EA defends itself against thousands of anti-gay letters

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Tuesday Night Fever:
This guy look like he's roleplaying to you?

Does it matter? Should we remove all negativity in videogames because somebody might potentially be choosing them literally?

Personally I think being able to make your Shepard homophobic would be interesting. I'd like to see how it would be handled.

Having more options to craft your Shepard can only be a good thing. Right now Shepard can only react in one of two ways - being gay or having him practically yell "I LIKE LADIEZ LOL" at the top of his voice. Would it have killed Bioware to put in some lines that could say no to Cortez without making Shepard sound like a complete twat?

omicron1:

Jitters Caffeine:

I was raised in the Church, so you really need to watch your mouth. I never said I had anything against any religion, you're just assuming I do because I think it's wrong to discriminate against people because they're different. And I'm not ASSUMING that discrimination against a group of people is Bigotry, I'm outright saying it. Based on the fact that the definition is intolerance based on personal prejudices towards another group of people. You're basically saying gay people shouldn't exist, and just because other bigots like to get together and talk about how much they hate a particular group of people doesn't make them right. It just makes them a higher concentration of hateful people.

My apologies for my ill-judged jab; it applies well to ~70% of Escapistgoers. Nonetheless, the principle remains the same - it is an attempt to saddle one's opposition with negative terminology and judicial bias, just as the terms "homophobe" and "bigot" are.

What I am saying is very simple: You can believe whatever you want, do whatever you want, as long as you don't make me believe it or respect your actions. I should not have to support your position, or refrain from stating mine, in the public sphere. I should not be barred from adopting children because they might grow up to believe as I do. I should not have to cater a wedding I disagree with. You may disagree with me, but you may not ban me from discourse or make my beliefs hate speech - not before proving that they are wrong. Until that point - while homosexuality is still undecided as to its very nature, whether it is intrinsic or extrinsic - attempting to enforce your view of the issue is tantamount to tyranny. That is all.

Using big words because you were proven wrong is a very old trick that doesn't work on people who can see desperation. I CAN say that you should not be allowed to spew bigoted hate speech about one group or another because it is inherently wrong. I'm saying discrimination against gay people for being gay IS homophobic AND bigotry because by definition, that's what it is. I will say say that people like the KKK, or Neo-Nazis, or the Westboro Baptist Church SHOULD NOT be allowed to do what they do in public.

This is not hypocrisy because bigots are not people who deserve to be defended.

I miss the days when the Right to Free Speech was more than a shield used by bigots as a kind of satanic verbal judo to defend their baseless hatreds of other people.

omicron1:

You are beginning from the invalid postulate that homosexuality is similar in classification to race or gender - that it is inborn, impossible to alter. As long as your arguments rest on postulates that are not accepted by both sides, no conversation may take place.

At this point, I have said my piece, outlined my positions. I'm not moving from them. Good day to y'all.

Actually I didn't mention that. You said you aren't a homophobe, I asked how you can justify saying that when you're saying gay couples don't deserve the same legal rights. Either you don't think gay people should be treated equally or you're letting your religion or whatever get in the way of what is a purely legal matter.

As for whether it's impossible to alter, try finding a gay person who's been in denial and ask him or her if they were happy during that time.

omicron1:

Kahunaburger:

omicron1:
It seems to me like the spirit of inclusiveness should extend to those of us who think Don't Ask Don't Tell was good policy, and would like to be able to tell Steve Cortez so. You know, rather than being forced to commiserate with him or ignore him completely. But hey, inclusiveness only works one way, right? It doesn't count if you're on the wrong side.

Would you expect a modern game with dialogue options to give you the option to oppose giving women the right to vote?

I expect any game dealing with issues under debate to serve both sides equally. For example: If there is a question dealing with religion, I should be able to respond either as a religious person or as an atheist. If there is a question dealing with gay marriage, I should be able to respond either for or against.

