Do you consider Lilith Aensland fans Lolicons? Pages 1 2 3 4 5 6 NEXT | |
No. Lilith has small breasts and is a bit short, but to call her loli is stretching it a bit. | |
Yeah, Rachael from BlazBlue I get being called loli... Lillith, not so much. It may have to do with the gothic aesthetic as well, but idk how heavily that factor into the concept of loli | |
It's because she's drawn 'cute'. Make anything with small breasts cute and it suddenly gets slapped with the loli tag. | |
Who? *googles "Lilith Aensland"* Uh huh. *google image search, same subject* Huh. ... I'm not sure what the exact parameters of "lolicon" are, but that character pretty clearly appeals to folks that way inclined. And judging by those image results, the appeal has been mighty successful. Can't say I'm bothered by it. If someone else is sexually attracted to a suspiciously youthful looking fictional character than that's their business. Although lusting after something that doesn't exist seems like a waste of effort to me. | |
Wiki say's she's 5' 6", which is about the same as me. I tried images, but I couldn't tell which where official and which were just fan art. Not sure the parameters of loli are, but I'm guessing being anywhere close to a normal adult height isn't one of them. | |
It's definitely true that there's a lot of fanart that tries to make her look as youthful as possible. And not even the official art is entirely consistent. Personally, I like the artwork that tries to make her as mature as possible. Not giving her big boobs or anything like that, but with a mature, adult looking face and artwork that accentuates her tall height. Like this, for instance. | |
I had to look up what lolicon meant haha, I find that fact funny. I also had to look up who Lilith was as I have never played the Dark Stalkers series. I think if you like the Character Lilith a lot, that means you like the character Lilith a lot. This world I tell yeah. Why are you so stressed what others think about your obsession with this character? I have similer feelings towards things that people might feel is taboo, but if they don't like it I never feel the need to explain myself, or justify myself, you arn't hurting anyone or doing anything wrong. I for one find Lilith more attractive then Morrigan from what I have seen, I am also coincidentally more into smaller chested women. The bust size holds no interest for me. Girls I fall for tend to have flat/small chests. So sue me. | |
She's not an adult though. She takes that form because she has the mind of a little girl. | |
Oh? Why? Do you have any proof of that as canon? She's stated to be an incomplete form, and a piece of Morrigan's soul. Much to my chagrin as it lead to them not doing much with her character that isn't related to returning to Morrigan. She has a bubbly personality, but not any more so than, say, Felicia. And why would a sexually active succubus(or heavily implied, at least) have "the mind of a little girl"? Because if anything, that's gross. They shouldn't be having a succubus, who acts more flirtatious than Morrigan as being stated as anything like having the "mind of a child". If she really is stated to be like this anywhere, can we retcon this please and make it less like this? Because a character stated to have the mind of a child should not act this sexually suggestive in a mainstream video game. Make her "piece of Morrigan soul" angle less important and give her own story. With lots of new characterization and development. Heck, I'd love to play a whole game about her. I've been dying for a lot of cool characterization about her since they introduced her but never got any. And what do you mean takes on that form? She's as tall as Felicia and Morrigan? The only difference is that she doesn't have the big boobs of either. And maybe that her face is just a bit rounder. But there are plenty of adult anime characters with her face. Maybe I've been watching anime too long that it doesn't look kiddish. She doesn't have any younger looking of a face than Felicia, that's for sure. Who has a round face and big old anime eyes. I don't know that what you're saying is canon as just your own interpretation. If what you're saying is true I've made a big mistake, or at the very least like my fanon a whole like better. And then I'd have to say there aren't really any Darkstalkers characters I like a whole lot. At least not in canon. Because I sure as heck don't like Morrigan or Felicia. | |
If you don't like blonde bimbos with bra-busting bazooka blitzkrieg breasts then you're clearly a paedophile. Where have you been?! | |
she has an ass in the sprite. | |
Technically, Loli or not is purely a question of physicality. Is her physical body equivalent to that of an adolescent, pre-puberty human female? If yes, she's a loli. | |
