Why do you think The Reapers did it?

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SajuukKhar:

MomoElektra:
I tend to not believe genocidal mass murderers, yes. Silly me.

It's not as if we have 3 games establishing very clearly that the Reapers are a threat to organic life in the galaxy. We have a lot of evidence that he is lying or shifting the truth.

I find it strange that you believe a character simply because the writers wrote it. Cherry picking. Characters can't lie? Or be wrong? We have the council saying several times that the Reapers are a myth. You certainly don't believe them, do you?

I can only conclude that you accept the star child's/Reapers motivations because you essentially agree with them.

Actually I would have
1. Had the Reapers come in every cycle
2. Flat out tell organics "hey bad shit is gonna happen in you make synthetics"
3. Give them the option of being Reaperized and not having to deal wth the limits of organic individuality
4. Let the organics that choose not to be Reaperized live as long as they could until they made a synthetic race that tires to kill everything
5. Kill THAT synthetic race and leave organics with a warning we aren't gonna help you next time.
6. When they eventually do build a race of synthetic death-bots that try to kill everything again, wait till both sides are weakened from the war and kill them both before either has a chance to screw everything p for all the other future races.
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Beyond that there have been NUMEROUS instanced across various tv shows/games/movies were we were told "X thing is trying to harm us" when at the end it turns out they were actually saving everyone asses.

It isn't like it is a uncommon plot device, and the fact that in the first 2 games, and most of the 3d we believed the Reapers were threats doesn't change that said plot device is in play.

Just because you believed something for 2 and a half games doesn't mean the final act of the their game could prove you wrong.
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I can conclude you only want The Catalyst to be wrong to make a conspiracy out of a poorly written ending.

The problem with that system is that it already failed. The Reapers already tried to warn Organics not to create Synthetics but it is impossible to stop them because as much as the Reapers don't like it, they aren't omniscient. The only way is to set up the Mass Relays so they can keep tabs on all advanced lifeforms and take them out before their technology reaches the event horizon where they could create synthetics stronger then the Reapers.

MomoElektra:
snip

and you know the supposedly "changed" ending was actually just clarification on the original ending. GASPS!!! Clarification made it better.

Again it wasn't the plot device that was the problem, but the lack of clarification.

Also the series was worshiped long before the movies came out, in fact that is why there was so much backlash BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE CARED BEFORE THE MOVIES CAME OUT.

Its exactly like Mass Effect 3. The massive amounts of people who worship the game arent caused by a changed ending.
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Really? show me the words were he states "We The Reapers hate organic life"

All I recall is
-Organic life is chaotic
-We impose order on chaos
-You cannot stop us
-You cannot understand us
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Ok fine

The Reapers are actively trying to prevent organic life as a whole from being killed off forever.

Hitler and The Nazis tried to kill off any form of human that wasn't them.

Trying to protect life as a whole =/= trying to pretect only one specific sub-set of life.

The Reapers =/= The Nazis.

Seriously you really have some sort of Nazi paranoia or something
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Actually since there is nothing that could ever prove them wrong they are in fact right by default.

They have a unfalsifiable hypothesis
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If you cant prove there is another way to protect all life without killing anything you have no ability, and no ground to stand on, to make an argument that someone doing the ONLY KNOWN WAY to save things is wrong.

Also as pointed out before the Reapers are not synthetic, the are organic synthetic hybrids.

the Reapers are just as organics as they are synthetics.

SajuukKhar:

Revolutionaryloser:
I don't get the confusion. The original rulers of the galaxy realized that synthetics will eventually destroy any possibility of organic life from forming ever again. Organics advanced enough will always create synthetics as e have already seen. The solution to preserving organic life, i.e. the ultimate directive hardwired into the Reapers programming, is to eliminate only the organic life advanced enough to create synthetics.

The Reapers are the Gods of the galaxy. They control the various ecosystems through the Mass Relays and cull lifeforms that endanger the precarious balance in the galaxy. They don't think like a society, they think like beings far beyond mortality.

What isn't there to get? The Reapers have a God delusion and think they have the right to control life and death throughout the whole galaxy. That isn't even an uncommon theme in sci-fi.

Because the Catalyst never presents WHY they came to that conclusion, and offers no evidence to back it up.

Had like he pointed out examples of various races across time or w/e his point would have been proven.

As it stand right now he has a unproven, yet not disprovable motive.