The thing is, it's like that for the heterosexual conversations as well, at least from my experience playing Mass Effect. Playing femshep, I accidentally hit on Kaidan just as much as I did on Traynor. And vice versa. Talk about serving both sides equally... I agree that it shouldn't be that way. I didn't want to come off as hitting on everyone just for trying to be nice. However, my "nice" comments DID come off equally slutty to whichever romancable crew member I was talking to.

You can't respond that way "for" or "against" when dealing with straight relationships. Why should it be different for gay ones?

GiantRaven:
Does it matter? Should we remove all negativity in videogames because somebody might potentially be choosing them literally?

This is a universe Bioware created in which homosexuality is both socially acceptable and common enough that people don't even find it surprising (in-universe). The universe is pre-defined as having stamped out that particular negativity because that's the way Bioware wanted it. Hell, one of the constant running themes of the entire series is to cast aside differences and work toward a common goal.

GiantRaven:
Having more options to craft your Shepard can only be a good thing.

Can only be a good thing according to... whom, exactly? Bioware? Gamers as a whole? Or you?

Because like it or not, Bioware made the game that they wanted to make, and clearly not all gamers want Shepard (who like it or not does have per-defined personalities regardless of Paragon or Renegade because video games aren't tabletop games and don't have that kind of open-ended characterization) to act like a neanderthal in the context of the universe.

Fr]anc[is:

dyre:
Haven't played ME3, but I remember DA2 seemed to have a ton of bisexual characters for some reason. Imo Bioware should make more exclusively gay or exclusively straight characters, because right now it feels like all my teammates want to fuck me no matter who I am...

To be fair it does mean more options for the same amount of work. IIRC there were 4 romancable characters open to everyone, as opposed to only 1 for each gender/orientation combo. I would rather have that way then have it be like the waste of time and effort Jacob from ME2. Because who the hell romanced Jacob.

[Raises hand]

Wait! I only did so for achievement grinding. I was disturbed enough by Hale's voice acting making it seem like my FemShep was essentially screaming "fuck me now!" every time her and Jacob talked. As far as I'm concerned, my FemShep's only had eyes for Ash... at least, until one Samantha Traynor - ahem - came around...

Don't get me wrong. I love Hale's work, but talking to Jacob was cringe-worthy.

omicron1:
It seems to me like the spirit of inclusiveness should extend to those of us who think Don't Ask Don't Tell was good policy, and would like to be able to tell Steve Cortez so. You know, rather than being forced to commiserate with him or ignore him completely. But hey, inclusiveness only works one way, right? It doesn't count if you're on the wrong side.

Im not sure what point your trying to make

all he ever says is "I had a husband" did that seriously freak you out that much?

I haven't played ME3, but why do people care about an option that they don't need to do? Basically... Shut up. Just shut up.

As a Floridian, let me say that the Florida Family Association shames us all.

They're the same people behind this shit:
http://floridafamily.org/full_article.php?article_no=140

And this shit:
http://floridafamily.org/full_article.php?article_no=144

And this shit:
http://floridafamily.org/full_article.php?article_no=108

And... so on
http://floridafamily.org/full_article.php?article_no=118

It's wonderful that an organization that essentially advocates for Christian doctrine to subvert secular law is currently fueling xenophobic, anti-Islamic fears about our state allowing "Sharia Law."

dyre:
Haven't played ME3, but I remember DA2 seemed to have a ton of bisexual characters for some reason. Imo Bioware should make more exclusively gay or exclusively straight characters, because right now it feels like all my teammates want to fuck me no matter who I am...

Is that a problem?

'Sides, what's wrong with bisexual people? They're far more fun. :3

Although I do see your point. I agree that more characters should be exclusively gay, seeing as we have far too many straight people about.[1]

GiantRaven:
Mass Effect 3 isn't at all like Dragon Age 2 in that regard. Of the new relationship options there is, I believe:

- 1 gay male
- 1 bisexual male
- 1 gay female
- 1 bisexual female

So sexuality is dependent on that character, rather than Shepard's gender.