How old is Lilith? If she's younger than 16 (16 & 17 are kinda grey areas), then yeah, it makes you a paedophile, just one who hasn't fucked real little children. I'm perfectly fine with that;. If she's 18+, no, you just have an odd obsession with a character. No biggie. If it's unspecified, it's another grey area in which I have no opinion. Also, technically, Lilith Aensland is/would be a lolicon. You are/would be just a lolicon-fan. Oh, and lastly, this does indeed make you hypocritical. You've said "don't hypersexualise women, and don't like it!" in the past. Well, you like it, so yeah, you're now a hypocrite. You're not getting out of this because of "inb4." You argued against it, and then you take part in it. The very definition of a hypocrite. We didn't let anti-gay gay Republicans get out of their scandals without branding them as hypocrites. You've just done the same thing. And that's the biggest issue I have in your entire post, OP. | |
No, I said that women are oversexualized. I didn't say that women should never be sexualized. You are misrepresenting my positions. And I'm well aware that anyone who takes any issue with the state of sexualization of women will get lots and lots of people misrepresenting or "stramanning" them and getting ultra-defensive. And then calling people hypocrites when they prove they're not against all sexualization of women. I'm sick of people making a false dichotomy of sexualization where you have to celebrate the tendency to sexualization women in comparison to men, or not at all. And that it's so common as to have become ultra-predictable. | |
It's hard to get more oversexualized, when it's a character in skin-tight clothing, featuring a cleavage hole, who is a LITERAL sex demon... | |
I've never actually seen you post before. I admittedly just kinda went along with what I thought you were saying. Tell me, then, do you agree with the "don't like it!" part? If you do, then that would indeed be the very definition of a hypocrite. If you don't, then I'm glad to say I was wrong. | |
Indeed. But it's not the fact that it exists. And it doesn't get worse I think as women get more sexualized. The problem is that women are almost always pushed into this direction in video games. Fighting games and Darkstalers included have a problem of making female characters for sexual gratification, while not male characters. Heck, none of the guys in Darkstalkers are sexualized. Obviously appealing to a male gaze. Heck, most of the guys don't even look human. I can see a problem in video games, fighting games, and Darkstalkers included. But that doesn't mean I can't like one of the hypersexualized female characters while admitting the problem. | |
And that's where my whole hypocrisy argument lies. "Women in video games are too oversexualised. It's not cool. I want to have sex with this oversexualised female video game character." That is an example of hypocrisy that could go in a dictionary. You can certainly point out it's a problem, but I don't really think you can actively try to put a stop to it, not any more, at least. Again, I go back to the anti-gay gay Republicans. | |
No. No? No. | |
I think that people should realize how privileged and dominant the (heterosexual)male gaze is in the video game industry and shouldn't support that. There are other issues in the media that are problematic than sexualization. Such as female submissiveness. Which I think is why many people in the anime industry found Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt a very refreshing series. Sexualization of women itself isn't what is the problem, but what it tends to lead to being a part of in the larger picture. I wouldn't support "liking" the dominance of the heterosexual male gaze being privileged. Because it's rather selfish. On the other hand, sexual attraction is very natural and people are perfectly welcome to express their sexual desires in an appropriate fashion. Sexual repression is a horrible thing. It would just be nice to see less sexualized female characters when there are already plenty of them, less female characters than rely on sex appeal to be in the game, and more male characters that are sexualized. | |
But in the reasons you stated why you liked Lilith, you included "her clothes! And her demeanor! And her words!", all of which are pretty much central to her sexualization. So you're obviously fine with sexualization in some cases, but don't think it should be that way in all? Is that accurate? | |
I must've missed the part where being attracted to pre-pubescent people isn't paedophilia and being attracted to pubescent people isn't ephebophilia. Did that change at some point?
Let's pretend that first paragraph is true. Could it simply be a capitalistic pandering to demographics. Yeah, actually, assuming that's true, that's what it is. Catering to demographics. Now let's go with the truth: it's not. Men and women are fairly equal. Need I point out specific examples? Cate Archer. Femshep. All women in the Sims series. Venus, Barbara, etc. The list goes on. There is no inequality between men and women in society, nor is there any real difference in video games. Your second (technically last) paragraph...I'm not sure where to even begin. The hypocrisy? Or the hypocrisy? Okay, the hypocrisy. You like an extremely hypersexualised woman. Your anti-hypersexualisation argument is kinda moot. Moving on to the hypocrisy. "Women need to be less sexualised, men need to be more sexualised!" I think that about sums up my argument; the hypocrisy points itself out. | |
Actually, paedophilia is defined as the attraction to pre-pubescent children. Edit: Ah, ninja'd by yourself. | |
I know, that's why I mentioned them.