Well, I don't see why he would have to prove anything. He's millions of years old and has had to destroy a myriad of organic and synthetic civilizations to stop the Synthetic plague from destroying the galaxy. I think he has better things to do than try to convince a dying human that he knows more than him /her. I mean, look at it from his perspective for a second.

If you went up to a farmer and asked him why he has to spray pesticides on the crop he would say it was to kill the bugs that ate the plants. If you asked him why he would say that that's what bugs do. If you asked why that was a problem he would say it was because if they ate the plants all the fruits would be lost and the farm would go bankrupt. If you told him you didn't believe all that BS and that you wanted facts he would probably give you a slap on the ear of the head and tell you to piss off and probably think you were an ignorant and precocious little git.

TO PREVENT ALL SPIRAL LIFE BECOMING ITS OWN MEGA-GALAXY.

Oh god, If only.

Revolutionaryloser:

Well, I don't see why he would have to prove anything. He's millions of years old and has had to destroy a myriad of organic and synthetic civilizations to stop the Synthetic plague from destroying the galaxy. I think he has better things to do than try to convince a dying human that he knows more than him /her. I mean, look at it from his perspective for a second.

If you went up to a farmer and asked him why he has to spray pesticides on the crop he would say it was to kill the bugs that ate the plants. If you asked him why he would say that that's what bugs do. If you asked why that was a problem he would say it was because if they ate the plants all the fruits would be lost and the farm would go bankrupt. If you told him you didn't believe all that BS and that you wanted facts he would probably give you a slap on the ear of the head and tell you to piss off and probably think you were an ignorant and precocious little git.

Because, if you dont provide any evidence to support your statement, when the rest of the game showed your statement might be wrong, it comes off as shitty writing.

For your farmer example, it would be like if all your life you saw pesticides only kill crops, then a farmer says they are good for them because he said so.

When you have spent your entire life seeing the opposite happen someone just telling you your wrong seems nonsensical.

SajuukKhar:

MomoElektra:
snip

and you know the supposedly "changed" ending was actually just clarification on the original ending. GASPS!!! Clarification made it better.

Again it wasn't the plot device that was the problem, but the lack of clarification.

Also the series was worshiped long before the movies came out, in fact that is why there was so much backlash BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE CARED BEFORE THE MOVIES CAME OUT.

Its exactly like Mass Effect 3. The massive amounts of people who worship the game arent caused by a changed ending.

My memory of those events is very different. The ending of the original series was butchered by fans, and the movies have a distinctively different ending (if one can call the first one having an ending). There are similar pieces, but the ending itself is a very different one.

Really? show me the words were he states "We The Reapers hate organic life"

Now you're being ridiculous.

All I recall is
-Organic life is chaotic
-We impose order on chaos
-You cannot stop us
-You cannot understand us

Now see, there is your problem. Your memory is failing.

The Reapers are actively trying to prevent organic life as a whole from being killed off forever.

Not a fact! How often will you do this? It is not fact!

Hitler and The Nazis tried to kill off any form of human that wasn't them.

You know, their propaganda mentioned something about preserving and saving the aryan race from being destroyed and/or marginalized. You're ignorance is astounding.

Trying to protect life as a whole =/= trying to pretect only one specific sub-set of life.

Both the Reapers and the Nazis thought they could decide which life form has a right to live and which does not. Both imposed their views on others. Both used genocide as a means of achieving their goal.

The Reapers =/= The Nazis.

Well obviously not, the one group sadly existed, the others are a figment of imagination in a video game. But there are similarities.

Seriously you really have some sort of Nazi paranoia or something

No, what I have is commonly called knowledge.

Actually since there is nothing that could ever prove them wrong they are in fact right by default.

Now that's just stupid. And a logical fallacy, btw.

The games could have shown more synthetics trying to eradicate organic life. But the only ones shown like that are, again, the Reapers themselves. So I don't really believe them.
But it would have been totally possible to show the Reapers being right. Only they weren't.

They have a unfalsifiable hypothesis

Yes, finally you get it. In the established ME universe the Reapers cannot be right.

If you cant prove there is another way to protect all life without killing anything you have no ability, and no ground to stand on, to make an argument that someone doing the ONLY KNOWN WAY to save things is wrong.

It has still to be established that all organic life is in danger.
The only prove for that lies in the words of the star kid, whom you believe and I don't.

Also as pointed out before the Reapers are not synthetic, the are organic synthetic hybrids.

Prove that.