Kinda, but the romances are heavily weighted on the male side.

As for the additions in Mass Effect 3, there is
- 1 gay male
- 1 bisexual female
- 1 gay female

Also, you can now romance either Ashley as [fem]Shep or Kaiden as [male]Shep.

Sourcey source.

[1] After responding to GiantRaven, I feel the need to change the footnoted sentence to "we need more exclusivly gay characters and straight male characters. [gay male]Shep and [straight fem]Shep need some love!

omicron1:
It seems to me like the spirit of inclusiveness should extend to those of us who think Don't Ask Don't Tell was good policy, and would like to be able to tell Steve Cortez so. You know, rather than being forced to commiserate with him or ignore him completely. But hey, inclusiveness only works one way, right? It doesn't count if you're on the wrong side.

Um... they do do that.

You get a point when talking to him, where you can say you're interested, or that you don't swing that way.

I believe the scene happened this way:

Set: Purgatory bar. Up on the dancefloor. Cortez is at the bar.

Cortez starts talking to you, then says "And besides, at least the view isn't bad". The camera then focuses on some guy dancing in the background.

You then have the options to say "What about me?" or "I prefer the other dancers". The first option causes you two to kiss and starts the romance. The second option then focuses on all the Asari dancers, and makes you guys just friends.

Adam Jensen:
In Dragon Age 2 Anders came on to Hawke for no apparent reason. If I had the option to choose Hawke's sexuality from the beginning that wouldn't have happened.

Bullshit and a half. I'm a straight male, but I've had gay guys hit on me. I smiled and told them that I'm straight politely, but I really took it as a compliment. Both sides think I'm hot! Hell yeah!

Things like that can ruin your playthrough. You're perusing one romantic interest, and at the same time you're developing another one that you didn't want without realizing it. It's just bad game design.

Ruin your playthrough maybe. When Anders made a pass at Hawke in my first playthrough, I took the dialog option that said, "I'm not saying I want you to stop..." Didn't take another flirty banter after that, Anders never brought it up again.

I almost made the same mistake in ME3. Luckily I read about romance options before playing. The game doesn't even tell you that you're perusing a relationship with Cortez until it's too late. I blame the lack of sexual preference choice and I blame the dialogue wheel and Paragon interrupt because they never say what you're actually gonna say or do.

Because god forbid an imaginary gay man come onto you. What is this world coming to?

omicron1:
I can be any Shepard I want, as long as she's liberal.

The fact that you assume having no problem with gay people is a liberal thing explains a lot.

GiantRaven:
Does it matter? Should we remove all negativity in videogames because somebody might potentially be choosing them literally?

Oh don't start with that nonsense.

OT: In the words of Lewis Black, how am I supposed to hate Goliath when David's an idiot?

omicron1:

Kahunaburger:

omicron1:

I expect any game dealing with issues under debate to serve both sides equally. For example: If there is a question dealing with religion, I should be able to respond either as a religious person or as an atheist. If there is a question dealing with gay marriage, I should be able to respond either for or against.

Even if it's anachronistic? If you were playing a dude in pseudo-medieval wherever, would you expect a "you know, I think our government is running up too much debt. Spending is out of control, and needs to be reigned in. Here's a copy of Atlas Shrugged." dialogue option?

Implicit in this answer is the assumption that the debate will/should be resolved in your favor - a problematic assumption at best. There is room to argue that in past/fantasy settings certain options are not reasonable to present, but as far as future settings are concerned, implicitly deciding hot-button topics one way or another is a good way to piss off a sizeable chunk of your fanbase.

Savagezion:

omicron1:

I expect any game dealing with issues under debate to serve both sides equally. For example: If there is a question dealing with religion, I should be able to respond either as a religious person or as an atheist. If there is a question dealing with gay marriage, I should be able to respond either for or against.

Isn't there an option to not have gay sex in the game? I am confused.

Yes - but there is not an option to disagree with the concept.

