Borderlands 2 (Cause Mass Effet 3 Is To Mainstream)

So with Borderlands 2 coming out in September I felt that I had to bring everyone down by saying that Borderlands was kinda crap to begin with and really does not deserve a sequel.

The fact that they tried to sell the game as an FPSRPG was my first clue that the game wasn't going to be very good as this type of game already exists (see the vastly better Fallout series for example) and this really wasn't anything new, despite what the marketing tried to tell us.

The so called RPG elements weren't even very good. There were no choices other than shoot the thing or don't shoot the thing. Character customisation was non existent other than the perks which made it easier to kill the already piss weak enemies and the whole game was a freaking grind. "Collect a hundred of x" is not fun to do in any game and the fact that the enemies respawn once you leave the area also pissed me off because I didn't feel like I was having any actual effect on the world and having to clear them out again felt more like a chore than anything else.

Their only seems to be about a nano second between tapping and holding a button in this game which leads to some very infuriating moments when I found myself chipping away at an enemy with a "level one pea shooter" that I didn't want to pick up in the first place. Here's an idea. In order to pick up all the ammo in one place you hold down 'A' and in order to pick up the gun you use the 'LB' or something, does that make sense?

So that people know before making any angry posts about how wrong I am I played part of a DLC (The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned) and a couple of hours of the main campaign. However I don't believe that this makes my statements any less valid, if I don't have fun within the first few hours of gameplay then I see no reason to stick with the game. The story wasn't ingrosing, the fetch quests were a grind, the enemies posed very little threat, the controls were annoying and overly complicated, the role playing elements were poor and the whole thing was just kind of shit.

You are correct. Borderlands wasn't very good. If games were food, I'd call it plain dry bread. Didn't do anything special and wasn't very fun, but didn't really do anything wrong, and for some reason I kept wanting to eat it even though there are tastier things. I was set to completely ignore Borderlands 2 until I saw this: http://www.destructoid.com/borderlands-2-dlc-mechromancer-class-revealed-225452.phtml Now I'm gonna keep my eye on it, because that's pretty dang cool.

MaCaulay:
However I don't believe that this makes my statements any less valid, if I don't have fun within the first few hours of gameplay then I see no reason to stick with the game.

Your points are definitely valid. In fact, I'm in complete agreement with you. If I buy a game, and I play it for a few hours and don't have fun, then there's no reason for me to stick with it.

However, I can also acknowledge that my reasons for not sticking with it aren't universal. Something that's a fairly major problem to me might not even matter to anyone else. Some players out there like kill X number of mob grinding quests and gunning down a bajillion enemies without any personal threat, and Borderlands is probably perfect for them.

Frankly, I think Borderlands was marketed wrong. I played through it, and I never really felt like it was a hybrid of FPS and RPG. I felt like it was more like a hybrid of FPS and loot-oriented dungeon crawlers like the Diablo games.

As far as what I think about the game personally? Meh. I didn't think it was bad, but I really didn't think it was good either. Very meh. But there was a lot about the game that I felt was on the verge of making it a good game, and for that reason, I think it absolutely does deserve a sequel.

Tuesday Night Fever:
As far as what I think about the game personally? Meh. I didn't think it was bad, but I really didn't think it was good either. Very meh. But there was a lot about the game that I felt was on the verge of making it a good game, and for that reason, I think it absolutely does deserve a sequel.

Yeah I got that as well, though I plain think it was bad, especially the PC version. Lazy and boring visual design, awful AI, repetitive environments and enemies, guns without a real feel to them, looting that felt more like a hassle than something worthwhile and an online component, the heart and soul of that game, that was plain broken thanks to GameSpy.

But.

I could see the idea behind it. An idea I still like and support. Borderlands 2 seems to fix a lot of the issues I had with the first game, sort of like how Ubisoft tackled the Assassin's Creed franchise after the very experimental first game. I'm still quite cautious about Borderlands 2, but if they can go down the AC route I'd be more than happy to support them.

