Mass Effect 3: Extended Cut is not victory.

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Before the incoming flame from the "I R teh Mature one so stfu" clique of this site, please watch this:

I have not watched this channels videos before and do not care if you are a fan or if you hate the man but points are made about how this "Extended Cut" is not a victory for Retake Mass Effect. If anything, it will fuel the fire even more.

This takes the pile of shit that was the ending and simply puts on the platter so we can see exactly how this pile of shit looks up close, and possibly destroys the only way out that could have kept Bioware's credibility intact (Indoctrination ending).

*sighs*

Well, I guess nothing is going to please you then.

Honestly, would it have earned them any more respect if they changed the ending from where it stands? I don't think they should change it, just give a bit more explanation on the events that happened and some more insight into what happened to the characters. And from what I gather, that's exactly what this is setting out to do. If they explain everything well, I don't think they should change the ending at all. I wish the indoctrination theory was true, because it would more easily allow for further continuations of the game, but as it stands I think an explanation is the best thing that they could offer without changing the ending just because we say so.

People are going to complain no matter what, so maybe they should just ignore everyone anyway.

Well... yeah.

I was not under the impression that anyone was regarding it as a victory. Best case scenario, it will reduce the ending from 100% crap to 80% crap. But that remains to be seen.

Sadly, there was no way they were going to rewrite the whole thing, if only because it would require a lot of effort and money.

Incidentally, I disagree with the notion of the existing ending being made to allow for sequels. Don't the differences, however small and poorly depicted, between the three endings kind of prelude that. How would a sequel account for the possibility of synthesis? They could declare one ending canon and just go with that, but they could have done that regardless of how the third game ended.

That's pretty much the way I feel about it as well. Unfortunately I think they are hoping for the best and are willing to cut their losses if the DLC goes well enough for fans.

This whole thing says more about the fans of the series than the company that made it. We saw this occur earlier in the year when the Mass Effect book was released and there was a petition to change various lore issues that were discovered.

Contributing to fandom does not inherently provide the consumer with creative rights to a given product. This is especially true of "art forms" which, I think, most Mass Effect fans would argue the video game is aspiring towards. Consumerism simply provides the ability to consume the product.

If you don't like the product, the only recourse you have is to ask for a refund.

This basic fact is altogether missing in the hive-mind that encapsulates the Mass Effect fan base.

If years of being an Ashley fan in the Mass Effect community has taught me anything, it's this: Don't expect the world and no matter how shit things get, regard anything that can be considered 'less shitty' as a win.

Ashley's role in Mass Effect 3 was pretty minor, with her being in a hospital for the first third of the game and then running out of things to say with the exception of her romance scenes (and the whole 'tension' angle that they beat around like crazy) but frankly after Horizon the fact that I got any romance scenes at all, which in fairness on their own merits were quite good, was enough for me to consider it a victory.

Likewise, as justified as fans were to hate the ending and want a new one, you can't be surprised that you didn't get a new one. The world is cruel sometimes, be hopeful that at the very least this DLC might give some closure and make things less depressing. You never know. Point is you should consider getting anything out of this as a victory.

For what it's worth I myself am done angrily hoping for a new ending, largely because my Xbox was stolen so for me it hardly matters (yeah hows that for a dissapointing ending). Frankly I'm more interested in those prototype figures of Ashley, Garrus and Shepard made by Play Arts Kai that can be viewed on Mass Effect's official facebook page.

Yeah I'm kind of at the acceptance/bartering stage of grief right now. I've resigned myself to thinking this is as good as it gets, now I just want those figurines on my shelf. I like to think that means I have more realistic expectations.

True victory would only come from BioWare shaping up and developing games with the same love and care they had before EA "corrupted" them.

But whatever, I'm thankful for Valve.

I'm not buying this whole artistic merit argument. Since when does EA give a shit about artistic merit? Its seems like they're too afraid to charge for game ending DLC so they try to appease the fans while doing so with as little effort as possible.