So, basically your problem is not the fact that gay issues are in the game, but that you can't debate with in game characters over your personal concepts? So it's not that the gay is there, but that you can't debate in game about it.

Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys bitch about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?

DrVornoff:
Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys bitch about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?

It's a classic double standard. I didn't play as a female Hawke, so I can't really say for how Isabella acted in that respect. When I was playing, I just wrote off Isabella, and Zeveran for that matter, as being at least being playfully flirtatious and at worst being portrayed as almost hyper-sexual. I did notice that the game seems to attribute the "friendly" or "nice" responses to your comrades as also being "flirtatious" in a lot of the personal dialogues. Thankfully though, Dragon Age 2 actually shows you whether your response is flirtatious or not. One of the few really positive aspects of the game.

Jitters Caffeine:
It's a classic double standard.

The question was rhetorical. I just wanted to put the "eww, gay!" people on the spot for a moment. At this point, everyone knows that guys who bitch that they can't push a button and make gay men go away are secretly beating their cocks raw to lesbian porn.

Is it really a big problem to some people? Steve said something about a husband and I just went "Oh dude's gay, I'll just make sure he knows where I'm at and we're cool." There's a good video on Youtube somewhere bemoaning the Anti-gay movement, I'll have to find it.

Darkong:
you know you're a world class douche when you're doing something which makes EA look like the good guys.

Not gonna read the rest of the chatter but can I put this quote on my facebook? It's gold.

How about... and bear with me for a second, no-one has sex at all? Problem solved. More time for character development that isn't sex-related, and shooting and space adventures abound. And then people who don't like gay sex AND people who don't like sex being in the video game in the first place can all be happy.

I mean, seriously. All of these arguments for or against it really twist my stomach in a knot. It makes me uncomfortable to read them. Everyone needs to stop being so negative to each other.

I played a male Shep stuff and the only gay stuff I saw was like, a single line of dialogue. I never even saw anything else. Is that really enough to drive people nuts?

Clive Howlitzer:
I played a male Shep stuff and the only gay stuff I saw was like, a single line of dialogue. I never even saw anything else. Is that really enough to drive people nuts?

There are a whole lot of really, really sexually insecure and bigoted people out there.

omicron1:

Kahunaburger:

omicron1:
It seems to me like the spirit of inclusiveness should extend to those of us who think Don't Ask Don't Tell was good policy, and would like to be able to tell Steve Cortez so. You know, rather than being forced to commiserate with him or ignore him completely. But hey, inclusiveness only works one way, right? It doesn't count if you're on the wrong side.

Would you expect a modern game with dialogue options to give you the option to oppose giving women the right to vote?

I expect any game dealing with issues under debate to serve both sides equally. For example: If there is a question dealing with religion, I should be able to respond either as a religious person or as an atheist. If there is a question dealing with gay marriage, I should be able to respond either for or against.

omicron1:

Jitters Caffeine:

I was raised in the Church, so you really need to watch your mouth. I never said I had anything against any religion, you're just assuming I do because I think it's wrong to discriminate against people because they're different. And I'm not ASSUMING that discrimination against a group of people is Bigotry, I'm outright saying it. Based on the fact that the definition is intolerance based on personal prejudices towards another group of people. You're basically saying gay people shouldn't exist, and just because other bigots like to get together and talk about how much they hate a particular group of people doesn't make them right. It just makes them a higher concentration of hateful people.

My apologies for my ill-judged jab; it applies well to ~70% of Escapistgoers. Nonetheless, the principle remains the same - it is an attempt to saddle one's opposition with negative terminology and judicial bias, just as the terms "homophobe" and "bigot" are.

What I am saying is very simple: You can believe whatever you want, do whatever you want, as long as you don't make me believe it or respect your actions. I should not have to support your position, or refrain from stating mine, in the public sphere. I should not be barred from adopting children because they might grow up to believe as I do. I should not have to cater a wedding I disagree with. You may disagree with me, but you may not ban me from discourse or make my beliefs hate speech - not before proving that they are wrong. Until that point - while homosexuality is still undecided as to its very nature, whether it is intrinsic or extrinsic - attempting to enforce your view of the issue is tantamount to tyranny. That is all.

