If Black Isle wrote Mass Effect....

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Duh. Good story, many bugs. It's their modus operandi.

I think the biggest problem is not about Bioware devving Mass Effect, but the fact that EA hijacked the franchise in between installments. Seriously, ME1 had a lot going for it, as it was intended to be a trilogy, and all that EA needed to do was hand them a bit more money for tightening controls, a few more editors to clean up loose plot holes, and a slightly larger qa department for balance issues. Then we would have a proper second act with fully realized hybrid tps/rpg. Where's a good mod community when you need it?

hazabaza1:
Sure.
But if they were the bug testers, fuck that. Worst company ever in terms of making games work.
Looking at you, Neverwinter Nights 2 you piece of shit

*looks at DS3* They've had two games that were truly theirs in terms of engine, and AP was a mess cause it tried to do too many things at once and so ran out of time to actually make sure everything was integrated properly. DS3 on the other hand had very very few bugs. All of which makes me very optimistic for the South Park RPG.

ravenshrike:

hazabaza1:
Sure.
But if they were the bug testers, fuck that. Worst company ever in terms of making games work.
Looking at you, Neverwinter Nights 2 you piece of shit

*looks at DS3* They've had two games that were truly theirs in terms of engine, and AP was a mess cause it tried to do too many things at once and so ran out of time to actually make sure everything was integrated properly. DS3 on the other hand had very very few bugs. All of which makes me very optimistic for the South Park RPG.

I never had a massive issue with Alpha Protocol. But my main issue with DS3 was it's completely broken gameplay if you went solo and terrible PC port.

Lil_Rimmy is right, this is supposed to be about Black Isle developing Mass Effect not every problem I have with New Vegas. To that end...
I have a limited experience with Black Isle and only really know them from New Vegas. My experience says that the beginnings of the game would less than thrill me, but I'd be on board eventually.

SajuukKhar:
I have heard the "limited time" excuse being used for every single game Obsidian has ever game that was buggy or had terrible game mechanics, which is to say all of them.

Kotor 2? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
NWN2? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
Alpha Protocol? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
New Vegas? ditto
Dungeon Siege III? ditto again

I swear its every Obsidian fans ultimate excuse, just say they had too limited of time.

KOTOR2 - Suddenly told to finish the game up and shove it out the door, which is why most of the ending was able to be pieced back together by modders since all the plot elements had been planned out and the script written.

NWN2 - Same deal except earlier in the allotted development time, responsible for the scrubbing of multiple areas, 3 romance arcs, and largely responsible for the rocks fall part of the Diabolus ex Machina ending.

AP - Only partly limited time. Mainly trying to do too many things at once, Sega telling them to do even more, and the project lead never locking things down. However, while mechanics were poorly implemented I never actually ran into bugs as such.

New Vegas - Entirely made in 11 months from being asked to make the game using what everybody knew was a buggy POS engine. Huge, with many new features. Bethesda did all QA testing and never asked them to fix anything instead just shoving the product out the door. Looking at their Metacritic bonus deal I have suspicions as to why.

DS3 - What bugs? That game was pretty fucking polished. Meh hacknslash combat, but polished.

Really, if I worked at Obsidian at this point I would assume the timetable on any games was 6 months shorter than the projected date and work from there.

If Black Isle/Troika/Obsidian/whatever name they use now wrote ME, it would be pretty fucking awesome. These guys are the best in the industry that I have ever seen, they make you think with their stories, create the best morally grey situations, and make awesome characters, way better than what Bioware ever made IMO.

Also they could make it so Shepard would talk like Mike from Alpha Protocol, it would be an automatic GOTY for me.

I'm sure their script would somehow cause a glitch...somehow

ravenshrike:

SajuukKhar:
I have heard the "limited time" excuse being used for every single game Obsidian has ever game that was buggy or had terrible game mechanics, which is to say all of them.

Kotor 2? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
NWN2? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
Alpha Protocol? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
New Vegas? ditto
Dungeon Siege III? ditto again

I swear its every Obsidian fans ultimate excuse, just say they had too limited of time.

KOTOR2 - Suddenly told to finish the game up and shove it out the door, which is why most of the ending was able to be pieced back together by modders since all the plot elements had been planned out and the script written.

NWN2 - Same deal except earlier in the allotted development time, responsible for the scrubbing of multiple areas, 3 romance arcs, and largely responsible for the rocks fall part of the Diabolus ex Machina ending.

