There's not as much doom and gloom in Mass Effect 3's ending as some people think...

SPOILER WARNING!

I've noticed that some Mass Effect fans have criticized the ending of Mass Effect 3 because, since the Mass Relays are destroyed, everyone will be left wherever they are or, as with the fleets, just stranded on Earth.

But this is nonsense, not only do the various alien races have access to Faster than Light travel they also can manipulate Mass Effect fields. It seems to me that the most likely result is that everyone would work together to make new Mass Effect relays. After all the only limitation to the Faster than Light travel is availability of fuel and as we all know fuel can (infamously! :D) be mined from planets.

Therefore the destruction of the Mass Relays makes sense since it matches what the Geth's philosophy was about creating their own technology instead of relying on the technology of the "Old Machines."

Of course there is still the plot hole about why the Relays didn't supernova and destroy the respective systems. :D

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Captcha: sting like a bee

XD

Nihlus said something in ME1 how interstellar travel is impossible without Relays because they take so long apparently.

endtherapture:
Nihlus said something in ME1 how interstellar travel is impossible without Relays because they take so long apparently.

I'm sure that you could theoretically travel anywhere with enough fuel, if you could travel Faster than Light, the Mass Relays just made it even easier.

Moth_Monk:
I'm sure that you could theoretically travel anywhere with enough fuel/food/water/oxygen/random necessity X, none of which are available for 90% of these species in Sol.

I know! That's what makes it such a bummer.

I don't know much on the topic (I'm not a hardcore fan) but I do know that the FTL travel has two issues. One, as ships go FTL, they build up a massive eletrical charge that needs to be transferred on planetary bodies' magnetic fields, and two, FTL travel still takes awhile. I don't know the specifics, but going to Alpha Centauri takes something like 2 weeks, and I have no idea if the huhmens even bothered to colonize it.

I think someone around here did the math and concluded it would take somewhere under three decades for the Normandy (fastest ship in the galaxy as I recall) to travel from Sol to the furthest edge of the galaxy, and that's assuming they had the resources to travel in a straight line without stopping.

On the recreation of the Relays, there are some small implications that the Crucible plans may have contained hints about how the Relays work, but then no one says anything definitive on the subject, so it's just speculation.

DrWilhelm:
I think someone around here did the math and concluded it would take somewhere under three decades for the Normandy (fastest ship in the galaxy as I recall) to travel from Sol to the furthest edge of the galaxy, and that's assuming they had the resources to travel in a straight line without stopping.

On the recreation of the Relays, there are some small implications that the Crucible plans may have contained hints about how the Relays work, but then no one says anything definitive on the subject, so it's just speculation.

Standard FTL speed in Mass Effect is 12 ly/day. At that speed, it takes about 23 years to go from one "edge" of the galaxy to the other. However, because the Earth itself is nowhere near the edge of the galaxy, no point in the galaxy is more than 18 years' travel straight-line distance.

However it's worth noting that most species' homeworlds are fairly close to Earth - Tuchanka, Palaven, Sur'kesh, and Khar'shan, for example, are all within about four years' travel from Earth (roughly 18,000 ly). The only homeworld that's actually on the other side of the galaxy is Rannoch, which is about 16.5 years' travel from Earth (at a distance of roughly 72,000 ly).

Assuming the star clusters on the galaxy map are actually placed to scale - the Horsehead nebula, for example, is significantly farther away on the galaxy map than it is in real life. (The galaxy map places it roughly 15,000 ly from Earth, when in reality it's only 1500 ly away...)

No doubt the survivors are in for some serious problems in the near future. But the big point of the ending was that the whole elaborate plan of the Reapers has been shut down, the cycle is broken, and nobody to guide the races of the galaxy except themselves.

Eventually, after the hard times, they will rebuild. They'll increase in techology along a path that isn't secretly controlled by the Reapers. Maybe in 100 years or so make a Mass Relay network of their own.

It's about as happy an ending as it could possibly be without feeling like a lame "the Reapers are turning into ice cream!" ending.

Ok, I haven't actually commented on any of this Mass Effect stuff, but there is one thing that's been on my mind: People are taking this whole Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco way too far. So, you didn't like the endings... Big deal. There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with them. They're just boring, is all and completely uninspired. Nothing terribly wrong or evil. Just "meh".

Lugbzurg:
There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with them. They're just boring, is all and completely uninspired. Nothing terribly wrong or evil. Just "meh".

It's racist.
It contradicts the notion that one can make, and should make, a difference.

It is very much wrong.

Moth_Monk:
SPOILER WARNING!