Pearwood:

Right. They just want same-sex couples to never have the same legal rights married couples have. Not at all discriminatory. Argue your case all you want but don't bother trying to pretend it isn't rooted in homophobia, your argument is saying gay people don't deserve the same legal rights. If we were living in some kind of alternate universe where marriage was a purely religious ceremony and didn't confer any kind of legal status then we could discuss this properly without there being any homophobia or accusations of homophobia but that's not the case.

You are beginning from the invalid postulate that homosexuality is similar in classification to race or gender - that it is inborn, impossible to alter. As long as your arguments rest on postulates that are not accepted by both sides, no conversation may take place.

At this point, I have said my piece, outlined my positions. I'm not moving from them. Good day to y'all.

Translation: "Too many people in this forum disagree with me, so I'm going to leave before you can poke holes in my tightly held beliefs. Nomatter what evidence you provide, or how sensible your argument is, I will never admit that anyone else's opinion is reasonable or valid. But I have to make sure that I tell you the reason is that I just don't feel like talking about this anymore. If I just stop responding, you might think it's because you've silenced me with your logic. Goodbye *sticks fingers in ears* LALALALALALALA"

Of all the things to take issue with with EA they pick this? Seriously....it's two animated sprites rubbing similar junk together. I just...people...I can't even give word to how stupid this compliant is. Say what you want about EA at least their not anti-gay fucktards. I really hope that we breed this kinda stupid out of the human race in a few generations. It's a game....yes a very good Role Playing Game. But just because someone says. "Gee my Male Shep wants a piece of that Kaiden ass." Doesn't mean he or she is in turn gay. Unless they are...in which case...who gives a crap anyways? They don't like the gay scenes don't make shepard gay. Those close minded twits.

Considering gay romance in mass effect 3 and loads of other games with romances is completely optional, why are they complaining? for fucks sake, people still think there is a gay gene, these people need to learn to shut the fuck up and direct our voices towards something that matters.

Now I get the ending. Of course it doesn't make sense. The reapers were never the bad guys to begin with... it was a powerfully and erotically homosexual Shepard that was behind it all. ARRRRRRRRR! GAY PEOPLE!

Ok.

Why is it that we get quotes like

"It's important that companies know these protests represent a fringe interest,"

as it relates to thousands of people protesting the homosexual content, Yet homosexuality represents the interest of 2% And then dismiss this sort of protest as a form of an antiquated bygone ignorant era without ever addressing what is pissing people off about this in the grievous over representation of pro homosexuality desensitization present in these games by representing a disproportionate amount of chars as homosexual or having the capacity for homosexuality. Literally HALF of the playable chars in Dragon Age 2 can be homosexual. 5 out of 10. That does not even account for any NPCs of that persuasion. Thats not giving people options, that is forcing acceptance of an ideology on people when you realize half the char interaction content of the game is take up to what is an actual fringe interest because that means a major portion of your content is taken up out of accommodation.

Now, before you break your mouse from violently hitting that quote button to try to portray me as some sort of ignorant homophobe, know I am not against homosexuality, or it having representation in gaming. I dont have a problem with homosexuality in biowares games, cause really how many non M rated games does bioware put out?(I would say it would be arguably out of place in ToR with its T rating, except last I checked it is not actually IN ToR) But I call a spade a spade in this respect and inundating that much time/attention to accommodate homosexual fans is at incredibly disproportionate levels whereas it goes well beyond being tolerant, goes beyond accepting, it becomes encouraging. That is why people get upset. Its not that its there, its that there is entirely too much of it in biowares games that it does even if you try to ignore it become subject to constant reminders of its presence like an elephant in the room.