SajuukKhar:

Revolutionaryloser:

Well, I don't see why he would have to prove anything. He's millions of years old and has had to destroy a myriad of organic and synthetic civilizations to stop the Synthetic plague from destroying the galaxy. I think he has better things to do than try to convince a dying human that he knows more than him /her. I mean, look at it from his perspective for a second.

If you went up to a farmer and asked him why he has to spray pesticides on the crop he would say it was to kill the bugs that ate the plants. If you asked him why he would say that that's what bugs do. If you asked why that was a problem he would say it was because if they ate the plants all the fruits would be lost and the farm would go bankrupt. If you told him you didn't believe all that BS and that you wanted facts he would probably give you a slap on the ear of the head and tell you to piss off and probably think you were an ignorant and precocious little git.

Because, if you dont provide any evidence to support your statement, when the rest of the game showed your statement might be wrong, it comes off as shitty writing.

For your farmer example, it would be like all your life you saw pesticides only kill crops, then a farmer says they are good for them because he said so.

No. It's like you seeing a single butterfly and assuming all bugs are dandy and then go up to the farmer to tell him that he's wasting his time killing bugs because bugs are beautiful and help pollinate plants.

I get it's a shift in perspective and a lot of people are caught off-guard by suddenly someone busting in and telling you all your effort was a waste of time because even if you could stop the synthetic plague once through diplomacy, it will just happen over and over again and one day you will fail and that when that day comes all life as we know it will end forever. I know it's jarring and it's painful because the game did so well to convince you that you were right and that you could protect your galaxy but that was the point. It's supposed to be hard to swallow and it's supposed to shatter everything you believed. That's what a twist ending is and that's what you should have probably expected might happen in a sci-fi epic, a genre notorious for ham-fisted twist endings.

well if what the god child said was true then they did it because if they didnt other synthetics would wipe out all life and then they wouldnt have any organics to harvest so really theyre competing with other synthetics and have created the cycle to ensure there are always a vast amount oforganics and their technology to harvest because they can harvest the ones around while ensuring there will beons in future in other words sustainability with the 50000 years there to ensure noone knows about them and arent prepared to stop them

MomoElektra:
snip

Actually the movie end Of Evangelion is considered to be "the outside of Shinji's head" events of the shows ending.
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No I am not being ridiculous because you claim Sovereign said he an The Reapers hate organic life, yet they never did and you have failed to bring up any examples of them saying they did.

You are making a claim, yet offering no evidence to support it. Ironic that you are hating on The Catalyst for the same thing.

also hypocritical.
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And yet you have provided nothing to prove that ISN'T fact either.

If you cant prove it isn't a fact you cant say it isn't, and cant tell people they are wrong for saying it is.
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And again the aryin race is ONE SPECIFIC SUBSET of life, the Reapers DONT TARGET ANY SPECIFIC SUBSET and instead KILL ALL LIFE.

Your inability to tell the difference between protecting only a specific subset of life and all life is frankly astoundingly pathetic and frankly scary.
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If by "common knowledge" you mean, "your own twisted views of how anything that resulting in genocide MUST be Nazi related" sure.
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The Reapers having a unfalsifiable hypothesis doesn't not make them wrong. It makes them impossible to prove wrong.

There is a very large difference which you seem to be unable to understand
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I could easily point to all of humanities past that proves lasting peace in impossible, and synthetics lack of needs for organics, and the eventuality of war to show that a organic synthetic war is inevitable.

Furthermore the lack of need of Organics by Synthetics makes is exceedingly possible that they might just decide to whie us out.
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http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reapers
first line
"The Reapers, known by the geth as the Old Machines, are a highly advanced machine race of synthetic/organic starships"

Revolutionaryloser:

No. It's like you seeing a single butterfly and assuming all bugs are dandy and then go up to the farmer to tell him that he's wasting his time killing bugs because bugs are beautiful and help pollinate plants.

I get it's a shift in perspective and a lot of people are caught off-guard by suddenly someone busting in and telling you all your effort was a waste of time because even if you could stop the synthetic plague once through diplomacy, it will just happen over and over again and one day you will fail and that when that day comes all life as we know it will end forever. I know it's jarring and it's painful because the game did so well to convince you that you were right and that you could protect your galaxy but that was the point. It's supposed to be hard to swallow and it's supposed to shatter everything you believed. That's what a twist ending is and that's what you should have probably expected might happen in a sci-fi epic, a genre notorious for ham-fisted twist endings.

I agree with you, I was pointing out why other people dont get it.

However just being told "your wrong" is still shitty writing, even if it is somewhat logically sound.