I loved Borderlands, I'm currently playing through it for the third time and it's the only game I've ever bought DLC for. I can't wait for the sequel to come out.

I thought Skyrim sucked.

Conclusion: People like different things, if you don't like the idea of it getting a sequel then don't buy it.

The secret to enjoying Borderlands is to remember that it's Diablo with guns and occasional moments of funny. The main problem with borderlands is that the guns weren't weird enough. From what I've seen, the sequel is at least trying to fix the second part.

EDIT: Also, the fact that the game is an FPS that remembers that mobility + enemy variety (at least more than Call of Medal: Battlefield of Honor 3) = fun endears it to me quite a bit.

Yeah, gotta say I don't think Borderlands NEEDS a sequel, but at the same time I won't begrudged them for making one.

Specifically because Borderlands made Gearbox a shit-ton of money. Even THEY didn't expect it to explode like it did, but people love that little dancing clap-trap and his moonwalk---well, moonrolling. As such they started pumping out DLC for it and people just kept gobbling it up, begging for more.

So they decided to give them more and thus we have BL 2.

I could reiterate pretty much everything the OP says about the game being a repetative grind and such and I think we can all agree that it's not "questing" when your quest is "Go to the cave and kill the scorpion things" and the follow up quest is "go back to that same cave and kill them again, but this time pick up some crystals while you're there". But I'll be damned if people didn't find it to be crack and I actually got sucked in as well...though I blame that on having 2 friends that already had the game and were more than happy to power-level me. And by the time I joined up the Zombie Island DLC was already out and I still say that's one of the best DLC expansions for any game that I've ever played...the intro and ending video/narrations were fucking hilarious!

In summation, like I said, I don't think BL NEEDS a sequel...there's not really anywhere they can go with the story, didn't leave any hints that there'd be more story, etc. But do I hold it against the company for making another one? Not at all. There's a strange magic surrounding BL that makes you realized "Damnit, this game really isn't that great. I've been shooting the same face-painted fuckers for hours now....WHY CAN'T I STOP PLAYING THIS?!"

So will I be picking up the sequel? Well seeing as how I'd have a number of friends to play with, I'll begrudgingly say "most likely". :P

RJ 17:
There's a strange magic surrounding BL that makes you realized "Damnit, this game really isn't that great. I've been shooting the same face-painted fuckers for hours now....WHY CAN'T I STOP PLAYING THIS?!"

Reinforcement on a variable ratio schedule, man.

That said, the shooter bit is actually pretty fun, so I don't begrudge the game too much for trying to use operant conditioning on me.

I'm going to say something that might get me flamed into oblivion - but borderlands wasn't a good game. The thing is, I had so much damn fun that I just don't care. If the sequel continues the trend, I ain't going to complain.

I personally have loved Gearbox's games since the Half-Life 1 expansions were made.

I cant really say what it was but something about Borderlands was just so damn fun, and I will totally play Borderlands 2 even if it is like the first one.

To say that a game sucks and doesn't deserve a sequel can apply to a variety of of games but this one could be interesting in my point of view. I agree it should not be called a fpsrpg because if any game was close to that it would be fallout 3 (my favourite game). But im still looking forward to it.

MaCaulay:
So with Borderlands 2 coming out in September I felt that I had to bring everyone down by saying that Borderlands was kinda crap to begin with and really does not deserve a sequel.

The fact that they tried to sell the game as an FPSRPG was my first clue that the game wasn't going to be very good as this type of game already exists (see the vastly better Fallout series for example) and this really wasn't anything new, despite what the marketing tried to tell us.

The so called RPG elements weren't even very good. There were no choices other than shoot the thing or don't shoot the thing. Character customisation was non existent other than the perks which made it easier to kill the already piss weak enemies and the whole game was a freaking grind. "Collect a hundred of x" is not fun to do in any game and the fact that the enemies respawn once you leave the area also pissed me off because I didn't feel like I was having any actual effect on the world and having to clear them out again felt more like a chore than anything else.