While the people launching these sorts of protests typically lack the eloquence needed to express resistance to ideology they disagree with, without falling to to the standby of Ikky or religious context. (Though all the eloquence in the world wont make a difference if people will automatically dismiss your reasoning as invalid just because they disagree with it) They fail to actually express what is bothering them which is the constant pushing this ideology on people.

Not saying this movement should get any sort of traction, but Bioware should not be dismissing this as some sort of hate when in actuality it is simply resistance to the massive over representation present. Since when did not approving of the things that someone else do become synonymous with hatred as if it was impossible to be against something and not hate that it exists. When did it Ok to be intolerant of intolerance and not viewed as hypocritical?

Anyway, You may now go ahead and start your quoting engines. Know my point of all this was simply to point out that there is a thread of validity to resistance to this, and automatically siding with acceptance and encouragement of homosexuality is not the same thing as being socially progressive. Ill go ahead and state, that for the devils advocate position I have taken I have said all I intend to say. I have expressed one subjective set of thoughts on the subject, and your totally free to express your own subjective thoughts on it. Just know I have nothing else to say on it and wont be addressing any quotes on the matter.

Dorian6:

Translation: "Too many people in this forum disagree with me, so I'm going to leave before you can poke holes in my tightly held beliefs. Nomatter what evidence you provide, or how sensible your argument is, I will never admit that anyone else's opinion is reasonable or valid. But I have to make sure that I tell you the reason is that I just don't feel like talking about this anymore. If I just stop responding, you might think it's because you've silenced me with your logic. Goodbye *sticks fingers in ears* LALALALALALALA"

It's the classic "Take my ball and go home" defense. People usually grow out of it when they outgrow their shortpants, but some people think that using big words will substitute actual talking points when it comes to discussion and debate and they sort of "revert" to the only arrow left in their childish quiver.

DrVornoff:
Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys bitch about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?

Personally, I disliked it when Anders hit on me because he was a two-dimensional, whiny little ass. I loved it when Zevran hit on me because he was charming and hilarious.

Edit: Oh, and I liked it when Isabella hit on me because she was just as entertaining as Zevran.

DrVornoff:
Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys bitch about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?

My Warden was straight....and I still had a threesome with Zevron and that chick at the Brothel. I mean Zevron's dialogue is just too damn good to pass up on. But yeah...the complaints from the guys seem to mostly be about Gay men. And not Lesbian women. "Why does cortez hit on me." what about Liara and Tryanor and Ash when your playing a female? "Their women they no count." ....*headdesk* Not that I think most people against Gay rights are that open minded to begin with with...cause their not.

I can only imagine the lives people must live if they are bored and petty enough to send a letter to a company about including the option to do something legal in a game.
I wish the people would focus on fixing themselves before complaining that everything isn't up to their standards.

Seanfall:

DrVornoff:
Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys bitch about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?

My Warden was straight....and I still had a threesome with Zevron and that chick at the Brothel. I mean Zevron's dialogue is just too damn good to pass up on. But yeah...the complaints from the guys seem to mostly be about Gay men. And not Lesbian women. "Why does cortez hit on me." what about Liara and Tryanor and Ash when your playing a female? "Their women they no count." ....*headdesk* Not that I think most people against Gay rights are that open minded to begin with with...cause their not.

Just because a woman has sex with another woman doesn't mean they're lesbians. Every girl is at least a little bit bisexual. Everyone knows that.

Isn't that what porn tells us?

viranimus:
Ok.

Why is it that we get quotes like

"It's important that companies know these protests represent a fringe interest,"

as it relates to thousands of people protesting the homosexual content, Yet homosexuality represents the interest of 2% And then dismiss this sort of protest as a form of an antiquated bygone ignorant era without ever addressing what is pissing people off about this in the grievous over representation of pro homosexuality desensitization present in these games by representing a disproportionate amount of chars as homosexual or having the capacity for homosexuality. Literally HALF of the playable chars in Dragon Age 2 can be homosexual. 5 out of 10. That does not even account for any NPCs of that persuasion. Thats not giving people options, that is forcing acceptance of an ideology on people when you realize half the char interaction content of the game is take up to what is an actual fringe interest because that means a major portion of your content is taken up out of accommodation.