The Anti-spirals in Tengen Toppa at least told Simon why he was wrong, why his fight was meaningless, they showed him examples of past spiral races who tired to fight them and failed, which is why no one hated the ending.

All bioware would have had to do was put up some holoscreens of synthetics killing organics in the background, and The Catalyst saying something like "these are the thousands of races across time that have failed to stop Synthetics, many of them much more advanced then you. What hope could you possibly have?"

or something similar to give his position some credit. That right there could have possibly prevented a fuck ton of this controversy from happening.

The Reapers were originally built as a super AI capable of reasoning and making its own decisions while maintaining a neutral balance of all things, as time and technology advance they started to see the balance falling apart and they concluded a mass extermination would give the galaxy another chance, this in effect created a cycle in which the Reapers are constantly looking for peace and perfection among all the races and in order to better study and understand the new life forms they assimilate to whatever species develops through the 50K years, which for whatever reason they understand is the allotted time to achieve perfection, and being a computer at the end of the day their solution for everything always ends up being "master reset"

SajuukKhar:

MomoElektra:
snip

Actually the movie end Of Evangelion is considered to be "the outside of Shinji's head" events of the shows ending.

Relevance?

No I am not being ridiculous because you claim Sovereign said he an The Reapers hate organic life, yet they never did and you have failed to bring up any examples of them saying they did.

Pearls before swines. I'm just lazy.

You are making a claim, yet offering no evidence to support it. Ironic that you are hating on The Catalyst for the same thing.

also hypocritical.

Interesting. You had no problem with it when you did it.

And yet you have provided nothing to prove that ISN'T fact either.

Ehm, sure I did. There is still organic life in the galaxy. What more proof do you need?

If you cant prove it isn't a fact you cant say it isn't, and cant tell people they are wrong for saying it is.

It's impossible to prove a negative. But I can say that your position is only approved by the star child and disproved by game lore.

Wonder if your tactic works the other way around, too:

You can't prove I am wrong, so you must accept that I am right.
Does it work yet?

And again the aryin race is ONE SPECIFIC SUBSET of life, the Reapers DONT TARGET ANY SPECIFIC SUBSET and instead KILL ALL LIFE.

Ehm, I believe you made a little error here that will bite you in the butt.
The Reapers kill all technologically advanced organic life, which is a subset of all life.
And if, as you say, the Reapers kill all life you cannot at the same time have them saving all (organic) life. Choose wisely.

Your inability to tell the difference between protecting only a specific subset of life and all life is frankly astoundingly pathetic and frankly scary.

I have no problem with that thought as such, I mean it's not difficult. I consider it barbaric and uneconomic, and stupid and what not. But I can tell the difference. So what?

If by "common knowledge" you mean, "your own twisted views of how anything that resulting in genocide MUST be Nazi related" sure.

Where do you pull the "related" from? I never said it was related to the Nazis. I said there are similarities, in thought and action.

The Reapers having a unfalsifiable hypothesis doesn't not make them wrong. It makes them impossible to prove wrong.

Yes, no objection. It also makes you defending an unfalsifiable hypothesis that leads to genocide. You defend genocide (if fictional). Now who's scary?

There is a very large difference which you seem to be unable to understand

Name it.

I could easily point to all of humanities past that proves lasting peace in impossible, and synthetics lack of needs for organics, and the eventuality of war to show that a organic synthetic war is inevitable.

If you could you would have done already and you have been pointed out for the flaws in your logic many times, by several people. So I don't think you can.

Furthermore the lack of need of Organics by Synthetics makes is exceedingly possible that they might just decide to whie us out.

Synthetics need organics to invent them. Why should they hate their creator?

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Reapers
first line
"The Reapers, known by the geth as the Old Machines, are a highly advanced machine race of synthetic/organic starships"

Ah, well. So the only group wiping out organic life is not the synthetics, but a synthetic/organic hybrid? Interesting way to still prove my point that the Reapers are the problem, not organics or synthetics.

The only thing that even comes close to evidence in favor of the Reapers is statements from the Reapers.

This would not hold up in court.

Think about it, you're about to shank an entire civilization in the gut for it's shoes. What do you tell it?

"Oh yeah. We, like, need to do this. Totally. All sorts of destiny and shit up in here. You wouldn't understand."

MomoElektra:
snip

It is relevant because you tried to make out the movie as being a different ending to the shows ending, which it wasn't. Or have you forgotten what you yourself typed?