I'm no ME3 fan, but wouldn't it be better if a proper game ending DLC was developed? For such DLC to warrant development, it would have to be profitable. They would have to charge for the game ending changing DLC you people want and would have every right to do so.

Vrex360:
If years of being an Ashley fan in the Mass Effect community has taught me anything, it's this: Don't expect the world and no matter how shit things get, regard anything that can be considered 'less shitty' as a win.

Ashley's role in Mass Effect 3 was pretty minor, with her being in a hospital for the first third of the game and then running out of things to say with the exception of her romance scenes (and the whole 'tension' angle that they beat around like crazy) but frankly after Horizon the fact that I got any romance scenes at all, which in fairness on their own merits were quite good, was enough for me to consider it a victory.

Likewise, as justified as fans were to hate the ending and want a new one, you can't be surprised that you didn't get a new one. The world is cruel sometimes, be hopeful that at the very least this DLC might give some closure and make things less depressing. You never know. Point is you should consider getting anything out of this as a victory.

For what it's worth I myself am done angrily hoping for a new ending, largely because my Xbox was stolen so for me it hardly matters (yeah hows that for a dissapointing ending). Frankly I'm more interested in those prototype figures of Ashley, Garrus and Shepard made by Play Arts Kai that can be viewed on Mass Effect's official facebook page.

Yeah I'm kind of at the acceptance/bartering stage of grief right now. I've resigned myself to thinking this is as good as it gets, now I just want those figurines on my shelf. I like to think that means I have more realistic expectations.

How does one get their console stolen? Break-in? That sucks :\

Jaeke:

Vrex360:
Snip

How does one get their console stolen? Break-in? That sucks :\

Yeah, they broke in.
Made off with so much of my stuff it's unbelievable. Worst still I had never even gotten to play Mass Effect 3 because like an idiot I decided to be responsible and get my uni studies done first.

Vrex360:

Jaeke:

Vrex360:
Snip

How does one get their console stolen? Break-in? That sucks :\

Yeah, they broke in.
Made off with so much of my stuff it's unbelievable. Worst still I had never even gotten to play Mass Effect 3 because like an idiot I decided to be responsible and get my uni studies done first.

serves you right for being a responsible person :P

Sorry man, I feel for you. Good luck getting it back.

Watch when the deliver the ending, they'll ALSO have pay-for DLC to "enhance" the ending.

Well personally, I never asked for this.

I never really felt like adding on to the ending would have solved anything. My issue with the game's ending was simply how poorly written and poorly executed it was. Also it bothered me so much that the choices that were labeled "good" went completely against the established themes of the previous games. The only way that the ending made a little bit of sense was the indoctrination theory, and even this interpretation has flaws.

All I wanted was for the people in charge of the ending (whoever they are) to come out and publicly apologize for how terrible the ending was and admit that Mass Effect 3 deserved better. They didn't have to make a super spectacular happy ending where Shepard saves the day, but it deserved better than a poorly written ending that went against established themes and involved the use of space magic.

ahh..I was going to make a thread on this but too scared because of the potential backlash

anyway...I'm going to put on my fan-girl hat and say youre right...honestly its not enough

they have made it clear they arnt changing the ending..just adding somthing extra. A few cutscnes? some epilouge text? although its too early to speculate unless they are going for eather a retcon or another option..or ANYTHING, than yeah for alot of us it wont be enough

but to be fair..Im graful for SOMTHING...anything

*SPOILERS BELOW*

unlike the ending itself...I cant really argue againts shepard "dying", for me it was too much..too depressing, to die broken and alone like that...shepard deserved better <- but in the end that fact is it's still subjective

I doubt this new DLC will change the one thing I wish it would

EA: Without the respect for the fanbase that would let them write a good ending,

EA: Without the balls required to stick to their guns.

HUZZAH!

Samurai Silhouette:
Watch when the deliver the ending, they'll ALSO have pay-for DLC to "enhance" the ending.

Damnit! I was going to say that!

Aircross:
True victory would only come from BioWare shaping up and developing games with the same love and care they had before EA "corrupted" them.