I've noticed that some Mass Effect fans have criticized the ending of Mass Effect 3 because, since the Mass Relays are destroyed, everyone will be left wherever they are or, as with the fleets, just stranded on Earth.

But this is nonsense, not only do the various alien races have access to Faster than Light travel they also can manipulate Mass Effect fields. It seems to me that the most likely result is that everyone would work together to make new Mass Effect relays. After all the only limitation to the Faster than Light travel is availability of fuel and as we all know fuel can (infamously! :D) be mined from planets.

If they could have made Mass Effect relays so easily they would already have done so. The reapers have explained in the first Mass Effect that they built the relays for other civilisations to find (therefore following the path the reapers wanted). The reapers are technologically advanced far beyond anyones comprehension, nobody else could have built those relays.

Everyone is still stuck wherever they were when the mass effect relays were destroyed. Maybe they can travel a little bit into space but without the use of relays they would not be able to travel any reasonable distance, nor with any amount of accuracy.

You're missing a key part of Mass Effect's lore that makes rebuilding and re-seeding the relays impossible; ships that travel at FTL speeds need to regularly discharge static energy buildup either directly into a suitable planet's surface, or in the case of ships too large to land, into its magnetic field. If the static energy buildup is not discharged, it eventually discharges into the ship's hull, frying everything and everyone inside.

While system to system travel within a cluster is possible without relays, travel between clusters impossible without them, as there are no suitable planets between clusters, and the distance is too far to travel without discharging.

Lugbzurg:
So, you didn't like the endings... Big deal.

That's not the problem.

It's the fact that BioWare kinda broke their promises, and the plot holes are so large you can fit a galaxy in them.

Seriously, I watched everything I could about the ending - it doesn't make no sense, and the indoctrination theory is just that... "Theory".

It could be either true and hidden by the writers themselves (unlikely) or just a bunch of delusional people with a lot of hindsight bias.

Lugbzurg:
Ok, I haven't actually commented on any of this Mass Effect stuff, but there is one thing that's been on my mind: People are taking this whole Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco way too far. So, you didn't like the endings... Big deal. There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with them. They're just boring, is all and completely uninspired. Nothing terribly wrong or evil. Just "meh".

The problem is there IS stuff fundamentally wrong with them. There are plot holes that would lead to the death of most species regardless of choice. Why did the relays explode but not kill everyone? A relay explosion is equal to a supernova.

How are the various fleets around Earth supposed to get back to their home worlds? I doubt many of them have enough fuel for more than a couple months of sustained FTL travel, if that. Not to mention medical supplies, food, and other necessities. Human food is poison to quarians and turians not to mention Earth just got roflstomped, it is unlikely that there is enough food for the human fleet much less the krogan, salarian, and asari. The Quarian home world is, at best, 18 years away at constant FTL speed.

How are isolated planets supposed to get supplies if it takes months/years to travel between clusters? Tuchanka is boned. It is a post-nuclear wasteland, their food is imported.

Sure on the surface the endings are almost passable. However, when you look deeper at the lore and "reality" of it the ending creates more problems than it solved. I, for one, would rather have a quick death by reapers than slowly starve to death in space.

Lugbzurg:
They're just boring, is all and completely uninspired. Nothing terribly wrong or evil. Just "meh".

Nah, it's worse than that. The three main issues are:
1) Your choices don't matter at all, despite Bioware explicitly stating they would.
2) There are large, obviously nonsensical plot holes that take a lot of logical acrobatics to explain (and several that just can't be explained, like why the Normandy crashes).
3) Almost none of the subplots are resolved with any sense of closure. The big bad boss from ME2, Harbinger, inexplicably flies away and is never seen again, leaving Marauder Shields to face off against you as your final opponent.

The whole thing was clearly a last-minute rush job, probably with a lot of half-finished content cut to make the deadline.

Actually in terms of the Supernova Mass Relays, one could speculate that the only reason the Alpha Relay went Supernova was because the containment field for the Mass Effect Generator was broken causing a sudden explosive force as the field destabilized and energy was released in an uncontrolled way.

Now with the Crucible, It releases the beam from the Citadel that hits the Mass Relays that causes the Mass Effect Generators to use that energy in a controlled form of a high energy reaction, giving enough energy to Fuse DNA or fry synthetics, or override a signal that makes Shepard the main Reaper guy. And once all the energy from the Relays are used up in the mass release, the structure that contained the Generator collapses upon itself thus making the Relay explode from growing too unstable.

Lugbzurg:
So, you didn't like the endings... Big deal. There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with them. They're just boring, is all and completely uninspired. Nothing terribly wrong or evil. Just "meh".

Actually, they are fundamentally broken, literally.