Hypocrite

Except I haven't done it

Only because The reapers have prevented synthetics from killing all organics between then and now. So the fact that organic life still exists can be used to prove the reaper's cycle works.

Excet nothing in the games lore proves the Catalyst wrong. Making peace with the geth does not ensure the peace will last, that the geth wont kill all organics one day, that future synthetics can be reasoned with, that future synthetics wont try to kill everything. there is literally NOT A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE that proves the reapers wrong.

The difference is that the reapers do not pick their targets based on hate, or a belief that they are somehow worse then The Reapers, or a belief that primitive organic life is better then advanced organic life. Which is something the Nazis did

You seem to not be able to tell the difference based on your repeated assertions that Reapers = Nazis

dont even try to claim you didn't say the Reapers were like nazis or that their ideals weren't related to them, because you did.

Defending genocide in fiction shows nothing about my beliefs of it, or things related to it, IRL, so I dont see how it would make me scary. Beyond that all options in the Me series lead to some genocide eventually, its what level of severity you want that is in debate

Being able to prove someone wrong means you can debunk their statement as being not true. For a unfalsifiable hypothesis it is impossible to prove it not true, thus you cannot prove them wrong, and thus you can't claim that they are. The fact that it realizes on a fallacy is irrelevant. If someone were to say there is a invisible, intangible horse that cant be observed by any means in the middle of a room you cannot prove them wrong and cant say that they are wrong, and you cant say someone who believes that they are right is wrong.

Except no one has disproved my statement of lasting peace being impossible is wrong, no one has disproved my statement that there would eventually be some reason, be is resources, a hate crime, or something else, that would eventually cuase a war, and no one has disproved that even if THAT war is one there wouldn't be a war in the future organics lose. NOTHING has been disproved.

Because organics are naturally intolerant of anything that isn't them, and said intolerance leads to hate and violence against things they dont like, and given enough violence synthetics may eventually conclude that despite being created organics, said organic aggressions is too dangerous and unpredictable for synthetics to be able to reasonably secure their kind from violence

Except I haven't proved your point at all. If anything the fact that organics still live could be used as evidence for the Reapers cycle working, and thus them being right.

SajuukKhar:
snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.

MomoElektra:

SajuukKhar:
snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.[/quot

MomoElektra:
[quote="SajuukKhar" post="9.365295.14270975"]snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.

The ending actually made something good come out of Jack and Jill...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ald_TeYZDw

Because Ponies.

Yassen:
Would make sense, maybe their bio-synthetic material tends to degrade and they need organics to "buff up" and stay intact.

Which is fine, provided you ignore canon.

But quite frankly they don't need a reason, least one they feel the need to share with us.

Which is fine as long as you're not telling a story with intended answers.

That made the Reapers both mysterious and terrifying, like they existed on a plane of thinking that we couldn't comprehend and were so much more powerful than us, like they treated us how we treat ants.

Or they just made us think "Fridge Logic," because that's what it was.

Even worse when the God-Child was introduced, because it indicates they are designed by someone who is ostensibly superior, yet both illogical and willing to deem you worthy of communication and explanation.

EDIT: You know what made the Reapers mysterious and terrifying? A lack of information and BIG HONKING SPACE SQUIDS. Higher thinking was unnecessary and poorly done.

For sport of course! See who can squash more tiny humans!

The reapers did it because they were programmed to. By the startwat. Because he is the VI of a 5 year old with flawed logic.

They are more like collectors, except they collect whole races and make them reapers. I guess they see it as saving older races although they have yet to say if races agreed to it or are able to communicate freely as a reaper. Can a reaper speak for the race its made of? Or is the race just the bricks and mortar and nothing else?

We, as organics, cannot understand nor comprehend the reason for why Reapers do it.

We are nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident.
The Reapers simply [i]are[i/].
The pinnacle of evolution and existence.
They have no beginning. They have no end.

WE CANNOT EVEN GRASP THE NATURE OF THEIR EXISTENCE!

It would have been interesting if they hadn't told the reason why Reapers go kill frenzy every 50k years. To me, the Citadel could have been the Reaper collective, and when Citadel is blown apart Reapers would just shut down or be critically weakened.

it takes the reapers 50,000 years to fully calculate Pi.....they don't like the answer so they harvest all advanced civilizations that are aware of Pi to see if they have got a better answer. with the new cycle harvested the reapers think they may now have key to a good answer to Pi. so they spend 50,000 years calculating with the new harvested civilizations. they return each cycle thinking maybe this time we will find the key to our problem.