AP - Only partly limited time. Mainly trying to do too many things at once, Sega telling them to do even more, and the project lead never locking things down. However, while mechanics were poorly implemented I never actually ran into bugs as such.

New Vegas - Entirely made in 11 months from being asked to make the game using what everybody knew was a buggy POS engine. Huge, with many new features. Bethesda did all QA testing and never asked them to fix anything instead just shoving the product out the door. Looking at their Metacritic bonus deal I have suspicions as to why.

DS3 - What bugs? That game was pretty fucking polished. Meh hacknslash combat, but polished.

Really, if I worked at Obsidian at this point I would assume the timetable on any games was 6 months shorter than the projected date and work from there.

agreed on all of this, it's shitty that as an independent developer they keep getting shafted JUST enough that it causes this stuff :/ honestly i did greatly enjoy AP NV and DS3 and didn't have any problems with any of them

I would love if Black Ilse came back into the publishing circle, but that'd really be for Atari to decide at this point.

Though I would only buy a Black Isle game again if they continued the trend of adorableness in characters like Imoen!

If you look at KOTOR2 and New Vegas, one would assume that the whole game would end after an anti-climactic battle by explaining what happens to all the characters in a rather bored voice-over...

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Just appreciate what we've got instead of wondering about the what ifs

neil1990:
The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Just appreciate what we've got buy New Vegas and pitch in to the Wasteland kickstarter instead of wondering about the what ifs

Fixed :D

The grass isn't always greener on the other side, but Black Isle alum grass is definitely greener than Bioware grass.

I'd play it. If i could get it to run because of all the Bugs.

Wait, you want to tell me it wasn't made by Obsidian? O_o?
I mean, Mass Effect 3 had bugs, epic story and a stupid ending that was clearly hobbled together in the last two weeks because of executive meddling. Sounds like Obsidian to me. :P

JediMB:

SajuukKhar:

Ultratwinkie:
Fallout 1 and 2 were the same way. If you west west from Vault 13, you were met with Super Mutants with miniguns, rocket launchers, rippers, and power fists.

People expected NV to follow Fallout 3 rules. It follows the ORIGINAL rules where areas were cordoned off until you were a higher level.

That would be fine if they gave any sort of warning or hint about it.

As it stands now the game was railroaded, needlessly.

*likes to immediately leave Goodsprings and run along the railroad to New Vegas' implant clinic at lv.1*

Oh, wrong kind of railroading? Well, I also like to play a game of "dodge the deathclaws" at low levels. That's fun too. :D

How the hell did you manage that? Stealth or trying to outrun them?

I'd have Bioware write it...since...you know...everything (Including the setting) was their idea.

Besides, Obsidian, from what I've seen, can't write any better stories.

New Vegas had a retarded plot (HEY, he shot me in the head, lets go after him.) and (HEY, Im Caesars salad, we hate technology, but we want power, so we fight for dam)

KOTOR 2 bored the utter crap out of me past the opening mission.

What I would have liked however is maybe have another company help Bioware, like maybe a few companies, not sure who, I almost want to say the guys who made Bastion but the story telling styles are not at all alike.

Soviet Heavy:
How the hell did you manage that? Stealth or trying to outrun them?

Running like hell and climbing out of their reach whenever possible.

Honestly, though? Too much effort to do it again. Better to just take the low-level route, since avoiding the deathclaws actually takes longer.

If Mass Effect was made by BI then it would have an awesome intro:

"War.War never changes"

Saviordd1:
KOTOR 2 bored the utter crap out of me past the opening mission.

You're dead to me. I don't know who you are, but you're dead to me. :P

JediMB:

SajuukKhar:

Ultratwinkie:
Fallout 1 and 2 were the same way. If you west west from Vault 13, you were met with Super Mutants with miniguns, rocket launchers, rippers, and power fists.

People expected NV to follow Fallout 3 rules. It follows the ORIGINAL rules where areas were cordoned off until you were a higher level.

That would be fine if they gave any sort of warning or hint about it.

As it stands now the game was railroaded, needlessly.