Lugbzurg:
Ok, I haven't actually commented on any of this Mass Effect stuff, but there is one thing that's been on my mind: People are taking this whole Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco way too far. So, you didn't like the endings... Big deal. There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with them. They're just boring, is all and completely uninspired. Nothing terribly wrong or evil. Just "meh".

If boring and uninspired are all they are, does this mean you're saying they make sense?

If so, I have a couple of questions for you (check your obscenity meter at the door).

Ok, looks like I might have messed up some here. But, at least you get to decide how/if stuff gets wrecked and pick out a color... sort of.

Yes, it could have been done leagues better. Even Sonic the Hedgehog 2 did a better job than this, and it wasn't even created for that purpose. But, what I'm getting at is that people freaked out about this way too hard.

The endings aren't evil. They aren't necessarily "wrong". They're just poorly-written and failed to comply with what the games were building up 'till that point. Not evil. Just stupid. Stupid with paradoxes to boot.

Lugbzurg:
Ok, looks like I might have messed up some here. But, at least you get to decide how/if stuff gets wrecked and pick out a color... sort of.

Yes, it could have been done leagues better. Even Sonic the Hedgehog 2 did a better job than this, and it wasn't even created for that purpose. But, what I'm getting at is that people freaked out about this way too hard.

The endings aren't evil. They aren't necessarily "wrong". They're just poorly-written and failed to comply with what the games were building up 'till that point. Not evil. Just stupid. Stupid with paradoxes to boot.

Here's what I would define as people "freaking out way too hard". Arson. People sitting down on a forum somewhere, creating a petition, donating to charity or filing an FTC complaint are about the most mild, innocuous things you could describe as freaking out.

I don't get why it's so hard to understand people's frustrations and motivations.

endtherapture:
Nihlus said something in ME1 how interstellar travel is impossible without Relays because they take so long apparently.

They cannot travel between clusters, but they can still travel between systems, which f.y.i ARE PRETTY DARN BIG.

Seriously, the amount of resources they have at hand, even without the mass relays is incredible, dunno why people think that all the races will be confined only to one planet. Oh and its not like even crashed ships (see: Jacob's loyalty mission) can survive for what, years? without any outside assistance. For god's sake, they can build space-stations that house thousands if not millions of people, space and resources is not a problem.

idarkphoenixi:

Moth_Monk:
SPOILER WARNING!

I've noticed that some Mass Effect fans have criticized the ending of Mass Effect 3 because, since the Mass Relays are destroyed, everyone will be left wherever they are or, as with the fleets, just stranded on Earth.

But this is nonsense, not only do the various alien races have access to Faster than Light travel they also can manipulate Mass Effect fields. It seems to me that the most likely result is that everyone would work together to make new Mass Effect relays. After all the only limitation to the Faster than Light travel is availability of fuel and as we all know fuel can (infamously! :D) be mined from planets.

If they could have made Mass Effect relays so easily they would already have done so. The reapers have explained in the first Mass Effect that they built the relays for other civilisations to find (therefore following the path the reapers wanted). The reapers are technologically advanced far beyond anyones comprehension, nobody else could have built those relays.

That's true but together the fleets managed to build the Crucible (which can actually rewrite DNA over a galaxy somehow!) so I'm sure new Relays would eventually be built.

Moth_Monk:

idarkphoenixi:

Moth_Monk:
SPOILER WARNING!

I've noticed that some Mass Effect fans have criticized the ending of Mass Effect 3 because, since the Mass Relays are destroyed, everyone will be left wherever they are or, as with the fleets, just stranded on Earth.

But this is nonsense, not only do the various alien races have access to Faster than Light travel they also can manipulate Mass Effect fields. It seems to me that the most likely result is that everyone would work together to make new Mass Effect relays. After all the only limitation to the Faster than Light travel is availability of fuel and as we all know fuel can (infamously! :D) be mined from planets.

If they could have made Mass Effect relays so easily they would already have done so. The reapers have explained in the first Mass Effect that they built the relays for other civilisations to find (therefore following the path the reapers wanted). The reapers are technologically advanced far beyond anyones comprehension, nobody else could have built those relays.

That's true but together the fleets managed to build the Crucible (which can actually rewrite DNA over a galaxy somehow!) so I'm sure new Relays would eventually be built.

Even if it was true (although mass effect lore says it isnt) They would be stuck using a strict amount of resources. Could a destroyed Earth hold everything needed to make a mass relay? But even if they COULD make a mass relay, there certainly is no way they could co-ordinate them to join up with other systems.

