that time i cant use my internet...ir it will drop out at some point leaving the download ruined (corrupted) or god knows what else

thankfully though we arnt at that point yet

daveman247:

Yes it is, because the publishers dont see a penny of a used game sale.

Nor do they have any reason to.

And the games market is totally different to other media, thats why.

It's ALWAYS different.

- Films make most of the money from its cinema release - games do not have these.

Their analogue is the release of the game. You can argue they lack a secondary revenue source (which is more analogoous to DVD sales), but not selling the product in two different formats does not mean they are in any way entitled to used game money.

- Music artists make most of its money from live shows - games do not have this.

Largely because harsh and oppressive record deals that can actually eat that same money they make at live shows. I'm not sure you want this to be your model.

- books have never had this problem because the price of making a book is reletively low.

Books have never had this problem because there is no problem. Books are also not as "relatively" low in terms of cost as people seem to like to argue, and that's a big freaking deal right now, actually. I have a vested interest in publishing.

Additionally, the games market has some of the lowest retail markups, and gaming has managed to be phenomenally profitable, especially in the last decade. They've created a market where they have basically all the money, and now they're asking for MORE. No other media has that kind of sweet deal.

Online passes are not the way to go because it makes borrowing a pain.

But why should you be allowed to borrow at all? Shouldn't you have to send some money to the company? You know, just what an online pass makes you do? If used games demand a cut, so should borrowed games. At least apply this crap fairly.

Zachary Amaranth:
snip

You do know i am FOR used games right? Read properly next time before jumping the gun.

Vault101:

and somtimes its not just a case of "wait 12 hours" mabye suring that time i cant use my internet...ir it will drop out at some point leaving the download ruined (corrupted) or god knows what else

I've been using Steam since 2007. In that time I've NEVER had my net screw up a download. It always resumes, and it never corrupts. Steam automatically redownloads the corrupted data upon reconnection. Oh, and trust me, my net conks out ALL THE TIME!

Maybe Origin corrupts data, idunno. But Steam? Never had a problem out of that, and I've been using it for yonks.

Well for consoles this new only thing is going to be awful because consoles just don't get the sales PC does, and probably never will given the costs they pay for the games to go to market+updates+dlc to be put on their respective markets. Wasn't it 60k to put out an update on XBA? And then Xbox collects 60 a year for what PC users get free via skype and steam?

I don't know, the more time goes on the narrower the reasons seem to get them. I love my PS2 and older but the PS3 (especially my 360 when I had it) just feels ...locked out and restrictive even with more features.

TestECull:

Vault101:

and somtimes its not just a case of "wait 12 hours" mabye suring that time i cant use my internet...ir it will drop out at some point leaving the download ruined (corrupted) or god knows what else

I've been using Steam since 2007. In that time I've NEVER had my net screw up a download. It always resumes, and it never corrupts. Steam automatically redownloads the corrupted data upon reconnection. Oh, and trust me, my net conks out ALL THE TIME!

Maybe Origin corrupts data, idunno. But Steam? Never had a problem out of that, and I've been using it for yonks.

im talking about PSN....so that probably answers your question right there

I cant buy things online (PSN has cards..so yeah)

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