*likes to immediately leave Goodsprings and run along the railroad to New Vegas' implant clinic at lv.1*

Oh, wrong kind of railroading? Well, I also like to play a game of "dodge the deathclaws" at low levels. That's fun too. :D

Hey, I did that too! Or rather, I first went to the south to get the Ratslayer, and then KILLED the deathclaws at level 1 or 2. All it takes is patience, lots of 5.56 ammo, and the liberal usage of the quicksave key. It was fun. :P

SajuukKhar:

Ultratwinkie:
Fallout 1 and 2 were the same way. If you west west from Vault 13, you were met with Super Mutants with miniguns, rocket launchers, rippers, and power fists.

People expected NV to follow Fallout 3 rules. It follows the ORIGINAL rules where areas were cordoned off until you were a higher level.

That would be fine if they gave any sort of warning or hint about it.

image

Saviordd1:

New Vegas had a retarded plot (HEY, he shot me in the head, lets go after him.) and (HEY, Im Caesars salad, we hate technology, but we want power, so we fight for dam)

Yeah, I walk to Ceasar's tent and he starts talking about Hegel. I can't gigglesquee to that!

I was even more annoyed when I found out most of the companion characters were well-adjusted and non-romancable, and that they had character development that hinged on in-game events instead of wading through dialogue trees.

SajuukKhar:

ChupathingyX:
Well, they did begin design with Vegas and then spread out(which is why there is almost nothing where the Fort is).

That may seem like a cop out of an answer but you're probably aware of the very limited time the game was made on. Personally, I wanted to do the main quest so this wasn't a problem but I can see why it was for other people, and even then, maybe it is railroaded if referring simply to the route taken during the first "half", but when it comes to the actual story and rest of the main quest it's hardly railroaded.

I have heard the "limited time" excuse being used for every single game Obsidian has ever game that was buggy or had terrible game mechanics, which is to say all of them.

Kotor 2? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
NWN2? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
Alpha Protocol? LIMITED TIME LIMITED TIME
New Vegas? ditto
Dungeon Siege III? ditto again

I swear its every Obsidian fans ultimate excuse, just say they had too limited of time.

How about because it's true?

Obsidian is one of the last independent AAA developers out there. They aren't owned by a publisher. They get offered work, and they take it as a hired gun. This means they cannot negotiate on scheduling. A publisher will give them a title to work on, tell them when it has to be done, and it has to be done by then. If they're lucky, they may be able to negotiate a few extra months development time, but that's if their lucky. As an independent, Obsidian are in an absolutely horrible position to try and negotiate their development schedule, which is why so many publishers have pushed out their titles early.

Also the MQ is practically over once you get to New Vegas, at that point you pick a side, do 5 get forces missions, and then its the battle of Hoover Dam.

Ok, you can shut up about this now. If you want to rant about how disappointing and fundamentally railroaded New Vegas is, go start a thread about it. Because right now, you're trolling.

OT: If Obsidian/Black Isle wrote Mass Effect, the story would be better by leaps and bounds. The gameplay may not be as polished (though ME1 was pretty rough in that department anyway), but the narrative, themes and characters would all be lightyears ahead of what Bioware gave us.

To give a few examples, ME2 wouldn't have railroaded you (there's that word again) into working for Cerberus, only to railroad you again into fighting them in ME3. Plot developments like that only serve to make the narrative wonky and uneven. Shepard would have probably been the player character for the first game. In the subsequent games, you'd have played other Spectre agents working to uncover Shepard's legacy on the galaxy. The Illusive Man would actually be an old woman who you can recruit into your party , and she'd be one of the best NPCs ever seen in a game. The romances in the game would be far less stilted and exploitative. Miranda and Jack would wear some actual goddamn clothes, rather than being nothing more than fanservice. And the ending to ME3... well, it'd probably still be rushed, but at least it wouldn't contradict everything that came before, and would allow for actual choice.

Kahunaburger:

Saviordd1:

New Vegas had a retarded plot (HEY, he shot me in the head, lets go after him.) and (HEY, Im Caesars salad, we hate technology, but we want power, so we fight for dam)

Yeah, I walk to Ceasar's tent and he starts talking about Hegel. I can't gigglesquee to that!

I was even more annoyed when I found out most of the companion characters were well-adjusted and non-romancable, and that they had character development that hinged on in-game events instead of wading through dialogue trees.