Revolutionaryloser:
The only way is to set up the Mass Relays so they can keep tabs on all advanced lifeforms and take them out before their technology reaches the event horizon where they could create synthetics stronger then the Reapers.

That really does sound a lot less like consideration and sympathy for organic lifeforms and more like fear of being annihilated.

That's what it boils down to, isn't it? Fear. The reapers are afraid that some day, someone will be powerful enough to kill them, so they wipe out all advanced life.

But hey, they still need to buff up now and then, so they need to keep some organics alive to harvest. You know, harvest, like they explicitly said they did!

But, of course, one day Shepard turned up and held a gun to their head. All of a sudden, it's all pseudo-philosophy and bullshit about chaos and order and all that shit Palpatine went on about, and we sure as hell didn't believe him either!

To me it is like I, Robot.

Assigned to protect a particular system, their programing tells them to cull any threats. After doing this for millenia, they come to a pattern.

10 Kill all advanced civilizations
20 Sleep
30 GOTO 10

Elcarsh:

Revolutionaryloser:
The only way is to set up the Mass Relays so they can keep tabs on all advanced lifeforms and take them out before their technology reaches the event horizon where they could create synthetics stronger then the Reapers.

That really does sound a lot less like consideration and sympathy for organic lifeforms and more like fear of being annihilated.

That's what it boils down to, isn't it? Fear. The reapers are afraid that some day, someone will be powerful enough to kill them, so they wipe out all advanced life.

But hey, they still need to buff up now and then, so they need to keep some organics alive to harvest. You know, harvest, like they explicitly said they did!

But, of course, one day Shepard turned up and held a gun to their head. All of a sudden, it's all pseudo-philosophy and bullshit about chaos and order and all that shit Palpatine went on about, and we sure as hell didn't believe him either!

I think it boils down to shitty programming. They were programmed to end the synthetic plague and protect organic life. Once they achieved that they were just left twiddling their thumbs. They started finding more inventive and effective ways of ending the plagues and began to realize it was a futile effort, an unwinnable war. Thus, a system was slowly born where they created the Mass Relay system to control activity throughout the galaxy and eliminated the root of the problem to ensure success: advanced organic civilizations.

They're like gollems. They were given one shitty, vague instruction and they kept on doing it for millions of years until they became the Gods of life and death. I also hypothesize that they hate the guts of organic life because they are practically their slaves, destined to serve for all eternity, incapable of free thought or higher aspirations of any sort other than: protect organic life in the galaxy. Maybe they get a sadistic satisfaction out of genocide. That would explain why they always talk like they're in a foul mood all the time.

Suomimaster:
We, as organics, cannot understand nor comprehend the reason for why Reapers do it.

We are nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident.
The Reapers simply [i]are[i/].
The pinnacle of evolution and existence.
They have no beginning. They have no end.

WE CANNOT EVEN GRASP THE NATURE OF THEIR EXISTENCE!

It would have been interesting if they hadn't told the reason why Reapers go kill frenzy every 50k years. To me, the Citadel could have been the Reaper collective, and when Citadel is blown apart Reapers would just shut down or be critically weakened.

I think that's like the perfect set-up to the universe's largest joke. We can't understand it because it's so silly. I like to imagine infuriated Reapers trying to reason with ancient civilizations that they have the only solution and then the ancient civilizations are all like "But what about free will? Don't our choices matter? Isn't this totally pointless if we die either way?" and the Reapers are getting more and more angry with the ancient civilizations' whinging and whining about how there's no closure and that every ending is exactly the same so in the end the Reapers just killed all of them in one massive genocide.

Easy.

They want to exterminate all life that has developed to the point of being capable of creating AI.

They do this to give other life a chance in the galaxy (NOT to make sure YOUR kind of life survives, just ANY kind of "intelligent" organic life).

But why destroy I hear you ask? Well technically they aren't as much destroying as they are storing the information.

I thought the Reapers came from some elder race which overcame an Instrumentality, just as the one in Evangelion, but in a spaceship instead. Then, since that Reaper was the only one of its kind it started to feel lonely (weird, since it is actually billions of minds fused together) and tried to create itself some company. Thus, the Reaper "race" began to develop, being their life cycle a 50k year long harvesting of spacefaring races.

ChrisRedfield92:

Why wouldn't they get "a chance at life" if the reapers didn't kill them? Humans didn't go extinct when they first discovered the relays, they just joined the ranks of other older space traveling races...