Their only seems to be about a nano second between tapping and holding a button in this game which leads to some very infuriating moments when I found myself chipping away at an enemy with a "level one pea shooter" that I didn't want to pick up in the first place. Here's an idea. In order to pick up all the ammo in one place you hold down 'A' and in order to pick up the gun you use the 'LB' or something, does that make sense?

So that people know before making any angry posts about how wrong I am I played part of a DLC (The Zombie Island of Dr. Ned) and a couple of hours of the main campaign. However I don't believe that this makes my statements any less valid, if I don't have fun within the first few hours of gameplay then I see no reason to stick with the game. The story wasn't ingrosing, the fetch quests were a grind, the enemies posed very little threat, the controls were annoying and overly complicated, the role playing elements were poor and the whole thing was just kind of shit.

How does the fist game being crap not warrant a second go with BL2? Is there only a finite number of games slots available? we must carefully pick and choose which games are allowed to spawn into existence? No?

Well then lets hope BL2 isn't crap like the 1st one. If it is, then don't buy it. There is an interesting enough story about how Pandora came to be, to keep the flame lit so to speak, with Borderlands games to keep my hopes up that one day there will be a good BL game.

Had I not played DC Universe Online, I might not have realized what type of RPG it was trying to do. It's a MMORPG minus the MMO. Sort of a CORPG, where you go around collecting x number of items, killing y number of baddies, and engaging in massive battles against bosses with ridiculous amounts of health. All while keeping a close eye on the little numbers by your guns, as you constantly switch them out.

I picked up the Game Of The Year edition and had a fair amount of fun with it. Biggest issue was that it simply didn't offer up enough diversity of enemies, locations, or even weapons (while it had a bazillion guns, they only offered really standard options). The story (what little there was) was amusing, and was actually quite good in the last couple of DLCs, which entertained me even with some really, really annoying level design (The Secret Armory one actually made a joke of the really confusing lay-out of a cave, while the Robot Revolution seemed to specialize in making you search for tunnels to reach waypoints).

If the trailer for Borderland 2 is any indication, it looks like they're offering up the kind of diversity I wanted, while providing an amusing story in tune with the DLCs. Cautiously optomistic that this one will improve upon the first and possibly be a spot of fun.

Was Borderlands a great game? god no, it had tons of flaws but I still label it as my favorite game of 2009 and my favorite shooter as of late for a lot of reasons.

First of, it ditched the realistic look and went for cell shade, it wasn't perfect but far more refreshing to see, even if it was just a more rich color of brown.

Second of all, I hate army shooters mainly because it took the fun out of the weapons, now every game has the same guns which killed it. Borderlands came back with ridiculous again, smg with round barrel clips, Revolvers that shot shotgun shells, it was a blast.

The fact that the iron sights were completely optional, it is one of the few games that have done this properly. You can go through the entire game without using them, they were their only if you found it more comfortable(which I do).

The humor was great especially with the DLC, Gearbox has probably released the best DLC for any game. They always added ton of content, except for Moxie's Dome yet I played that the most. It was great that the game didn't take itself very seriously, added some contrast to all the games that were trying to be epic.

I never had the problem you had with accidentally picking up guns, that is a shame, and I think gearbox tweaked the scaling as it is a lot harder from release date, you can run in bad-asses pretty quick now.

Strange you had problems with the controls in general, Borderlands gun play wasn't the greatest but it at least felt smooth, It was never hard to get my aimer where I wanted it even when things picked up in pace.

I think you and me went into it looking for different things though, You went into it as an RPG and I went into it as a shooter and as a shooter, it is competent, great even, though you are right, as an RPG, it is very weak.

The only thing I don't respect though is how you say it doesn't deserve a sequel, all games deserve a sequel, especially ones like Borderlands that nailed a lot of good things right but was flawed as a whole package. Sequels allow developers to work on the things that didn't work in the first and try to fix them. Gearbox from what I seen defiantly did that, The art style is much better, the guns have more variety along with the enemies, the game world looks gorgeous now having much more variety. The animation I think received the biggest boost.