Habanwha...? Blasphemer! Video games should be about gratuitous violence and stupid, one-dimensional characters! It's because of stupid games like this and because of a-holes like you that people out there actually think that video games are "art" and "a valid storytelling medium" and "not just children's toys". I hope you are proud, scumbag! Shame on youuuuu!!!
Now if you excuse me, I will go and play some REAL games, like Modern Warfare, and wash your pretentious hipster bullshit out my system.

*mumble* Blah... characters? Who needs that?! Stupid a-hole... *mumble*
[/sarcasm]

On a more serious note, I don't really understand how people can complain about NV's story. It wasn't some grand, epic plot, but it wasn't its goal on the first place. It was a personal story. And yes, getting shot in the head is one of the things I actually consider a pretty fitting motive for a roaring rampage of revenge you can play out in that game.

If you ask me, NV is the best sandbox RPG out there. Skyrim is great as well, but I still find NV superior in many aspects, one of which is the story. Inf you thinkn about it, there is no real story in Skyrim. Your main character has this great destiny which he has to fulfill, and that's it. After Whiterun, you are technically doing everything you do because you are the dragonborn, and fighting Alduin is your destiny.

In NV, you are not bound by things like that. You are free to explore the world, there are many factions to work for, tons of quest (some of which are quite intriguing and/or funny), interesting followers, and good DLC content. Not to mention, your character's choices can lead to diametrically opposite endings (even if you only learn about them in a text-crawl, but hey, it's still better than ME3). Overall, NV was a good game, and contrary what many people say, it wasn't half that buggy as the counter-hype would make you believe.

JediMB:

Saviordd1:
KOTOR 2 bored the utter crap out of me past the opening mission.

You're dead to me. I don't know who you are, but you're dead to me. :P

I thought what we had was special!

Kahunaburger:

Saviordd1:

New Vegas had a retarded plot (HEY, he shot me in the head, lets go after him.) and (HEY, Im Caesars salad, we hate technology, but we want power, so we fight for dam)

Yeah, I walk to Ceasar's tent and he starts talking about Hegel. I can't gigglesquee to that!

I was even more annoyed when I found out most of the companion characters were well-adjusted and non-romancable, and that they had character development that hinged on in-game events instead of wading through dialogue trees.

Your right well adjusted!

An ex soldier who shot his own wife and is an overall pessimistic dick.
A mentally unstable super mutant who thinks its a grandma.
A drunkard.
A woman played by Felicia Day who has problems adjusting with her own group of people.
and some scientist guy whose part of the enclave or something (Never really did anything with him)

and your most certainly right about how ME and DA characters only depend on dialogue trees!

I mean its not like a certain character becomes much more pessimistic after she watches her home planet burn.

Or a certain warrior changes his view of the world after you help him with a quest.

Or how a certain character comes from a walking version of Microsoft windows into an actual person.

None of that no.

/Enough sarcasm to make Harry Dresden vomit.

Saviordd1:

Kahunaburger:

Saviordd1:

New Vegas had a retarded plot (HEY, he shot me in the head, lets go after him.) and (HEY, Im Caesars salad, we hate technology, but we want power, so we fight for dam)

Yeah, I walk to Ceasar's tent and he starts talking about Hegel. I can't gigglesquee to that!

I was even more annoyed when I found out most of the companion characters were well-adjusted and non-romancable, and that they had character development that hinged on in-game events instead of wading through dialogue trees.

Your right well adjusted!

An ex soldier who shot his own wife and is an overall pessimistic dick.
A mentally unstable super mutant who thinks its a grandma.
A drunkard.
A woman played by Felicia Day who has problems adjusting with her own group of people.
and some scientist guy whose part of the enclave or something (Never really did anything with him)

and your most certainly right about how ME and DA characters only depend on dialogue to

ean its not like a certain character becomes much more pessimistic after she watches her home planet burn.

Or a certain warrior changes his view of the world after you help him with a quest.

Or how a certain character comes from a walking version of Microsoft windows into an actual person.

None of that no.

/Enough sarcasm to make Harry Dresden vomit.

You skipped Arcade Gannon? That guy had the best storyline. And I don't know about you, but I was gigglesqueeing like a motherfucker when I found out New Vegas companions' character development was based on things that you did with them vs. linear progression through a linear main plot.

Kahunaburger:

You skipped Arcade Gannon? That guy had the best storyline. And I don't know about you, but I was gigglesqueeing like a motherfucker when I found out New Vegas companions' character development was based on things that you did with them vs. linear progression through a linear main plot.