The logic is a stupid solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Have you even played the game? The gist is that Organics, once advanced enough, will inevitably create a race of synthetics which will rise against them and WOULD exterminate all organic life WERE IT NOT FOR THE REAPERS. You see, the reapers harvest the organic races that are advanced enough to create synthetics, while leaving those more primitive alone. Its all to guarantee that life will continue, instead of being completely exterminated by the Synthetics.

I have no idea what your comment was trying to prove or put forth.

SajuukKhar:
Really? show me the words were he states "We The Reapers hate organic life"

In as many words? Reading between the lines sheds some light on the Reapers attitudes.

"Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident"
"You exist because we allow it, and you will end because we demand it"
"We are infinite. Millions of years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotton, we will endure"
"The time of our return is coming. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world. You cannot escape your doom"
"Your words are as empty as your future. I am the vanguard of your destruction"

Really, the attitude presented doesn't exactly mesh well with the idea beings which value organic life. One of the introductory lines for them flat out trivializes it, and the later ones come out as outright antagonistic towards it. At best, the Reapers come off as an abusive boyfriend who hits you and then tells you its for your own good. At worst, it comes off as something from one of George Carlin's standup routines about God[1]

Harbinger doesn't come off much better and its dialogue very much suggests that the Reapers don't care about organic life, they care about useful organic life.
"Quarian. Considered due to cybernetic augmentation. Weakened immune system too debilitating."
"Drell. Useless. Insufficient numbers."
"Human. Viable possibility. Aggression factor useful if controlled."
"Human. Viable possibility. Impressive genetic malliability."
"Human. Viable possibility. Impressive technical potential."
"Human. Viable possibility if emotional drives are subjugated."
"Human. Viable possibility. Great biotic potential."
"Asari. Reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness."
"Salarian. Insufficient lifespan. Fragile genetic structure."
"Krogan. Sterilized race. Potential wasted."
"Turian. You're considered...too primative."
"Geth. An annoyance. Limited utility."
"We are limitless. You are bacteria."
"Your worlds will be our laboratories."
"You are vermin."
"They are vermin."
"Take what is useful. Destroy the rest."

Again, not exactly presenting the Reapers as if they're concerned with organic life in a general sense, just the ones they can use.

[1] You know. The bit where he goes on about how 'religion' (his phrasing, not mine) claims that God's looking down at everyone all the time waiting for them to screw up so that he can send them to Hell for an eternity of torture, and then comes the punchline "But he loves you". If it's not ringing a bell, you can find the routine here

The Reapers do it for fun. Shepard's just a party pooper.

After thinking about it, my theory is this:

Rather than being the creations of a "First Race", the proto-Reapers were the creations of a First-Race-contemporaneous "Second Race" as weapons of war to be used against the more powerful First Race. (For this theory to work, suppose for the sake of argument that the First Race is somehow more militarily powerful without necessarily being the most technologically advanced; think about the difference between the turians and the salarians) However, as the Reapers are true AI's and thus capable of independant decision-making, the Second Race needed to 'indoctrinate' their Reaper creations to believe that it was necessary to cull the First Race; the First Race were too advanced, they were keeping other species and civilisations from being able to naturally evolve and flourish. This was made core programming to the Reapers, something so fundamental to them that they have never considered changing it - that we know of, at least. We know they upgrade their hardware, but we've never really seen the Reapers upgrading their own software.

The Reapers followed their creators programs and sure enough devastated the First Race, giving the Second Race freedom. How do they do this? Indoctrination. The First Race was too mighty a force to fight directly, so the Second Race created the Reapers to turn the First Race against themselves; this strategic pattern will go on for millions of years, softening up the target with internal strife before a decisive strike against population and political centres, adapting First Race technology (biology and mentality) into themselves to ensure victory in all theatres, as well as allowing them to make up for any losses suffered in the war. The Mass Relays are seeded to distribute Reaper units across the Galaxy, piggy-backing one to the next with the Citadel/Catalyst acting as a central 'co-ordinator'.

Fifty thousand years pass. The Reapers go hibernate, their mission accomplished; they're the ultimate WMD, capable of galactic genocide and thus no-one wants them to get used. The descendants of the Second Race (for the sake of this theory, let's call them the Third Race) have spread across the galaxy, having taken prime position. Which is when the Reapers wake up again. Their programming has started up again; the Third Race is no longer identifiable as the Second Race (culturally and perhaps biologically) that created the Reapers in the first place. But they've set themselves up as the target now; they're the most advanced civilisation in the galaxy, keeping others from developing. So the Reapers do what comes naturally to them; indoctrinate, assimilate and destroy. Then retreat to Dark Space and start scanning the universe for signs that it's time to get back to work.