They would need to find a way to link each mass relay together, without using travel or communication with anyone else in the galaxy who might happen to be making one as well.

idarkphoenixi:

Even if it was true (although mass effect lore says it isnt) They would be stuck using a strict amount of resources. Could a destroyed Earth hold everything needed to make a mass relay? But even if they COULD make a mass relay, there certainly is no way they could co-ordinate them to join up with other systems.

They would need to find a way to link each mass relay together, without using travel or communication with anyone else in the galaxy who might happen to be making one as well.

There is nothing in the lore that says they couldn't make Mass relays.

SajuukKhar:

idarkphoenixi:

Even if it was true (although mass effect lore says it isnt) They would be stuck using a strict amount of resources. Could a destroyed Earth hold everything needed to make a mass relay? But even if they COULD make a mass relay, there certainly is no way they could co-ordinate them to join up with other systems.

They would need to find a way to link each mass relay together, without using travel or communication with anyone else in the galaxy who might happen to be making one as well.

There is nothing in the lore that says they couldn't make Mass relays.

The fact that the Reapers (a race of sentient machines which are far advanced beyond anyones comprehension) were the only ones capable of making mass relays would logically mean that nobody else could make them. It's likely that the materials needed don't even exist in that universe.

As I've said, if it's so easy to make them, then they would have done so during the thousands of years they have had the ability to space travel. If they couldn't do it during all that time they certainly can't do it after being stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Maybe there is an ace up the sleeves of Bioware. They brought back Shepherd once, the can surely do it again. The "cycles" repeat every 5000 years and now that Sheppy boy is a legend and is in control of the reapers, who know about making the Mass Relays, then maybe theres a way around it somehow, who knows?

The whole game kicked so much bottom for me that even the ending didnt stop me from booting it up again and replaying the damn thing almost immediately. The main point for me in the ending was.................. Tali survived, and so did her sexy voice, that was enough to satisfy me.

idarkphoenixi:

The fact that the Reapers (a race of sentient machines which are far advanced beyond anyones comprehension) were the only ones capable of making mass relays would logically mean that nobody else could make them. It's likely that the materials needed don't even exist in that universe.

As I've said, if it's so easy to make them, then they would have done so during the thousands of years they have had the ability to space travel. If they couldn't do it during all that time they certainly can't do it after being stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Umm the Protheans made a Mass Relay.

Beyond that The Reaper's cant travel to other galaxies, much less other dimensions or other universes, so the materials to build them would have to be in the galaxy. Furthermore Mass Relays don't need to be made out of the same uber-metal The Reapers usem, they would have to be fixed/repaired more often without it, but there is nothing to indicate you NEED the Reapers uber-metal.
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Secondly why would they need to make Mass Relays when they already have them?

The races of the galaxy have a fully functional system of Mass Relays already, they don't have the desire to make more because they already have them.

The whole reason can be summed up with the "give a man a fish he becomes dependent on you for fish" thing. They have become so dependent on the Reapers tech and ghave lived so long with the thought that The Relays would always be there that they dont have the want to build more.

That is what was so damn important about blowing up the citadel and the Mass Relay system. It breaks the final link of dependance the galaxy had on the Reapers, and forces the hand of the civilizations of the galaxy to do it themselves for once.

Jodah:

Lugbzurg:
Ok, I haven't actually commented on any of this Mass Effect stuff, but there is one thing that's been on my mind: People are taking this whole Mass Effect 3 ending fiasco way too far. So, you didn't like the endings... Big deal. There isn't anything fundamentally wrong with them. They're just boring, is all and completely uninspired. Nothing terribly wrong or evil. Just "meh".

The problem is there IS stuff fundamentally wrong with them. There are plot holes that would lead to the death of most species regardless of choice. Why did the relays explode but not kill everyone? A relay explosion is equal to a supernova.

How are the various fleets around Earth supposed to get back to their home worlds? I doubt many of them have enough fuel for more than a couple months of sustained FTL travel, if that. Not to mention medical supplies, food, and other necessities. Human food is poison to quarians and turians not to mention Earth just got roflstomped, it is unlikely that there is enough food for the human fleet much less the krogan, salarian, and asari. The Quarian home world is, at best, 18 years away at constant FTL speed.

How are isolated planets supposed to get supplies if it takes months/years to travel between clusters? Tuchanka is boned. It is a post-nuclear wasteland, their food is imported.

Sure on the surface the endings are almost passable. However, when you look deeper at the lore and "reality" of it the ending creates more problems than it solved. I, for one, would rather have a quick death by reapers than slowly starve to death in space.

I think I've commented enough on the endings by now, but seriously? All those things you sum up are just depressing. Not fundamentally wrong. I don't see how you can miss that difference.

 

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