But whatever, I'm thankful for Valve.

Fully agree. Thank god for Jim Steam. I think all hope is lost for Bioware, their next big thing will be being dissolved by EA.

You can polish explain a turd as much as you want, but it's still a turd. You can put a pretty hat on it, and the hat may be perfectly fine and part of what we wanted, but the turd is still there, and now the hat has poo on it.

Ahhh...not Angry Joe.

Though, to be honest, we really don't know what this new stuff will actually be. Their PR has been so flip-floppy and vague lately, I don't know what to believe when I read any of it.

i might be a bit cynical.. ok very cynical but when this dlc is released. honestly how many will be holding the line so to speak or even caring that much after months of waiting.

its something i suspect bioware and EA are counting on

Zhukov:
Well... yeah.

I was not under the impression that anyone was regarding it as a victory. Best case scenario, it will reduce the ending from 100% crap to 80% crap. But that remains to be seen.

Sadly, there was no way they were going to rewrite the whole thing, if only because it would require a lot of effort and money.

Incidentally, I disagree with the notion of the existing ending being made to allow for sequels. Don't the differences, however small and poorly depicted, between the three endings kind of prelude that. How would a sequel account for the possibility of synthesis? They could declare one ending canon and just go with that, but they could have done that regardless of how the third game ended.

Deus Ex and it's diverse three endings begat Invisible War. It can be done, doesn't mean it will be good. I always thought that they would make more games in the Mass Effect universe but not directly relating to the trilogy.

I am not qualified to comment as I don't own ME3.

EDIT: I kind of expected an ending that was determined by your actions, not a pick-a-ending situation, I should have known better, Bioware are terrible at fluid story telling, with them it is always the illusion of choice. I really wanted choice taken out of the end to be replaced with consequence, so that if you wanted a different ending you need to start at ME1 again, that isn't going to happen though, too much work.

Zhukov:
Well... yeah.

I was not under the impression that anyone was regarding it as a victory. Best case scenario, it will reduce the ending from 100% crap to 80% crap. But that remains to be seen.

Sadly, there was no way they were going to rewrite the whole thing, if only because it would require a lot of effort and money.

Incidentally, I disagree with the notion of the existing ending being made to allow for sequels. Don't the differences, however small and poorly depicted, between the three endings kind of prelude that. How would a sequel account for the possibility of synthesis? They could declare one ending canon and just go with that, but they could have done that regardless of how the third game ended.

Pretty much this.
Anyone who thinks this is a victory for Retake ME is greatly misinformed about their goals.

There never really was a good chance at victory, even though it wouldn't be too hard to give us what we wanted [Yeah, a cheap job of it, but a lot would accept that][Why I say this: Simply replace Catalyst with Harbinger hologram, add in option to say no, make Reapers win the fight, but show your war assets in effect. Then do what they're doing now. Not a ton of extra work IMO].

And agreed that there is no way they can make a sequel to this, even if its not a part of this trilogy.

How do you handle Shepard controlling the Reapers? He just ran off with them, whilst my Shepard would police the galaxy with them?

How do you handle the possible annihilation of the Geth?

How do you handle synthesis?
If anything, this was made to destroy the possibilities of sequels, or else enact some serious space magic.

Speaking of space magic, I have a feeling a lot will be enacted in this DLC.

Somehow the relay network can be rebuilt in some endings - whilst to rebuild it you would have to go to the locations of each Relay, which would take over 20 years to do.
Somehow the Normandy crew manages to find civilization.
Somehow nobody starves to death.
I'm just... Eh. I don't see them doing this without space magic, or without having the epilogue a significant amount of time later.

Joccaren:

There never really was a good chance at victory, even though it wouldn't be too hard to give us what we wanted [Yeah, a cheap job of it, but a lot would accept that][Why I say this: Simply replace Catalyst with Harbinger hologram, add in option to say no, make Reapers win the fight, but show your war assets in effect. Then do what they're doing now. Not a ton of extra work IMO].