He was a prick "I speak Latin, I all moody and wont talk about my past" I know someone like that in my real life, they annoy the shit out of me, I didn't want a digital version following me.

Now your comparing apples to oranges honestly. Mass Effect (progression wise) isn't New Vegas.

GabeZhul:

Habanwha...? Blasphemer! Video games should be about gratuitous violence and stupid, one-dimensional characters! It's because of stupid games like this and because of a-holes like you that people out there actually think that video games are "art" and "a valid storytelling medium" and "not just children's toys". I hope you are proud, scumbag! Shame on youuuuu!!!
Now if you excuse me, I will go and play some REAL games, like Modern Warfare, and wash your pretentious hipster bullshit out my system.

*mumble* Blah... characters? Who needs that?! Stupid a-hole... *mumble*
[/sarcasm]

On a more serious note, I don't really understand how people can complain about NV's story. It wasn't some grand, epic plot, but it wasn't its goal on the first place. It was a personal story. And yes, getting shot in the head is one of the things I actually consider a pretty fitting motive for a roaring rampage of revenge you can play out in that game.

If you ask me, NV is the best sandbox RPG out there. Skyrim is great as well, but I still find NV superior in many aspects, one of which is the story. Inf you thinkn about it, there is no real story in Skyrim. Your main character has this great destiny which he has to fulfill, and that's it. After Whiterun, you are technically doing everything you do because you are the dragonborn, and fighting Alduin is your destiny.

In NV, you are not bound by things like that. You are free to explore the world, there are many factions to work for, tons of quest (some of which are quite intriguing and/or funny), interesting followers, and good DLC content. Not to mention, your character's choices can lead to diametrically opposite endings (even if you only learn about them in a text-crawl, but hey, it's still better than ME3). Overall, NV was a good game, and contrary what many people say, it wasn't half that buggy as the counter-hype would make you believe.

If there's one thing Obsidian really, really excel at with interactive storytelling, it's in allowing you to completely create and role-play your own character while at the same time exploring personal, introspective ideas through the narrative.

KOTOR 2 allows you to be male, female, Jedi or Sith, but it also still examines certain traumatic events that happened in your past, and allows you to choose how your character reacted to them. The Exile went to war, and basically ended up with shellshock. Where you go with that is entirely up to you to decide, and Obsidian make it work really well.

Planescape (not technically Obsidian, but loads of them worked on it) is basically about finding out what sort of person your character was in a previous life. That the game allows you to explore this while also allowing you a stupid amount of freedom to roleplay is a testament to the strength of their writing.

Writing a good story that also allows the player to make choices is hard. Writing a good story that not only allows the player to build their character from scratch, but do some serious soul searching and character introspection is really really hard. While New Vegas doesn't have the same level of existential angst as other Obsidian titles, it still allows to get inside your character's head while still making your own choices and decisions, and that's a very rare skill indeed.

LOL. Bethtards aren't happy unless you can go anywhere and beat the game at level 1.

Ultratwinkie:
Scenario: Looking back I see all the plot holes in Mass Effect 1 and 2. I began to wonder what it would be like if another team wrote Mass Effect.

So I ask you, if all the guys from Black Isle (now Obsidian) came in and written the story (not gameplay), would you play it? It has the basic premise of ancient reapers invading, but everything else is up to the writers.

Indeed I would play it, Obsidian has (and Black Isle had) one of the best story / zones / characters writers in the whole industry (Mask of the Betrayer is an undeniable proof). They are really, really great when it comes to making stories, adventures and choices.

Ultratwinkie:

In your opinion, would Black Isle pen a better or worse story? Who else would you allow to make Mass Effect?

Tough question :). Would they pen a better Mass Effect 1 story? Probably not, but the point is ME1 story is HEAVILY based on Anachronox and since ME2 it all seems less appealing from story-point-of-view. Without EA, Bioware would probably manage to make the ME3 ending "less painful", since it has been stated that there were cuts.

Ultratwinkie:

Personally, I would choose Valve to write it if it wasn't the guys from Black isle.

Who would you choose? And what would be different?

I would pick Black Isle too. Then Obsidian. Valve is fantastic, but they have been more focused around less characters with deeper development and keeping the track on all people in ME3 would be something they aren't used to. And Shepard would probably be mute :D.