Now, before you break your mouse from violently hitting that quote button to try to portray me as some sort of ignorant homophobe, know I am not against homosexuality, or it having representation in gaming. I dont have a problem with homosexuality in biowares games, cause really how many non M rated games does bioware put out?(I would say it would be arguably out of place in ToR with its T rating, except last I checked it is not actually IN ToR) But I call a spade a spade in this respect and inundating that much time/attention to accommodate homosexual fans is at incredibly disproportionate levels whereas it goes well beyond being tolerant, goes beyond accepting, it becomes encouraging. That is why people get upset. Its not that its there, its that there is entirely too much of it in biowares games that it does even if you try to ignore it become subject to constant reminders of its presence like an elephant in the room.

While the people launching these sorts of protests typically lack the eloquence needed to express resistance to ideology they disagree with, without falling to to the standby of Ikky or religious context. (Though all the eloquence in the world wont make a difference if people will automatically dismiss your reasoning as invalid just because they disagree with it) They fail to actually express what is bothering them which is the constant pushing this ideology on people.

Not saying this movement should get any sort of traction, but Bioware should not be dismissing this as some sort of hate when in actuality it is simply resistance to the massive over representation present. Since when did not approving of the things that someone else do become synonymous with hatred as if it was impossible to be against something and not hate that it exists. When did it Ok to be intolerant of intolerance and not viewed as hypocritical?

Anyway, You may now go ahead and start your quoting engines. Know my point of all this was simply to point out that there is a thread of validity to resistance to this, and automatically siding with acceptance and encouragement of homosexuality is not the same thing as being socially progressive. Ill go ahead and state, that for the devils advocate position I have taken I have said all I intend to say. I have expressed one subjective set of thoughts on the subject, and your totally free to express your own subjective thoughts on it. Just know I have nothing else to say on it and wont be addressing any quotes on the matter.

I think the 'fringe' comment was referring to anti-gay people. Not that Gay people are a majority, just that the people that support their rights are.

This is more of a Bioware problem, but I think it stems from the priorities of their writers. Even their best products have hit and miss parts and I do feel that some of the resources put into the gay characters can be diverted elsewhere.

I'm also a bit pissed that Kaiden didn't come out in ME3, considering how much of a bitch he came off as while telling Shep that he felt betrayed with the whole Serberus thing, it was yet another storytelling missed opportunity.

That and Harbinger. The way he talked about wanting Shep's body for examination... I know a crush when I see one.

Buretsu:

Seanfall:

DrVornoff:
Another thought that occurs to me. I hear a lot of guys bitch about how much they hate it when Zevran or Anders hits on you, but they never say anything about how sexually aggressive Isabella is. If you play a female, she hits on you out of the blue too. Yet the guys never complain about this. Hmm, I wonder why that is?

My Warden was straight....and I still had a threesome with Zevron and that chick at the Brothel. I mean Zevron's dialogue is just too damn good to pass up on. But yeah...the complaints from the guys seem to mostly be about Gay men. And not Lesbian women. "Why does cortez hit on me." what about Liara and Tryanor and Ash when your playing a female? "Their women they no count." ....*headdesk* Not that I think most people against Gay rights are that open minded to begin with with...cause their not.

Just because a woman has sex with another woman doesn't mean they're lesbians. Every girl is at least a little bit bisexual. Everyone knows that.

Isn't that what porn tells us?

And just cause a guy has sex with another guy doesn't mean he's gay. He could be bi too. You just never see the compliant about girl on girl in these things. Hell...in DA:O you can bang almost everyone if you try hard enough....hee hee...'hard enough'...hee hee 'try'. :D

You know, I have never once heard a single argument against homosexuality or gay marriage that wasn't either 1) derived from a religious point of view or 2) monumentally stupid.

I just hope game devs and the entertainment industry in general notice the number of people not pointlessly bitching about this.

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