I would be surprised if this DLC does not do something like that, honestly. This is mostly the type of thing I am expecting from it. The FAQ certianly makes it sound like they are doing a DA style wrap-up, at least. :/

OT: Being as someone who is not part of the Retake ME movement, I can't comment on how this will satisfy others. I will say that it disappoints me how many people are jumping to negative conclusions based on how little we have to go on. I say just sit back and wait for now. Bioware has listened (otherwise, why would they do this?), and they are trying to deliver something to satisfy all y'all.

Also, Angry Joe? Really? Just... Really? Okay...

Well it's a victory to me if it actually manages to tie up the plot holes from the original ending.
I didn't really care about the lack of choice or the lack of full closure on the characters, I just hated the plot holes.

I'm just glad they're not charging us for it. I honestly wouldn't have put it past them if they did.

Fleetfiend:
*sighs*

Well, I guess nothing is going to please you then.

Is this how you honestly think? You and about a hundred others on this site.

Do you think people are whining for no reason and would whine no matter what? Please, explain to me your train of thought.

Fleetfiend:
*sighs*

Well, I guess nothing is going to please you then.

Honestly, would it have earned them any more respect if they changed the ending from where it stands? I don't think they should change it, just give a bit more explanation on the events that happened and some more insight into what happened to the characters. And from what I gather, that's exactly what this is setting out to do. If they explain everything well, I don't think they should change the ending at all. I wish the indoctrination theory was true, because it would more easily allow for further continuations of the game, but as it stands I think an explanation is the best thing that they could offer without changing the ending just because we say so.

People are going to complain no matter what, so maybe they should just ignore everyone anyway.

People are going to complain no matter what. But they aren't going to start movements and create elaborate theories to try to reconcile the inconsistencies in both lore and quality no matter what. Would it make people happier if they outright changed the ending? Assuming it at the very least fits in the context of the universe and isn't broken, then people by and large actually would be happier. I'm sure a few people would still complain, so you could technically say, "Oh, you'll just never be happy". But it should be obvious by now that this isn't a run-of-the-mill kind of disappointment. We shouldn't still be having to explain that at this point.

I agree explaining why your crap, is crap. Is still crap.

Casey Hudson as long as you work at bioware, I won't be giving you money.

Ihniwid:
This whole thing says more about the fans of the series than the company that made it. We saw this occur earlier in the year when the Mass Effect book was released and there was a petition to change various lore issues that were discovered.

If you don't like the product, the only recourse you have is to ask for a refund.

*sigh*

You missed the important bit in that story - there was big fan outcry over the book and within a few days Bioware had committed to fixing it and republishing the book.

That's just one example of many in this series where Bioware have done exactly what fans asked for. They've established that asking for a refund isn't the only recourse their fans have. Bioware dug this hole.

So it's wwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too late to be pretending fans are being delusional by asking for something to be changed - they're just doing what has worked pretty much every time in the past.

Ihniwid:
This whole thing says more about the fans of the series than the company that made it. We saw this occur earlier in the year when the Mass Effect book was released and there was a petition to change various lore issues that were discovered.

Contributing to fandom does not inherently provide the consumer with creative rights to a given product. This is especially true of "art forms" which, I think, most Mass Effect fans would argue the video game is aspiring towards. Consumerism simply provides the ability to consume the product.

If you don't like the product, the only recourse you have is to ask for a refund.

This basic fact is altogether missing in the hive-mind that encapsulates the Mass Effect fan base.

The issue with the ending is the same as the issue with the book. Bioware make a point of consistent background lore and history. All the story fits in and makes sense with occasional tweaks for artistic license when an explosion needs to happen.

The ending, like the book, threw it ALL out the window. Broke down the well-established back story and technological explanations. It also shifted focus away, quite drastically, from the main point of the series: the characters, in the last 10 minutes. Suddenly, we don't care about Joker or EDI or anyone, we care about ALL organic/synthetic life.

The choices themselves aren't even consistent. Why does red destroy ALL synthetics, the the blue only affect the Reapers? We don't care if the ending is tragic, we don't care if it leaves open a sequel. We care that Bioware gave up on themselves at the final hurdle.