So yeah, Obisidian all the way, they are unique when it comes down to stories.

j-e-f-f-e-r-s:

GabeZhul:

Habanwha...? Blasphemer! Video games should be about gratuitous violence and stupid, one-dimensional characters! It's because of stupid games like this and because of a-holes like you that people out there actually think that video games are "art" and "a valid storytelling medium" and "not just children's toys". I hope you are proud, scumbag! Shame on youuuuu!!!
Now if you excuse me, I will go and play some REAL games, like Modern Warfare, and wash your pretentious hipster bullshit out my system.

*mumble* Blah... characters? Who needs that?! Stupid a-hole... *mumble*
[/sarcasm]

On a more serious note, I don't really understand how people can complain about NV's story. It wasn't some grand, epic plot, but it wasn't its goal on the first place. It was a personal story. And yes, getting shot in the head is one of the things I actually consider a pretty fitting motive for a roaring rampage of revenge you can play out in that game.

If you ask me, NV is the best sandbox RPG out there. Skyrim is great as well, but I still find NV superior in many aspects, one of which is the story. Inf you thinkn about it, there is no real story in Skyrim. Your main character has this great destiny which he has to fulfill, and that's it. After Whiterun, you are technically doing everything you do because you are the dragonborn, and fighting Alduin is your destiny.

In NV, you are not bound by things like that. You are free to explore the world, there are many factions to work for, tons of quest (some of which are quite intriguing and/or funny), interesting followers, and good DLC content. Not to mention, your character's choices can lead to diametrically opposite endings (even if you only learn about them in a text-crawl, but hey, it's still better than ME3). Overall, NV was a good game, and contrary what many people say, it wasn't half that buggy as the counter-hype would make you believe.

If there's one thing Obsidian really, really excel at with interactive storytelling, it's in allowing you to completely create and role-play your own character while at the same time exploring personal, introspective ideas through the narrative.

KOTOR 2 allows you to be male, female, Jedi or Sith, but it also still examines certain traumatic events that happened in your past, and allows you to choose how your character reacted to them. The Exile went to war, and basically ended up with shellshock. Where you go with that is entirely up to you to decide, and Obsidian make it work really well.

Planescape (not technically Obsidian, but loads of them worked on it) is basically about finding out what sort of person your character was in a previous life. That the game allows you to explore this while also allowing you a stupid amount of freedom to roleplay is a testament to the strength of their writing.

Writing a good story that also allows the player to make choices is hard. Writing a good story that not only allows the player to build their character from scratch, but do some serious soul searching and character introspection is really really hard. While New Vegas doesn't have the same level of existential angst as other Obsidian titles, it still allows to get inside your character's head while still making your own choices and decisions, and that's a very rare skill indeed.

If Black Isle did Mass Effect, wed've actually got interesting gameplay and story depending on the background and profession you chose for Shepard as opposed to a few throwaway lines in each game.

ChupathingyX:
*shivers*

Now there's a discussion I'd rather not get involed in again.

Otherwise, I'd have to write up another 8,000 word report, which I can't be bothered doing right now since I deleted the previous one.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout:_New_Vegas_quests

Cesar has 4
NCR has 5
Yes Mes has 6
House has the most with 9, but his quests are just broken up versions of the other questlines, he turns sneezing into a quest if you give him the chance.

Anthraxus:
LOL. Bethtards aren't happy unless you can go anywhere and beat the game at level 1.

Except no one has been promoting that at all.

Try harder next time kid.

SirBryghtside:
[4I think the horde of Deathclaws was supposed to be the warning. It's the kind of game where you're supposed to make mistakes and die.

Did you not read the entire conversation beforehand were I specifically mentioned I thought the way the handled the deathclaws was good?

You didn't? Really? would have never guess based on your response. /sarcasm.

SajuukKhar:

Ultratwinkie:
Fallout 1 and 2 were the same way. If you west west from Vault 13, you were met with Super Mutants with miniguns, rocket launchers, rippers, and power fists.

People expected NV to follow Fallout 3 rules. It follows the ORIGINAL rules where areas were cordoned off until you were a higher level.

That would be fine if they gave any sort of warning or hint about it.

As it stands now the game was railroaded, needlessly.

Really? I just ran like a little bitch straight up to New Vegas. Nearly died, of course, but nothing stops you from going north if you're willing to put effort into it (not that they don't try their darnedest)

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