Borderlands 2 is my most anticipated just from what I have seen, it actually looks and feels like a sequel unlike a lot of franchises that receive 1.5 or has thing streamlined to sell to a bigger audience. Gearbox knows they have an audience and are just making a better game which get kudos in my books.

my life would be lesser were it not for Claptrap.

Borderlands was not the best game but it was solid. The guns, while not completely as crazy as they said were still varied enough to keep me interested. The humor was good but not overbearing. The controls were tight and responsive. Sure the boss sucked but the rest of the game was challenging and enjoyable. The foes had just enough variety to keep stuff interesting.

I'd give Borderlands' single player a 3/10 - but I'd give it's co-op a 9/10. Borderlands has one of the most fun co-op adventures I've ever played. I can't even put my finger on exactly what it is that adding a friend to Borderlands that makes it great. It's not even because I think adding a friend to any game makes it better. I can only think of a handful of games (L4D, Halo, Splinter Cell) that makes co-op reallllly fun.

-It's basic and it knows it. The game doesn't get mucked down with story because that would drag the co-op ooooouuuuutttt. You just go and it's great.

Really excited for Borderlands 2.

I think you are being too unduly harsh.

Yes points of Borderlands were bland, but it wasn't bad. Single player, that game was on the boring side, but with a group of 3 to 4 well coordinated players... pure bliss, a blast of fun.

Borderlands is one of those games that despite its flaws, had a lots of potential pending if the right advice is followed.

On top of that, at least most of the DLC's felt like they were done right. (and I say most).

Borderlands at least deserves a 2nd chance.

Flailing Escapist:
I'd give Borderlands' single player a 3/10 - but I'd give it's co-op a 9/10. Borderlands has one of the most fun co-op adventures I've ever played. I can't even put my finger on exactly what it is that adding a friend to Borderlands that makes it great. It's not even because I think adding a friend to any game makes it better. I can only think of a handful of games (L4D, Halo, Splinter Cell) that makes co-op reallllly fun.

-It's basic and it knows it. The game doesn't get mucked down with story because that would drag the co-op ooooouuuuutttt. You just go and it's great.

Really excited for Borderlands 2.

couldn't agree more. tried to play blands alone and it bored the hell out of me. then my buddy picked up the controller, and BOOM! we played that sucker all the way to max leveling and bought all the dlc. it works so perfectly as a co-op game and i don't really know why. i love the loot system(i'm a loot whore), the humor, the graphics, the enemies and the controls...i can't pinpoint exactly why i loved it so damn much, all i know is me and my buddy are really fucking excited for the sequel.

by all means, yeah i agree borderlands was not a very good game, RPG elements werent very in depth, PC port was done quite poorly, not a good or captivating story, tons of fetch quests, lots of brownish landscapes.... but i absolutely loved it. conclusion.. i love bad games? no. It had something that made me care about the game and overlook the plenty of reasons to not enjoy it. the Multiplayer was good fun, I really liked the personalities of the NPCs, i actually really like the aesthetic style (despite the brownish landscapes) had a great time playing with friends, i was oddly compelled to look for better weapons and weapon styles. and just in general it was an enjoyable experience to just chill with friends and shoot stuff trade weapons and continue shooting stuff. the key for me (if you haven't guessed) was that i couldn't play it single player. it didn't hold my attention and enjoyment for nearly as long if i was playing it on my own.

but honestly to each their own. there are plenty of games that apparently millions of people buy and really enjoy that i just have absolutely no interest in. and that's ok with me, whatevs i don't loose any sleep cause someone else likes a game i don't or that someone hates a game i like.

I liked the game, it was kinda cool. First person Diablo with guns. Second looks cool... but then I saw this bit of news (if what little they gave me was to be believed) that they're talking about releasing a new extra class... as DLC. It's months before the game is out, and they're already talking about DLC. That's the kinda stupid shit I don't like. Might give this one a pass, or wait until they release the inevitable 'super deluxe got's all the shit edition'.