In regards to the refund point. Would you get a refund on a car if it had a faulty component, or would you get it replaced/fixed? That's how I see this.

It's not a total victory, but it is A victory. Yes, the ending scenario is stupid in many ways, and that's almost definitely not going to change (But never say never) - but there are many problems with it that can be addressed. The biggest problem that I had with the ending is that it didn't give me any information at all on the issues I cared about (Allies, the future of the galaxy). Also, the consequences of each individual choice was poorly explained, and the post-choice sequence of events is fantastically unclear (and nonsensical). Those are likely to be addressed in this DLC, and that is A victory. It could be better - in all likelihood, everything Shepard experiences will remain unchanged, and that's unfortunate, because the last few minutes just suck, not because of the "pick an option and die" format - that can work - but because the options aren't properly explained, what is explained doesn't make sense, and Shepard can't object. That's a huge problem that should never have happened. But it's unlikely to be remedied at this point, so I'll take what I can get.

That said, they could always change their minds/be keeping it under wraps and fix it. But even if they don't, this will go a long way towards making me happier.

Well from what I can tell, there a 3 types of people when it comes to the ending
-those who will only be satisfied with a happy ending
-those who want the ending redone and better executed, to fix plot holes and have their choices have a larger impact on the ending
-those who simply want some closure as the ending is rather abrupt

So I guess it is a victory for those in the third camp. I'm still suspicious as whether or not this is actually in response to the fanbase, or if that this epilogue was planned from the begging and was either cut so the game would launch on time and it would be given out as free DLC later, or that it was cut to be sold as DLC, but all the negative publicity made them decide to make it free.

Oh look, more whining about Mass Effect 3's ending.
Can't you guys just get the fuck over it already? You didn't like the ending to a game, that's unfortunate. Now move on with your lives. If trying to get the ending of a game change seriously means that much to you. You need to get your priorities straight and bitch about something that matters.

I don't care for the ending as is. I think it poorly fitted to the spirit of the series in all respects. However. The end of something so engrossing and epic is pretty much going to fall short of expectations. That is just a sad flipside of doing something people love so much - wrapping it up perfectly is nearly impossible, and even if you should manage to hit the magic mark - someone's going to be unhappy. People are going to be unhappy just because something they loved ended. Period. There's no "winning" in this respect.

On the other hand, I only wanted to know what happened. I just wanted to feel done enough to pick it up and play it again with the feeling that I finished it behind me and could start again afresh for replays. I'm a simple woman that way.

So, if the extended cut does that - great, fine, alright that will do. If it doesn't, well then I'm back where I started not knowing what to do with myself when the credits roll.

As for the quality of the ending - see above, not great don't love it but I will accept the will of the writer(s) because in the end I must. Not telling me what happened - not having an end that even seemed like an ending at all - is something I can protest, the quality issue is something I feel is more subjective.

So... wait... does this mean gaming hasn't gone back a decade?

Can I stop playing Age of Mythology now?

Unsilenced:
So... wait... does this mean gaming hasn't gone back a decade?

Can I stop playing Age of Mythology now?

To answer those in order: yes and no. Age of Mythology is too damn good to stop playing. :D Now, what are you doing wasting time on forums? Get back to playing it! D:<

Jaeke:
I have not watched this channels videos before and do not care if you are a fan or if you hate the man but points are made about how this "Extended Cut" is not a victory for Retake Mass Effect.

I'm going to point out that I dislike Angry Joe, but I think it more underscores the fact that I appreciate his points, because it's harder to agree with someone you dislike.

But yes, this is what I've been saying since I read the PR. People didn't really look. What's funny is, this is another problem with video game journalism, because some fairly big sites misreported this. This is the opposite of a victory, sometimes called a loss. They totally missed the problem and all information points to NONE of it being addressed.

Though I do enjoy the apparent confirmation that the indoctrination theory is false, because I am amused by conspiracy theorists being shot down, and Indoctrination really was a conspiracy theory.

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