In all? I guess. I think I know what you mean. I certainly wouldn't want all female characters to be like this. More, I think the video game industry already already has too many characters like Lilith, Morrigan, and Felicia. And we don't need to keep churning them out and making them the dominant face of women in the gaming industry. | |
*shrugs* i like Felicia and Morrigan better, cause they don't feel as awkward in battle. sides >.> isn't Lilith 'dead' conically? i seem to recall her ending involving her rejoining/fusing with Morrigan | |
Lilith's a boy. /troll But OT: | |
No..she's a demon and obviously over 18. You just like petite women, there's nothing wrong with that :/ | |
Actually, I've heard that Lilith's character was originally intended to be male. But they switched it up later and decided to make Lilith female and a part of Morrigan. There's a lot of directions they could have gone with Lilith but didn't.:/ | |
I don't think Lilith is a loli. She may be rather flat upstairs, but she's got them good, old-fashioned 'child-bearing hips' | |
And that's why the hypocrisy argument is stupid. Because I like a hypersexualized female character, I have to agree with the tendency to do it and double standard in the media? That's ridiculous. That's like saying because I like a white video game character like Lilith I can't concede that there's a problem of underrepresentation of non-whites in video games. Lilith is basically a "white" video game character, and I like her. By this logic you're calling me a hypocrite, I can't possibly think that black video game characters are underrepresented. And doing so would be hypocrisy. Even though I think that black people are underrepresented in video games and it's very refreshing, that, say, Pokemon Black and White have plenty of black gym leaders and trainers, and thus, more diversity. Stop interpreting things in terms of such extremes. Because by this logic, someone who likes a white video game character is practically a white supremacist. | |
I've seen pre-pubescent often as younger that 11-13, while the ephebophile area is 14-17. Plus it isn't so clear cut with fictional characters in an anime style, especially if extraordinary circumstances are involved, like in the case here with Lilith being a succubus. That girl is, in canon, 9 years old. Not a typo and not joking. She hasn't even made double digits. She is also however an Angel. See how gray it all is? OT: No, you're not a lolicon. This girl just has small breasts and appears to be fairly mature in appearance. It's hard to argue for or against wither answer, but I guess knowing her age would help. I'd place her around 15-16, which places you in a safe zone. Calumon: Why is there a blindfold on me? What, huh, where am I? Jack: Quiet Calumon, the grown ups are having grown up talk. | |
Because you like the very thing you're bitching about, you've lost all credibility when it comes to that topic. Much like the anti-gay gay Republican has lost all credibility when it comes to anti-gay legislation. I like how you're trying to make this a race issue when race hasn't been an issue for half a century. Good try. In the media and video games, people cast who's right. It's not racism, and any one who thinks that has, in my experience, been kinda racist themselves. Reverse racism. Now, we're on the topic of women, not blacks, so let's stick there, yes? If you like this character because she's white, then it's really stupid of you to bitch about how blacks are under-represented. In much the same way, you like Lilith because she's oversexualised, so it's really stupid of you to bitch about how women are oversexualised. Big difference between liking a character because they're X and liking someone who happens to be X. Yours is a case of the former.
Gray in terms of dictionary definitions, a clear cut case of paedophilia legally. Also, that's pretty freaking disgusting. | |
Factually incorrect. Wages alone are significantly lower even if the same work is done, and there is a massive disparity in health care, for example. Men get paid viagra, a luxury, whereas women can be denied the pill, even in cases where it is a medical necessity, for example to prevent cancer.
Factually incorrect. There is a pretty obvious disparity in roles for characters of either gender, even when it makes no logical sense. For example, games like Risen unrealistically portray a medival society where women are absent outside of the kitchen , unlike real medieval societies, where women were visible, and 25% of blacksmiths tended to be female (ex: registers of london, around 1400, had 25% female blacksmiths and 30% female tanners, among others). Similarly, up to 20% of pirate corpses (that participated in battle and worked on the ship according to the bone wear) that we found are of women, yet gamers and developers alike cling to the unrealistic fantasy version where pirates were all male. This is artificial sexism at the expense of female characters solely so insecure male gamers can play characters in a fantasy setting where women are largely invisible. You're hurting your point by stating that things are true that are blatantly false.