As the Reapers assimilate organics, the existential fear of synthetics they were feeling at the time imprints upon their collective consciousness; while retaining intelligence and independence, they can't quite gel this with their core ideology/programming, as well as their self-aware status as synthetics, causing them to suffer a kind of cognitive dissonance. Their self-justification for their own existence changes to become simultaneously organic cultural and evolutionary equality AND the prevention of AI-genocide. It's like the ghost of a murder victim possessing the murderer, but neither quite being aware of the true identity of the other. I don't think the Reapers are aware of the paradoxes they've been building right into themselves. Their core programming, their entire raison d'etre, remains and they have no reason to change it because they don't see why it doesn't really fit with what's happening now.

In this theory, I don't think fifty thousand years actually is a hard and fast 'rule' the Reapers have for when the next Harvest begins. I think it's just a sufficient amount of time to guarantee that a civilisation advanced enough to trigger the Reaper's programming; they wait for galactic civilisation to reach a certain standard, perhaps something to do with the amount of space occupied by a small number of species, or how often the races are using the relays. I think it's a rule of thumb rather than something written into them. After all, I don't think they'd risk the possibility of some particularly fast-developing species (such as humanity) popping up and getting to such a point that when the 50K mark comes around, the Reapers find themselves completely outclassed.

My interpretation at least.

MomoElektra:

SajuukKhar:
snip

I have to, again, stop talking to you because it is impossible. You change the meaning of words as you please, you twist words and content as you please, you keep mentioning things as established fact when they aren't and you bring up stuff that isn't relevant.

It's tiring for me, and frankly, sooner or later a waste of time and nerves.

I get the impression you don't even understand what I'm saying. Nor that you'd want to. I get the impression you want to feel superior for understanding this bad writing so you pull stuff out of your arse to make up some half-assed logic no one but you can really get.

Yes, it really reminds me of Lost. Same things happened there.

I dont change the meaning of words at all.

And I do get what you saying because you try to force feed it at every turn "The reapers using genocide is not an acceptable option and makes them like Nazis"

Funny becase Lost had a ending I actually enjoyed.

Sirron Kcuch:
I thought the Reapers came from some elder race which overcame an Instrumentality, just as the one in Evangelion, but in a spaceship instead. Then, since that Reaper was the only one of its kind it started to feel lonely (weird, since it is actually billions of minds fused together) and tried to create itself some company. Thus, the Reaper "race" began to develop, being their life cycle a 50k year long harvesting of spacefaring races.

that would have been a cool motive.

Although in instrumentality individuality doesn't eixst, those billions of mind become one, so there could be loneliness.

@Leodesian. Fascinating theory, though it becomes a little jumbled as it goes on. However, you know what would have been even better? If Bioware would have actually explained anything in the ending so we didn't need to make theories on the first place... I mean, seriously, they dumped an exposition-fairy (starchild) right into the middle of the ending, they might as well made him, you know, explain things...? -.-

Seriously, I have seen a dozen or so really creative and sometimes even ingenious explanations about the Reapers' origins and motivations, but in the end they are all just theories, and even though one can piece together a somewhat satisfying explanation to the "Wait, you kill organics to stop the killing themselves?" question, they are still not canon and we have no idea what really was going on. I really hope the "Epilogue DLC" will shed some light on these questions as well...

@SajuukKhar: Errr... Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, there is no "collective consciousness" in the Reaper bodies. When harvesting, they are just preserving the genetic material of the race, not its thoughts or culture. In that regard, the instrumentality angle kind of falls flat... So yes, cool motive, but not really feasible.

Gabe, remember that the ending was rushed by Bioware's own admission due to the original script being leaked. In the original, the Reapers DID have a "collective consciousness" reasoning behind their harvesting; that's why they take the most advanced civilisations and make Reapers out of them. They were trying to create Reapers intelligent and capable enough of fixing the dark matter crisis that was originally going to be the main 'bad guy'.

But I disagree that the Reapers should have had their origins explained at all - I think explaining their motives a little is acceptable, but not necessarary. I think leaving the Reapers still partially shrouded in mystery is necessary for them to remain interesting; like Sovereign says, they simply ARE and they don't feel the need to explain or introduce themselves to you. This is really basic storytelling - the answer will never ben as interesting as the question.

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