Gonswell:
couldn't agree more. tried to play blands alone and it bored the hell out of me. then my buddy picked up the controller, and BOOM! we played that sucker all the way to max leveling and bought all the dlc. it works so perfectly as a co-op game and i don't really know why. i love the loot system(i'm a loot whore), the humor, the graphics, the enemies and the controls...i can't pinpoint exactly why i loved it so damn much, all i know is me and my buddy are really fucking excited for the sequel.

Exactly, me and the buddy I co-oped Borderlands with haven't pre-ordered 2 yet but we've already decided we're going 50/50 for it. We're going to enjoy the fuck out of it.

The original game wasn't perfect, but it had a lengthy campaign and was fun to play in co-op. I really enjoyed it and often want to go back through it but nobody I know is playing anymore or I really don't have time for a game of that length at the time.

I did happen to enjoy the game, but will agree to its problems of repetition and some strange difficulty scaling. Though being a big MMO player it really wasn't new to me. I did really enjoy the loot system though which felt really neat to get a unique gun that no one else had.

Definitely a better with friends though.

The problem is the game was made with ONLY Co-op in mind. So where some battles would be balanced with more people in single player there is no balance whatsoever. I played it twice as Lilith and Roland and both times had situations of no balance. In one particular encounter where as Lilith they would do so much damage she couldn't do enough damage to survive as roland I had managed to basically get infinite ammo and just rocket everything to death. Eventually as both the game just got boring for me. I did have fun with it but there was still way too many problems with it. I might buy the next game but the problem is I have no one to play anything with otherwise I would be doing the co-op for Space Marine.

MaCaulay:
snip

Well, I would first off say something like, "Ones man's trash is another man's treasure" or something that basically says, that its just your opinion, and that I personally love the game, much more than I originally thought I would.

Secondly, I do agree with you on the fact that its not really an FPSRPG. Like someone said earlier, its more a FPS/Diablo dungeon crawler hybrid. Yes its repetitive in grinding. Im a firm believer that Gearbox dropped the ball when they gave us four unique characters, with no back story save a single paragraph in the official prima guide.

But the felling you get when you had a particular Combat Rifle, one which youve had for some time because there just hasnt been anything better. Than you find a weapon chest, you open it, and you find a Combat rifle that puts the one you've been using to shame. Thats what I love about it. The idea that there may always be that one weapon you find that just better, thats what makes me continue to play the game. I always go back to playing Borderlands every so often. Its just mindless fun, thats all that can be said.

80Maxwell08:
The problem is the game was made with ONLY Co-op in mind. So where some battles would be balanced with more people in single player there is no balance whatsoever. I played it twice as Lilith and Roland and both times had situations of no balance. In one particular encounter where as Lilith they would do so much damage she couldn't do enough damage to survive as roland I had managed to basically get infinite ammo and just rocket everything to death. Eventually as both the game just got boring for me. I did have fun with it but there was still way too many problems with it. I might buy the next game but the problem is I have no one to play anything with otherwise I would be doing the co-op for Space Marine.

I played as Lilith solo and found the difficulty basically vanished as I powered-up my phasewalk with healing and recharge perks. While the first few boss fights were a major challenge, the only boss fight that killed me after about level 20 was the robo-Knoxx fight in the Claptrap DLC, only because of the kamikaze Claptraps.

Borderlands was a decent game it had far too many flaws to be amazing mainly the amount of boring fetch quests and the lacking story, fetch quests can be great if it there done right unfortunately go kill 10 skags isn't fun after the tenth time. I liked what little story and characters we got to see and the humor was great. I think it really does deserve a sequel if you look at the dlc its really what the game should have been more story and great characters, quests that gave you some insight into the world, and a good variety of badies. The game was okay the dlc was amazing.

As for the sequel from what info gearbox has released they've fixed pretty much every issue I had with the game so I'm definitely keeping a close eye on it.

Wow now we are starting threads with trolling... very nice.
Borderlands was alright for what it was, a party time Fallout, yes they left a bunch of holes to be filled but that is where the sequel comes in.
Now if it actually does this or offers another "almost there" game is yet to be seen.

my problem with borderlands was that it could have been fun except they made it boring for single player

 

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