Actually, that argument isn't hypocritical at all. Let me use an example that you can easily understand. Room A and B have temperatures that are not comfortable. Room A is too cold, and Room B is too hot. To have both rooms at a comfortable temperature, we need more heat in room A, and less heat in room B. Even you must understand that arguing that both rooms need to be heated is stupid. Just because room A need more heat doesn't mean room B also needs more heat. Sometimes, different problems need different solutions. In this case, yes, to have any sort of parity we'd need more sexualisation of male characters, and less of female characters, so both are equally sexualized and both genders get what they want. | |
No, stop interpreting things in ridiculous extremes.
I'm not making it a race issue any more than you're making it a gay issue with all the gay republican comparisons. I LIKE HOW YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE THIS A GAY ISSUE, NICE TRY. HAR HAR HAR. And race hasn't been an issue for half a century? Only if you're blinded by white privilege. Western society is hugely permeated by white privilege. Racism is still very alive. And the video game culture certainly has huge, whopping degrees of white privilege and has almost no characters that are not white.
YEAH, THEY CAST WHITE PEOPLE BECAUSE WHITE IS RIGHT! FREAKING REVERSE RACISM! Almost everyone in video games just happens to be coincidentally white. There couldn't possibly be any cultural racism that leads to this, could there?
IT'S OKAY FOR ME TO MAKE COMPARISONS RELATED TO GAY PEOPLE AND HOMOPHOBIA BUT IT'S NOT OKAY FOR SOMEONE TO MAKE RACE COMPARISONS IN A GENDER DISCUSSION. Caps lock for fun. And not being too serious all the time maybe something. Edit: Top notch arguing there, zefiris! I'm impressed and agree. Wow, this has become another thread about sexism and sexism in the game industry. | |
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Because I've heard a lot of people call them that.
I may permanently ruin any respect I may have ever said by letting out where my username comes from. Well, worse than it was already.
But I've been a big fan of Lilith Aensland ever since she was first introduced. And she's still my favourite fighting game character of all time. And not in some platonic "I think she's cool" sort of way. But in a "I'm perversely and creepily obsessed with a fictional character" sort of way. My username, if you hadn't figured out the OH SO CRYPTIC reality by now, it's a bdsm related reference of sorts to Lilith Aensland. "Lilith's Slave". It's hard to put characters like ' in usernames, so I just had to go with the easiest method.
Remember how I'm known apparently as like this crazy feminist or something that thinks guys should not be macho, and women should not be objectified and sexualized so much. Like somehow my criticism means I think something should be illegal or is never okay or something like that instead of "hey, don't you think the direction we're going might be a little unhealthy?". But me, miss crazy something-something, love Litith, a fairly flat, unimportant, undeveloped hypersexualized succubus woman. From a franchise of games where only the women are sexualized.
I mean good lord, look at her clothes! And her demeanor! And her words! God, she's such an underdog too, if you know her story. They practically killed her right after introducing her. I've been lucky she gets lots of cameo's because I'm apparently not the only one who likes her. Oh, and in before someone calls me a hypocrite for liking her, considering my stances on other things.
It's really strange, she has almost nothing to her, but she's one of my favourite fictional characters and I lap up everything that has her. I flipped out when I heard she would be in Cross Edge.
That's right, that's what my name means. I would be Lilith's Slave. A fictional, animated, 2D "manga" character.
But while I pretty happily and thoroughly like this character. I've noticed one thing over the years said in the gaming community about Lilith and Lilith fans. Is that they're always calling Lilith a loli and Lilith fans lolicons. That's pretty much just a few steps from outright calling us paedophiles. And I really don't get it, either. I've never seen her as anything other than an adult. She's younger than Morrigan, but I doubt she's super young or anything. She's a flippin' succubus. She's 5 feet and 6 inches tall, basically as tall as Morrigan, and taller than a lot of real life adult women. She's got long legs(to confirm her stated height). And her sprite is just as big as Morrigan's, also to confirm her height. And the only real physical difference between her and Morrigan, is she doesn't have big boobs.
Has the term "lolicon" really just finally become another word for "into flat chests" or maybe even "into kinda somewhat a little young looking", or are people literally calling Lilith fans a bunch of kinda paedos? If the latter, why?
So weigh in, gaming community. I like Lilith Aensland. A lot. Does that make me a lolicon? And what do you mean by that?